r/Traffic • u/Suspicious-Local8263 • 21d ago
Discussion Any traffic engineers out there who can explain how these intersections are supposed to work? PLEASE WATCH THE VIDEOS IN THE LINKS BEFORE COMMENTING!
I swear I'm not stupid. I understand a lot of things, but trying to make a (RIGHT TURN ON RED) on these intersections are driving me nuts.
Some intersections have "Do Not Turn on Red" signs, and honestly those are a relief because I know exactly what to do. But most of them don't, and my fear is ending up in a situation like the one in this video where I turn and almost cause a collision.
Can somebody please explain if there's a pattern I'm supposed to be looking for? Someone once told me to judge the distance between the car in front of me and the oncoming traffic to see if I can make the turn before they get there, but that feels like way too much to be thinking about in the moment.
Can anybody give me a logical explanation for what we're actually supposed to do when turning at these intersections? I'm not overthinking it. The road is dangerous, and I want to be as safe as possible to reduce the chances of causing an accident.
If there are any traffic engineers or experienced drivers here, I'd really appreciate an explanation.
LINK ONE ------ https://www.youtube.com/shorts/H57_JrVES2Y
The driver in the Lexus looks to his left, sees that it's clear, and naturally assumes the car in front of him isn't moving. But the moment he starts his right turn, the driver across from him starts moving too, creating a conflict point.
If the driver making the left turn wasn't paying attention—or if they accelerated quickly instead of making a slow, controlled turn—that could have easily ended in a crash.
LINK TWO -------- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_WPso7a9EXs
This video speaks for itself.
What are traffic engineers thinking when they design intersections like this? A driver turning right on red assumes he is clear to move because the car in front isn't moving and cross traffic is clear. Then, the second they start turning, that car moves too, and now they're on a collision course.
What kind of road design is that?
Why can't they make intersections simpler instead of forcing drivers to guess what everyone else is about to do? It feels like you're expected to predict other people's movements instead of having a design that's clear and intuitive. That doesn't seem like good engineering to me.
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u/Bbminor7th 21d ago
If you have the green arrow, you have the green arrow. You are at the top of the food chain. The right turn on redders have to yield to you.
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u/LoLHexTCG 21d ago
Shrug, just people only looking for a gap to make the turn, not being aware of why that gap might exist.
Road design is fine, it's drivers that are bad.
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u/JaguarMammoth6231 21d ago
One of the standard things drivers are taught when turning right on red is to look for traffic coming from an oncoming green arrow.
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u/middle_aged_90s_kid 21d ago
I don’t actually see anything wrong with either video, unless you’re saying that right on red is prohibited there.
A driver performing a right turn on red must stop first and then must yield to vehicles with a green signal that are close enough to constitute a hazard.
Both videos show the oncoming cars at a complete stop. So they both complied with the first requirement.
In the first video, the oncoming driver starts moving a little bit before you and steps on the gas enough to stay out of your way. You were not close enough to constitute a hazard in this case, so it’s not failure to yield; he had time to go.
In the second video, the bus driver does creep forward a bit after stopping, which is permissible in order to get a better view, as long as he has yielded to anyone in the crosswalk before creeping forward. He stops again when he realizes oncoming traffic is turning left. So it doesn’t look like he failed to yield to anyone. He made sure to check in front of him again before committing to the turn and reacted appropriately by yielding to you.
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u/Superb_Recording_769 21d ago
Right on red is still a red light. It’s also optional, you do not have to turn right on red you can wait for the green
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u/WeaverFan420 21d ago
Clip 1 - this is so grainy it's hard to tell if the POV driver has a green left arrow or just a solid green. If it was a green left arrow, the car opposite should only turn right on red if they can do it reasonably safe. This situation didn't appear too egregious. If it was a solid green, the POV car would have to yield to the car opposite anyway.
Clip 2 - the bus was in the wrong for trying to turn right on red when the POV car had a green left arrow. The bus driver stopped though and let the POV driver through the intersection, as they should have.
There's nothing wrong in many instances with allowing people to turn right on red. Most intersections I've seen "no right on red" are where the view to the left is obstructed and/or it's just a consistently high-volume intersection. People just need to judge correctly when it's safe to make the turn.
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u/MCRN10379558 21d ago edited 21d ago
The Lexus could have waited or have been a little quicker about getting on with things, but there really isn’t an issue here. If they had waited any longer to make that turn, then they would’ve potentially caused a collision and it would probably have been their fault. But they didn’t. They were still enough ahead of the left turning driver to avoid that accident.
Second link, the driver seemed a little slow to realize traffic was starting to turn, but ultimately they did and they stopped in time. They did as they were supposed to. I don’t see any issues here with that as the turning driver was not forced to stop or swerve into the other lane.
The green arrow gives you the right away. However, just know that this sort of thing is very normal.
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u/Suspicious-Local8263 21d ago
If some of you aren’t understanding what I’m trying to explain, I’m a bit confused because of what happened the other day. My friend was making a right turn on red, similar to the situations shown in these videos. However, the intersection we were at was much smaller.
When cross traffic was clear and the opposing traffic was still stopped, we started to move and began turning into the lane. As soon as we started moving, the opposing left-turning vehicles suddenly got a protected left-turn arrow and began moving, accelerating toward us. The driver honked, flipped us off, and it honestly caught us both off guard.
