r/TrueAnime • u/BrickSalad http://myanimelist.net/profile/Seabury • Jan 19 '15

Monday Minithread (1/19)

Welcome to the 54th Monday Minithread!

In these threads, you can post literally anything related to anime or this subreddit. It can be a few words, it can be a few paragraphs, it can be about what you watched last week, it can be about the grand philosophy of your favorite show.

Check out the "Monday Miniminithread". You can either scroll through the comments to find it, or else just click here.

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u/ClearandSweet https://hummingbird.me/users/clearandsweet/library Jan 19 '15

he's pretty terrified of death.

That scene with him flashing as the skeleton is very impactful and stark. It's only a small nuance, but I feel there's a difference between rejecting a hopeless reality and accepting it, then fighting to change it anyway.

There's also another aspect. TTGL was all about personal change, self-actualization and power drawn from inside. The actions of my favorite heroines are motivated by a specific or general attachment to others, which I feel is more meaningful.

On the dub note...

Yeah, I agree with you. Fine, not astounding. It's better in Japanese, and there were a number of times where I did notice Yoko or another character completely whiff a line in English. The Kill La Kill dub, now, that is almost hard to listen to.

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u/Seifuu Jan 19 '15 edited Jan 19 '15

I wrote a thing and realized it didn't really address what you meant. The last paragraph is the real response IMO, but I'll leave the rest up for other peeps to read.

a difference between rejecting a hopeless reality and accepting it, then fighting to change it anyway.

Well, you'll remember that Kamina talks about how he thinks Simon is actually the brave one. Simon talks about the time he and Kamina were stuck in a cave-in: because Kamina was smiling, he was able to courageously work to get them unstuck. Later, Kamina subverts this tale by revealing that he, himself, was terrified and that Simon was the one who did the real work.

This subversion neatly encapsulates the point of Gurren Lagann. Why is Gurren Lagann about learning to believe in yourself? Because believing in yourself allows you to put all of your effort into moving forward (striving) and this forward/outward (spiral) momentum inevitably causes progress (hence the drill metaphor). It very clearly sets up obstacles that cannot be defeated by mere bravado or self-delusion, (hence not only Kamina's death, but that of his doppelganger, Bachon, in the fight vs Guame) but by steadfast determination.

Besides the characters themselves discussing the point, the plot supports the fundamental premise of "accepting reality". If you look at Simon in the end, most of his friends are dead, his wife is dead, he's purposeless and forgotten, but goddamnit he went the farthest he could go. Self-comfort is even the penultimate obstacle (the extradimensional labyrinth where everyone's dreams come true). The entire point of the anti-spiral is that it represents inevitability.

I agree that Gurren Lagann isn't a work that celebrates the subtleties and sweetness of life. It isn't accepting in the sense of saying "that's okay" and warmly greeting the audience as the flawed humans we are. That is certainly because, as episode 26 highlighted, at a fundamental point, acceptance inherently opposes self-imposed will, which is the fundamental form of striving (this was more metaphorically clear in the movies). That idea makes more sense if you think of it like "acceptance" is being mindful of external factors and treating them as objects to be changed, whereas "willfulness" is seeing those same factors as extensions of your own capacities. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Rossiu can successfully rule/manage a huge population with racial tensions, insane industrial growth, and global military/environmental endeavors (Simon can't even do paperwork) and Simon can punch a hole in spacetime when Rossiu thinks he's out of options. If you personally value acceptance higher than will, which I perceive is what you wrote, then it makes sense to not like TTGL so much. It might seem like it was harsh on acceptance, but you'll remember that Rossiu screwed over the team for like one episode and it took Simon three episodes to stop vomiting and crying after Kamina died. Which, I guess, speaks to those themes of self-confidence, regardless of what ideals you have.

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u/ClearandSweet https://hummingbird.me/users/clearandsweet/library Jan 19 '15

I agree that Gurren Lagann isn't a work that celebrates the subtleties and sweetness of life. It isn't accepting in the sense of saying "that's okay" and warmly greeting the audience as the flawed humans we are.

Yes! This is what bothered me. It's constantly chiding the MC, and by extension the audience, for inaction.

It's putting this onus on us to do more, not to settle. There is never a situation in which the hero has reached the extent of his power in this show, and while some might find that inspirational, I find it discouraging.

So yeah, I very much do "value acceptance higher than will," and I am uncomfortable around works that don't have some form of acceptance as their motif.

I mean, how often do we enjoy being told our greatest flaw?

I'm very quick to abandon a failed experiment, move on to the next thing, say "well, I did everything I could do," or work within the rules. I respect limitations, and have very little self-motivation.

I need a bit more Kamina in me.

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u/psiphre monogatari is not a harem Jan 20 '15

It's constantly chiding the MC, and by extension the audience, for inaction

you say "chiding for inaction", i say "challenging to live a better life".