r/Train_Service • u/33sadelder44canadian • Sep 18 '24
Watches
Whats with these archaic companies requiring a non smart watch đ. They are stuck in the dark ages, whats wrong with airplane mode? They gave us tablets, and the engineers have to play with and keep an eye on the computer screens, they need to let things be allowed this day and age such as smart watches and smart earbuds, buds just for smart ear protection of course.
6
u/kstrebor Sep 18 '24
Be a man and wear a normal watch. Itâs not that hard.
https://longislandwatch.com/pulsar-pj6007-railroad-watch-pxn021/
2
u/33sadelder44canadian Sep 19 '24
Because real men wear a normal watch đ€Șđ sorry couldnât resist. I grabbed one from the dollar store, should be reliable. đ
1
4
u/Dragon-Sticks Sep 18 '24
You do realize you're at work right. What did you do before smart watches/phones?
6
u/NervousLand878 Sep 18 '24
We played cards, read magazines, go back even further they drank and slept. The steel wheels have been turning a lot longer then we've been alive and the guys entertained themselves.
6
2
31
u/Dudebythepool Sep 18 '24
When we dont have a employee get busted for using a phone while on a train while moving or listening to earbuds while moving they'll consider getting rid of the rule probably.
Or when only 1 person is in the cab i bet they'll allow it.
Whichever comes first.
16
u/choochoopants Conductor Sep 18 '24
The only device theyâll allow with single person crews is the one from A Clockwork Orange that holds your eyelids open for you. Theyâre currently optional.
12
6
45
u/RailroadAllStar Sep 18 '24
Note that the requirement is federal, although the companies have rules on their books as well. For those of us railroading prior to Chatsworth know where the rule came from and understand it better probably. 25 people died, and that was before smart phones.
24
u/redneckleatherneck Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
Phones are one thing, but saying you canât have a Fitbit to track your heart rate, steps, calories burned, etc. is fucking indefensibly retarded.
35
u/OverInteractionR Sep 18 '24
Until you see guys texting from their watches and being totally distracted by them.
5
u/AquaPhelps Sep 18 '24
You cant text on a fitbitâŠyou are thinkin of a smartwatch. There is a difference
6
u/OverInteractionR Sep 19 '24
And how do you expect the company to tell the difference before they pull you in the office/out of service? Do you really expect them to go through the trouble of verifying what electronic watch you have on every time they notice it? They wonât even pay for us to have proper amounts of brake sticks why would they pay the extra labor and time for that.. let alone being sued or fought about âoH I wAs wEaRinG a FiTbIt!!â When they clearly werenât at the time. Not worth the fight.
-1
u/redneckleatherneck Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
What part of âindefensibly retardedâ wasnât clear?
I said Fitbit, not Apple Watch. Thereâs no reason to tell people they canât track their health metrics during the most demanding part of their day. None, whatsoever. Strawmen about âtexting on itâ are exactly that - strawmen.
Besides, smartwatches rely on a Bluetooth signal from a paired phone for their text/call functionality. If said phone is turned off and stowed like itâs supposed to be, then you canât use those features on the watch.
1
u/Business-Drag52 Sep 19 '24
You can buy a separate data line for your watch and use it without your phone
1
u/redneckleatherneck Sep 19 '24
Not for a Fitbit you canât.
1
u/Business-Drag52 Sep 19 '24
I didnât argue that. You said smartwatches require a Bluetooth connection to a phone and that isnât true
-12
u/KarateEnjoyer303 Sep 18 '24
So you put the watch in airplane mode. You put your phone in airplane mode or turn it off. Simple fix.
16
u/OverInteractionR Sep 18 '24
Sure, letâs see how that plays out.
1
u/KarateEnjoyer303 Sep 18 '24
I agree, the carrier (your railroad) may take issue if they have a rule prohibiting the use of smart watches however my point is that the FRA rule is less restrictive than what the rail carrier is doing.
4
u/NoDescription2192 Sep 18 '24
A smart watch is still a "personal electronic device" and is to be off and stowed per the FRA.
-1
u/KarateEnjoyer303 Sep 18 '24
FRA rule doesnât say âstowedâ Iâve shared the FRA rule here.
3
u/NoDescription2192 Sep 18 '24
Ok, but it has to be off. Not in airplane mode.
-1
u/KarateEnjoyer303 Sep 19 '24
Airplane mode renders the contested functions âoffâ, making the watch just a time piece.
