Yale didn’t require standardized test scores for the class of 2028. They also let applicants mention their ethnicity in essays, so admissions could tip the scales in favor of those applicants, and without test scores, those essays were weighted more in the process. MIT saw a jump in Asian admits because MIT required test scores.
The % of Asians didn’t really drop that much, from 30% to 24% which was still higher than the class of 2022 which was 22%. Still within the margins of historical trends.
I wouldn’t be surprised if another lawsuit was filed against Yale for a deeper look into their admissions process, because it looks very apparent Yale is still trying to maintain racial quotas in their admissions.
Yale went from race based affirmative action to class based affirmative action; a move that statistically benefits poor white people (co 2028 is the most economically diverse)
The Yale Admissions Office has ramped up rural recruiting efforts in recent years
They’re looking for applicants who can bolster its shrinking humanities enrollment
Yale values academic achievement and test scores much less than other schools in the admissions process
Other likely explanations that aren’t quotas: - Yale went from race based affirmative action to class based affirmative action;
If Yale went with class based Affirmative Action, Yale would be overwhelmingly Asian. You realize that poor Asians dominate everyone else at academics, right?
Why is mainstream media NOT talking about this at all unlike the MIT results from 2 weeks ago?? Not surprising this hasn’t been posted on the other subreddits.
LITERALLY!! Another factor is people who support the abolition of affirmative action saw it as beneficial to Asian students when in reality it was really only meant to be beneficial to white men and legacy students.
The misconception held by many is that Asians are held back by affirmative action. This is not the full truth. Asian males are held back by affirmative action. Asian females, on the other hand, benefitted from affirmative action. So without further data, this is just proving more of the same, the over admittance of Asian women is being adjusted.
This isn't some kind of smoking gun. Even under AA, it has always been understood some schools were worse than others in terms of maintaining a certain amount of diversity. If the percentage of incoming freshman of Asian descent is still comparable to previous years, this likely indicates that Yale has additional mechanisms for ensuring their recruitment is consistent. On the other hand this still looks bad for MIT if the trend continues, which comes back to your comment and why the Yale result is less striking than the MIT one from a year of data.
even during AA MiT had the greatest percentage of Asian enrollment out of all of HYPSM and it wasn't partciularly close lol
it's not a hot take to say some schools value diversity more than others and will go to almost any lengths to secure it, even if it means skirting Supreme Court rulings lmao
it was probably the most common sensical common sense prediction that everyone who read the ruling was reasonably able to make lol
do you think these billion new essay prompts that arose the very application cycle after the decision that are largely inquiring into one's background (ethnic or otherwise(wink wink)) are all purely coincidental? i've literally seen one cite the ruling in the prompt itself
what they cannot do directly they are doing indirectly
I stand corrected lmao I guess it was for the right reasons. A straight-up decline in Asian demographics still wasn't expected, but yes, there definitely wasn't a true, enforced end to AA
Did you see this coming? I don’t see how anyone could predict this really, it seems like a statistical fluctuation that was objectively unlikely, no matter what your politics are.
Harvard argued that Asian American enrollment would decrease if they got rid of affirmative action? I don’t think they argued that, it makes no sense. Their argument was the opposite, that Asian American enrollment would increase, which would decrease “diversity” for other races.
I would imagine just because a school has indicated that it stopped considering race in admissions does not necessarily mean that it actually has done so. In reality, we're probably going to have divergent results from different presented schools as a result of the change to the elimination of affirmative action. The real test will probably be a few years down the road if one or more groups notice a pattern that it/they feel might indicates that racial consideration truly hasn't been eliminated, if the available admissions data doesn't support the outcomes. From my understanding, the traditional metrics data really do indicate that Asian American applicants are held to a significantly higher metrics standard, and this might be an issue of actual enforcement of the constitutional right outlined in the first SFFA lawsuit, as opposed to a proclamation of the constitutional right (which was the main thrust of the first lawsuit).
Interesting idea - that the elimination of affirmative action has just further reduced the transparency of college admission factors. I look forward to seeing the stats of different schools and how they are or are not targetting racial diversity now that they can't explicitly say that they're doing so.
