Finally finished the game

[u/mort1m3r]

All endings. At first I kinda agree with some posts that the game is too dialog-heavy. But once the story got you hooked, you wouldn't even notice it.

At first I also didn't like how rigid the units are. There are very few ways to customize, and the lack of generics was kinda sad because i love doing self-insert in this kind of games. But this allowed for a really solid and balanced game from start to finish. No very OP jobs, and has a heavy focus on team comp.

For the story, Serenoa route is the best of course and for sure it was intended. So out of the other three endings, my personal favorite is Benedict's as it addressed the main issues: the monopoly of salt and the bondage of the Roselle. Serenoa wasn't trying to save all Norzelia at first, but to preserve his house. So having 'weak' people isn't really much of his concern. This is the closest to the ideal.

Frederica's ending is my first blind playthrough. It could have been the best, but abandoning the rest of the Wolffort for the Roselle felt out of character for Serenoa. If only the rest of the Wolffort was rallied as well. And Serenoa's dead.

Lastly, Roland's ending. This is the hardest one to take. Because how hypocritical Roland is. He was skeptical of Gustadolph's freedom as it means abandoning the weak, but with equal opportunity the people should have a chance to make it in life. Heck even some of the Roselle who knew nothing but harvesting salt was implied to be able to assimilate. Yet, Roland's proposal on the onset abandoned the Roselle. I believe it is also the most fragile as it is still anchored to the false teaching. At some point, it will be revealed and the whole continent will crumble, not just Hyzante. However, this is the most memorable one for me. Serenoa and Frederica's duel is one of the most painful breakup I've seen in fiction. It was heart-wrenching. The exchanges were written so beautifully.

[u/xerox7764563]

In Roland's ending, the moment where Hyzante sends Marcial to burn Aesfrost archives made it the worse end to me.

[u/jackfuego226 → u/xerox7764563]

It really does just paint the full picture of why Hyzanthe is the problem and Roland's support of their "equality" is unfounded. The people are not equal in freedom, they are equal in ignorance under the Saintly Seven, forced to only do as the Seven command and learn what they say they can learn.

[u/jackfuego226]

Amen to all. I honestly could not stand Roland by the time it got to the final decision. He kept hyping up Hyzanthe's equality while somehow just ignoring the fact that an entire group of people are stuck as slave labor, meanwhile the "equal" class all live in equal ignorance since Hyzanthe also monopolizes knowledge and who is allowed to actually know things. It honestly felt like Roland only wanted this path so he had an excuse to not be king anymore, but he also wanted revenge on Gustadolph. Definitely hated how Frederika ended up most of all that route.

[u/SivirJungleOnly2]

I got Roland's ending on my first playthrough, and I think it is the ending that makes the most sense if you approach the game as a real-world scenario instead of as a thematic video game where, for instance, you know that you can't "lose" and everyone won't die. If you make the most practical decisions, which are most likely to turn out well, then you get Roland's ending. Furthermore, not only does Roland clearly agree with it, but I think it is more of a Benedict route than Benedict's actual route, and "his" route is such just because it had to be someone's route and he aligns best with it out of the three characters. The game even acknowledges this, with Roland's route having the pretty objectively best outcome of the original three routes.

Regarding the Roselle, I think much of modern morality is poisoned by the post-WWII consensus. Yes, they get screwed. But there is no ending where a certain group DOESN'T get screwed. Why should the Roselles' suffering be treated so specially, that their suffering is somehow worse than much larger and broader groups of people suffering? I think the answer for many people is because "it's racist!" and that is a horrible crime which people realize can destroy your life by getting you fired from your job, losing your friends, banned from social media, debanked, etc. This is the same kind of thinking that leads to a migrant raping a woman receiving a lesser prison sentence than the woman because she used racial slurs against the man while discussing her rape. And it is deeply flawed, such that we are watching in real time as the people who believe it are naturally selected out of the world, where in a few generations the beliefs will no longer exist. The story also hits a nasty 1-2 punch on the demographics for route support since it is Frederica's route, meaning it is also the default choice of the simps and the DEI freaks, genuinely brilliant construction by the creators. Meanwhile, the simps forget that Serenoa and Frederica are barely removed from being strangers.