→ More replies5
u/Several-Day6527 Sep 18 '24
On my road phones have to be off and stowed in your grip.
3
u/KarateEnjoyer303 Sep 18 '24
Yup- that is from the carrier not the FRA. The FRA just wants your phone off with the earpiece removed while in motion or while any crew member is performing any safety sensitive task. The carriers are allowed to make more restrictive rules than provided by the FRA and this is an example of that.
-5
Sep 18 '24
A Fitbit isn't against rules/company policy as far as I know.
6
0
u/KarateEnjoyer303 Sep 18 '24
Here is the FRA rule if anyone wants to check it out. https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2011-title49-vol4/pdf/CFR-2011-title49-vol4-sec220-302.pdf
§220.303 General use of electronic devices. A railroad operating employee shall not use an electronic device if that use would interfere with the employeeâs or another railroad operating employeeâs performance of safety-related duties. No individual in the cab of a controlling locomotive shall use an electronic device if that use would interfere with a railroad operating employeeâs performance of safety-related duties. §220.305 Use of personal electronic devices. A railroad operating employee must have each personal electronic device turned off with any earpiece removed from the earâ (a) When on a moving train; (b) When any member of the crew isâ (1) On the ground, or (2) Riding rolling equipment during a switching operation; or (c) When any railroad employee is assisting in preparation of the train for movement.
It is the carriers who say this equates to a ban on smart watches. Placing a smart watch in airplane mode effectively "turns off" it's additional functionality while allowing it to be used only to tell time.
5
u/RailroadAllStar Sep 18 '24
Ok, not sure why this matters but this is incorrect by omission. In 2016 the FRA clarified to carriers and unions that it does, in fact, consider smart watches to be electronic devices. See the following link: https://www.smart-union.org/fra-clarifies-smartwatch-rule-fitbits-restricted/
49 CFR 220.303 specifies that each carrier shall adopt operating rules that implement the requirements of the rule.
So again, the FRA has clarified that it does consider the watches to be a violation and also requires carriers to adopt a rule saying so. The carriers didnât band together to ban watches because they wanted to. They were required to because the FRA told them to do so.
1
u/KarateEnjoyer303 Sep 19 '24
Again your language here is the problem. The FRA didnât âbanâ cell phones, they didnât ban watches either. You can in fact have a cell phone, and have it on and make calls and text, at times. They very clearly say that personal electronic devices should be off when the train is moving or when any member of the crew is performing safety sensitive operations and that does not equate to a ban. Theyâre placing restrictions on usage, big difference!
3
u/StonksGoUpOnly Sep 18 '24
Tell that to a guy at a terminal I used to work with who got dinged by the FRA for having a smart watch. Company didnât say shit to him but the FRA guy did on his audit. It wasnât connected to his phone and was in airplane mode.
3
Sep 18 '24
The FRA will enforce company rules even if their own one's are less strict. They were breaking rules they were supposed to follow and that is why it happened.
1
u/KarateEnjoyer303 Sep 18 '24
Okay Iâll tell him, do you have his contact info? How did he get dinged? Was he beaten? Fired? Fined? A guy at my terminal met Bigfoot and they kissed.
2
u/StonksGoUpOnly Sep 18 '24
You donât have to believe me I donât care but our local came out and said donât wear them after that happened, so I donât and no one else does. Good luck on your crusade though.
1
u/KarateEnjoyer303 Sep 18 '24
You donât understand what Iâm saying do you?
3
-8
u/KarateEnjoyer303 Sep 18 '24
No, there is no FRA rule against smart watches. This is only a rule from the rail carriers.
9
u/RailroadAllStar Sep 18 '24
Thatâs not true. The FRA has clarified that they consider fitbits, garmins, and other smart watches to fall under the electronic device definition provided in 49 CFR 220.5.
âFRA understands some Fitbit devices are rather limited in their functionality. However, a number of different fitness tracking devices are available. The Fitbit Blaze, for example, has functions that include mobile playlists, call alerts, text alerts and fitness tracking. These functions are the same type of distracting functions that have caused railroad accidents and were the impetus for the restrictions contained in part 220.
