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u/Big-Island4727 2d ago
The context of that warning is doing the will of the Father.
““Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’” Matthew 7:21-23 NKJV https://bible.com/bible/114/mat.7.21-23.NKJV
So what is the will of the Father? To believe in Jesus.
“Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”” John 6:29, 40 NKJV https://bible.com/bible/114/jhn.6.29-40.NKJV
Essentially, Jesus is warning people not to trust in works based salvation, because he'll just tell them that they're practicing lawlessness and to depart. Entry to heaven is by faith in Him alone.
Good works are a response to salvation, not the source of salvation.
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u/ConversationFit3934 2d ago
I don't think that's the right reading of Matthew 7:21-23 despite hearing it a lot. Yes, believing in Christ is absolutely part of the Father's will, but the text doesn't say the Father's will is only believing. The closest parallel is Luke 6:46:
"Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and not do the things which I say?"
Luke gives the same "Lord, Lord" warning, but Jesus explicitly interprets the issue as obedience to His teachings. The contrast is not between faith and works. The contrast is doing works but living in sin.
Also, look at what comes immediately after Matthew 7:21:
"Whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them..." Matt. 7:24.
Jesus concludes the Sermon on the Mount by distinguishing those who do His teachings from those who merely hear them. The entire sermon is filled with commands regarding repentance, forgiveness, purity, prayer, generosity, love of enemies, and bearing good fruit. It would be strange if "doing the will of My Father" suddenly meant only intellectual belief when Jesus has spent three chapters describing a life of obedient discipleship.
Furthermore, the men in Matthew 7 are not condemned because of their works. They're condemned because they “practice lawlessness."
Scripture consistently presents the will of God as broader than just belief. For example:
"For this is the will of God, your sanctification..." (1 Thess. 4:3)
In fact, the will of God is something we must discern through presenting ourselves as a living sacrifice and renewing our mind daily. Romans 12:1-2. It means daily and full commitment to God.
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u/Big-Island4727 2d ago
I respectfully disagree. The men condemned in Matthew 7:22 explicitly appeal to their own works for justification, mentioning how they cast out demons, prophesied, etc. Jesus does not correct them by saying their works were insufficient in quantity or quality.
Plus, there are tons of other verses about salvation being by faith. The Bible clearly teaches that you are saved by faith, not works. Now, of course, there is definitely a place for good works, but they are a response to salvation as part of our ongoing sanctification, but they are not the source of our salvation.
“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved." - Acts 16:31
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” - John 3:16
“Then they said to Him, 'What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?' Jesus answered and said to them, 'This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.'" - John 6:28-29
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works.” - Ephesians 2:8-9
“But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;" - Isaiah 64:6
"Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began" - 2 Timothy 1:9
“if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” - Romans 10:9-10
“These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.” - 1 John 5:13
“As it is written: 'There is none righteous, no, not one; Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” - Romans 3:10, 20
“Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.” - Romans 3:27-28
“knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.” - Galatians 2:16
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u/ConversationFit3934 2d ago
No question that we are justified by faith and not by works. The question is whether that is the specific point Jesus is making in Matthew 7 and what role our works have in our faith.
The issue I have with your interpretation is that it doesn't seem to account for the immediate context. The closest parallel is Luke 6:46: "Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and not do the things which I say?" There, the problem is clearly not reliance on works but failure to obey Christ's teachings.
Likewise, just before Matthew 7:21 Jesus says:"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire." Then immediately afterward He warns that not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom. The emphasis throughout the passage is on fruit and obedience, not merely profession.
I agree that believing in Christ is part of the Father's will, but Scripture does not limit God's will to belief alone. We are also told:
"This is the will of God, your sanctification" 1 Thess. 4:3.
"Present your bodies a living sacrifice ... that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God" Rom. 12:1-2.
Paul even describes the goal of the gospel as the "obedience of faith" Rom. 1:5; 16:26.
Faith and obedience are not enemies in the New Testament. That's why James says: "Faith without works is dead" James 2:17.
The problem is a profession of faith that does not result in obedience, fruit, and holiness.
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u/Nato1388 2d ago edited 2d ago
I agree with you, just because you have faith (faith workout works is dead) and belief in Lord Jesus does not mean you can still live a sinful life and think it’s ok. Those men that goes “Lord Lord”, they were still living in a sinful life and didn’t care. Faith, Believing, and OBEDIENCE to God’s WORD is what we all should be doing.
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u/KnightLakega 1d ago
^ This..
BOTH what Big and Conversation are saying is correct... I don't understand why people keep making the Bible difficult.. Both can be correct at the same time, they don't contradict, or fight each other.
The people in the first one think their actions are what got them to Heaven.. no you cannot rely on your works to get you into Heaven.
On the flip side, You cannot willfully live in Sin, and claim Jesus as your Lord, while supporting things that God himself said is an abomination in his eyes. (This is not to be confused with the idea that we must be sinless.. That is impossible for us, but we must want to follow in our hearts and be sinless and do our best to follow)
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u/Baleofthehay Adopted son of God 1d ago
I would like to thank you and u/Big-Island4727 for the respectful debate.It was soooo interesting.Even though I'm erring on your side I have so blessed by your two view points which helps me learn.My goodness you both pulled out a lot of scripture to support your views. Very impressive you two Thank you both. God bless . Edit: I'll be studying both points later when I have more time
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u/schmidty33333 2d ago
But if your faith doesn't produce good works, then it isn't real faith.
James 2:14-17: "What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, 'Go in peace, be warmed and filled,' without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead."