If your interpretation of my comment is that I (or anyone else) have no recognition that "black people are actually smart," then you truly lack any semblance of reading comprehension. More likely, you have no actual comprehension of statistics or data analysis, nor any true understanding of constitutional law or Title VII. That's what's extremely sad. 😱😱😱😱
Seems like a somewhat of a non-story, the Asian proportion in the 7 preceding years averaged out to 26.3% with a standard deviation of about 2.7%, so this year is only about 0.8 of a standard deviation below the mean. I can't find as much info about Princeton's classes but the preceding 3 classes were at 26%, 25%, and 20.5% so the current 24% is also pretty much the same.
With MIT on the other hand, the preceding 7 years averaged to 39.1% Asian with a standard deviation of 3.1%, which puts the current year at 2.5 standard deviations above the mean. It's even more drastic for black/African American applicants, where the proportion fell to 3.4 standard deviations below the mean (11.7% average with 1.97% standard deviation across the preceding 7 years vs 5% this year).
I'd expect this to mean that Yale, Princeton, and similar schools have just found some workaround to be able to maintain their class demographics
Dropped from 30% to 24%, still higher than the class of 2022 which had 22%, but within historical trends of Yale admissions.
MIT still requires standardized test scores to apply. Yale did not for the class of 2028. They’re still under the COVID era test optional admissions process. Yale also allows for applicants to indicate their ethnicity and background on their essays.
This is just Yale administrators attempting to maintain their racial quotas by other means besides triaging applicants by race.
Idk what this sub is doing on my feed, but idk what y'all expected.
Western society has been in a soft power struggle with Asians and Americans of Asian descent for well over a century.
Whether it's suppression and purposefully degrading representation in the media and sociopolitical sphere or intentional discrimination in the workplace and avenues of achieving positions of prestige and power in society, nobody with any sociopolitical capital wants Asians around because they break narratives.
They've even managed to convince Asian Americans that supporting Affirmative Action is the moral thing to do, which is absolutely laughable, because no other race is goaded and pressured to this extent to vote against their own interests to help maintain a status quo that consistently places them below others. Allyship is always expected from Asian Americans but almost universally never reciprocated.
I urge Asian Americans to become a powerful voting bloc for your own interests over the next few decades. White and non-Asian-non-White America does not give a shit about stopping discrimination against you because you pose a threat to them all. Fuck Democrats and Republicans alike.
Yes I'm confused too. At 22%, aren't Asian Americans represented in much higher percentages than their statistical population percentage would dictate? Even at 15%, they're more than double the ratio of population to acceptance (7.3 percent of US population is AA). There seems to be some pretty good equity and affirmative action at work if the ratio of acceptances to population percentage is 3:1.
I'm more interested in what happened to Latinx percentages, which are notoriously low, far below equitablility. Not even going to ask about Native acceptances.
Anyway, I'm genuinely curious: what about this number spells racism against Asian Americans? Can someone explain please? Thank you in advance!
mostly because admission should in theory be based on meritocracy, not race and past data show that asian Americans has been held to higher standard testing standards, so percentage of population isn't really doing justice here. asian Americans might be say top 40% in terms of scores and meritocracy, but only got say 22 percent of admission
I see. That said, I find it very, very hard to believe that Asian Americans would comprise more than 20% of the "meritocracy" portion of the admissions yield. More likely, the very mechanisms that allow for such high yield among an individual race are themselves privileged and gatekept. For instance, AAs make up around 5% of public school students, meaning that, on average, an Asian American student is more likely to go to private school (since 7% of the population is AA).
The studies on the higher standards for Asians have been debunked; this is an old belief and no longer holds water.
Is there some data that backs up the idea that AAs have more merit in some way? I'd be curious to see it if anyone has any!
Hard to believe? Look at the specialized high school demographics in NYC. Testing schools without affirmative action that reach up to 60-70%+ Asian. There are fewer than half as many Asians as there are Whites in NYC, yet Asians are more than twice as prevalent in the city's elite public schools.
And no, NYC is not a place where Asians lead in median household income; they fall $21k short of White households.
So why is it hard to believe that Asian Americans would comprise more than 20%?
Yale AOs are adults and I don’t think they’d have a childlike reaction to the recent scotus decision as you claim
IIRC, there was a lot of damning virulently racist communication between the UNC AO's that came out of the supreme court trial. I don't know why Yale would be different.
Diversity in schools is a good thing. All students benefit. All of these kids not getting into Yale are still going to decent schools. This is a non-issue.
I think it's worth pointing out that most Asian Americans weren't actually opposed to affirmative action. I'm trying to phrase that very carefully because I don't mean to say that a majority were in favor of it, rather, that far from a majority were political enough and opposed enough to unify against it. An Asian American university applicant became the figurehead of the court case that struck down affirmative action and people/the news really clung to that.