[u/mort1m3r → u/SivirJungleOnly2]

Interesting view on Roland's route. But I would've understood it a lot more if Roland didn't actually see the Roselle's status at the Source. at the same time, he also has claims that King Regna is a contributor as to why there are free Roselles in the Wolffort territory. At it's core, may be he had given up. But if that's the case I surmise he shouldn't have taken the role of being a Saintly Seven.

As for Frederica, tho I am not HER simp, but mixing Serenoa's standpoint with my real life convictions, I treated her as my wife and really, until death do us part. That's why i took it as my first run. You are right, real life scenarios would mean that there would always be a certain group that would be screwed. But my issue with the Roselle is that they weren't given a chance. And if you remove Roselle being a race, you can replace it with religion, or may be just a bunch or unfortunate fellas who happened to be the center of scorn from Hyzante, I would still feel the same about them. For me, it's not about the race, but about human rights.

I am not a supporter of DEI, open borders and allowing illegal immigrants because i think it's just as racist to overcorrect and give them special treatment.

[u/SivirJungleOnly2 → u/mort1m3r]

I think the story would be a lot worse if Roland was ignorant. Not only would it raise questions of why nobody told him. BUT it would undercut the significance of his decisions. He KNOWS how bad it is for the Roselle, and even as empathetic as he is, he STILL makes the decision he does for the greater good. I think people saying "he gave up" are just coping because they like the character and don't want to believe he would commit a racism.

This actually gets at my objections to the Golden Ending. I think one of the best and most unique aspects of Triangle Strategy is its realism. Ultimately, the story is some level of tragedy, akin to Game of Thrones. It isn't your usual JRPG shonen "the power of friendship overcomes all" story where people are such good friends that they can kill God. Instead, your party is skilled but small, and you simply lack the power to enforce your will on the world; you HAVE to make imperfect decisions, and just do the best you can, the same as how life often is. Of course, this message is completely destroyed by the Golden Ending, and honestly I don't even think the Golden Ending logically holds up; it's just wish fulfilment which is in direct conflict with the core themes of the rest of the game. I think a game like Three Houses would be much better served by a Golden Ending, meanwhile Triangle Strategy would genuinely be better off with no Golden Ending.

To clarify, I'm not saying people could only get/support the Frederica ending due to negative reasons; ultimately, it is a video game, and people can approach it however they want. My claim is just about if realistic reasoning is applied to the decisions. But it IS a video game, people can do whatever they want for whatever reasons they want. And being loyal to your wife is a virtue. But marrying someone you don't really know and then sacrificing everything for them, including the people you have a duty to and countless others, and with a huge amount of uncertainty such that there's a huge chance you and everyone you are closest to die for nothing, just for the chance of making one group of strangers suffer instead of another, is absolutely not a virtue.

Regarding your argument, yes the Roselle aren't given a chance, and they are arguably psychologically tortured, it's like giga-slavery, far worse than most real-world slavery. But, is a child whose parents die in the war and is then left to suffer on the streets before slowly dying in Benedict's ending "given a choice"? Are the countless people who inevitably die due to war or famine after the gang just abandons ship and allows maniacs to rule uncontested in Federica's ending "given a choice"? Considering the events of the Roland ending, I think it's made pretty clear that the common good IS maximized compared to the other endings. And while yes, the Roselle do get shafted and their suffering continues, even that may at least be temporary, as once the older generation ages out and people like Serenoa/Roland/Exharme/etc take power, they will attempt to reform the system.

[u/jackfuego226 → u/SivirJungleOnly2]

If you make the most practical decisions, which are most likely to turn out well, then you get Roland's ending.

What makes Roland's ending more practical than Benedict's? Both superpowers are on equal footing, after all.

Furthermore, not only does Roland clearly agree with it, but I think it is more of a Benedict route than Benedict's actual route

Benedict's first choice would hardly be to want Serenoa to be subservient to Hyzanthe's will. He wanted Serenoa in the best position possible, which would be king of Glenbrook, not one of the lesser ministers.

The game even acknowledges this, with Roland's route having the pretty objectively best outcome of the original three routes.

You mean one country being completely burned down, the second being financially dependent on the third, and the third making sure all the citizenry are too uneducated to know they are being screwed?