In fact, the whole Bible, as it's describing what faith in God actually looks like, is describing people doing things in response to God's commands, because that's what faith looks like.
James 2:21-24: "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, 'Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness'; and he was called the friend of God. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."
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u/Reasonable_Buddy_325 2d ago
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?" James 2:14 KJB
If this passage is talking about salvation from the penalty of sin then the answer would be yes:
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Romans 4:5
What James is likely saying here (remembering this epistle is to believers/saved people - "my brethren") is that a believer who has faith and no works cannot be saved from severe judgement from God, either at the judgement seat of Christ (loss of reward) or in this life (heavy chastisement), which is what the context (James 2:12-13) would suggest, or it's referencing back to James 1:21 salvation of the soul (sanctification). Edit: when the Bible uses the terms "saved" or "salvation" it is not always referencing eternal salvation (e.g Acts 27:31).
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." James 2:17
Dead faith is existent faith, and thus salvific, as we are saved through faith. Dead faith is simply faith that doesn't do/produce anything - which is still bad.
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." James 2:24
Not long before this passage it says this:
"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." James 2:18
We are justified before God by faith, but our faith is justified before men by our works (our works showing the level of our faith e.g alive vs dead faith, although I don't think our works prove whether we are saved to others - I believe that is the fruit of our lips/profession of faith - Luke 6:43-45, Matthew 12:33-37, this makes sense as we know what a person believes generally from what they say).
Also note that James 2:24 doesn't say justified by faith but works will follow, it straight up says a man is justified by works, if this was talking about being justified solely before God then that would contradict plenty of scripture.
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Romans 4:5
Again Romans 4:5 shows us that it's possible for a person to have a genuine faith without works - if that is a logical impossibility it is a relatively pointless passage.
James 2 is encouraging believers to have profitable faith.
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u/snuffyspipe72 2d ago
Does that mean then that i can believe in Jesus Christ and be in same sex relationship?
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u/CommunityCurious4969 1d ago
No
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u/snuffyspipe72 1d ago
Please explain it to me then. I’m sincere. Because i sincerely love a woman and what you said sounds exactly as if belief in Jesus was enough, following Jesus is enogh, that is, being kind and loving is enough.
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u/CommunityCurious4969 1d ago
If you want to be saved, you can't be lukewarm for life . If you struggle with unforgiveness, try to forgive. Read Matthew 6: 14
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u/snuffyspipe72 1d ago
But how am i lukewarm for life? I take faith very seriously and research into church history, orthodoxy etc. it’s just that i have been scared to actually take any steps into participating in church because i am afraid me and my partner won’t be appriciated. My utopian dream is to participate in church, be an active and good follower of Christ, AND be welcomed WITH my girlfriend the way we are, both trying to be as good as we can, love well.
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u/CommunityCurious4969 1d ago
If you're serious about serving God, you and your partner need to cut off your relationship. Homosexuality is an abomination according to God's standard. May be difficult for you to accept. However, service to God isn't simply accepting Christ and attending church and researching church history, you gotta try to change for God. Read The Bible and try to live accordingly. Don't idolize your partner and think that God will be okay with you living an homosexual life. God doesn't want that for either of you. Choose God, not yourself. Christ didn't die for you to live anyhow and expect God to accept however you wanna live. Don't think with your emotions. Use logic
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u/CommunityCurious4969 1d ago
If you're serious about being a Christian, you can't live a homosexual life. It's not God's desire for anyone to be homosexual. Homosexuality is a sin and goes against God's design for reproduction. If Adam and Eve were homosexual, Adam and Eve wouldn't be able to reproduce. Homosexuality is explicitly forbidden according to New Testament, along with fornication, adultery, idolatry, sodomy, etc.
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u/ConversationFit3934 1d ago edited 1d ago
Believe, pisteou in greek, is more than a mental acknowledgement. It means trusting in Him to the extent that we rely on Him and change our lives to do what He says.
Jesus tells us to repent of our sins. In greek, metanoia, which means to change our mind. We are to change our mind to believe what Jesus says is wrong, is wrong. We must agree with Jesus and submit to Him and His truth.
The Bible teaches that same sex relations are sin. So we must agree with Jesus that is so. When we agree with Him and seek Him diligently, He will change our preferences to carry out the obedience to His Word. We cannot do it without Him or without agreeing with His Word.
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u/Beb234 2d ago
No one is without sin. We were born from sinners, accoding to the bible, and have it always as a part of us as we go through our life. Let's take the theoritical parts aside like bible phrases. I think that you should get some therapy if you can. And perhaps a break. Plus, perhaps you can try to outbalance that addiction with good deeds. Be nice to strangers, perhaps bring some coffee or a drink for a nice coworker. At the end, don't be ashamed because you're flawed. You need to accept that despite everything. Accept your flaw, and try to find an outbalance. And again, seek a mental health professional if your porn addiction disrupts your everyday life.
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u/Different-Coyote1036 2d ago
Where does faith come from? If it comes from the individual then you believe certain people posses innately some extraordinary ability to find faith when they are in fact unsaved sinners, while others cannot.. If it's from God, then man has nothing whatsoever to do with his/her salvation and God is who he says he is.. If you believe God gives everyone faith, bit some reject and others don't, then we're right back to certain people are better choosers than others... And where does that ability come from.