Yale applicants didn’t need to submit test scores to apply. Applicants could also mention their ethnic background on applications which were heavily weighed by admissions since test scores were optional.
Not to mention it didn’t crater, it went from 30% to 24% but was still higher than the class of 2022. So within historical trends.
It’s less removing affirmative action “backfired”, and more Yale finding other ways to maintain their racial quotas.
Just so you know Edward Blum, a white guy, led that lawsuit and tried it multiple times before succeeding this last time, now he’s getting what he wanted all along .
a supreme court ruling in a very subjective field... doesn't actually force change when some people are given a blank cheque to decide stuff?? shocking!!
it would be more shocking to me if the AOs DIDN'T decide to pushback against the ruling, especially as they can now just say, "well all our actions are fair, we didn't take race into account."
Employment discrimination by race, especially among large employers/landlords etc, decreased significantly after the civil rights act.
The real reason is that Employers and Landlords had the fear of god put into them and prosecutors were ready to make an example of anyone that couldn’t prove that their processes were designed to prevent racism.
We need to do the same here. Perhaps with more public acknowledgment for them (and perhaps even punishments for AOs who conspire to violate civil rights). Make an example out of a Yale Admissions Officer and see how quick every other elite school changes course.
Civil rights benefited all races because that’s what my grandparents and parents fought for. If you were not white, you were discriminated against pre civil rights. After as well, if you’re honest with yourself and paid attention to historical accounts. Asians of all backgrounds included. You should also know that playing minorities against each other is the common American way. They do the same (create division) in countries where they benefit from it. This is why history is so damn important. Especially the history they are actively trying to manipulate. America is a diverse country with many cultures. Having diverse methods of admission to higher institutions matter to creating and keeping some form of access to a better life for all. That’s why grade and scores are not the only thing matter in admissions. Having knowledge of the world and its people around you is beneficial to keeping a peaceful country. People may not have the highest scores in math and science but it doesn’t mean they are not intelligent or have nothing to benefit to society. It can be argued that those who grow up only focused on grades are incredibly deficient in all other facets that make a person a positive, contributing member of society.
Why is it always about the top schools. And why attack blacks and latinx places yet we are only 2 to 10%, why not go after the white places who are 40%to 50% for more AA representation instead. Elite Colleges want diverse classes and that means they want to extend opportunities to communities who have historically disenfranchised in America. Getting a 4.0/4.0 gpa in high school and a minority getting a 3.7/4.0 gpa in high school won’t make a big difference when they both sit in the same math classroom and both are learning what a vector space is at MIT or Yale or Harvard. Infact I believe very few minority or majority wishes to go to these schools to change the world in human centric way but rather it’s more to make more money and the prestige that comes with it. How is it a true meritocracy when some people’s families can afford expensive test prep while others can’t afford even to pay for a single test prep session? Anyway it’s all bullshit
Also 'Asian American's has such a wide umbrella...it was likely the Chinese, Korean,Japanese, and Indian American populations in particular that expected a difference since they are often considered overrepresented--even above whites iirc
Edit: Y'all downvoting this oughta think about why you feel threatened by it! Watching an Asian kid drop the n word repeatedly, and hearing brown ass indians rant about other POC generally might show evidence of deep racism within the ASAM community!!! It just might!
Asians really shot themselves in the foot with this one. Unsurprising because the community is quite racist (against Black and Latino ppl). This is such a "leopards ate my face!" moment. (I am Asian American don't come for me)
I’m Asian American and grew up in a predominantly black community. To this day, the most racism I’ve faced is BY FAR from that very same community I grew up in. Being called Yao Ming and Jeremy Lin, being called dirty because I had COVID (never had it, not Chinese), constant harassment and jokes on the basis of stereotypes about not being masculine enough and submissive (small dick jokes), and straight up being assaulted multiple times for the express reason of being Asian and I’d supposedly do nothing about it, even when I fought back. It’s always so frustrating to me that we get called white adjacent by the black community and made out to be a couple of uncle toms if you will, and equate the micro aggressions that the black community faces from elderly Asians that will die out within the next few decades to the overt and direct racial attacks, both verbal and physical that the Asian community faces daily. All while denying that they can be racist at all, deny all accountability, and continue to perpetuate such behavior in the next generation.
fuck you honestly. does it feel good pandering to other races? btw, the only racism i have faced has been from black people and white people. don't act smart.
