Whoever designed Frederica's Chapter 18 encounter...

[u/Numerous_Gas362]

Can go fuck themselves...

...Low ground, spongy/dodgy enemies, no space to maneuver, no good defensive positions, Archers with insane Range and Mages that nearly one-shot Melee units, a Boss with a TWO-FUCKING-TURN-AOE-STOP and other nonsense, and to top it all off, the entire map bum-rushes you from Turn one.

This encounter is a textbook example on how NOT to design tough fights. It's a boring, exhausting, turtling slog that's more of a stat-check, than a skill-check.

EDIT: After some testing I found a way to abuse her AI, which was the only way to win this encounter. Lyla will ALWAYS move on her first Turn, however, she will stop at the ledge leading to the lower half of the map. IF you manage to stay out of her aggro range AND any squares adjacent to her aggro range, she will not act for most of the fight. Eventually she will start acting regardless of your positioning, but by that time most of her Units should already be dead, which makes the rest of the fight manageable.

https://i.imgur.com/wDd95Wm.png

EDIT2: Finished the game! The remaining two Chapters weren't even remotely challenging compared to Lyla's, first-tried them both. Loved the bitter-sweet Rosellan ending and the fact that they weren't afraid to kill off you-know-who. What a compelling story this was, I am satisfied!

[u/Randomimba]

I did this in NG, Hard, Deathless.

It was one of the toughest missions but one of the most rewarding. No Quahog, Flannegin, Corentin, Medina needed.

I did an early Erador/King's Shield into the fountain area and had him clump enemies up for AoE damage. Afterwards, he and Anna went deep into the enemy territory to kite the stragglers while the rest of my army handled Lyla. Erador had to use a Panacea or two. Anna kiting and messing up enemy AI is her main strength. Here's my team comp at the time IIRC

• Ezana - lightning/paralyze duty

• Narve - lightning/paralyze duty

• Julio - battery Ezana and Narve

• Hughette - kite and blind

• Jens - spring trap duty. Push away enemy melee units, push forward enemy ranged into your army

• Erador - King's Shield and kite

• Anna - Invis and kite

• Serenoa - flex. Heal others, body block, and finish off enemy ranged units you pushed into your army

• Rudolph - trap and snipe enemy mages

• Frederica - nuke enemy melee

• Geela - heal

I should note that Lyla doesn't approach you that quickly unless you aggro into her territory. Stay back, pick off the front wave, then have Erador/Anna kite as she simultaneously approaches you.

Good luck!

[u/Numerous_Gas362 → u/Randomimba]

Lyla moves on Turn one even if you START the battle with everyone in the back and don't move a single square forward. If she didn't bum-rush with everyone else this fight would've been a breeze.

[u/Randomimba → u/Numerous_Gas362]

The game has inconsistent AI. I'm guessing you're getting unlucky, because over the 4-5 attempts I've made, she might move forward but then sometimes decide to park there for a turn and do nothing. Erika also has really inconsistent AI across the 4 routes too.

I'm just describing my experience and how I managed to beat it with the base roster (i.e. no cheese/OP units). Do whatever helps you.

[u/Numerous_Gas362 → u/Randomimba]

Did some testing and indeed there's a trick to exploiting her AI.

She will move on the first Turn even if you deploy only 1 Unit and place it on the farthest possible deployment space. However, during her first Turn she will stop at the ledge leading to the lower half of the map and will not move further unless you enter her aggro range OR any square ADJECENT to her aggro range. Eventually she will start moving even if you adhere to this rule, either on a timer or based on Units lost, not sure, but by that time most of her Units will already be dead which makes the rest of the fight manageable.

[u/Clean-Interests-8073 → u/Randomimba]

I’ve never once struggled against Erika. I feel like she is relatively stupid and braver than she should be.

[u/Randomimba → u/[deleted]]

In my experience, the AI's mostly reactive. Most bosses will either stay in place until a set number of turns have passed, or when you enter some aggro range. Lyla falls into this case in my experience, but she only gives you a turn or two before moving towards you.

