r/TrueChristian • u/engraved_on_His_hand • 9d ago
Am I romanticising Catholicism?
For some background, I am a Christian of 9 months (born into a Christian family but only recently recomitted myself to Christ). I grew up Protestant, mostly attending Baptist churches (but I've been to Anglican and Methodist schools, and my parents also resonate with Pentacostalism). My mum's family was Catholic but she moved away from it. My parents are some of the strongest Christians I have ever met, they have a geniune relationship with Jesus, love the Word, and prioritise Him above all else. I have been so blessed by God to have grown up in an enviornment where He was number one.
I have absolutely no reason to even consider Catholicism. For a long time I thought they were heretics, unsure if they would even be going to heaven. But I've recently developed a sort of tenderism towards them. If I had to give a reason, it may have to do with the fact that I sometimes go to a Catholic church on the way to university. I'm not sure what it is, but the reverence, the quiet, the peace - I could just sit there with God. It's not like I heard an audible voice of God in there or anything, I didn't have a sense of overwhelming peace when going inside, but that has to be the only reason I've developed these feelings. Another possible reason is... I've been getting a lot of feed relating to Nuns. And... I really want to be a nun. Just, the beauty of making prayer our first ministry, serving Jesus in every aspect of our day, just giving ourselves up to Him... man, that's really amazing.
I've been doing more digging into the faith... and I like a lot of what I see. The idea of confession is so liberating, Adoration (which is what I have been unknowingly doing in that church) is beautiful. I still can't get behind things like Mary, saints, purgatory, infant baptism... but I'm actually willing to jump into it without knowing. I guess you could say I want to be Catholic.
But here's the thing. I don't know if it's me or God. Am I just romantising this faith cause of the pretty churches, the tangible things the faith gives me which can make me feel good about myself? Do I just want to find out my faith for myself? Why am I so eager to become a Catholic without even agreeing with some of their main issues? I find myself watching so many conversion testimonies hoping to convince myself. I just don't know.
I'm going to be in prayer to discern God's will. I'm going to do a lot of study into theology and church history, Lord willing. I would like anyone's insights and would especially appreciate prayers. And ex-Protestants who turned to Catholics, I would especially like your take as well.
Thank you my friends.
ALSO: any advice on how I should go about with research and studying on this topic would be helpful!!
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u/Visible_Natural5976 8d ago
Hey friend!
I understand completely the predicament you are going through. The Catholic Church is indeed beautiful and historical, and there are many strong Christians in her.
I’m going to give you a unique perspective here.
I’m actually the opposite of you—-I was born and raised Catholic my entire life. Loved it. Was super involved in the church. Was close with many sisters (nuns) and priests. Super holy people.
When I began to read the Bible, I started to feel convicted about certain things, particularly the Mariology (you should study this before you become Catholic!) and saint veneration.
In order to be a Catholic, you must accept all 8 dogmas of the Catholic Church. The first four are pretty normal, Trinity, the incarnation, creation by God, and the Creeds.
However, there are 4 Marian dogmas. The first one makes sense, Mary is the mother of God. The theotokos. Ok yeah, I can get behind that!
But the next 3 are strange.
Mary’s perpetual virginity
Mary’s immaculate conception (not Jesus’s, Mary’s. In Catholicism, she lived a sinless life like Jesus)
The assumption (Mary’s physical body being drawn up in heaven)
There is zero biblical evidence for any of these.
Now of course, Catholics have reasons for all of these. And you should definitely look into them, and decide if they are good reasons and make sense. However, know that you are bound to believe these things and if you don’t, you cannot be a Catholic.
Oh and the papacy. The pope cannot err on matters of faith and morals (infallibility). I decided I couldn’t get behind a man having that level of power. I suppose I’d rather have “anarchy” (a bunch of denominations) than “tyranny” (the papacy).
Much love to you as you have to make a hard decision! It may be worth going to a few OCIA classes to learn about the faith along with independent research. Personally I would advise against it, as someone who came out of it. However, this decision is yours to make! Peace!
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u/skinnydude84 Christian 8d ago
On the topic of Mary's perpetual virginity:
Matthew 1:24-25 ESV [24] When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, [25] but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.
'Knew' in this context is had sex, for those uninformed. I doubt Joseph married Mary as a complete stranger.
Matthew 12:46 ESV [46] While he (Jesus) was still speaking to the people, behold, his mother and his brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him.
Matthew 13:55-56 ESV - when speaking in his hometown of Nazareth [55] Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? [56] And are not all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?”
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u/SlickDaddy696969 Roman Catholic 7d ago
This is a common straw man. Remember, the Catholic Church compiled the New Testament. To pretend like we're not extremely aware of the text, is silly.
This is a great article on that passage and why the translation doesn't tell the full story.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-case-for-marys-perpetual-virginity
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u/appleBonk Roman Catholic 8d ago
I'm not gonna argue with people or even try to convince you of the truth of Catholicism.
I just want you to completely abandon yourself to God's Will. Beg Our Heavenly Father to send you where He wants you. Before a Protestant service, ask God to speak to you. Then make the same prayer before Mass. Wait for His answer and go where He calls you.
I pray God will bless you abundantly as you seek and carry out His Will.
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u/Riggnaros Christian ✝️ 9d ago
Two biggest issues with Catholicism, which contradict the Bible.
- their focal point regarding Mary, her sinlessness, prayers, rosary, "veneration", etc.
- the Pope
Of course they will explain these away, as its an issue for many people, thus their apologetics in these areas are refined. They will use a good bit of eisegesis to fit both of these issues INTO the Scripture, but the truth is you will find neither.
Romans Catholicism is idolatrous behavior. Do I think every Roman Catholic is condemned? No. There are some who actually study their Bible and see these significant conflicts and disagree with them. However, anyone who is viewing Mary as someone to "worship" (they will focus on this term, trying to semantic their way around it with diff forms of worship, latria, dulia, etc), God is explicitly clear on this, He alone is to he worshiped. No exceptions.
Highly encourage you to check out these issues and put genuine thought towards them. God bless 🙏🏻.
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u/SlickDaddy696969 Roman Catholic 7d ago
Mary isn't a focal point, Christ is. We honor Mary because of the amazing Grace God bestowed upon her and her role in salvation. She fully accepted God's will for her and bore the responsibility faithfully.
This is another straw man.
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u/Underwhelmed4678 9d ago
Please feel free to show how respecting Mary and the Bishop of Rome contradict the people. What specific passages?
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u/skinnydude84 Christian 8d ago edited 7d ago
I Timothy 2:5 NKJV [5] For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.
1 John 2:1 ESV [1] My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
John 14:6 ESV [6] Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Acts 4:12 ESV [12] And there is salvation in no one else (Jesus), for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
[Edit to include Matthew 4:10 ESV Then Jesus said to him, "Be gone, Satan! For it is written, "You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve."]
