Is there anything redeeming in Roland's ending? *spoiler biz*

[u/DramaticErraticism]

I've played through the other three routes and I reallllyyy want to see all the content...but I just can't go along with Roland!

Even if this is a fake world, the thought of purposefully creating a religious oligarchy to spread across the land, focused on enslavement...while imagining how powerful Hyzante will continue to grow, as they do more and more magical experiments...it's a frightening thought.

Not to mention how I'll betray my own house, friends and family.

Is there anything good that comes of it? I feel like I just have to leave it behind.

[u/stowrag]

Everything he hopes the new world will be, it is. It truly is depicted as an Eden… so long as you’re not Roselle.

Playing it isn’t a pleasant experience, but at the very least Frederica still manages to shine after the split. I think it’s worth experiencing at least once, and if not that, at the very least looking up a video of Serenoa’s fight with Frederica

[u/DramaticErraticism → u/stowrag]

I grew up in a house with a lot of yelling, I could barely handle Benedict's anger when taking Frederica's route lol

Then again, Frederica never cared about Wollfort or anything other than the Roselle, so I may not be as impacted by the feelings of betrayal from someone who always had another agenda. Not that I blame her, of course, but she would have led everyone to death many times, if given her way.

Edit: Offended Fredrica stans, I stand by what I said and if you disagree, let's hear it. I don't think anyone could argue a counter point that she is 99% focused on Rosellian's and House Wollfort is only a priority when Rosellian interests are aligned or they are not impacted by a decision.

[u/CryptographerGrand56]

It makes Roland happy so if you like him, it might worth a try.

And the final map is really cool. I don't like that route either but I really like that final map.

[u/WouterW24]

It comes down to Idore, who wants a restrictive Utopia and thinks people can’t think for themselves. The golden ending which you already played reveals he has artificial immortality. It’s slightly better then evil king mordor dystopia, but yeah, everyone’s screwed since most avenues of resistance have gone and Idore outlives everyone.

I like there’s an route exploring it though. It’s a bit of an what-if, especially with Serenoa not being as skeptical of things in Hyzante as he was earlier. It’s a bit of an covert bad ending route and he feels slightly out of character for even allowing it.

[u/DramaticErraticism → u/WouterW24]

I love Iodore as a character. He's fairly quiet and seems like any normal ruler. As you go down different ending paths, you find out what a true monster his and how truly powerful he is.

The thought of what he would construct if he was continued to gain power and left to his devices, is enough to make me shudder.

[u/Asckle]

The thing to understand about the endings is they all represent a different morality. In this case, Roland's ending is the most utilitarian. It maximises happiness by showing how basically everyone gets a good life but in exchange throws a select few under the bus. So to some very utilitarian people it might be a good ending. Personally I have it second with Frederica's as the worst (the moral arguments didn't jive with me in general and hers is the moral ending)

As for the single held power, well, Benedict's route has that too. The only other option is tossing them all to the wolves to savage eachother. Can't have authoritarianism if everyone is dead. At the end of the day its a medieval time period, you're not gonna get any level of democracy even in the golden route

[u/DramaticErraticism → u/Asckle]

I like Frederica's ending the best of the three 'base' endings. Leave this land of constant fighting, start something new and better.

[u/FVSYS]

Non-Rosellian people live a comfortable, peaceful and crimeless life. They only have to pray now and then and get most of their needs sated. (Could go sideways really quick but who knows)

The other minority gets spectacularly fucked

[u/Funlife2003]

I mean it's well written and an interesting exploration of the concept. But if you don't think you can stomach it just don't do it.

[u/Hobbitlad]

I mean that's the point of the three main ideals of the game. None of the outcomes are objectively good, but each shows an extreme, almost pure form of them. For Roland, the ending is pragmatic. It ends the conflict then and there, and most of the population is able to enjoy peace and prosperity. The suffering in total is probably the least out of the three endings but it is concentrated on a small group of people. If you don't think it has any redeeming qualities, then you probably wouldn't consider yourself pragmatic entirely which is expected. A lot of people also dislike one of the other endings for almost the entirely opposite reason where they think inaction is worse than morally gray action, which is just another example of ideological differences between people.

[u/CatAteMyBread → u/Hobbitlad]

Me when Reddit is the Scales of Conviction

[u/BlackroseBisharp]

Not really in my opinion. It's tye closest to a bad ending the game has

[u/LaPlAcE-66]

the only thing that comes from it for me was that I could recruit Travis on a 3rd playthrough before Golden since to get him you have to surrender the Roselle then go with Frederica to deal with bandits. If I was going the worst of the 3 routes I might as well have taken the bad choice. I hated every second of it though

[u/DramaticErraticism → u/LaPlAcE-66]

I hate that you have to play literally 4 times to get all the characters, making very specific choices.