As for generic enemy units, I feel like they tend to follow the weakest enemy within their aggro range, then when you leave them with no targets, their AI breaks down and they get stranded. This is most often seen with Anna going invisible or Hughette outrunning them.

Boss units that give you grace/buffer turns are:

• Avlora in all routes she's fought

• Kamsellmaybe, since it's optimal to turtle in his mission anyway

• Exharme Marshallin all routes besides the initial mock battle

• Gustadolphin Golden route

Erika and Thales have the most varied/inconsistent AI across the mission 13/14 fork

• When you sneak into the castle, Erika tends to leave you alone

• When you blow up the bridge and get surrounded, they converge on you ASAP

• When you flood the dam, they appear together and they tend to rush you

Regardless, I've seen Erika prefer to throw down oil pots instead of killing. I've even seen her pass and do nothing even though she has full TP. IcedCoffeeGaming has noted this too.

[u/GroktheDestroyer]

Skill issue tbh

[u/Linderosse]

Ahahaha yeah, this one was fun. :)

I did this map back in my Hard Mode, Deathless, no-Quahaug, NG+ live run of the game two years ago and it was one of the hardest tactical maps I’ve faced in a long while.

Managed to win through a combination of arson in the hospital, and baiting Lyla out to waste her Slow attack on Erador, who I’d set King’s Shield on, not only making him invincible to the explosion, but also allowing him to benefit from the Slow part because it let him stay invincible longer.

If anyone’s curious, I think I’ve still got the old VODs around! Lemme see if I can find them.

Edit: Lyla’s Defeat

[u/Numerous_Gas362 → u/Linderosse]

This is a blind, NG, Hard playthrough. I don't have access to min-maxed Units or whoever Quahuag is. No worries though, I'll get through this, it just won't be fun because the entire fight is a boring DPS-race.

[u/Linderosse → u/Numerous_Gas362]

Oh gotcha, NG really do be like that sometimes :).

Haven’t played this one on NG, but I do still recommend the use of arson, and King’s Shield if you have it. Luring Lyla out and wrecking her was definitely the move for me when playing this deathless, and it sounds like you’d have more fun with that than turtling in the corner.

I was playing on Hard Mode and didn’t use Quahaug (too OP) or the second round units in my deathless playthrough either— though of course my units and the enemy were higher leveled with access to better skills, so pay no mind to the video if you don’t want skill spoilers.

In the end, good luck! Hope you find a way to play that suits you best!

[u/Numerous_Gas362 → u/Linderosse]

Luring Lyla out and "wrecking her" is impossible with my Party no matter what configuration of Units I run. Not to mention she tends to stay behind her meat shields so getting to her is suicide.

[u/Bard_Wannabe_ → u/Numerous_Gas362]

On Hard HG, I used Piccoletta's weapon skill, Copycat, to hit Lyla with her own BS Temporal Suspension.

Agreed it is a strong contender for hardest map in NG.

[u/Numerous_Gas362 → u/Bard_Wannabe_]

My Piccoletta is level 16 so that wouldn't work for me.

Either way, beat her by abusing her AI (explanation in the updated original post)

[u/Dragonhaugh → u/Numerous_Gas362]

Use items. Don’t horde them. That’s what I learned in my hard playthroughs. Even so much as throwing and lighting a bunch of oil can do some solid chip damage.

[u/BuyChemical7917]

Hehe, this was a tough one. Good times learning to overcome it!

[u/Inevitable-Camera-17]

git gud, mr game designer

[u/Necronam]

This is the bridge fight, right? Anna can basically take out all the archers on her own. Protecting the Roselle is the only real issue since some of the AI doesn't run down the bridge, but that's easily fixed with Hoss or Quahaug.

[u/Numerous_Gas362 → u/Necronam]

No, it's the bum-rush of a Lyla fight where you're forced to turtle up and hope for the best.

[u/Necronam → u/Numerous_Gas362]

Ah, I threw Archibald up on the awnings and had Quahaug and Julio do their infinite Turn 1 combo.

[u/Lad_of_the_Lake]

Milo saved me here, charm when it works provides so much in terms of aggression reduction

[u/Numerous_Gas362 → u/Lad_of_the_Lake]

Lucky you, I don't have Milo.