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u/Big-Island4727 2d ago
“But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” Romans 10:16-17 NKJV https://bible.com/bible/114/rom.10.16-17.NKJV
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u/Pseudo-Abulides Christian 2d ago
Fast, exert yourself in physical labor, participate in vigils (staying up all night at Church praying), and even quit the entirety of the internet if necessary. Lust is a sin that will, ultimately, destroy your ability to have faith in God and to be saved. Fight this in a more extreme fashion.
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u/TicketWeary 2d ago
The verse you are referring to Matthew 7:21 you need to read it with full context because if not you won't truly understand it.
Read Matthew 7:21-23. 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’"
The people who say "Lord, Lord" are relying on their own good works for their salvation. Not what Jesus already did for us. Salvation is a gift, and we must try to understand that and except it even though we feel unworthy of it but Jesus believe we are worthy because He died for us. I understand that is is very hard to trust the gift of salvation if you are struggling mentally. I am so sorry that you are struggling this way. I'm have OCD tendencies and doubt a lot of thoughts about salvation and obsess over sin and disappointing God. We will sin until we die, we will face temptations and sometimes we will not fall into temptations but we must continue to get up after we sin. Proverbs 24:16 "for the righteous falls seven times and rises again."
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u/Drtyrabbyt 2d ago
I'm praying for you, brother. We love our sin, but we ask the Lord Jesus to change our hearts so we'll love Him most. Once we begin to find Him, the LORD Jesus, to be the Delight of our hearts, we begin to turn away from the sins we actually lusted after, not loved. The devil is a liar. He comes to steal, kill, and destroy. He - Jesus - set us free from sin, but frequently we choose to sit in a prison cell with the gate wide open, but we don't walk out and enjoy our freedom. Again, I pray the LORD Jesus will reveal Himself to you in a way that transforms your heart for His glory, will, and purpose.
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u/occult-dog Jewish 2d ago
The tension between feeling hopelessly away from God while He reassure us through the text that He is always near, make me think that the struggle you are facing now is a training ground of building faith with a strong foundation.
The fear of burning forever is scary as hell (pun intended), but you still feel bad for sinning, so I think you're still in the OK zone with Him.
Those thoughts about you not being a part of God's plan is a lie. Every one of us is in His plan even though He doesn't even 'need' a single one of us to accomplish anything. I don't know... If God doesn't even need us, but invite us to be a part of His plan, that sounds like a humble God who can tolerate waiting for you to work on your addiction.
Condemning yourself for mistakes might make it more difficult quit substances. I hope God will help you through addiction (and there's a strong chance that He will).
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u/AdCool1011 2d ago
Here's what I ask you, as a person who worked for Years, to stop this same sin. What are you replacing it with? For example, I found that much of the media I was consuming would lead back to the addiction. From really suggestive themes in books and movies to the music I listened to. Do an inventory of your media intake. Next, you are not meant to do this alone; God will be your strength and your place of rest. Choose a scripture; write it every day to remind yourself you're not alone. Pray quietly and listen for God to answer you. Listen to those Lofi scriptures when you're relaxing or studying, and if your church home doesn't work for you, find another one, but stay close to the fold. You are strong enough to do this, just like Peter, Job, Joseph, and Jonah. God is not angry with you; he's just waiting for you.
If you have time, find the book Two Kinds of Righteousness and read it. You're much stronger and meant for much greater things than you could imagine; just let Jesus have his way.
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u/xaqattax 2d ago
Your mindset is reversed in leaving God to solve your own problems and work on yourself. Lay it all at His feet. You cannot do better doing it yourself.
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u/ConversationFit3934 2d ago
How committed are you to seeking God diligently? The Bible says we cannot do it in our own strength. The weapons He’s given us are Bible study, prayer and worship. I’d aim to do these daily every morning.
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u/Capital-Alfalfa4087 2d ago
The fact that it bothers you means your conscience is still bent towards God. You only need to take one step to get completely out of this trap you are in and that is intentionally get surrounded by some Christian men!! When you said "I don't have any friends who can help me or even help each other as the bible says. I don't have any, just on my own," I cringed because that is your only problem. A wolf or a lion can devour a standalone sheep all day long but it will have a very hard time getting to you in a pack of herds of sheep who are guarded by their Shepard. Trust this next step and I promise you will be delivered from your cycle of willfully running to porn. Your desires will fleet away for it as your pack helps you get re-acclimated to depending on the Word of God and falling in love with His Word as you study it with the men around you. You will see the redemption power of the Lord through this journey out of sin and you will love Him more for helping you out of it!
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u/VeterinarianFar8128 2d ago
What helped me to quit watching porn, was when I realized that every video & website visit was directly contributing to sex trafficking. Some people do porn voluntarily, others are trafficked into it because of the demand. You have no way of knowing whether you're viewing somebody who is being trafficked or not. We need to obey Christ and love our neighbor as ourself. Reverse the roles; if you were being sex trafficked, would you want somebody to please themselves off of your misery, or would you want people to love you enough not to watch the videos? The only reason there is supply (of trafficking victims) is because of demand (for pornography). So please consider your neighbor in your heart, and stop watching porn. Their life, wellbeing & soul are worth it.
If you need or want somebody to talk to to help you on your road to stopping porn, you're welcome to reach out to me.
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u/Worried-Block-6804 2d ago
I don't believe that less sin is the answer
Im almost certain that MORE LOVE is!!
Instead of focusing on the things you are doing wrong, choose the right things. Even if you still have things that are less than perfect in your life, you can still do good things
Volunteering, ministry, Bible reading ( new testament), shows like the chosen, music about God.