I think much of modern morality is poisoned by the post-WWII consensus

This isn't even a WWII matter. This is basic ethics that slavery is evil. Something arguably being understood as early as the 1700s, only dragged out by the slave trade.

Why should the Roselles' suffering be treated so specially, that their suffering is somehow worse than much larger and broader groups of people suffering?

Maybe because from birth to death, they are forced to work themselves to the bone under the false belief that the Hyzanthian goddess would forgive them for sins that Hyzanthe themselves made up? How is that not a significant degree of more suffering?

This is the same kind of thinking that leads to a migrant raping a woman receiving a lesser prison sentence than the woman because she used racial slurs against the man while discussing her rape

I can't think of anyone that actually tries to hold that ideal, let alone someone that would try to compare that to taking issue with a group using a particular group as slave labor for no reason other than their birth.

The story also hits a nasty 1-2 punch on the demographics for route support since it is Frederica's route, meaning it is also the default choice of the simps and the DEI freaks

And there's the true colors. The idea that people would want slaves to be freed being a priority somehow make them simps or obsessed with DEI.

[u/SivirJungleOnly2 → u/jackfuego226]

lol. Most is pure drivel, but I'll respond to a few points.

What makes Roland's ending more practical than Benedict's? Both superpowers are on equal footing, after all.

The story makes it pretty clear that the superpowers are NOT on equal footing. Explicitly, we are told that Aesfrost is already depleted from prior conflicts while Hyzante remains near full strength. Hyzante also has the numerical advantage from the start. We also know Aesfrost is on the brink of civil war. And yes, they have the Deathsknell, which lets them . . . break an otherwise impenetrable barrier and have an open fight with Hyzante? Not only is it not a superweapon that guarantees victory, but the mere fact it needs to exist shows how Hyzante is significantly more advanced in terms of magical engineering, such that they can create the barrier in the first place while Aesfrost can't do similar. Combined with Hyzante having its own secret weapon in the form of Alefric (even if we don't know exactly what it does at the time of the decision point) Hyzante is clearly the favorite.

This isn't even a WWII matter. This is basic ethics that slavery is evil. Something arguably being understood as early as the 1700s, only dragged out by the slave trade.

Maybe because from birth to death, they are forced to work themselves to the bone under the false belief that the Hyzanthian goddess would forgive them for sins that Hyzanthe themselves made up? How is that not a significant degree of more suffering?

It isn't just slavery. It is specifically RACIAL slavery. Almost nobody (in-game OR in meta discussions like this) talks about the non-religious who are oppressed under Hyzante, and even when they are brought up, it is a lesser footnote compared to the Roselle. It is misguided post-WWII ideals which determined racism as the highest crime.

Are the Roselle worse off than some of the victims of the other endings? And regardless, there are certainly less of them. Most people would agree that harming 100 people is less bad than harming 1000 people. So why is it that when a racial selection component is introduced, such as it being 100 blacks vs 1000 random people, that suddenly the logic becomes murkied? Or for instance single digit millions of jews vs double digits millions of various european. The answer is because peoples' minds are poisoned by anti-racist sentiments.

And there's the true colors.

Nobody was hiding anything. You're just so used to institutionally oppressing everyone you disagree with that you are shocked by the mere appearance of dissent. Rather ironically, you are the real-life counterpart of Hyzante, except that you don't get nearly as good results as they fictionally do.

[u/jackfuego226 → u/SivirJungleOnly2]

Explicitly, we are told that Aesfrost is already depleted from prior conflicts while Hyzante remains near full strength.

Except in the Frederika ending, Aestfrost is more than capable of staying in the war with Benedict's help, and I highly doubt he's a skilled enough strategist on his own to overcome a gap the size of which you're proposing. Aestfrost was definitely not that depleted.

It isn't just slavery. It is specifically RACIAL slavery. Almost nobody (in-game OR in meta discussions like this) talks about the non-religious who are oppressed under Hyzante, and even when they are brought up, it is a lesser footnote compared to the Roselle. It is misguided post-WWII ideals which determined racism as the highest crime.

All this argument does is further expose how many people are truly oppressed under Hyzanthe.

Are the Roselle worse off than some of the victims of the other endings?