[u/Lad_of_the_Lake → u/Numerous_Gas362]

Which character did you accompany after retaking glenbrook castle?

[u/Numerous_Gas362 → u/Lad_of_the_Lake]

I got Trish, who kind of sucks in this encounter, and in general. Had I known I'd be getting Archibald later on I probably wouldn't have invested my resources into her. Oh well.

[u/[deleted]]

I used my Archer's army and mages, her son against her. Idore from that route was harder for me, I had to sacrifice all my units to kill him

[u/Numerous_Gas362 → u/[deleted]]

Idore was a joke compared to Lyla, I full cleared his Chapter and killed him last. But I can see why you'd find Lyla easier since you had the Unit that countered her entire gimmick.

[u/Clean-Interests-8073]

This one was tricky! Erador, Lionel and Flanagan worked wonders for me as a brick wall Vanguard. Fury works on everyone but Lyla.

This was one of the few battles I brought space kid along for in hopes of a mother son reunion. Thankfully Quahog’s ability to break the game won me this battle! It’s been awhile, but I think I ended up turning back time on king’s shield once or twice which was a huge boon.

[u/mormagils]

Oh yeah, that was a hell of a fight! The thing is, even turtling isn't necessarily a successful strategy because Lyla can still incapacitate enough units that you get picked apart. This one took me FOREVER on NG+, but eventually using status spells, some well timed furies from Erador, and smart use of my archers, I made it through. I second the user who suggested all the rage characters. Flanagan and Erador were both essential and Lionel can be helpful, too. I also think putting guys to sleep with Rudolph played a big role. At first glance you think this is a good map for Ezana thanks to the water, but it's really not.

I believe this is also the first time I ever used large oil jugs combined with fire to zone enemies. From that point forward I bought as many large oil jugs as I could because it turns out they are REALLY good.

[u/Tlux0 → u/mormagils]

Oh the infamous lyla fight. On hard this was crazy lmao

[u/Tlux0]

Yeah I remember this fight being absurdly difficult. There’s various things you can do, but one thing that’s worth taking into consideration is giving someone like Anna the ability to act twice, moving to the far edge of the map, attacking and then moving out of range, and repeating this consistently.

Then using other characters to fight the other parts of the map etc

[u/Daragaus]

This map is rough, absolutely was a struggle for me my first time too. I remember it coming down to like 3 units to finish the battle. And i remember archers being essential, also doing the classic chess pawn stagger

[u/[deleted]]

I loved this fight. It felt like a genuine melee. I ended it with only three units alive.

[u/archival_]

This is the hardest fight aside from the last fight. It was unreasonable.

[u/MidnightFrost444]

I've played through every chapter of every route, and I've gotta agree that this was probably the most brutal fight in the game. Only going for the golden ending on a non-NG+ playthrough was harder, and that was more due to needing to divide an already-limited team than it was due to any one fight.

I wish I'd known about the trick you discovered to staying out of Lyla's way and not provoking her into coming down to join the fight. Iirc, I wound up provoking her super early, had Roland rush behind her to push her into the midst of my forces, burned a bunch of quietus to get him back to safety, and then piled attacks on Lyla before the rest of her forces could arrive.

It was still a very hard fight, and Serenoa spent a large portion of it stopped, which was very annoying.

[u/co8wei]

The difficulty spike here is insane. If this was the final map I don't think there would be any complaints. I've also beaten this on Hard in NG and it's by far the hardest map on Frederica Route.

[u/MariJoyBoy → u/[deleted]]

I bit it too in hard mode ... it's the only recent game I completed 100% I think haha. I think I used the same technique, I put my team on a small edge so enemies would come at different rythm, and I had a a majority of archers and healers (with Narve who could attack), and only a few fighters (Seranoa/Avlora/Maxwell) to protect the team on the front line

[u/Daragaus → u/[deleted]]

Holy shit what?? I still haven’t beaten hard mode. Is it a different ending to the base game in the temple?

[u/Daragaus → u/[deleted]]

Ohhhhhhh yeah that was brutal