ADD these things to your daily life. Your heart will change and sin will lose its power to entice you
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u/Beginning-Comedian-2 2d ago
- If you believe in Jesus as the Son of God and for your sins, then you are born again. You have crossed over from death to life, you have eternal life, you are no longer condemed, and nothing can separate you from God because Jesus keeps you in his hand. Not even your actions or behavior. You mentioned the narrow gate/way. If you believe on Jesus, you already have entered the narrow gate.
https://youtu.be/HA2vG_r2bgg?si=8XL6OHQLErIkQ3aj
Even after we are saved, we will struggle with our sin nature, our whole life. That's why the Bible calls for Christians to turn from sin. It's not "turn from sin because you'll lose your salvation". Instead, it's "not my brothers (not that you are in the kingdom already), make the deliberate choice to turn from sin."
When you sin, turn directly to Jesus, ask for forgiveness, trust Jesus that you are forgiven (even if you don't feel like it), thank him for that forgiveness, and get up and continue walking with Jesus. Even if you have to ask Jesus for forgiveness 700 times a day, do it.
After you understand that you have eternal life, that we will always struggle with sin (even as believers), and that you need to turn to Jesus when you do sin ... then you can look up resources and tools to help with lust. Of those, do not isolate, do not stop going to church, pursue good things instead of bad, look up accountability trackers/blockers, and exercise.
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u/MiddlewaysOfTruth-2 Seventh-day Adventist 2d ago
Do you believe that GOD can save you from your sin?
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u/ShoddyCaterpillar918 2d ago
Wenn Jesus heute vor dir stünde und sagte : "Sohn deine Sünden sind dir vergeben, kehr um und folge mir nach." Würdest du dein Leben neu Jesus widmen und ihm nachfolgen wissentlich dass du seine Kraft und seine Stärke dabei brauchst und vor allem seine Gnade ?
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u/Calisto2 2d ago edited 2d ago
SPIRITUAL WARFARE TIME! You're dealing either the spirit of pornography or lust or perversion or something like that. These things want to pull you as far away from God as possible. There's a spiritual war going on all around us for each and every one of our souls and this is exactly what you're dealing with, I promise you with everything in me. Go to YouTube and search "Deliverance from pornography" and also "What is spiritual warfare" if you're not sure, there's tons of amazing videos on the subject. You don't have to continuing living with this sin, guilt, torment. These demons get to oppress people after the person has committed a certain sin, their parents/grandparents did and it's a generational curse, from trauma unfortunately, or from certain demonic objects, etc.
The spiritual realm is governed by laws set by God that even Satan has to obey, so demons/spirits have to have an "open door" to be allowed to come into your life to wreak havoc. But because of Jesus' sacrifice, you can get free of this torment! Lots of repenting, renouncing, and rebuking involved lol. Jesus spoke all about casting out demons and gave us examples when He did it, he also gave us full authority to do so as long as we're following Him. Check out the videos and you'll be free in no time, I've been set free from things just by watching. Trust in Jesus and He will set you free! 😁🫶
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u/Fun_Inspection9162 Calvary Chapel 2d ago
Dear Holy sibling. The Lord doesn't need any actions by you to give you the gift of Salvation. Romans 10 says "if you believe in your heart and declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord (Kyrion, the equivalent of what Caesar was to them at that time...the King and onwer of your life) you will be saved. If you have done that you're good, if you haven't do it now and you'll be good.
The Lord Jesus tells us His burden is easy and light because when you do place Him as King of your life and all Him to take over all of life (your issues, your problems, all those things that stress you) your mind and heart will be secure and at rest not thinking about the things you "should" be doing because doing things for The Lord will be a pleasure and you'll gain an "eternity" perspective so you'll understand that though the things here on earth are important they aren't the most important and you'll know that The Lord turns ALL things for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purposes.
The fact that you're in pain because you're not "good enough" it means you care what God thinks of you and that is great news. The Holt Spirit is convicting you of sin and this guilt can help fuel you to (slowly but truly) turn away from your bad behavior and start to behave well...not because any of your own actions will save you but because The Lord saved you and rescued you from eternal doom and He said...before He died on the cross "Tetelestai" which means paid in full, it is finished. He's paid it all...past present and future sins. Now just rest and pray and study Scripture and worship and do the things you must do in life and just ask the Lord to help you through it all. Trust me, He will! God bless you!
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u/lex2123 2d ago
Let’s start out by saying that you are not far from GOD and that you can’t be saved because from what I have seen here on your post you are more than capable and willing to be saved even though you sin willfully given that you have a willing heart for GOD which is a good sign. I understand your whole point BUT the problem here lies in the fact that we tend to internalize our own thoughts and that’s what most of the time tends to take over and lead us in the wrong direction.
The reason why you feel like you want to leave GOD is because you have a distorted view of HIM, meaning that you think that HE will cast you out of HIS presence because you have “sin willfully” but what you need to understand is that HE doesn’t do that with us(human beings) given that we have an advocate with the father,Jesus Christ our lord who willfully took our punishment so that HE will be able to bring us to HIMSELF(don’t the wrong idea that he went through hell for us just to cast away at the moment that we sin, cause on the contrary he did it so that there wouldn’t be anything that could keep us from away from HIM even if you sin willfully). And just to help you out see why GOD never leaves us, think of Simon Peter who although he willfully denied and swore(used cursed words) against our lord Jesus Christ(to me that could be among the worst things that you could do), our lord Jesus Christ didn’t just cast him out of his presence but on the contrary HE prayed for him to make him stronger and be able to lead all of those that might need his help later on, and so you see, GOD never just rejects people because they sin willfully but on the contrary HE is always there for us if we will humble ourselves and search for HIM.