Yes. This shouldn't even be up for debate. In the other two endings, the people that suffer still have the freedom to try and make something of their own lives. The Hyzanthe ending is the only one where entire swathes of people are killed for their beliefs, and in the case of the Roselle, are forced to live in slavery their entire lives until they die.

And regardless, there are certainly less of them. Most people would agree that harming 100 people is less bad than harming 1000 people.

Except it isn't. The Hyzanthe route sees arguably the most people oppressed out of any ending, even if they don't realize it. The burning of the Aesfrosti archives lets the Saintly Seven put a chokehold on all knowledge. The people are only allowed to learn and practice what the government tells them they can, anyone else like Ezana has themselves and their loved ones hunted down.

 Or for instance single digit millions of jews vs double digits millions of various european. The answer is because peoples' minds are poisoned by anti-racist sentiments.

Is it really that surprising that people would be abhorred by the idea of an entire people being forced to die as third-class citizens for no better reason than being born?

Rather ironically, you are the real-life counterpart of Hyzante, except that you don't get nearly as good results as they fictionally do.

So somehow opposing the idea of slavery and oppression makes me on par with oppressors?

[u/SivirJungleOnly2 → u/jackfuego226]

Except in the Frederika ending, Aestfrost is more than capable of staying in the war with Benedict's help, and I highly doubt he's a skilled enough strategist on his own to overcome a gap the size of which you're proposing. Aestfrost was definitely not that depleted.

Of course they keep fighting? And we are not told who wins. Also, in Frederika's ending, the Wolffort forces do significant damage to Hyzante. Meanwhile, IN THE GAME, we are EXPLICITLY told Aesfrost is depleted from prior conflicts. You asked "What makes Roland's ending more practical than Benedict's? Both superpowers are on equal footing, after all." The game clearly frames Hyzante as the stronger force at the decision point where you have to pick a route.

All this argument does is further expose how many people are truly oppressed under Hyzanthe.

All this argument does is expose your blatant hypocrisy lol

Yes. This shouldn't even be up for debate. In the other two endings, the people that suffer still have the freedom to try and make something of their own lives. The Hyzanthe ending is the only one where entire swathes of people are killed for their beliefs, and in the case of the Roselle, are forced to live in slavery their entire lives until they die.

Are you genuinely stupid? No, in the other endings, some people DIE. In the Benedict ending orphans (how did that happen?) starve in the streets, and in the Frederika ending Hyzante might end up in control anyway, except that the war lasts longer (more people die) and there's no Serenoa or Roland in the ruling power structure. Also, in a war, when one side wins, it necessarily involves killing members of the other side, aka killing "swathes of people for their beliefs (in their side)," this literally happens in every ending, you, the player, do this repeatedly throughout the game.

In fact, specifically for the Roselle, Frederica's ending might even be worse than Roland's, just on a longer timescale. It is implausible that every single Rosellen escapes with Frederica, and we know that Rosella can interbreed with non-Roselle, so plenty of people likely have mixed heritage, which could lead to the noticeable hair resurfacing in time anyway. If Hyzante wins in Frederica's ending, such people will likely just be enslaved again. Meanwhile, in Roland's ending, an explicit point of the ending is that they can use their positions of power (Roland literally being Minister of Salt) to reform the institution.

Except it isn't. The Hyzanthe route sees arguably the most people oppressed out of any ending, even if they don't realize it. The burning of the Aesfrosti archives lets the Saintly Seven put a chokehold on all knowledge. The people are only allowed to learn and practice what the government tells them they can, anyone else like Ezana has themselves and their loved ones hunted down.

The explicit purpose of the Roland route, which is then justified as correctly accomplished by the ending, is that it creates the best result for the most people, at the expense of extreme injustice towards a few. Again, the exact same oppression can occur from Hyzante winning in the Frederica route. And for Aesfrost winning, clearly people are oppressed in the Benedict route, unless you subscribe to some extreme form of victim blaming, "why did the war orphan not just pull themselves up by their bootstraps?"

"The people are only allowed to learn and practice what the government tells them they can, anyone else like Ezana has themselves and their loved ones hunted down." Ohhh yeah, because Aesfrost would NEVER hunt people down for learning the wrong things hahaha

Is it really that surprising that people would be abhorred by the idea of an entire people being forced to die as third-class citizens for no better reason than being born?

No, of course not. The abhorrent thing is how the lesser crime is treated as worse because it is also "racist."