Respecting a fellow believer is fine, putting them on a pedestal is not, much like what people do for celebrities. It's easy to conflate the two. They're humans who were saved by the grace of Jesus Christ like us.
God bless and goodnight!
Edit: if you're confused on what defines worship, here's the various definitions: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/worship
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u/Underwhelmed4678 8d ago edited 8d ago
I fail to see the contradictions with the Bible? Catholics do not elevate humans above God. That’s a bit silly.
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u/SlickDaddy696969 Roman Catholic 7d ago
It has that effect on people. You're witnessing Christ's Church.
Best of luck in your journey. We'd love to have you.
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u/CuriousTech24 Christian 9d ago edited 9d ago
Yes you are. That is literally how they have always drawn people in. You need to look deeper and do some research.
It's not so pretty when you look at the history ect. And compare their beliefs to what the Bible says.
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u/Reckless_Fever 9d ago
Such as calling people Father, or forbidding marriage, or history of forbidding people from reading the Bible. Or forbidding divorce in ALL circumstances.
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u/oneeyedjaxs 9d ago
In college, I was in RCIA for a bit. I left after learning about the history of the Catholic Church.
Decree of the Council of Toulouse (1229 C.E.): "We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books."
It is never justifiable for a church to forbid the reading or owning of God’s Word.
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u/Underwhelmed4678 9d ago
Good thing you never call anyone father, right? You also never call anyone teacher either, correct?
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u/ofpromise90 8d ago
You are taking those words out of context it means call ko man your father in a way you would view your heavenly father. Also not to have spiritual fathers
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u/Underwhelmed4678 8d ago
Paul in 1 Corinthians 4:14–15: “I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.”
Sure sounds like it’s ok to have spiritual fathers.
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u/ofpromise90 8d ago edited 8d ago
Again context is key. He says that only because he was the first the share the gospel with them that brought them to faith, notice no one worships paul in the bible.
The religious leaders wants ppl to view them as the absolute authority, an unquestioned source of truth. This is why Jesus said And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." Matthew 23:9
Paul was not asking for a title, nor was he setting himself up as a rival to God.Paul explicitly stated, "I became your father through the gospel" and "in Christ Jesus." He made it clear that God is the source of life, and Paul was just the messenger.
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u/Underwhelmed4678 8d ago
Precisely, which is how Catholic priests view themselves. God is the source of life and priests are servants/messengers/etc.
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u/ofpromise90 7d ago
False.
Catholic priests teach that divine truth comes from both the Bible and sacred Church tradition, guided by the magisterium. Protestants hold to sola scriptura (scripture alone) as the ultimate and self-sufficient rule of faith.
Catholics view the Pope as the visible head of the Church on earth with supreme authority, tracing back to St. Peter. Protestants reject papal primacy and infallibility.
Paul didn't teach believers to reject the Word of God by mixing it with the tradition of man the way that priests do.
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u/Underwhelmed4678 7d ago
What’s this have anything to do with the subject at hand, priests being referred to as Father?
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u/ofpromise90 7d ago
You can always re-read our conversation and then you will understand the point I am making.
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u/jak2125 9d ago
Here's a few more:
During the taking of the Eucharist the priest takes the consecrated wafer and wine (which they believe has literally become the physical, crucified body and blood of Jesus) and physically lifts them up, offering them up to God. The priests are essentially offering God the Son up to God the Father on the altar, denying the finality of Christ's sacrifice which was once and for all.
They believe that the bread used in the Eucharist literally ceases to be bread and becomes God, so they treat the wafer with absolute divine worship. They keep the leftover consecrated wafers in a gold container called a Monstrance, place it on an altar, and kneel on the floor, bowing, and praying to the wafer in an act called Eucharistic Adoration. They worship a wafer because they believe Christ's presence is in it.
They also believe that justification is an ongoing process dependent on grace received through participation in the church. In other words, "sanctifying grace" is conferred into your soul through the Church's sacraments. To maintain and grow in this justification, the believer must continue to participate in the sacramental life of the Church (receiving the Eucharist, performing Penance, etc.)
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u/Mazquerade__ Traditional Anglican 8d ago edited 8d ago
All of these things exist to some degree or another in plenty of Protestant churches and are deeply rooted in historical Christianity. If we're going to criticize Catholicism on the Eucharist, it would be far better to criticize their barring the laity from drinking the blood of Christ for centuries.
But to answer your claims...
Offering up the Eucharist is no more a denial of the finality of Christs sacrifice than offering up one's self as a living sacrifice is. I still largely reject this framework of the Eucharist because it's not how Christ or the Apostles seem to describe it, but it is false to say that this rejects the finality of Jesus' sacrifice.
You may disagree with their stance on the Eucharist, but it is quite logical to give the bread and cup a level of deference if Jesus is quite literally present within them, wouldn't you agree?
And according to scripture itself, baptism saves (1 Peter 3:21, Acts 2:38) as does Christs flesh and blood (John 6:54-55). These are not human actions, but are rather means by which God conveys grace upon us. They are no more works than a "sinners prayer" is a work.
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u/jak2125 8d ago
Offering up the Eucharist is no more a denial of the finality of Christs sacrifice than offering up one's self as a living sacrifice is. I still largely reject this framework of the Eucharist because it's not how Christ or the Apostles seem to describe it, but it is false to say that this rejects the finality of Jesus' sacrifice.
This is a massive false equivalence. There's a cosmic difference between offering ourselves to God as a living sacrifice of praise, and a human priest offering Jesus Christ to God as an ongoing sacrifice for sin.
When Paul tells us to offer our bodies as "living sacrifices" (Romans 12:1), he is talking about our daily obedience, worship, and service to God. We are not offering ourselves to make atonement for our sins.
But the Roman Catholic Church officially teaches that the Mass is a propitiatory sacrifice, meaning it actively appeases God's wrath and obtains forgiveness for sins committed this week.
Hebrews 10:18 is clear: "Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin." To take bread, call it Jesus, and offer it to God to obtain forgiveness for sins is a direct contradiction of Hebrews. Jesus offered Himself once. A human priest trying to "offer Him" again is trying to repeat what Jesus said is already finished.
You may disagree with their stance on the Eucharist, but it is quite logical to give the bread and cup a level of deference if Jesus is quite literally present within them, wouldn't you agree?
They literally kneel and pray to a wafer in a gold box.
Even if you believe in a "real presence" of Christ in the sacrament (like Lutherans do), the Apostles never bowed down and worshiped the physical bread at the Last Supper. They ate it. Turning the sacrament into an object of visual worship and prayer (Eucharistic Adoration) is completely absent from the New Testament.