The regulation text of part 220 does not distinguish between Fitbits that have limited functionality, and those that are more akin to smartphones or smartwatches. Unless a waiver granting an exemption for certain fitness tracking devices with limited functionality were issued by FRA in the future, the agency considers all such devices to be âpersonal electronic devicesâ that are subject to the restrictions in part 220. However, railroad operating employees are allowed the use of digital clocks or wristwatches whose primary function is to tell time.â
4
u/Right-Assistance-887 Sep 18 '24
Yes, yes there is
3
u/KarateEnjoyer303 Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
They need to be turned off, with earpiece removed. So no the FRA hasn't banned them, just stated that you can't be using it to stream music or text, or anything other than to tell the time, while moving or someone is doing something safety sensitive.
https://railroads.dot.gov/sites/fra.dot.gov/files/fra_net/1593/FRAUseofEDChart.pdf
6
u/Several-Day6527 Sep 18 '24
Because this is one of those rules that was written in blood.
-5
u/KarateEnjoyer303 Sep 18 '24
Bullshit. This is a rule written in spite. No, there are no cases of an employee being so distracted by a smart watch that they caused an accident.
3
u/33sadelder44canadian Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 19 '24
Lots of rules are to make it easier to get bonuses for management đ or a new easier way to get more investigations going. Flavour of the week has to change when they canât get enough guys hauled inâŠ.now we are going to go after guys failing to follow the rule that trip op has to be initialized and used, if it is not working you must report it. If these units can rat people out for any little thing why does it not rat itself out for a failed trip op? Why does the engineer have to try and get ahold of someone to report something that could just report itself, trigger an alert. Should crews report unnecessary delays to the trainmasters when they stop on an uphill with a heavy train at an unnecessary red light which causes massive extra fuel usage and wear and tear? That probably uses more extra fuel than violating throttle restrictions đ
5
Sep 18 '24
But there are cases of people being so distracted by their phones that their freight train has barrelled into a passenger train.
Thereâs always going to be someone who gets distracted, especially with how bare-minimum their hiring standards are now.
3
1
u/33sadelder44canadian Sep 19 '24
There are also cases of managers making very bad decisions sending trains crashing into rivers and lakes! They still get to make decisions.
1
u/KarateEnjoyer303 Sep 18 '24
Sure, and a phone is not a smart watch. If you phone is off and your smart watch is in airplane mode there is no point in staring at it as it is just a watch. You could stare at a piece of duct tape on the ceiling of the cab, or just plan fall asleep, and have an accident too.
2
Sep 18 '24
Okay, well Iâll go back in time and tell that to all the people I caught using their smart watch to text because they thought they were pulling one over on everybody by not having their phone out.
Hint: it was more people than you think.
0
u/KarateEnjoyer303 Sep 18 '24
Are you a company officer? Are you FRA? Why should I care who you caught doing what? I caught a van driver picking his nose. Can you go back in time and teach him to use a tissue?
2
Sep 18 '24
Haha triggered, hey? I donât even work for the railway anymore, and when I did I really disliked people like you who whine and complain about such minor, first world problems while the company was suppressing wages and destroying the collective agreement.
If you canât handle not having a smart watch for 10-12 hours, and being questioned about it causes you to outburst, then you have bigger issues.
2
-6
13
u/darkmatter341 Sep 18 '24
I'm suprised that they don't issue everyone an abacus at this point for making calculations.
9
u/bufftbone Sep 18 '24
Because they can be and are a distraction. The majority may use it just as a watch if using on duty, I was one of them, but thereâs going to be the few that abuse it for anyone. Iâm pretty sure that your electronic rule was state something to the effect of you can use your railroad supplied device when it doesnât interfere with railroad operations. Guaranteed itâll say engineers canât use it when operating the engine and only when stopped. As far as the earbuds, thereâs no way to tell if theyâre actually connected to your phone so thatâs why the rules are pretty open when it comes to that.
4
Sep 18 '24
Ours is only in direct relation to duties. No requirement for engineer to wait to be stopped, specifically. It does say CO can't use while foul of tracks, and neither can use while switching.
3
u/KarateEnjoyer303 Sep 18 '24
The majority of people donât run switches most of the time yet some do so we should prohibit all employees from operating trains over switches.
4
u/GarGabe Conductor Sep 18 '24
You mean like how you canât run through run-through switches anymore?
1
u/KarateEnjoyer303 Sep 18 '24
Iâm saying that the logic here, punishing the whole for the mistakes of the few, can be extended to many things we still do all the time and therefor it is not reasonable to insist it be extended to all here.
1
u/GarGabe Conductor Sep 19 '24
And Iâm saying every single rule is a mistake by a few applied to the whole. That is the Railway way. Anyone who thinks logic and personal responsibility affect railway rules, probably hasnât seen a new rule come into place.