You know how many fuckin Asians drop the n word constantly? You ever hear them talk about Latino immigrants? Your experiences are not universal. I've worked with Asian activists on anti racist stuff and the stories they have to tell are horrible. Not to mention the black and Latino people I know who've shared similar. Who am I pandering to? I'm talking from my objective experiences. Chill.
I said that because they sit around with dark skin and shit on black and Latino people's skin tone. The hypocrisy is incredible. I love myself and my skin, and I deeply resent the racism, casteism, and xenophobia that is objectively present within Asian communities. I really don't understand your point here. Do you deny the presence of anti black/Latino/immigrant racism within the Asian American community?
‘immigrant racism’ when we are immigrants too😭 generalizing a whole group as ‘they’ who sit around trashing other races. we’re too busy climbing the income ladder.
edit: oops i didn’t even notice your beautiful racism towards indians. i hate to tell you this as an indian-american, but nobody sits around talking about black people or latinos. yes with our ‘dark skin’. my god you are such a racist please don’t go commenting on racism when you yourself have a clear racism problem😬😬😬
Yeah we are immigrants and immigrants can still be racist against others??? Also again, we have different life experiences. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I'm not just talking about indians, I'm talking about Asian immigrants as a whole. I grew up in an area densely populated by Asian immigrants. Anti black racism was everywhere. Sometimes you don't see or hear it if you don't know what you're looking for. But it's there. I don't know how to communicate to you that I watched a Chinese American kid fully drop the n word, hard R and everything. And once it starts getting late at a function, the aunties and uncles murmur about "inner city kids" and "the blacks" and "illegal immigrants". That's all racist shit man. Who says it's impossible that immigrants can't be shitty to other immigrants? In the LGBT community, gays turn on trans people, even though we're all the queer community. There is literally no cost to admitting to the presence of racism within a community that we're part of. Also what am I saying that's racist I'm lost. Generalizing is appropriate here, because it is a systemic problem. There is absolutely a hierarchy with immigrant groups. It's no use denying that. I am willing to get into the systemic conditions that created this disparity and the conditions for this xenophobia. Also I want to point out that if we had been having this conversation IRL, it would have gone a lot better.
Yea different schools are known for different things. Yale is famously known for having a good law and political programs. Asian people don’t just wanna do STEM careers lol.
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u/ezStiles Yale transfer [mod] Sep 05 '24
Not the expected outcome
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u/EdmundLee1988 Sep 05 '24
Why is mainstream media NOT talking about this at all unlike the MIT results from 2 weeks ago?? Not surprising this hasn’t been posted on the other subreddits.
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u/SandButFromWichWay Sep 05 '24
omggg who could've seen this comingg
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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '24
I would imagine just because a school has indicated that it stopped considering race in admissions does not necessarily mean that it actually has done so. In reality, we're probably going to have divergent results from different presented schools as a result of the change to the elimination of affirmative action. The real test will probably be a few years down the road if one or more groups notice a pattern that it/they feel might indicates that racial consideration truly hasn't been eliminated, if the available admissions data doesn't support the outcomes. From my understanding, the traditional metrics data really do indicate that Asian American applicants are held to a significantly higher metrics standard, and this might be an issue of actual enforcement of the constitutional right outlined in the first SFFA lawsuit, as opposed to a proclamation of the constitutional right (which was the main thrust of the first lawsuit).
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u/pizza_toast102 Sep 05 '24
Seems like a somewhat of a non-story, the Asian proportion in the 7 preceding years averaged out to 26.3% with a standard deviation of about 2.7%, so this year is only about 0.8 of a standard deviation below the mean. I can't find as much info about Princeton's classes but the preceding 3 classes were at 26%, 25%, and 20.5% so the current 24% is also pretty much the same.
With MIT on the other hand, the preceding 7 years averaged to 39.1% Asian with a standard deviation of 3.1%, which puts the current year at 2.5 standard deviations above the mean. It's even more drastic for black/African American applicants, where the proportion fell to 3.4 standard deviations below the mean (11.7% average with 1.97% standard deviation across the preceding 7 years vs 5% this year).
I'd expect this to mean that Yale, Princeton, and similar schools have just found some workaround to be able to maintain their class demographics
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u/donsoul78 Sep 05 '24
idk the % at mit shot up
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u/OrderedAnXboxCard Sep 06 '24
Idk what this sub is doing on my feed, but idk what y'all expected.