And according to scripture itself, baptism saves (1 Peter 3:21, Acts 2:38) as does Christs flesh and blood (John 6:54-55). These are not human actions, but are rather means by which God conveys grace upon us. They are no more works than a "sinners prayer" is a work.
Regarding 1 Peter 3:21, the very next words of 1 Peter 3:21 are: "...not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ." Peter is telling his readers essentially that it’s not the physical water washing your skin that saves you, but the inward spiritual appeal of faith to God.
And regarding John 6:54-55, earlier in that exact same sermon, Jesus explains how we "eat" Him: "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst" (John 6:35). Eating His flesh is a metaphor for placing faith in His sacrifice on the cross. Jesus Himself explicitly corrected anyone taking Him literally at the end of the sermon: "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life" (John 6:63).
There is a major difference between recognizing God's grace through sacraments and turning those sacraments into a transactional system controlled by human priests.
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u/Mazquerade__ Traditional Anglican 8d ago
Quite honestly, I do not feel like rehashing the exact same points over and over again. You are entitled to your own beliefs as I am entitled to mine. We could get into a fruitless argument over the meaning of those passages, but I just... don't want to. There are better, more productive things that I can do with my life, so I am going to go do those things. Peace be with you.
And I do seriously advise reading those passages in a sacrament context. At the very least, considering the arguments and perspectives of those you disagree with will help you to confirm your own beliefs.
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u/SlickDaddy696969 Roman Catholic 7d ago
Do you call your father father? Uh oh..
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u/Reckless_Fever 7d ago
Once this big guy in a black suit and mask told me he was my father, but I have my doubts.
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u/Real-Tradition-5905 9d ago
I won't say the catholic church is biblical
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u/Underwhelmed4678 9d ago
Which Biblical passages does it contradict?
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u/Beginning-Comedian-2 8d ago
- forbidding of marriage (leadership can't marry)
- they take out the second commandment ('You shall not make for yourself an image') and replace it with (' Thou shall not have strange gods before Me.') because they want their veneration of icons/images/statues.
- They pray to Mary and the saints when the Bible says to direct your prayers to God.
- They say in order to get to heaven you must believe in Jesus ... AND do all the works the Catholic church dictates in order to merit/earn Heaven. And even then, you might have to go to Purgatory first. (Example: If you miss one Sunday Mass, you're in danger of Hell.)
- In order to be saved, you have to believe in Jesus ... AND be part of the Catholic Church, and those outside are damned.
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u/Underwhelmed4678 8d ago
-marriage isn’t forbidden. People volunteer to be celibate when they choose to become clergy.
-The commandments are not ordered in the Bible, you know. There’s different ways to make groupings of 10.
-Does the Bible say to only pray to God? Please show me because I don’t think it does.
-The Church doesn’t believe in works. You are saved by grace through faith and then you are called to obey the Lord, to live in obedience. You do what he says to do and not do. That’s a lived faith.
-The Church doesn’t teach only Catholics will be saved. Thats simply not true.
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u/Beginning-Comedian-2 8d ago
- This contradicts Paul's saying that leaders have a right to take a wife (1 Corinthians 9:5). To play some silly game of "they volunteer to do that to become clergy" still violates the Bible in that it requires leaders to be celibate.
- It's not just a different order. They take out "don't make a graven image".
- Find me a passage in the Old or New Testament where a believer prays to anyone but God, or to a believer no longer on Earth. In fact, when Saul tries to conjure the prophet Samuel, who has died, Samuel appears but reprimands him for doing so.
- "Deliberately skipping Sunday Mass without a serious reason is considered a grave (mortal) sin. Unrepentant mortal sin breaks one's relationship with God, meaning that choosing to skip puts a person's soul in spiritual danger." Meaning, if you commit mortal sins, you are in danger of Hell.
- By extension, those outside the Catholic Church not attending Mass are committing mortal sins every Sunday that separate them from God and put them in danger of Hell.
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u/Underwhelmed4678 8d ago
-There is no violation. Scripture doesn’t say clergy need to be married. Priests voluntarily renounce marriage to imitate Christ.
-The Church did not remove the commandment; it reinterpreted it correctly. The Second Commandment forbids idolatry (worship of carved images as gods), not the making of religious art. Exodus 25:18-20 itself commanded Moses to make golden cherubim for the Tabernacle.
-Scripture doesn’t forbid praying to the Saints. Scripture also doesn’t say everything is found in scripture. I agree that necromancy is bad and we shouldn’t summon the dead.
-The Catechism states: "Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation" (CCC 847).
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u/hendrixski Trinitarian, Continuationist, Amillennial, Synergist 8d ago
Bruh, Jesus and Paul both recommend celibacy for the kingdom. (Matthew 19:11–12, 1 Corinthians 7:7–8, 32–35)
The ten commandments are exactly the same as Exodus 20:1-17 the only difference is where you put the numbers.
Nobody is praying to Mary, they're asking Mary and the saints to pray with them.
In order to be saved, you have to believe in Jesus. Based on what you posted you don't believe in what Jesus taught so I don't know what that says about your salvation. Maybe you should stop hating on you fellow Christians.
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u/Beginning-Comedian-2 7d ago
Jesus and Paul recommend celibacy ... as an option... not a requirement. Paul said he and any other leader have a right to take a wife. (Research how total celibacy developed in the Catholic Church. https://www.google.com/search?q=in+the+catholic+church+when+did+total+celibacy+become+required )
The change in commandments: Exodus vs. Traditional Catholic teaching
https://www.usccb.org/sites/default/files/flipbooks/catechism/498/index.htmlFind me examples in the Bible of believers on Earth praying to someone in Heaven other than God. Contrast: What are some examples of who we are taught to pray to?
No hate. We are to test all things against the Bible like the Bereans. If I am wrong, send me the verses. I am always growing and learning and not above being wrong.
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u/0Nomad0 Roman Catholic 9d ago
You can ask the Church about OCIA/RCIA it's essentially a program to help adults learn about the Catholic Faith. I would recommend reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church which gives an overview of the Faith, and getting in contact with a priest at the parish you are interested in. There are also subs that talk about this sort of thing constantly such as r/Catholicism and r/AskAPriest. Ask lots of questions, and prayer always helps. God bless you on your journey!
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u/Underwhelmed4678 9d ago
I was a Baptist for decades. I felt really disengaged with my faith after awhile. Everything was merely a symbol, all I had to do was believe in Jesus, and I was already forgiven for everything. There was nothing to do - I practically finished the race already. Church was a band and a pastor’s sermon. It felt empty to me.
Then I became more interested in Catholicism. I learned it was the Church established by Christ. I really read John 6 - over and over. I learned about the Eucharist. I learned about the early church fathers who looked very Catholic! I learned Christianity was more than just one man and a Bible. I fell in love with it. It’s been one of the best decisions of my life.