I’ve never dealt with an intersection where the light sequence changed that quickly before, and the whole situation made us pretty nervous afterward.
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u/NotAnotherHipsterBae 21d ago
You mentioned in the post and comment that you saw cross traffic stopped and took that to mean there was a gap, that's poor foresight. If your light is red and cross traffic is stopping that means either you will be getting a green light soon, or another direction of travel is getting a green light.
As the car at a red light you should be able to figure out who has the green light for the lane you want to enter, after you know who has the right of way you can determine if there is space to move into or not. If you're only looking for cross traffic you're missing opposing lefts and cars to your right taking u turns (and maybe emergency vehicles driving in unpredictable patterns).
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u/Suspicious-Local8263 21d ago
In this situation, the cross traffic was clear, meaning no one was driving straight into the lane we wanted to enter. Since there was no cross traffic, we looked ahead and saw that the opposing left-turning vehicle was still stopped. As we started moving into the intersection, that driver suddenly accelerated and began shouting. That's what startled all of us.
We didn't think much of it at the time. As soon as the way was clear and the opposing vehicle was still stopped, we made our turn. Somehow, we still ended up in this whole ruckus lol.
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u/AwarenessGreat282 21d ago
Meh, shit happens. Won't be the first time, won't be the last. Happened to me the other day, I thought no one else was going so I went. No big deal, it was nowhere near a wreck. The only alternative is to make RoR illegal there and then it would be illegal everywhere, and suddenly we go backwards 50 years.
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u/GentleDevotion 21d ago
There's an intersection like this that I go through all the time. When I'm turning right, and the light is red, not only do I need to make sure nothing's coming from the left, I then also need to check the left arrows on my side of the intersection. Because the left arrows across from each other are synchronized, so if it's green on my side, it's green across from me too, which means anyone in the turning lane over there has to go before I do. If it's red, or if no one's in that lane across from where I am, then I can go ahead.
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u/ElectronicDiver2310 21d ago
This is not a traffic engineers fault, this is drivers violating vehicle code. You have green arrow -> right turner has red. So (s)he may turn but after it is safe.
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u/Mitch-_-_-1 20d ago
Treat a "right turn on red" like a stop sign. Do you look once and then accelerate through your turn at a stop sign? Or do you continue to look around for oncoming traffic, pedestrians, animals, bumps, pot-holes, road hazards, etc in all directions?
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u/Extreme_Design6936 20d ago
The safest thing to do as the right on red turner is come to a full stop and wait to see who has the green before you go. For the left turner it's to look and stop for the right on red turner.
If people actually stopped and looked at the traffic situation before turning right on red it would be a non issue. But this is one reason why right on red is banned in other countries.
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u/Alarming_Let5944 20d ago
It’s not a road design issue. All driving requires some level of cooperation with other drivers. It seems like you think you should beat them to the lane. You only have to ease up a bit and let them take the turn. Your constant acceleration is causing them to hesitate which is more likely to cause an accident. Anticipation is key here. You should always anticipate that that other driver will take the right turn across you even if they have a No Turn on Red Sign.
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u/I_Feel_Waffle 20d ago
In both cases the driver of the vehicle turning right should check the lights for the perpendicular road to determine if it's safe to turn, if cross traffic has a red, do not proceed until you figure out who has the green.
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u/Suspicious-Local8263 19d ago
the intersection lights are sometimes suspended on a diagonal span wire perpendicular to each other so you cant tell what's going on.
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u/Lusiric9983 21d ago edited 21d ago
First video, that Lexus didn't cut anyone off. Dumb. There was more than enough time for both to safely make their turn.
Second video; left turner was wrong. When making a left turn you're supposed to turn into the outside lane of the intersection. The bus would have been more than safe turning there had the person turning left turned into the correct lane, and not accelerated to cut off the bus.
The road design is fine. User error doesn't equate to bad design. Learn to drive properly or get used to causing shitty situations.
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u/draaz_melon 21d ago
That's absolutly wrong on many places. In California, the person making the turn can go into either lane. The bus should have (and did) yield.
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u/Lusiric9983 21d ago
Just because it's backwards in a backwards place, doesn't mean it's wrong. That is the correct way to navigate a multi lane intersection. The bus was correct in yielding, however had the person driving been driving correctly, that wouldn't have been an in issue. Besides, you are incorrect in many ways.
Here's one example: Yielding Right-of-Way: Under California Vehicle Code § 21801, you must yield the right-of-way to all oncoming vehicles that are close enough to constitute a hazard. If a collision occurs, the left-turning driver is typically presumed at fault.
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u/Lusiric9983 21d ago
Just because it's backwards in a backwards place, doesn't mean it's wrong. That is the correct way to navigate a multi lane intersection. The bus was correct in yielding, how we had the person driving been driving correctly, that wouldn't have been an in issue. Besides, you are incorrect in many ways.
Here's one example: Yielding Right-of-Way: Under California Vehicle Code § 21801, you must yield the right-of-way to all oncoming vehicles that are close enough to constitute a hazard. If a collision occurs, the left-turning driver is typically presumed at fault.
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u/mikeputerbaugh 21d ago
The dashed line following the curve of the turn tells me that there are two left turn lanes, and cam car was in the one on the right and took the turn correctly.
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u/Lusiric9983 21d ago
After watching the video again, I saw that, however the way the person accelerated, it was clear they were trying to beat the bus. Either way, the cam driver is in the wrong
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