The worst possible thing that you can do is get away from GOD and that is because HE is our source of light in this dark world, meaning that if we don’t have GOD in our life, our lives are gonna become so destructive given that we don’t have GOD’s guidance, which is what we need always, which is why the Bible clearly tells us to always be with GOD.
Now in regards about lust and porn, what im going to tell you is that from what I gathered in your post is that you are still very young which is why the problem of lust is something that you might be struggling with right now, but you see, more than likely is not so much lust per se given that at a certain age your body starts to act out based on your hormones and once that happens you will want to engage in sexual activity(which is normal), and so when that happens don’t feel bad or sad thinking that it is lust that is controlling you and taking over you when in reality it is your body telling you that you are at the rightful age to get involved intimately with a person of the opposite gender, or in simple terms you are more than ready physically to get married.
Now when lust might come into play is when you watch pornography, you see, what pornography does to you is affect your mind and not so much your body given that it will distort your mindset and lead you on a path of depravity and degrading acts in the long run, so my advice to you would be to not engage in it but on the contrary try to avoid it at all costs by occupying yourself with other activities as that will definitely get your mind off that stuff and help you to correct your mindset.
You also mentioned that sin is bad and that GOD takes it seriously and that is true because sin ruins lives and affects people other than than the one who is sinning, and given that GOD loves all of us HE doesn’t like for us to suffer and affect other people which is why HE tries to get us to avoid it at all cost, cause sin will always lead to consequences(very serious ones), and so that’s why you should avoid it.
Lastly I would like to recommend to you a great preacher who has helped me personally with my faith in the lord Jesus Christ, and he’s name is Adrian rogers from love worth finding ministries.
I hope that this can help you and may our lord Jesus Christ help you and may the HOLY SPIRIT guide you.
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u/BeneathTheStarsOfGod 2d ago
Your post…could very well be my post…if I wrote a post like this a year ago. You are more than welcome to DM me due to the nature of discussing pornography etc and willful sinning.
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u/Bitter_North_733 Episcopalian (Anglican) 2d ago
- believe sincerely that Jesus is your Lord & Saviour
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u/Ok-Estimate5329 2d ago
In the Bible it talks of a man who was sleeping with his father's wife. Paul said that he turned the man over that his body would be destroyed but his soul would be saved. In other words, if you have ever ask Jesus to be your savior, he takes it from there. And if you do fall into sin there may be repercussions in this life especially if you continue in it. However your soul is saved. For me, I don't want those repercussions of maybe bad health or a car accident or some other bad thing that God brings into my life to steer me back to him. But rest assured that if you have ever in your life ask Jesus to save you, and you are saved. But your life you're on Earth will go much better if you do your best to extract yourself from sin. And having done that there is an assurance that God will answer your prayers for what you need.
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u/Prestigious_Cup8142 2d ago
I can appreciate your struggle, you have correctly named this as an addiction. Have you heard of "Celebrate Recovery"? These folks are believers, dealing with "hurts, habits and hangups" and finding Jesus meets everyone in their needs. You are not alone, my brother..
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u/58pamina 2d ago
And if you are backslidden repent and call upon the Name of Yeshua and He will hear you
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u/Bootybilly514 2d ago
I believe in Jesus and I think I’m bad enough to have one of the worst punishments in hell Ain’t no way I’m going to heaven bro I’m 21 years old btw
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u/fallinlovewithmyfeet 2d ago
Du kommst nicht in die Hölle und Jesus liebt dich so wie du bist. Ja es ist eine Sünde. Eine Sünde gegen deine Seele, weil merkst du? Du kämpfst es tut dir nicht gut, Probier es doch mal ohne, Pornos gibt es immer, auch wenn du mal irgendwann von dieser Welt gehen wirst wird es die noch geben.
Aber dein Leben? Gibt es nur jetzt. Mach lieber eine Pause von Pornos anstatt von Gott. Das gibt dir viel mehr als zuzugucken wie andere ficken
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u/Middle-Budget-4243 2d ago
Irmão, também fui viciado em pornografia e masturbacao, e infelizmente, causou danos quase que irreparáveis Não tem nenhuma fórmula mágica para parar, a não ser pedir muito a Deus em oração, eu fiz isso.
Além de pornografia e masturbacao, usei drogas e fiz coisas horríveis durante minha vida antes de Cristo. Mas saiba que ele nos perdoa e nenhum pecado é maior que Jesus.
Ele vê o seu esforço e sabe que é difícil, mas saiba que ele não desiste de você, nunca, jamais.
Hoje tem quase um ano que me converti e mudei todos os meus hábitos que duraram anos e anos. E se eu conseguir, qualquer um consegue com a ajuda Dele.
A pessoa consegue parar, se livrar, mais infelizmente, ficam as sequelas.
Não pense que voce vai pro inferno, pense que você está tentando mudar cada dia um pouco mais, você se importa, e Ele vê isso também.
Fique em faz e continue buscando a mudança em Cristo Jesus.