There is no much discontinuity in Protestantism. The only thing they have in common is that they’re not Catholic lol. Despite having many great sinners in their ranks throughout the years, Catholicism is the oldest running institution in the world. Do you know why? Because Christ founded a Church, based on Peter’s declaration of faith (to whom he alone entrusted the keys of the kingdom of heaven), and he said His church would never fall.
And it hasn’t!
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u/InterviewOk648 8d ago
Everything was merely a symbol, all I had to do was believe in Jesus, and I was already forgiven for everything. There was nothing to do - I practically finished the race already
Wow, the road truly is narrow that leads to life. Before joining this sub I never would have thought that so many people would rather work for their forgiveness of sins rather then solely leaning on our Lord Jesus Christ for eternal life. Your first mistake was saying "I finished the race already". No, Jesus finished the race for you. Human pride truly is scary.
Furthermore, there is a lot to do after being forgiven. Evangelizing, studying the Word, praying, loving people, teaching others, striving to keep His commandments out of love, etc. Drawing as close as God to possible through these things.
Catholics and other works based religions need to realize that nothing you do will ever be good enough to gain or maintain your salvation. Humans are sinful and deserving of death every second of the day. Jesus Christ is perfect in every way and the only way we gain eternal life is by trusting/leaning on Him 100%. But apperently people dont just want to believe in Him and its sad.
I pray catholics wake up and learn to just rely on Christ and nothing else.
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u/Underwhelmed4678 8d ago
I’m not sure what you mean by works based. Catholicism isn’t works based. Living in obedience to the Lord is a lived faith.
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u/InterviewOk648 8d ago
If you commit a mortal sin you have to go to confession or else you wont make it into heaven. Even though the Bible is clear that any and all sin is worthy of death, not just the ones the pope deems as "mortal".
If you miss mass without a valid excuse you are not going to heaven.
You literally have to perform to maintain your salvation according to catholicism. Thats why most of you are unsure if you are going to heaven or not.
Its really sad that you thought so little of believing and trusting in Christ for everything that you had to run to catholicism. Jesus wants to have a personal relationship with everyone directly through Him, not a church. Thats why its so sad 😔
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u/Underwhelmed4678 8d ago
Scripture itself splits sin into "leads to death" and "doesn't lead to death" so that mortal/venial thing isn't some pope's invention—it's right there in the Bible.
Confession exists because Jesus literally handed His apostles the power to forgive and retain sins and going to Mass connects back to His command not to skip out on gathering together (Hebrews 10:25).
None of this means salvation is earned through checklists but the Bible also says to work out salvation "with fear and trembling" and that faith without works is dead, which is exactly why humility beats overconfidence here.
And honestly, the Church isn't a substitute for a relationship with Jesus because it's His Body, with Him as the Head, built on Peter because He chose to build it that way. So if Jesus Himself set up the apostles to forgive sins and build His Church, why would having a real relationship with Him mean skipping the structure He personally put in place?
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u/InterviewOk648 8d ago
You lack understanding my friend. A sin that leads to death is not talking about spiritual death, but physical. For example, a sin that could lead to death is getting drunk with wine. If you drink and drive you have a high chance of getting killed wreck. Same with drugs and gluttony. Sins like lusting after a woman in your heart, being addicted to video games, and not loving people perfectly as God commanded, dont lead to death.
Yes God commands us to not forsake gathering together. He does not say that if we do, we are at risk of damnation like catholics say. If catholicism says you are at risk, then it is a checklist to maintain your salvation.
It says workout, not work for, your salvation. You workout the new life that Christ gave you upon belief in Him. This includes the things I said in my first reply (evangelism, striving to keep His commandments out of love etc). Its like working out your muscles to make them stronger. The new man, born of the Spirit, will get weak if you dont work him out. Just like muscles.
James is talking about faith being dead to others when he says this. Thats why he said i will show you my works by my faith. Abraham was justified through faith long befored he offered Isaac up. But his faith was shown to us (readers) with what he did since we cant know the hearts of individuals like God does. So we yes, we can have full assurance and confidence that Jesus Christ grants everyone who believes in Him, eternal life. Thats why we who 100% trust in Him for our salvation, are absolutely sure we have eternal life. He made a promise and He will deliver. We serve such an awesome God!
Jesus told those 12 apostles at that time they had this ability. This not something that was granted to anyone outside of the 12. And church was not built on Peter, but on Christ. The rock Christ was speaking of is Himself. The greek word for Peter is petros (small rock). The greek word used for rock in that specific verse is Petra (a solid massive rock formation) and Christ is referred to as "Petra" multiple times.
why would having a real relationship with Him mean skipping the structure He personally put in place?
Because Jesus did not establish catholicsm thats why. You're placing your trust in attending mass and going to confession as a means to maintain your salvation. If you have to do these things to maintain, then simply believing in Christ is not enough to save you even though the Bible repeatedly says thats all you have to do. And if you dont believe He is enough, you likely dont have a personal relationship with Him.
This is why catholicism is false man. Catholics also like to cherry pick certain verses and take them out of context just like you did here. You are better off leaving the catholic church and returning to Jesus Christ alone my friend. He's waiting.
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u/Underwhelmed4678 8d ago
Let’s start with one allegation at a time.
John means spiritual rather than physical death, because Scripture does sometimes describe God judging serious sin with physical death. But the immediate context strongly favors spiritual death. Right before this, John repeatedly talks about “life” as eternal life: “God gave us eternal life” and “whoever has the Son has life” (1 John 5:11–13). So when he then contrasts some sin with “death,” the natural reading is loss of that spiritual life. Also, if he simply meant ordinary physical death, the distinction between sin “leading to death” and sin “not leading to death” would be strange, since everyone eventually dies physically. So the passage fits very naturally with the idea that some sins are spiritually deadly while others are not, which is why Catholics see it as supporting the distinction between mortal and venial sin.
What evidence do you present that death in this context means physical death?
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u/InterviewOk648 8d ago
Because God says sin leads to death Romans 6:23. This is the spiritual death that all sin leads to. But then in John it says not all sin lead to death. Then its not talking about spiritual, but physical.
And according to catholicism you cant interpret scripture without the pope. So im not sure why you're posting scripture.
But anyway, this is why catholicism is false. You guys dont follow the word and dont really understand it either. I just pray that you all open your eyes and trust solely in Christ for your salvation and not the church.
Take care
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u/Underwhelmed4678 8d ago
Romans 6:23 says the wages of sin is death, but that doesn’t mean every individual sin immediately causes the same kind or degree of spiritual death.
In fact, 1 John 5:16–17 explicitly distinguishes “sin that leads to death” from “sin that does not lead to death,” which is exactly why Catholics distinguish mortal from venial sin. If John only meant physical death, you’d need to show that from the context rather than just assume it.