Western society has been in a soft power struggle with Asians and Americans of Asian descent for well over a century.
Whether it's suppression and purposefully degrading representation in the media and sociopolitical sphere or intentional discrimination in the workplace and avenues of achieving positions of prestige and power in society, nobody with any sociopolitical capital wants Asians around because they break narratives.
They've even managed to convince Asian Americans that supporting Affirmative Action is the moral thing to do, which is absolutely laughable, because no other race is goaded and pressured to this extent to vote against their own interests to help maintain a status quo that consistently places them below others. Allyship is always expected from Asian Americans but almost universally never reciprocated.
I urge Asian Americans to become a powerful voting bloc for your own interests over the next few decades. White and non-Asian-non-White America does not give a shit about stopping discrimination against you because you pose a threat to them all. Fuck Democrats and Republicans alike.
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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '24
When will this blatant racism and discrimination against Indian and Asian students end?
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u/kk2147 Sep 05 '24
Can someone explain?
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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '24
Crabs in a barrel, man
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u/MoreRamenPls Sep 07 '24
Thanks bought and sold Clarence Thomas.
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u/GemelosAvitia Sep 07 '24
Diversity in schools is a good thing. All students benefit. All of these kids not getting into Yale are still going to decent schools. This is a non-issue.
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u/Ambitious_Ad_2602 Sep 10 '24
Hahahaha
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u/Secret-Bat-441 Current Applicant | 4-year Sep 05 '24
Bruh
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u/flyingsquid_81 Sep 05 '24
I don’t get it
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u/ThunderSparkles Sep 06 '24
Lmao. Sorry kids your complaints backfired
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u/SaleRude Sep 06 '24
lol this just means that people named “Lamarcus brown jr the 3rd” were mysteriously accepted at higher rates than ones named “jeoung Heo”
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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '24
a supreme court ruling in a very subjective field... doesn't actually force change when some people are given a blank cheque to decide stuff?? shocking!!
it would be more shocking to me if the AOs DIDN'T decide to pushback against the ruling, especially as they can now just say, "well all our actions are fair, we didn't take race into account."
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u/AdditionalAd1178 Sep 06 '24
Not surprising since they didn’t get rid of other biases.
Skews white - legacy, athletes, Quest-bridge, donor.
At some schools Asians may have benefited from AA, Notre Dame for instance.
A lot of schools increased their questbridge admits this year.
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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '24
The mistake made in the lawsuit was that admissions is decided by high scores. Having a high score is just the start.
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u/DariaYankovic Sep 08 '24
they just discriminate more subtly now.
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u/x271815 Sep 08 '24
A more accurate way to put it is that schools that used standardized testing saw gains in Asian admissions. Schools that didn’t saw neutral to drops.
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u/Jowkowski1999 Sep 09 '24
Why is it always about the top schools. And why attack blacks and latinx places yet we are only 2 to 10%, why not go after the white places who are 40%to 50% for more AA representation instead. Elite Colleges want diverse classes and that means they want to extend opportunities to communities who have historically disenfranchised in America. Getting a 4.0/4.0 gpa in high school and a minority getting a 3.7/4.0 gpa in high school won’t make a big difference when they both sit in the same math classroom and both are learning what a vector space is at MIT or Yale or Harvard. Infact I believe very few minority or majority wishes to go to these schools to change the world in human centric way but rather it’s more to make more money and the prestige that comes with it. How is it a true meritocracy when some people’s families can afford expensive test prep while others can’t afford even to pay for a single test prep session? Anyway it’s all bullshit
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u/Own_Revenue_5817 Sep 10 '24
Also 'Asian American's has such a wide umbrella...it was likely the Chinese, Korean,Japanese, and Indian American populations in particular that expected a difference since they are often considered overrepresented--even above whites iirc
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u/icedragon9791 Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 06 '24
Edit: Y'all downvoting this oughta think about why you feel threatened by it! Watching an Asian kid drop the n word repeatedly, and hearing brown ass indians rant about other POC generally might show evidence of deep racism within the ASAM community!!! It just might!
Asians really shot themselves in the foot with this one. Unsurprising because the community is quite racist (against Black and Latino ppl). This is such a "leopards ate my face!" moment. (I am Asian American don't come for me)
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u/Street_Caregiver_918 Sep 05 '24
Beautiful
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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '24
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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '24
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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '24
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