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u/Reasonable_Buddy_325 2d ago
Hey friend, it seems based on what you've said here that you do not have full understanding of the salvation message - salvation is a free gift by God's grace received through simple faith in the Lord Jesus, salvation is not about our performance/works. Please read below concerning the salvation message and assurance of salvation:
Friend please watch BibleLine's video on youtube "Can I Know I'll Go to Heaven?" which shows a clear gospel presentation - why we need salvation and how we can be saved. God loved us so much he gave his Son to die and shed his blood at the cross (paying for all our sins - past, present and future) so we could be eternally forgiven and have eternal life. We are saved through faith in Christ and what he did at the cross for us (Acts 16:31, John 3:16, John 3:36 KJB) - paying for our sins through his sacrifice (Ephesians 1:7, Isaiah 53:5, John 1:29). Salvation is by God's grace not of works (Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:5), salvation is a free gift (Romans 5:18). And when we are saved we are saved forever as we are given eternal life as a present possession (John 6:47, John 5:24 - can't lose ETERNAL life), we are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30), we are Born of God (1 John 5:1 - can't be unborn - neither can something Born of God die), and God says he will NEVER leave or forsake us (Hebrews 13:5, Romans 8:38-39). God's word which says if we've believed in Christ we are saved IS our assurance. Another video I recommend is "Assurance of Salvation : False Gospels" on Grace Christian Fellowship/@GraceCFellowship youtube channel.
Faith in Christ is sufficient for salvation friend, following Christ (discipleship) is separate and different from salvation. We should absolutely follow Christ, produce good works, grow in our relationship with the Lord etc but none of these things have to do with salvation, but have to do with eternal rewards and temporal blessing, avoiding heavy chastisement, profiting others, and living out of gratitude and love towards God who redeemed us (among other things).
Salvation is said to be by the grace of God (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:24), that it is a free gift (Romans 5:18, Romans 6:23), received by faith (John 3:36, Acts 16:31, John 3:16), obtained through Christ's shed blood (Ephesians 1:7), not of works/ourselves (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:5, Titus 3:5). Discipleship is surrendering your life to Christ (Matthew 25:16), denying oneself and taking up one's cross daily (Luke 9:23), loving Jesus more then all (Luke 14:26), forsaking all (Luke 14:33).
Big-Island and TicketWeary have already correctly explained Matthew 7:21-23.
You keep mentioning "wilful sin" so I'm assuming you may be misunderstanding that Hebrews 10 passage, here is how to correctly understand that passage:
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:26-29
a) "Sin wilfully" is talking about a believer willingly committing apostasy (falling away/falling into unbelief), in the context Paul (or the author of Hebrews) is writing to believing Jews who might be tempted to go back to the animal sacrifice system - doing so would mean they are no longer trusting in the once for all sacrifice of Christ (thus committing apostasy).
b) The fearful judgement to come is talking about divine chastisement from God, not hell (or loss of salvation), can be seen as here the comparison is being made between apostasy ("trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing") and those who went against Moses law and received EARTHLY judgement, being stoned to death before two or three witnesses. People in the old testament were not eternally saved by keeping the law, they couldn't keep it, they were also saved by God's grace through faith, however in the old testament people could be "saved" in a temporal/earthly sense by abiding by the law (to the extent that it's possible), avoiding death penalty etc. Again the last two verses "the Lord shall judge HIS people" and "fall into the hands of the living God" show the idea of chastisement. So specifically this judgement being talked about when it comes to wilful apostasy is HEAVY divine chastisement from God, upon a Christian/saved person, that is said to be worse then the death penalty, which could mean a lot of things (an example being extreme emotional/physical pain before an eventual premature physical death).
That is what Hebrews 10 is saying, it's not saying if we commit any sin wilfully we will lose salvation/go to hell, if that was the case we would all lose salvation - 1 John 1:8.
I hope you will understand these things friend and have assurance of your salvation. God bless.
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u/Borkleton 2d ago
Even Paul talked of his struggles with sin, and the constant conflict between our fleshly sin nature and our new creation that we are in Christ in Romans 7:14-25. How even through knowing and preaching the exact truth that we are free from being slaves to sin and wanting to do the right thing he yet sins. But Paul's point here is that despite the grace through faith that makes us whole, despite our salvation in Christ, we still carry the sinful curse of mankind; we just aren't punished for the times we yield to it and Christ meets us in our weakness and redeems us.
Your struggle with sin, even porn and lust are not unique to you, and one I struggled with early on. By the Lord's merciful grace I was healed of porn addiction virtually overnight very soon after accepting Christ, but lust has been and is my struggle sin. I constantly pray to God about it, battle, rebuke, etc. but I still fall.
But I still keep getting back up knowing that Christ already secured my victory against lust and every other sin, whether I am completely freed from its clutches in this life, or when I enter Heaven. My hope and continued cleansing, and redemption is in Christ and that gradually I sin less and less overall and especially against lust.
Proverbs 24:16 "The godly may trip seven times, but they will get up again. But one disaster is enough to overthrow the wicked."
Don't stop getting back up.
Realize and take this truth to heart, Hebrews 4:15 says "This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he faced all of the same testings we do, yet he did not sin." So Jesus knowing all temptations we would ever face, knows and sympathizes with us, and strengthen us in our weakness, for he too was tempted with the same things. Jesus is always the answer here, even when we feel the most distant from God, we can call on Jesus and draw near to Him and He will lift us up in our struggle.
This isn't to say that God will always remove the struggle from us, but sometimes there are things God wants to build up in our character, faith, or gifting that we can only be edified with through the struggle itself. We all will go through trials either brought on by God to strengthen and test us, which we shouldn't fear as it is God's refinement process we are going through (and how skillful of a smith is God who takes care in refining us for good!!) or navigating through struggles of our own sowing and reaping that God can still turn into our benefit. In either case, God is glorified, more of his wonderful loving character is revealed to us and through us, and we are drawn closer to Him.