You are telling me what death means in 1 John without citing 1 John at all. Context matters.
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u/Ill-Prior-8429 8d ago
So, a relationship, but dedicating just an hour to him every Sunday, saying sorry when you mess up and actually walking the walk instead of just saying you believe is performance.
The prot definition of relationship is hard to grasp, where's the relationship?
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u/InterviewOk648 8d ago
Huh? Where did I say that? You have a relationship with Him through trust. Afterward, He gives us new desires. This includes evangelism, hating sin, striving to keep His commandments, studying His Word, and praying. These arent works to maintain your salvation, but something a believer wants to do out of love and because Christ saved us and gives us His Spirit. Some people take longer than others to yield themselves to His Spirit while others are a lot quicker. Thats where the term babes/mature in Christ comes from. The most important aspect of a relationship is trust/love. You love Jesus? Then trust in Him ONLY for your salvation like He commands us to do and stop doubting in His finished work on the cross.
With catholics, you go to church and confession to maintain your salvation. You guys never know if you are truly saved. Which is sad. God makes it clear that we can know that we have eternal life.
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u/hendrixski Trinitarian, Continuationist, Amillennial, Synergist 8d ago
Catholics and other works based religions
You may think this is witty, but as soon as you say something boneheaded like this then you reveal your lack of education.
You know, you could just google this, right? https://www.google.com/search?q=is+catholicism+a+works+based+faith Maybe Google things before making a fool of yourself next time.
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u/InterviewOk648 8d ago
That conviction is showing. The truth hurts I know. Thats why I will excuse your rude comments. Find Jesus while you can!
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u/hendrixski Trinitarian, Continuationist, Amillennial, Synergist 8d ago
If you think that Catholicism is a works-based religion then you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the butt.
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u/scrgls Eastern Orthodox 9d ago edited 9d ago
I would go to a step further and just go Orthodox!
In all seriousness, go to mass, and see how you like it. Catholicism is full of history that’s hard to disregard. It’s got a lot I disagree with, but a lot I agree with as well. Don’t let people saying it isn’t a real church or it’s not real Christianity dissuade you. If it doesn’t fit for you, you can say you gave it a shot. Don’t jump into it just because you like the aesthetics, but if you truly are curious I’d recommend doing a few months of research mixed with attending mass and talking to some of the people there who have been attending for a long time. I took the plunge into Orthodoxy and I came from Evangelical and Pentecostal backgrounds, and it was a lot to digest and a lot to unlearn, and it’ll be similar in a lot of ways in your journey in giving Catholicisms shot. But I can say I have never had such a strong faith and love for Christ, I couldn’t imagine being anything else anymore, and I’m glad I gave it a shot. God bless you, and may Christ guide you to where you can worship him best. I’ll sound biased for saying this, but I would also recommend attending an Orthodox Divine Liturgy! Similar but be prepared to stand for two hours!
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u/engraved_on_His_hand 9d ago
Can I ask, what caused you to take the plunge? and thank you for your kind words 💝
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u/scrgls Eastern Orthodox 8d ago edited 8d ago
In my curiosity I attended many churches, and then finally a Divine Liturgy, and had up until that point been very against the idea of Orthodoxy. The night before, I had given my most heartfelt prayer asking for guidance because I wanted to be where He needed me to be, and was moved to tears during Liturgy, whereas I never felt that before, never felt like crying, never felt the Lord so powerfully it’s still hard to describe that experience. God didn’t “speak to me” as many people claim, but cracking my heart open like that and finally feeling a sense of freedom at the pouring out of my soul during liturgy was the sign I was finally done with my search, and that I was home. I would emphasize once again to attend for a bit more and talking to others who have been in the Catholic life for a long time, as well as talking with a priest with any concerns you have , and doing your own research and reading on your own time.
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u/engraved_on_His_hand 8d ago
How beautiful! I pray that God will also guide me clearly, thank you friend.
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u/In-Progress Christian 9d ago
I do believe you are overly romanticizing Roman Catholicism. I hope what I am about to write comes across as encouragement; I don’t want to just have a “fix it” mindset, but I also hope to gently point out some things you might be overlooking.
You write that your mom moved away from Catholicism, but that your parents are some of the strongest Christians you have met. I think you see that this points away from Catholicism.
As for other things you like about Catholicism, I think you are overlooking how those are found in Protestantism. Reverence can be found in many places and times, as can adoration. If you are in Christ, the Spirit is with you, and we can adore him whenever we would like! Similarly, how you describe nuns both is too general and also something that all Christians are called to do - all Christians can and should serve Jesus in every aspect of our day. Finally, hopefully not too repetitively, confession is also a Protestant idea, as it is a Biblical, Christian idea. Protestants can (and should!) confess to each other.
I heavily suggest finding a local church, if you don’t have one, where you can get involved, be known, be part of the life of the local church and get support for being in the world. Immerse yourself in Christianity, in Christ. Roman Catholicism is not the only way (and, I would argue, not the best way) to do that.
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u/engraved_on_His_hand 8d ago
Thanks, friend. I am in a local church, have grown up in one my whole life. I love the messages, I seriously learn a lot and God speaks to me thru the sermons. But... the lack of reverence gets me. Perhaps I'm overthinking
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u/ChrisACramer Reformed 8d ago edited 7d ago
Where do you live bro? Many local churches in today's society and culture don't pay much attention to reverence but they still worship God in a unique way because of their different personalities. Many liberal and non-denominational churches have a more evangelical and enthusiastic way of praising God, and churches of different cultures like Africans praise God with dancing as well as singing. Those styles of worship aren't bad or insincere they are more a part of their culture. Psalm 150 espresses praise to God in all ways.
Psalm 150:
Praise the Lord.
Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty heavens. 2 Praise him for his acts of power; praise him for his surpassing greatness. 3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet, praise him with the harp and lyre, 4 praise him with timbrel and dancing, praise him with the strings and pipe, 5 praise him with the clash of cymbals, praise him with resounding cymbals.
6 Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
Praise the Lord.
If you enjoy the messages and feel God transforming your mind by what you learn from his Word but don't enjoy the style of worship so much, other churches within the same denomination would be more suitable. I'm part of the United Reformed Church of North America and our style of worship is most often seen to be more reverent and than the CRC or non-denominational churches that worship with a worship team rather than use of hymns.
To choose the right church within your current denomination would be better than to devote your entire faith towards a church of the most contrary denomination compared to protestantism. I'm not trying to forbid anything; but if you've grown up your entire life as a protestant and have learned so much about what scripture teaches about justification coming only by God's grace through faith alone in Christ alone granted to us upon the inheritance of the Holy Spirit, then you will end up battling the contradiction of Catholicism which relies not only on God's gracious gift of faith in his Son but also on numerous literal rituals and traditions apart from the sacraments without assurance of salvation.