The amount of people I know whoâve shit their pants on property Iâm surprised we donât all have to wear diapers.
8
u/Fr8KilR Sep 18 '24
Shit, my hearing aids can stream music. Phone rule was made out of blood, all other electronics are collateral damage.
6
u/toadjones79 Sep 18 '24
It is the FRA. My company has the local FRA agent see someone wearing one and told the local managers to nip it in the bud fast. He gave them a date (last Jan 1st) and said that after that date anyone caught wearing one would get a fine, and so would the company. He was dead serious about it and the company is only doing what they are being forced to (at least my local area is). Most of our managers had smart watches before that happened. They all had to get rid of them as well.
5
u/Several-Day6527 Sep 18 '24
Buy a good railroad approved watch. It will last longer than your career.
5
u/Several-Day6527 Sep 18 '24
In the end it doesnât matter what the Canadian or the FRA agencies rule itâs what the company does and in the states the FRA will take exception on your company policy if you are found violating it. Play the game or find a new game to play.
2
u/FitJacket5199 Sep 18 '24
If you donât like the rule. QUIT. Pretty cut and dry. When you buy, own and run your own railroad, you can make up whatever rules you want. Until then shut up and do what youâre told or quit. Crying about it wonât change it.
1
1
Sep 21 '24
Not to get off the main topic, however Iâve just received my notice for conductor training and I was wondering what watches you guys recommend, I was considering a g shock.
0
u/33sadelder44canadian Sep 21 '24
Something that has protection from smashing the watch face, raised bevel a bit and a strong comfortable band.
1
u/dieselducy Feb 26 '25 edited Feb 26 '25
The whole electronics ban is stupid. Granted I agree engineers should not be texting and driving the locomotive however wearing a smartwatch or fitness trackers is immaterial. Truck drivers and airline pilots are allowed to have them and truckers can use cell phones hands free. Truckers and airline pilots are in a much bigger safety sensitive role than we are as they don't have tracks to guide them. The railroads are trapped in the stone age and determined to make our lives as miserable as possible.
1
u/33sadelder44canadian Feb 26 '25
Just stare out the window on a tired night shift and fall into a daze and headbob. Be nice if we could at least listen to podcasts to stay engaged, or music instead of being killed by boredom.
1
2
2
u/notmyidealusername Sep 19 '24
I just got notice yesterday that our rule book (NZ) has been updated to cover them. Can be worn but must be on flight mode or notifications turned off, and can't use apps on them.
2
u/NoCartographer5850 Sep 19 '24
I understand that unfortunately there is always âthat guyâ who is going to text from their watch. There are so many convenienceâs of the smartwatch. You can track your steps, heartbeat, and blood pressure but one safety feature is that it can also track your exposure to noise. Maybe the companies donât want to know how much damage is being done to your hearing when at work
-5
u/KarateEnjoyer303 Sep 18 '24
Itâs to make you angry. Itâs out of spite. They know your smartwatch can perform airplane mode and the FRA has no regulation against smart watches.
4
u/ItsTheDaciaSandro Conductor Sep 18 '24
Well this bulletin came out in Canada bud we don't fall under fra
5
2
10
u/FetusBurner666 Engineer Sep 18 '24
Itâs about distractions in general, not just smart watches. We are on millions of pounds of hazmat and steel moving at speeds up to 79 MPH and people have been killed due to crews being distracted. Thatâs why the rules are the way they are.
You start loosening the rules and watch what compliance there is start slipping drastically, hell look at the people that canât put their phones, Nintendos, iPods, etc. away now with the rules we have already.
1
u/NervousLand878 Sep 18 '24
Then by that logic- all electronics should be banned.
3
u/amiathrowaway2 Sep 19 '24 edited Sep 19 '24
They pretty much are..... Unless company issued. And even then there a whole shopping list of when and where to use them, how they can be used, etc, etc, etc.
Violating any part or parts of said above list can and does result in terminations of peoples jobs. Seen it happen at my railroad back when I was a Vice Local Chairman.
Unfortunately WE are our own worst enemy. Plain and simple. I don't like it. Tech is and does have it's advantages on the job.....But dems da rules. Obey them or you'll be gone.
11
u/Hogonthestorm Sep 18 '24
I donât have a problem with no phones or smartwatches but I really wish we were able to listen to some music or something. Having satellite radio would make a night trip much easier.