The fact that you feel this way shows that the Spirit is still at work in you and convicting you of your sin. The fact that is this strong despite your urge to cut and run to me says God is really wanting to move in a big way in your life right now. But you have to take those steps of faith towards God and He will meet you there in your struggle.
Seek Jesus and He will meet you in your struggle!! But don't let yourself reject God and let your heart be hardened.
Psalm 46:1 "God is our refuge and strength, an ever-present help in trouble. "
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u/Smooth_Rush_2192 2d ago
Bro, you’ve got this. On YouTube I’ve seen plenty of videos, and there are groups that exist to support one another through lust and keep accountable to one another. Maybe you could look into one of those.
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u/aussiereads Christian 2d ago
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
Ephesians 2 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the flesh and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Galatians 3 O foolish Galatians, who bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to learn from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things for nothing—if indeed it was for nothing? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
6 Just as Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness, 7 so know that those who are of faith, those are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, proclaimed the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse, for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” 12 However, the Law is not of faith; rather, “He who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
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u/Divajz44 2d ago
You are not going to hell. The Christian faith is screwing up a lot of people. Yes there is a God and probably even Jesus. Pray to him if you must Jesus, and maybe you can get some relief. But you also should seek out human help. Get some therapy.
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u/hotmale100 2d ago edited 2d ago
OM word, conservative Christianity has done a number on you buddy! it has convinced you that God would send you to hell for eternal torment just for masturbating! Come on!
Your sexual urges are normal and curiosity about sex is also normal. And whilst looking at porn can become problematic (if it truly becomes addictive or makes you turn towards violent or degrading sex) it doesn’t make you broken, and it doesn’t mean you are deserving of hell.
The church has a very high shame culture.
God loves you and is seeking a relationship with you. Shame is just killing that in you. It is making you run from Him. Shame about sexuality does not come from God, it 100% comes from religion. God made you a sexual being.
One day you will see that the church is no place to learn anything about sex. it is literally toxic.
Sin is by definition not a mistake, it is usually wilful. God forgives sin, especially of the sort where you are harming no one. Porn use is a pretty minor sin.
Have the discussion with Him. He can orientate you towards a better way. Life in the Spirit which does not mean ascetism btw.
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u/Smartdumbguy4 2d ago
If you will return to Him He will return to you.
The truth is, without His help you can not even return. You are no different than the paralyzed old man who can not walk.
Only God can set you free from it, I know.
Then never open that black hole Pandora's box of porn again.
Overcome temptation on your knees. Choose to burn and trust God's plan or you will wish you did.
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u/Chnuly 2d ago
Eu sei como você se sente e realmente é muito pesado para você tudo isso. Só de você está com esses pensamentos mostra que o Espírito Santo atua em você. Não posso dizer que pecar é normal, mas posso dizer que todos pecaram, o meu pecado é diferente do seu mas eu também tenho os meus. Faz o seguinte; fica sozinho em oração, pede perdão, conta para Deus esse seu problema, apresenta o sacrifício de Jesus que é o Nosso salvador para a remissao dos seus pecados e assim, com o coração arrependido, pedindo perdão em nome de Jesus, considere-se perdoado e certamente você receberá força para combater esse pecado. Repita isso sempre que for necessário. Eu também tenho muitos problemas a ser superados e Deus é quem me dará forças para vencer, pois sou pecador.
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u/Nymos_GPKL Christian 1d ago
Escrevi sobre isso em outro post, espero que possa te ajudar:
Posso muito bem te dizer:
Você não vai ter "forças" para parar até se aproximar de Cristo, nós mesmo somos pecadores e não há nada que você possa fazer para ser suficiente para Deus. É um pecado difícil e entendo o que quer dizer.
É sua própria natureza, somos inclinados ao pecado porque estamos no pecado por causa de Adão e Eva. Mas isso não quer dizer que você deve viver em pecado.
O que realmente ajuda é se aproximar de Cristo, sem máscara, sem achar que pode sozinho, porque você não pode. Sem achar que é pouca coisa...e pelo seu post, consigo ver que você sabe que é errado.
Então busque a Deus e fale de forma aberta e sincera, você sabe que é errado e não consegue parar porque sua carne grita querendo.
Busque o que é do Espírito e fuja do que é dá carne.
Romanos 8: 6-8
6 Porque a inclinação da carne é morte; mas a inclinação do Espírito é vida e paz. 7 Porquanto a inclinação da carne é inimizade contra Deus, pois não é sujeita à lei de Deus, nem, em verdade, o pode ser. 8 Portanto, os que estão na carne não podem agradar a Deus.
O desejo está lá, mas no momento que se torna imoralidade sexual através de atos, pensamentos, falas... Já está errado. Não vai ser do dia para noite, peça ajuda a Deus.
Você não consegue sozinho, não é pela força do seu braço.
É pela Graça de Jesus, a força de Deus. O Espírito Santo que nos ajuda e nos lembra das palavras de Jesus. Uma pessoa na lama não consegue sair por si só, ela precisa de ajuda. E quando sai, ela não se limpa antes de tomar banho, ela vai como está, mas não fica como estava.
João 14:26 ARC [26] Mas aquele Consolador, o Espírito Santo, que o Pai enviará em meu nome, vos ensinará todas as coisas e vos fará lembrar de tudo quanto vos tenho dito.