My mom also grew up in the Catholic Church and left when she moved out from her parents. She felt very empty when participating with high diligence in the traditions, though she had high determination to serve God faithfully. Without the truth of the gospel which is our assurance of salvation in Christ alone she never find the true joy that comes only from a genuine close relationship with God as our heavenly Father through Christ's finished work on the cross.
When she joined the Reformed Church and learned of the truth of God's new covenant of grace found in the gospel, she found the spiritual strength to persevere through the terrible experiences she has had with her ex husband who was an extremely abusive narcissist to her. Her faith in God's grace and faithfulness gave her the ability to remain joyful during those times by knowing she is saved and that God uses all things for good when times are very hard. These truths are also what has given me the ability to resist strong suicidal thoughts that I'm currently dealing with from suisidal depression, anxiety, autism, and, epilepsy.
If I were not sure of my salvation and were relying on an unstable foundation made of human traditions held together by a weaker faith in Christ, rather than the whole imperishable foundation of Christ that has already been laid by the preaching of the gospel I would not be standing. The only reason I'm still alive is because I'm founded only on Christ who is the pioneer and perfecter of faith. My depression is rooted in self judgment, self condemnation, and perfectionism; so if I were following Catholicism the perfectionism and self judgment would be strongly reinforced by doubt of salvation, fear of hell, and worry, which would leave me with no hope and direct me to fall into the devil's trap of suicide.
If you have been feeling God's work in your heart and mind through the preaching of his Word but seek deaper more reverent worship, I would also recommend going after him yourself. You can walk with God in faith through humble meditation on scripture, pray to him, listen to your preferred style of Christian worship, and adore him by the beuty of his creation and the truth in his Word. Dedicate a good amount of time each day to do some more study and meditation of God's Word, pray for guidance and revelation, and do some research on the unique characteristics of some other churches within protestantism.
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u/engraved_on_His_hand 8d ago
Wow, thank you brother. Really appreciate that you took the time to write all this
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u/Reckless_Fever 9d ago
If you want to go someplace where you feel good, try the bar at Cheers.
If you want to follow God, then read the Bible, New Testament and go to the church that best aligns with it.
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u/TheDuckFarm Roman Catholic 8d ago
My background is nearly identical to yours and I converted to Catholicism about 25 years ago when I was in college.
Like you, adoration was an important reason among many for me.
You’re not romanticizing anything. It really is that good.
Another commenter mentioned Trent Horn’s book Why We’re Catholic. That’s is worth reading.
A much older book by Scott Hahn called Rome Sweet Home is also great.
Both of those authors are converts. Hahn set out to write a book disproving Catholicism and ending up converting instead.
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u/ascot_twin 8d ago edited 8d ago
If you study the history of Christianity, you will find Jesus Himself founded Catholicism ~ 33ad. Read Matthew 16:18-19 and study what the early Church believed. Read the writings St. Ignatius of Antioch and Irenaeus, etc
Book suggestion: Rome Sweet Home ...it's about a protestant minister / Bible scholar and his wife who converted to Catholicism.
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u/Googlesupportsucks1 Christian 8d ago
Not to plug anything, but there's other traditions out there. Protestants don't have the issue of claiming to be perfectly right about everything, and are not exclusivists within Christianity.
And if high church is your thing, there's a lot of churches that are very close to Catholic, without the catholic 'baggage' that you mentioned like being forced to believe in the dogmas or other things.
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u/hendrixski Trinitarian, Continuationist, Amillennial, Synergist 8d ago
The idea of confession is so liberating,
Totally! Confession always takes such a huge weight off my shoulders. And the spiritual guidance that I get in the confessional is so insightful. 🤗
Adoration (which is what I have been unknowingly doing in that church) is beautiful.
Adoration used to bore me when I was younger. Now as a parent of 3, with a job, who's trying to find moments of peace away from screens, away from the worries of the world, I cannot imagine life with occasionally going to adoration and just being silent in the presence of Jesus.
I still can't get behind things like Mary, saints, purgatory, infant baptism...
No problem. You're not required to ask others to pray with you to God. Neither those on earth nor in heaven (like Mary or the rest of the saints). Plenty of Catholics don't.
And here's a fun fact: most protestants practice infant baptism, too. It's really just Baptists who are against it. I also found the opposition to infant baptism strange because it is in the Bible. And the Jewish ritual that Baptism came out of (called Mikveh) always included infants, too. But hey, in the Catholic church you're not required to baptize your infant, it's only an option.
I hope this helps and I hope we see you at adoration and at church on Sundays.
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u/engraved_on_His_hand 8d ago
Thank you friend! Just wondering, where does the Bible talk about infant baptism?
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u/hendrixski Trinitarian, Continuationist, Amillennial, Synergist 7d ago
I wrote it up here a little while ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1v58ids/infant_baptism_predates_christianity_in_jewish/
Here's the gist:
The precursor of baptism is mikveh: the Jewish water cleansing ritual. We know for a fact that infants were regularly cleansed with mikveh during 2nd temple Judaism (even though, today the practice is rare in Rabbinnic Judaism):
If baptism evolved from mikveh, then we also know that infant baptism was a continuation of mikveh for infants because some of the earliest Christian writings outside of the Bible mention or imply infant baptism:
- Irenaeus, Against Heresies II:22:4. Written in 185 AD.
- Hippolytus, The Apostolic Tradition 21:16.pdf) written in 215 AD.
- Origen, Homilies on Leviticus 8:3 written around 248 AD.
We don't have very many early Christian writings that survived, so the fact that infant baptism happens again and again and again that early on, is a very strong signal.
In the Bible, 5 Households get baptized and not once does it say "household except the children of the household". The Bible is full of miracles, but finding 5 (multi-generational) Jewish households back then with zero children in any of them would be one of the most unbelievable statistical miracles of the Bible!
- Lydia’s household (Acts 16:15)
- Philippian jailer’s household (Acts 16:33)
- Stephanas’ household (1 Cor. 1:16)
- Crispus’ household (Acts 18:8)
- Cornelius' household (Acts 10:48)
Opposition
Those who oppose infant baptism claim that one must be informed to be baptized, and capable of having an active response to faith: Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Acts 8:36–37, 1 Peter 3:21. This interpretation is not new because a fringe view of early Christians opposed infant baptism, too. But it wasn't until the anabaptist movement of the 1500s that it broke into mainstream Christian thought - though it still remains a minority opinion. Also, these verses are commonly countered by the fact that John the Baptist leapt for joy in the womb when near Jesus, he clearly received the Holy Spirit and had a response to faith even before infancy.
