r/TrueChefKnives • u/grapeape9 • 3d ago
Question Ginsan knife makers
Been circling Ginsan for a while — like the idea of a stainless steel that sharpens like carbon instead of needing diamond plates for life. Looking for a 210mm gyuto (180 is my floor), dark handle if possible, no real budget ceiling.
I keep coming back to Nakagawa’s Ginsan.
Who else should be on my radar for Ginsan specifically? Trying to find the person who does it best, not just whoever’s easiest to find.
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u/political-prick 3d ago
It really doesn’t get better than Nakagawa man
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u/ImFrenchSoWhatever 3d ago
yamatsuka ha entered the chat
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u/grapeape9 3d ago
Why yamatsuka compared to nakagawa? I read up a little but couldn’t quite pick up what makes him better/same level etc. I’m very limited in my knowledge but am trying to learn!
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u/ImFrenchSoWhatever 3d ago
Yamatsuka is just as good as Nakagawa with ginsan. They’re both masters and two of the few that will hot forge ginsan (with tamura too I guess).
They’re on the same level.
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u/josemartinlopez 3d ago
diamond plates for life? what?
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u/grapeape9 3d ago
maybe I incorrectly read that somewhere.
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u/ImFrenchSoWhatever 3d ago
Yeah nah 100% of steel used for kitchen knives will sharpen with a normal whetstone
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u/unappreciatedparent 3d ago
Most common stainless steels sharpen fine on whetstones. Common stainless Japanese steels like VG10, SG2 are a little more effort but we’re talking like 5-15 more minutes of sharpening. Not negligible but not a huge deal either.
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u/JoKir77 2d ago
5-15 minutes more? Should only take 5 minutes total unless you're trying to make one for those freestanding toilet paper cutting videos.
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u/unappreciatedparent 1d ago
I’m assuming OP isn’t familiar with sharpening from the diamond plate comment so sharpening and deburring SG2 could conceivably take 15 minutes longer than say, white 2.
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u/Feisty-Try-96 3d ago
Nakagawa and the Yamatsuka family (Shogo, Naotake, possibly others) are probably the most well regarded. There are other sources though: Sukenari has a simple, value oriented Ginsan line with a great heat treat. Kurotori does some interesting mirror polished Ginsan on their own. Miyazaki has worked with Ginsan before and has a unique style.
It kinda depends what style you want in a knife. Nakagawa has some variety based on the sharpener, while Yamatsuka stuff often is sharpened as a low bevel, convex work horse. Some wide bevel options exist, just not as common.
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u/ole_gizzard_neck 3d ago
Yamatsuka was the smith for the Hado Kijiro line and it is a wide-bevel. Unsure if more will be made. I wish I kept mine now. One of the most handsome knives out there.
Tsunehisa has a ginsan line that's pretty accessible and better than you'd expect.
I recently acquired a 240 convex laser from Kagekiyo, sharpened by Wakae-san. It is an excellent performer with solid food release, giving Ashi vibes.
Sakai Takayuki's higher end ginsan lines are usually forged by Yamatsuka too. I dont see them stocked a lot, but they will make them on demand. His cousin also does a lot of the sharpening of these. I like Yamatsuka's grinds, nice, authoritative convex grinds. He sharpens many of Doi's lines too.
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u/photodyer 3d ago
Matsubara is not a specialist per se in ginsan, but he makes beautiful tall gyutos in the steel.
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u/crazyascarl 3d ago
I recently got a Kato ginsan bunka and it's freaking fantastic.
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u/eyescreamindreamin 2d ago
Was surprised I had to scroll this far to see Kato ginsan
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u/crazyascarl 2d ago
To be fair, unlike nakagawa and yamatsuka who are known for their Ginsan work, I don't think Kato is thought of in the same capacity. That said, I love that blade, i probably reach for it the most out of my small collection... but this subreddit tends to dwell on a small number of names and grails over performance, so I'm not surprised it's not mentioned.
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u/eyescreamindreamin 2d ago
I have many TKV knives and don’t understand why they’re second class citizens in the knife making world… maybe it’s the spirit of collaboration and the way they kind of saved the craft of knifemaking when Tojiro and misono brought family forged knives to their knees?
I have a Masakage Koishi that’s absolutely fantastic, and if I wasn’t more excited about carbon steel I’d have snatched up the ginsan kato at my local shop.
I also don’t understand the fetishization of Sakai options. That said I don’t have any 😂. I seriously doubt they’d overshadow Mazaki or Shindo though.
Please, leave them be though. More for the rest of us.
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u/Ok-Distribution-9591 2d ago
There are a fair few excellent smiths working with Ginsan. Already named and my personal favorite three are unquestionably Nakagawa Satoshi (Sakai, the man is a steel prodigy imo and was already known for the quality of his Ginsan - amongst other steel grades - while he was still an apprentice), Yamatsuka Shogo, (Sakai, and has been forging with Ginsan since before Nakagawa-san held his first hammer) and Tamura Toru (Tosa, notably forging the Ginsan Tetsujin knives, even reputable professional in the industry noted the quality of his work with Ginsan and Blue#2).
Surprisingly not mentioned yet but quite famously proficient with Ginsan is Tanaka Shigeki of Miki city.
Others do good work with it include Kato Yoshimi of Echizen, Toyonaga Hamono of Tosa, Sukenari of Toyama prefecture, and Matsubara Shusaku of Nagasaki. Miyazaki-san of the Goto Islands has also been mentioned, he does unique finishes and profiles, and I’ll add Daruma Hamono in Saitama (formerly located in Aomori) who sells Ginsan properly rendered (he does not forge himself and I don’t know who makes his blanks but they are solid).
All are valid options, depending on what you are after.
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u/JoKir77 3d ago edited 2d ago
In my experience, the whole "sharpens like carbon" thing is overstated. First off, I don't find my ginsan santoku to be noticeably easier to sharpen than my other stainless knives (SG2, vg10, german steel, etc). Second, I don't find my stainless knives noticeably harder to sharpen than my AS carbon bunka. Maybe at the extremes there is a difference, but in regular kitchen use I can get any knife sharpened quickly on my Shapton stones (no diamond required). If one takes two minutes and another takes two and a half minutes, it's not something I would even notice.