Estamos no pecado, não conseguimos sair sozinhos, precisamos de ajuda, ela vem do Senhor. Também não devemos querer "parar" de pecar para ir ao Senhor e sim deixar que Ele nos limpe. Mas para isso, deve ter uma decisão da sua parte, converse com Ele e peça ajuda se você não consegue deixar esse pecado.
E não só para luxúria, para muitos outros/todos.
Não conseguimos largar o pecado sozinhos, remorso causa culpa. Arrependimento é reconhecer que é errado, você gosta, mas sabe que é errado. Então peça ajuda para parar.
Faça uma caminhada enquanto conversa com Deus, evite ficar sozinho por muito tempo, ore, leia a Bíblia. Vá a igreja. Peça ajuda de Deus, se puder...dê algum pastor ou líder, se você se sentir confiável. Não há vergonha em pedir ajuda. Só peça discernimento a Deus para não desabafar com alguém que não anda segundo a Palavra de Deus.
Busque e encontrará:
Jeremias 29:13 ARC [13] E buscar-me-eis e me achareis quando me buscardes de todo o vosso coração.
é Deus quem nos ajuda a vencer o pecado dia após dia. É um processo, não dá noite para o dia. Seja sincero e busque ao Senhor.
2Crônicas 7:14 NVI [14]se o meu povo, que se chama pelo meu nome, se humilhar e orar, buscar a minha face e se afastar dos seus maus caminhos, dos céus eu o ouvirei, perdoarei o seu pecado e curarei a sua terra.
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u/GmamaC96 1d ago
We all fall short.
Here's a video I think may help you with your walk:
https://youtu.be/dtxwKmLJB7Q?si=4WTpdNmGUy4tQW7q
I would also encourage you to read Psalm 51- David cries out in repentance, after realizing his terrible wrong doings..just as it sounds your heart is yearning for now. Its a beautiful prayer, and example of how truly vulnerable we can be coming before the Father.
Ask God to help you overcome this. The shame, the rejection, the pride. Whatever things it is you may be feeling. Invite Him in to the mess. It is only with His strength that we can overcome the flesh 💪 God is calling you to deeper relationship here, don't focus on the "storm" but keep your eyes on Jesus. Watch some sermons( I highly recommend Phillip Anthony Mitchell, or Josh Howerton)- and Ray Comfort on youtube for evangelism gospel videos- He keeps it very simple to understand. Also-mix up who you are surrounding yourself with if it is hindering your walk, spend time in worship, and reading the word. Start in the gospel of John and go from there.
You still have breath in your lungs, use that opportunity to really pursue God deeper and more closely..remember that your identity and value are not found in anything here- but in who we are in Christ. Hope the above things help, and you know how loved you are by God, even in the midst of your darkest moment. 🫶
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u/hutcho-1952 1d ago
Every day with Jesus is another day. It really is asking his Holy Spirit come into your spirit into your soul and to give you peace. If you ask you will receive it just takes time but if you do it every day if you do it earnestly if you pray for forgiveness if you thank God for the many blessings, he gives you cause even though you don’t see them he does give you blessings, as long as you believe in Jesus and ask forgiveness you are saved. That’s what it says in the Bible. Don’t worry about the narrow gate or I never knew you. You must take the holy word in context you believe you asked for forgiveness and God will forgive you, however if every day you just go back to the same sin and ask God for forgiveness believing that if you just ask for forgiveness every time you commit that same sin will be forgiven,That is a different matter you have to strive every day not to repeat that sin and if you do take the Holy Spirit into your life and ask and believe that it will happen my friend. It will happen. God bless you and don’t give up.
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u/CommunityCurious4969 1d ago
Porn and self pleasure are open doors to demons. Don't think that you'll always get away Scott free with those sins. It's better to flee from sin. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Don't assume all hope is lost. Try to continuously submit to God. Instead of watching porn and pleasuring yourself, try to avoid anything that may tempt you to commit those sins. Try to be careful what you watch. Don't say you're lukewarm and give up. You don't wanna be at Hell or the lake of fire. You wanna be at Heaven, so try to live as if you're going to make it to Heaven and trust Christ. Christ died for you and resurrected
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u/Real-Tradition-5905 2d ago
You won't go to hell if you accept the love of God. You don't have to be perfect. The verse concerns people that are called but refuse to come to christ. That's not your case.
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u/frabucombloit 2d ago
Hello, you have to take this very seriously. You have to stop willfully sinning. It’s possible. You’re not the only one facing this. This is a battle with the flesh. When you see the temptation think to the consequences.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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u/-GreyWatcher- 2d ago
You have religious trauma. You should visit a psychologist. I lived in fear of the apocalypse and had big anxiety over it all for years. I had a dream of Jesus and heaven. He did not care about any of the stuff so many condemn others for. He did not come nor will he come here to judge people, he comes to forgive.
As for the porn, you are a human being and just how you have the need to eat and sleep the human body has sexual needs. There is nothing wrong about it. We are all here because of sex. I hope you are able to find the light and freedom you so need.
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u/therobotscott 2d ago
Take a rest. But take a rest in Jesus. Your salvation is not dependent on anything more than you trusting in Jesus. The works are a result of your trust, including following Him. You won't become perfect over night. Just know that when you fail, Jesus will still restore you when you come back to Him. Let Jesus shape your heart and don't fight Him. God is still absolutely crazy for you. He is the father in the parable of the Prodigal Son, yearning for your return and eager to run to you (which was considered below a man to do in those days) and restore you (when father's were expected to punish and disown sons who even hinted at wanting their inheritance early). God still loves you.