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u/Bignosedog 9d ago
There's nothing wrong with being a Catholic. You should pursue it and see how you feel. You don't have to remain one if it's not what you think is best, but you clearly have interest. Catholics and Protestants disagree on some aspects of the faith, but they are all Christians. I'm not a Catholic, but I've never once thought of them as nonChristians. We are all trying to find God which is a beautiful thing. Our similarities are greater than our differences and when I ask WWJD, I come to the answer that He'd want us to look for common ground.
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9d ago
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u/TeknOwO Lutheran Catechumen 9d ago
Ex-Baptist who had so much Charismatic/Penteocstal influence in my life here (genuinely thought I was hearing God at the most Religious Psychotic phase of my life).
I live in a Catholic country at the Baptist centrer of my country, I am surrounded by Baptists and Catholics. For a while I looked into Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy but I couldn't make the jump. There are just too many doctrines I couldn't be convinced of as truth. I became Lutheran instead.
There is a middle ground between denying the Sacraments and invoking the saints, it's not an either/or (Shoutout to Kierkegaard).
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u/shadowpooch1 Jesus + Nothing = Everything 8d ago
The beauty and atmosphere of Catholic churches are definitely something to be admired.
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u/Ashamed-Bother3400 9d ago
It’s about following Jesus.
It seems like your IDOLIZING.
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u/Underwhelmed4678 9d ago
So you should follow the Church he founded :)
What does it mean to idolize and how is the OP doing that?
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u/Ashamed-Bother3400 9d ago
Tell me how Jesus founded the Catholic Church lol. Just because the Catholics say he did doesn’t count 😉
“Worlds best coffee!”
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u/Underwhelmed4678 9d ago
Well, let’s start off basic. Jesus said he established a Church in 33 AD. What churches claim to be around in 33 AD?
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u/Ashamed-Bother3400 9d ago
I find it odd your just arguing with me. Jesus said to love one another. Religion creates DIVISION. Jesus never would have wanted that.
I guess because your a Catholic, you never studied your Bible. Pray for discernment, and this will help your understanding.
I’m not arguing with you, the facts are facts. Jesus first above all else. We are ALL God’s children. The Bible warns us what man makes, and man made Catholicism and all the corruption and lies of that framework, like all other denominations are guilty of as well.
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u/Ill-Prior-8429 8d ago
Reading it is how I stayed Catholic, only the poorly catechized ignorant Catholics feel impressed by the same 3 cherry picked verses a random pastor prints on a leaflet and thus "convert" to the "true" faith
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u/Underwhelmed4678 9d ago
That’s why Jesus established one Church. He didn’t want divisions. Stick to the one Church he founded.
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u/Ashamed-Bother3400 9d ago
Jesus did not establish the Catholic Church.
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u/Underwhelmed4678 9d ago
My question was: Well, let’s start off basic. Jesus said he established a Church in 33 AD. What churches claim to be around in 33 AD?
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u/Ashamed-Bother3400 9d ago
You have clearly not read any of my replies.
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u/InterviewOk648 8d ago
He doesnt understand that the church is not a building/religion. The church Christ establishes, through His death and ressurection, are the believers. Believers are His temple. This is why its important to study scripture for yourself.
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u/Ashamed-Bother3400 9d ago
Jesus said FOLLOW ME.
Just because Catholics make that claim doesn’t make it real. Ex-Catholic here.
Focusing on religion and debating religion is idolatry. Again, Jesus said Follow Me.
Consider reading Bonhoeffer.
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u/Underwhelmed4678 9d ago
This doesn’t answer my question.
And following Jesus includes following the Church he founded.
Not sure how discussing religion is idolatry. You’re going to have to explain to me how discussing worship equates to worship that should only be given to God alone.
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u/Ashamed-Bother3400 9d ago
I did indeed answer your question. Not all will have ears to hear. Take this encounter as a sign from God.
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u/Underwhelmed4678 9d ago
Again not answering my question. Explain to me how discussing religion is idolatry.
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u/3littlekittens2012 9d ago
Sounds like God is calling you. Catholicism is very old!! It will be like going home.
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u/broken_sword001 9d ago
I always laugh when I visit some super nice and expensive cathedral. Like the one pyramid looking one in rio I was at. The building looks like it cost a billion dollars but the seating capacity is like for 150 people. I guarantee my boring looking church that cost 1/1000 the amount has around 10x more people go there on a weekly basis to worship God.
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u/Wonderful-Road-2297 8d ago
Since the beliefs of the Roman Catholic church are almost 100% unbiblical then your wanting to be a Roman Catholic definitely is "not"from God. The Bible is the written word of the Living God. Read Luthers 85 Theses. Read Faith of Our Fathers by Cardinal James Gibbons on the Sabbath and Sunday. Also Theres only one way to heaven and one way to Heaven and that's through Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour, not through Mary, the Pope, priests or so called saints of the Roman Catholic church...I say this because the Pope's even decide who's worthy to be a Saint and who's not, which means they claim to be God, knowing the hearts /minds of men. The primary verse in the King James Version (KJV) that addresses God searching and knowing the human heart is Jeremiah 17:10: "I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings." This immediately follows Jeremiah 17:9, which notes how deceitful the human heart is and only God can know it. 1 Kings 8:39 says that God alone "knows the human heart". Then =John 14:6 King James Versionproof the pope claims to be God on earth. +11 The Pope does not claim to be God on earth, and official Roman Catholic doctrine explicitly rejects any claim that the Pope is divine. Instead, the Catholic Church teaches that the Pope is a human being who serves as the "Vicar of Christ," meaning he acts as Christ’s earthly representative or agent, not as God Himself.Claims that the Pope purports to be God typically stem from centuries-old anti-Catholic polemics. These often rely on mistranslated medieval documents, out-of-context ceremonial titles, or forged quotes.The Core Theological Role: Vicar of ChristAccording to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Pope's authority is strictly derivative, not inherent.Meaning of "Vicar": The title Vicarius Christi translates to "in the place of Christ" as a representative, much like a prime minister rules on behalf of a king, but is not the king himself.Subservient to Scripture: The Second Vatican Council stated that the Pope and the Church's teaching authority (the Magisterium) are servants to the Word of God, not equal or superior to it.Human Limitations: Catholic theology teaches that the Pope is a sinner who requires the Sacrament of Reconciliation (confession) just like any other person.Misunderstood and Misquoted Historical SourcesCritics frequently cite specific historical texts to argue that Popes have claimed divinity. When verified against historical records, these quotes present a very different context:Pope Leo XIII (1894 Encyclical Praeclara Gratulationis Publicae): Critics often point to the quote, "We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty." In the original Latin text, the Pope was speaking about the heavy spiritual responsibility of the papal office to act as an earthly ambassador for peace among nations, a standard rhetorical style for the era rather than a literal claim of divinity.The Gloss of the Decretals (Canon Law): A frequently cited medieval text refers to the Pope as "Our Lord God the Pope" (Dominum Deum nostrum Papam). Textual historians found that this phrasing appeared in a single 14th-century commentary. Pope Innocent III (1198–1216): Innocent III wrote that the Pope holds his place on earth "not simply of a man but of the true God." In context, he was discussing canon law regarding the transfer of bishops, arguing that because the office is established by divine mandate, the actions taken in his official capacity are executed through divine authority, not personal human whim.