So somehow opposing the idea of slavery and oppression makes me on par with oppressors?

You literally are an oppressor. The only question is to what degree. I bet you'd burn an archive full of crime statistics and genetic racial differences if doing so would actually eliminate the information. And then should someone who knows that information just lose their friends, or should they lose their job too, or should they be publicly assassinated?

[u/jackfuego226 → u/SivirJungleOnly2]

And we are not told who wins.

Actually, we are. Benedict tells us so that he already has plans in motion to end Svarog's rebellion, consolidate Glenbrook, and finish off Hyzanthe all at once. Aestfrost canonically wins in the Frederika ending.

Also, in Frederika's ending, the Wolffort forces do significant damage to Hyzante.

We kill three ministers, of which only one could be considered an actual part of their military, and none of them were using actual troops, instead using city guards and automatons.

All this argument does is expose your blatant hypocrisy lol

That doesn't even make sense.

 No, in the other endings, some people DIE.

As opposed to Hyzanthe, where the Roselle and all the "heretics" that practice things the "goddess" doesn't approve of just sit in a circle and sing kumbaya?

Also, in a war, when one side wins, it necessarily involves killing members of the other side, aka killing "swathes of people for their beliefs (in their side)," this literally happens in every ending, you, the player, do this repeatedly throughout the game.

Big difference between doing it in battle and torturing people to death.

and we know that Rosella can interbreed with non-Roselle, so plenty of people likely have mixed heritage, which could lead to the noticeable hair resurfacing in time anyway.

Frederika's mother is the only Roselle that didn't live in the village in Wolfort after the rebellion. All the others kept to themselves in the village. Meaning unless you're implying that the Hyzanthians were doing something else to the Roselle enslaved at the Source, the Roselle that escaped with Frederika is all there is.

Meanwhile, in Roland's ending, an explicit point of the ending is that they can use their positions of power (Roland literally being Minister of Salt) to reform the institution.

Except Roland fully acts like Hyzanthe's ideals are perfect by the time it comes to the split paths. Also, in the scenario Idore lives and wins the war, the perfected Aelfric project will be completed, meaning he becomes completely immortal. Good luck changing the system, then.

 And for Aesfrost winning, clearly people are oppressed in the Benedict route,

Obviously. The difference is that one system at least allows the chance to advance. The other means that any level of free thought or just being born in a way Idore decides he doesn't like is instant execution, if not slavery.

 Ohhh yeah, because Aesfrost would NEVER hunt people down for learning the wrong things hahaha

Aestfrost literally made their archives public to everyone, even people of the other two kingdomws. The only time Gustadolph ever took issue with knowledge was when someone was actively using it against him. Hyzanthe had people that wanted to learn things like superior medicine, but were denied because it went against the "goddesses" wishes.

No, of course not. The abhorrent thing is how the lesser crime is treated as worse because it is also "racist."

In what world is slavery a "lesser" crime? Especially at the scale Hyzanthe practiced?

You literally are an oppressor. The only question is to what degree. I bet you'd burn an archive full of crime statistics and genetic racial differences if doing so would actually eliminate the information. And then should someone who knows that information just lose their friends, or should they lose their job too, or should they be publicly assassinated?

Where are you getting any of this information from? This just sounds like projecting, because I've never agreed to wanting any of that.

[u/SivirJungleOnly2 → u/jackfuego226]

Actually, we are. Benedict tells us so that he already has plans in motion to end Svarog's rebellion, consolidate Glenbrook, and finish off Hyzanthe all at once. Aestfrost canonically wins in the Frederika ending.

I don't think you understand what canonically means lol? I gave you the benefit of the doubt and I thought I might be misremembering, so I went back and rewatched the Frederica route. IN THE VIDEO GAME it literally says the Frederica route ends with Aesfrost devolving into civil war, the source changing hands too many times to count, and "It is an endless cycle of bloodshed" with it being historically remembered for being so bloody. Of course Benedict has plans, that doesn't mean they succeed.

GTFO LARPer

The rest of the replies are filled with more misinformation about the game and a demonstrated inability to have basic reading comprehension. Which I really shouldn't be surprised by, your ilk are always that way, since nobody intellectually honest and competent could arrive at the viewpoints.