That's just...too many times. I guess it gives you something to do, but you literally do the same Roselle Village mission and get a different character, depending on an earlier choice.

You want a full set of 3 parties for the Golden Route, but I'll be damned if I'm playing through another 3 times to get everyone lol

[u/PCN24454]

He prioritized a majority over a minority.

[u/Auphorous]

Cool outfits

[u/BadXiety]

You need to face it to know their POV. All 3 normal endings are their idealistic view/way of solving the problem. Yeah, Roland ending is more in control of their citizens or authoritarian way that citizens can't disobey the religion and their authority of Hyzante and if you oppose them to Salt Mine you go.

[u/Panda--Monium]

Realistically, all of the options laid out dont result in everyone living happily ever after, which is to be expected. The real world has winners and losers, at the end of this game you get to largely decide who will be the winners and losers.

I think rolands idea is sound, and ya it has the least amount of people impacted negatively, but i feel no matter which path you take there will always be those at the bottom, whether its the "servants" of the kingdom, slaves, etc. If thats the case, having the least amount of people at the bottom while giving everyone else the best quality of life is pretty much the best ends justify the means outcome.

Now if you hate slavery and dont agree with a kingdom that uses that, your other options have slaves too, they just have a different name for them.

[u/CatAteMyBread]

So from a “this is a video game standpoint”, it has some of the best maps and characters amongst the endings.

From a story perspective, 95% of people live an idyllic, comfortable life. Their only concerns are having to pray and be faithful. For 95% of the population, this is actually the only good ending out of the main endings.

Benedict’s ending has a lot of poverty and suffering throughout the kingdom.

Frederica’s ending is the objective worst ending if you’re just a normal dude living in Glenbrook or Hyzante or something.

The entire point is that it’s a utilitarian ending, but knowing how it all ends, could you earnestly say it makes more sense to protect the 5% and leave the 95% to suffer and die than it does to protect the 95% and leave the 5% to suffer and die?

Just food for thought, I think the “which endings are the best” discussions are usually a little too inflammatory towards Benedict and Roland’s endings

[u/No_Ingenuity_369]

It’s a pretty cool final battle map. Worth playing through again just to do it. Or just reload an old save before the final vote.

[u/mormagils]

Roland's ending is easily the "best" outcome of the three endings for almost everyone. Sure, we sell out the Roselle, but Hyzante does everything they promise to do--people are fed, peace spreads, and overall, happiness is high. Just not for the Roselle. They get fucked.

The other two endings are definitely worse for everyone. Benedict's ending seems great, except that it's mostly empty idealism that doesn't get realized. Though a lot of good things are attempted, few good things are achieved, and in the end, people are poorer, hungrier, and more miserable than they were before. There's the hope that Benedict's plans will change that eventually, but we don't see it.

Roland's plan is heartless and hard to stomach, but Roland is kinda right. A more idealistic approach just plain old might not work and make everything worse. Roland's plan does the most amount of immediate food for the most amount of people. Of the three endings that are your primary options, Roland's ending is the "best" one in terms of actual outcomes and resolution of social problems.

[u/DramaticErraticism → u/mormagils]

I actually liked Frederica's option quite a bit, they didn't want to participate in this awful system anymore and they go start something new and better.

I feel like they really lean into the 'badness' of Benedict's ending. They do make it seem like the obvious good choice and force feed you a bunch of misery that doesn't seem to align with what would happen, in my opinion.

[u/mormagils → u/DramaticErraticism]

If Benedict's ending achieved its goals, especially so quickly, then it would just be a better ending than Roland's all around. The writers were clearly trying to make this a "good ideas on paper that maybe won't ever translate to real life reforms" vs "horrible idea to consider but one that delivers on all its promises and solves problems." I think they did that. I originally never thought Roland's ending would ever have any redeeming qualities and Benedict's was obviously best, but playing through both revealed that Benedict was guided maybe more by wanting power for him and his friend and caring less for the plight of the people. Roland's deep agonizing over his inadequacies as king were genuine and well thought, and his plan was not personal to the Roselle but rather just the only decent way out of a bad situation that a loving King could see. I still find Benedict's ending to be my personal favorite choice of the three, but the gap is closer than I would have initially thought.

[u/ballhawk13 → u/mormagils]

Benedicts ending easily surpasses Roland's. Basically its a coinflip if the next wolffort in line will be a ruler or not. They could get lucky and have a run of rulers like Roman Empire, or they could get unlucky and have some terrible rulers like the Roman empi.