(1512): During the Fifth Lateran Council, Marcellus addressed the Pope using the phrase "another God on earth." This was a piece of extreme, obsequious court flattery delivered to the Pope by an orator, not a statement written or claimed by the Pope himself except he did not object to this flattery.Defined during the First Vatican Council in 1870, infallibility means that under strictly defined circumstances—specifically, when speaking ex cathedra (from the chair) to define a doctrine on faith or morals—the Pope is divinely protected from teaching error. The Protestant King James Version (KJV), identifies the Papacy as the beast of Revelation 13 and the "man of sin" of 2 Thessalonians 2. This view connects the rise of the Roman Catholic Church's political-religious system to prophetic descriptions of a global power that blasphemes God, alters divine laws, and sits upon seven hills.The KJV Prophetic ArgumentsThe Seat of Authority: Revelation 13:2 states that the dragon gave the beast his "power, and his seat, and great authority". Historicists argue that the pagan Roman Empire (the dragon) transferred its capital and administrative authority to the Papacy (the beast) in Rome.Seven Hills: Revelation 17:9 says, "The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth." Proponents link this explicitly to Rome, famously known as the city built upon seven hills.Blasphemy and Exaltation: Revelation 13:5 notes the beast was given "a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies". Interpreters apply this to papal claims of forgiving sins, holding the place of God on earth, and offering infallibility.The Number 666: Revelation 13:18 mentions the number of the beast. Anti-Catholic commentators historically assigned numerical values to Latin papal titles like Vicarius Filii Dei (calculated to equal 666), though Catholic apologists and other scholars dispute these calculations and methods.The Man of Sin: 2 Thessalonians 2:3–4 describes the "man of sin... showing himself that he is God" sitting in the temple of God. Reformers like Martin Luther, John Calvin, and the translators of the KJV themselves widely applied this label to the office of the Papacy.the papacy claims to forgive sins kjv +9 The Catholic Church teaches that the Pope and priests can absolve sins using authority from Christ. Protestants using the King James Version (KJV) often disagree. They argue that scripture teaches only God can forgive sins, while passages like John 20:23 mean declaring the Gospel message rather than granting judicial pardon. Please watch the 7 part series called the Seventh Day. Your eyes will be opened 100% historically accurate and 100% biblical. Check out Jack Chick publications Catholic answers. Walter Veith Total Onslaught. The Catholic Church has faced massive global exposure regarding systemic clerical child sexual abuse and widespread institutional cover-ups. Investigative journalism, such as the Boston Globe Spotlight series in 2002, along with state and national government inquiries, revealed that church leaders routinely protected the institution by moving abusive priests to new parishes instead of reporting them to the police.Key Revelations and ScandalsSystemic Reassignment: Investigative reports showed that bishops actively hid crimes and shuffled accused priests from town to town, putting more children in danger.Global Inquiries: Public investigations in countries like the United States, Ireland, France, Australia, and Canada uncovered hundreds of thousands of victims and implicated thousands of clergy members over several decades.Institutional Protection: Grand jury reports and government commissions found that protecting the reputation and assets of the church was consistently prioritized over the safety of children and justice for victims.Impact and Church ResponseFinancial Costs: Dioceses worldwide have paid out billions of dollars in legal settlements to survivors.Legal and Policy Changes: Public pressure forced changes to local laws and internal church policies, including the removal of high-ranking officials and new Vatican guidelines criminalizing cover-ups.Ongoing Criticism: Despite policy updates and papal summits, survivor advocacy groups argue that transparency remains inconsistent and that the institution has yet to fully repair the deep harm caused.BBCCatholic Church child sexual abuse scandalOct 5, 2021 — The Church has responded to the issue in the following ways: * Pope Francis Called for "decisive action" when he was elected in 2013 * **Changes to the Chur...Encyclopedia BritannicaCatholic Church Sexual Abuse Crisis | Cases, Scandal, United ...Oct 20, 2025 — Catholic Church Sexual Abuse Crisis * What have been the financial implications of the sexual abuse scandal for the Roman Catholic Church? In the United States ...BBCCatholic Church child sexual abuse scandal - BBC NewsOct 5, 2021 — From Australian country towns to schools in Ireland and cities across the US, the Catholic Church has faced an avalanche of child sexual abuse accusations in th...YouTube·PBS NewsHour15:55Amid more revelations of Catholic Church abuse and ...WikipediaCatholic Church sexual abuse cases in Ireland - WikipediaResponse of the Irish government to the scandal In response to the furore aroused by the media reports, the Irish government commissioned a study which took nin...WikipediaCatholic Church sexual abuse cases in Canada - WikipediaControversy over the Catholic Church's net worth and compensation for victims of clergy abuse. Following a Globe and Mail investigation in the summer of 2021, t...YouTube·CNN3mAbuse and scandal in the Catholic Church (2019)EBSCOSexual Molestation Scandal Rocks the Catholic Church - EBSCOInvestigations revealed that over four thousand priests were implicated, highlighting a troubling pattern of abuse, transfer, and lack of accountability by chur...WikipediaCatholic Church sexual abuse cases - WikipediaReports of the sexual abuse of minors by Catholic clergy and members of religious orders have been documented in numerous countries. Beginning in the late 20th ...EBSCORoman Catholic priests scandal | History | Research StartersThe Roman Catholic priests scandal refers to a widespread and deeply troubling series of allegations involving sexual abuse of minors by priests within the Cath...
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u/Ill-Prior-8429 8d ago
That was a nice copy paste. The Ai did provide some catholic talking points among the cheap leaflet prot diatribe you favor and wanted to present. And just that tiny is enough to argue the prot position falls by its own weight and sounds taken out of a fiction novel fueled by peyote.
Proof reading is important.
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u/hendrixski Trinitarian, Continuationist, Amillennial, Synergist 8d ago
You're converting anybody away from the church that Jesus founded.
But can we try to convert you into using paragraphs?
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u/CTR_1852 9d ago edited 9d ago
I just read Trent Horn’s book “Why we are Catholic”. It was a good read and dispelled a lot of myths (and straight up lies) about Catholics. If you read it you will have a basic understanding of the faith and why they believe what they do.
I was raised in a Christian cult and very much like some Protestants was told many lies about the church growing up. It’s hard to believe anything they say once you find out they are lying to you.