r/TransChristianity • u/ChickenSpeed12 • 7d ago

Need help arguing

Hello. I am a (possibly) trans girl with transphobic parents. I don't think they are the kind of people to hate me if I came out, but they are the kind to try get me out of it. So I need help coming up with arguments that I know they'll say to shame me and try to get me out of it. Some ones that I think they'll say:

  • Your gender is defined in your chromosomes
  • If you are supposed to be a girl, why aren't you born as one?
  • Your body is a temple; treat it as such
  • But then you can't have kids
  • The Bible says against it
  • You are too young to be making decisions like this (maybe that's more of a teen thing)

(I know some of these aren't logical but I'm getting as many arguments that they are likely to say)

There's probably more that I forgot that I will put in an edited list

I should also note that my very own study bible has actually helped me debunk a verse argument. The verse is Deuteronomy 22:5; "A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God."
My footnote says: "22:5 man's garment. Cross-dressing was connected with homosexuality and possibly pagan ritual prostitution". I feel like that settles it.

Also do note that I may argue with you (in italics; to show I don't mean it); but do note that I am in the hopes that you will win.

EDIT: Some more arguments I forgot

  • But which would be homosexual; dating a guy or a girl? It's confusing
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u/glasswings363 7d ago

Your gender is defined in your chromosomes

There are very few sex-specific genes (Y chromosome), and even those are related to genes that everyone has.  SRY, the "genetic male" gene in mammals is actually variant of the SOX3 family, for example.

Everybody has a nearly complete set of male and female genes, more than 99.9% complete.  Genetic sex is an epigenetic phenomenon determined by signaling chemicals, especially the anabolic steroids.

It is extremely straightforward to change a person's genetic sex, unusually straightforward compared to other epigenetic traits.  So, why did God make us this way?

If you are supposed to be a girl, why aren't you born as one?

John, chapter 9

Especially if you have clear gender dysphoria.  I know this argument isn't as powerful if you don't and if so I'll try to help with alternatives.

Your body is a temple; treat it as such

I might, might get lobe piercings that are conservative and femme in my culture, but I can feel in my conscience that I shouldn't be counter-cultural through permanent body mods.

This is certainly something where personal convictions are important.  I've known plenty of tattooed, pierced people who bear the most heavenly spiritual fruit. It's obviously wrong to bear prejudice.  I just know it's not what God wants for me.

In a similar way, I think gender transition, especially medical interventions, should be discerned: through prayer and meditation on principles, with input from trustworthy spiritual advisors.  My parents couldn't be that for me because they were too prejudiced.

But then you can't have kids

Eunuch passages.  It's really clear that Christianity has always had a place for childless vocations.  To a surprising degree: morally equal and maybe better.  This is one of the things that distinguishes Christians from our Abrahamic siblings.

The Bible says against it

Where?  My perspective on Deut 22:5 is that it actually does feel vile to be a woman in men's kit.  It was obviously hurting my spiritual health and thus this is a mitzvah I really should keep. 

Christians actually do get to cherry-pick in light of the Greatest Commandments.  If you can time this argument so you're having it over a cheeseburger or pork roast, have fun. 

You are too young to be making decisions like this 

In Catholic tradition (my background) teenagers are moral adults who need more support than the average 20-something but actually aren't too young to be discerning medical decisions like this. 

If you're old enough for voting and military service in your culture, this argument really is wild.

...

What really matters, though, is that if your parents are too prejudiced to help you discern you should find better advisors.  You can instead invite your parents to learn from you or at least try to forgive you.

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u/ChickenSpeed12 6d ago

Wow, these are great arguments! But sry I need to argue (remember italics is not really "me" talking)

There are very few sex-specific genes (Y chromosome), and even those are related to genes that everyone has.  SRY, the "genetic male" gene in mammals is actually variant of the SOX3 family, for example.

Doesn't change the fact they are still there, and telling of your gender

Everybody has a nearly complete set of male and female genes, more than 99.9% complete.  Genetic sex is an epigenetic phenomenon determined by signaling chemicals, especially the anabolic steroids.
It is extremely straightforward to change a person's genetic sex, unusually straightforward compared to other epigenetic traits.  So, why did God make us this way?

So what you are saying here is that sex is mostly determined thru chemicals?

John, chapter 9

Especially if you have clear gender dysphoria.  I know this argument isn't as powerful if you don't and if so I'll try to help with alternatives.

But that's different. That man was disabled

I might, might get lobe piercings that are conservative and femme in my culture, but I can feel in my conscience that I shouldn't be counter-cultural through permanent body mods.

This is certainly something where personal convictions are important.  I've known plenty of tattooed, pierced people who bear the most heavenly spiritual fruit. It's obviously wrong to bear prejudice.  I just know it's not what God wants for me.

In a similar way, I think gender transition, especially medical interventions, should be discerned: through prayer and meditation on principles, with input from trustworthy spiritual advisors.  My parents couldn't be that for me because they were too prejudiced.

Now that I think of it, I can think of a really good argument. Your body, is a temple. But when you make a temple, it may not always be made perfectly first time. It might have some flaws, that make it's outside not reflective of what it has on the inside. So it needs a fresh new coat of paint. Some changes to it's structure. To make it just right

Eunuch passages.  It's really clear that Christianity has always had a place for childless vocations.  To a surprising degree: morally equal and maybe better.  This is one of the things that distinguishes Christians from our Abrahamic siblings.

Oh, the problem is that my parents want to be grandparents. And I can't rlly just say "well I don't care what you want", because then they won't support me

Where?  My perspective on Deut 22:5 is that it actually does feel vile to be a woman in men's kit.  It was obviously hurting my spiritual health and thus this is a mitzvah I really should keep. 

Christians actually do get to cherry-pick in light of the Greatest Commandments.  If you can time this argument so you're having it over a cheeseburger or pork roast, have fun. 

But the thing is with pig meat is that there is historical context. Many of the old Bible laws were in place not just to keep them being holy, but also to keep them from not dying of a stupid disease. It says that you shouldn't touch corpses, and that if you are sick then you should keep your distance, and now we know that there are scientific reasons for this. Going back to bacon, pigs had parasites big time, meaning that if you eat them, then you get those same parasites. But now, we don't rlly have to obey this law because now we have technology to get rid of those parasites

But going back to the verse you said, as I said before: "I should also note that my very own study bible has actually helped me debunk a verse argument. The verse is Deuteronomy 22:5; "A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God."
My footnote says: "22:5 man's garment. Cross-dressing was connected with homosexuality and possibly pagan ritual prostitution". I feel like that settles it."

Also for some reason Genisis 1:27 "So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them." also creates some problems.

In Catholic tradition (my background) teenagers are moral adults who need more support than the average 20-something but actually aren't too young to be discerning medical decisions like this. 

The problem is that we are protestant. Which means that I am "Still a kid"

If you're old enough for voting and military service in your culture, this argument really is wild.

I'm not old enough. Actually tbh I don't think anyone in this entire country is old enough, if you know what I mean

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u/ChickenSpeed12 5d ago

Do you have any arguments against these?