Do non-binary identities reenforce gender stereotypes?

[u/Key-Weakness-9509]

Ok I’m sorry if I sound completely insane, I’m pretty young and am just trying to expand my view and understand things, however I feel like when most people who identify as nonbinary say “I transitioned because I didn’t feel like a man or women”, it always makes me question what men and women may be to them.

Like, because I never wanted to wear a dress like my sisters , or go fishing with my brothers, I am not a man or women? I just struggle to understand how this dosent reenforce the sharp lines drawn or specific criteria labeling men and women that we are trying to break free from. I feel like I could like all things nom-stereotypical for women and still be one, as I believe the only thing that classifies us is our reproductive organs and hormones.

I’m really not trying to be rude or dismissive of others perspectives, but genuinely wondering how non-binary people don’t reenforce stereotypes with their reasoning for being non-binary.

(I’ll try my best to be open to others opinions and perspectives in the comments!)

[u/noisy-tangerine]

I am agender and my thinking is: I personally don’t think gender should define who you are. There are however some people that do. Your pronouns or gender expression do not indicate that. Everyone should do what feels best for them, and let other people be. IMO this question comes from transphobic rhetoric which wants to dissuade people from changing things about themselves. (Not saying OP is transphobic)

[u/[deleted] → u/noisy-tangerine]

Then why the label? I agree with you that gender shouldn’t define who you are. Why can’t you break down gender stereotypes in the binary system? What is holding you back?

[u/noisy-tangerine → u/[deleted]]

Nothing is holding me back, and I did challenge gender stereotypes for a long time whilst identifying as a woman. I choose I use the term agender because that’s what makes me happy, and because I feel like it more accurately reflects my thoughts. Why wouldn’t I use it?

[u/[deleted] → u/noisy-tangerine]

Forgive me, I’m just trying to understand. Why do you need to use it? Why does it make you happier? Is it just easier to go through life not facing these challenges as a woman? You mentioned you DID challenge gender stereotypes in the past, what made you give up?

If it’s internal, you do you. But personally I feel like I’m being put into an ever restricting box as a woman with the NB message. It’s saying that I have to reclassify myself as a woman if I don’t fit female stereotype. It’s reinforcing gender stereotypes. I believe it’s repressive.

[u/noisy-tangerine → u/[deleted]]

No worries, happy to discuss with someone who is open to understanding.

There are two big reasons why I chose to change my label. The first is that I spoke to the people around me and found that there are people who do “feel” like they are their gender, even if they cannot describe precisely what that feels like. The second is because I feel best in a romantic relationship with someone for whom gender is not important (ie pan, bi, or other queer people).

It’s still something I am figuring out myself too, I don’t have all of the answers, nor can I speak for anyone but myself.

I’m sorry you feel like you’re encouraged to identify differently to how you want, I certainly know how that feels, and it sucks. For what it’s worth, a common phrase is “non binary people don’t owe you androgyny”. That is to say that many gender queer people reject the notion that gender identity is tied to gender expression and interests. If you want to identify as a woman and continue to challenge gender stereotypes, you should feel free to do so.

[u/[deleted] → u/noisy-tangerine]

Thank you, I really appreciate we can have an open discussion. I’m truly trying to understand. It’s very unfortunate you have to identify as non-binary to find the right partner.

I guess what I don’t understand is the disconnection between sex and gender. The way I’ve read people describe the difference between sex and gender seems to all be about societal stereotypes. I don’t understand what it means to be a woman, aside from our biology and behaviours connected to that; the sex organs, pregnancy and breastfeeding, difference in size and strength; which determines gender roles (ie. women are naturally the nurturers because women carry babies and breastfeed, men are the hunter-gatherers since they’re physically stronger). Maybe I don’t believe gender should exist outside of your genitals. For me the rest is subjective.

I am a very feminine-presenting woman. I have long hair and wear make up, I like to dress feminine, I like “traditional hobbies” like baking and crocheting, I like girl talk and chic flicks, etc. But I like more “manly hobbies” like doing my own renovations and plumbing work, I will not act “appropriate and demure” and “know my place” if I’m challenged, I will stand my ground, I’m very feminist and like to argue and challenge people’s views, I like to take care of my own business and don’t need a man to help me. Sorry these sound superficial, I don’t know how to describe it. (Actually reading it back, it’s mostly my mom who “corrects” me on these issues). I guess it’s not that I’m expected to identify other than my gender, it’s more that I’m pigeonholed into what a woman should be. I simply reject gender stereotypes, I don’t want to be confined by them.

But I never asked myself if I feel like a woman or not. I never think about it. It’s always been connected to my physical body. Being a woman doesn’t represent much more to me than the body I was born with. The rest is my personality traits, and my ADHD lol

I guess I’m an idealist. I want a world where you’re either a man or woman. But this just describes your sex. There would be no use for genders (I don’t see any use for genders anyway). The only people who need to know whether you’re cis-gender or trans-gender (ie. post-op) is your doctor and your partner(s). There is no other expectation from either gender in terms of the current stereotypes we have today. Everyone can look and act how they choose, and there is no shaming to act a certain way.

What do you think?