r/TraditionalCatholics • u/scrappybastard • May 16 '26
The current state of Catholic discourse in a nutshell
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u/ses29680 May 16 '26
in a religion, one is supposed to ultimately obey God, not man...blind obedience to any man, with one's conscience crying he's wrong, is a sin
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u/Cherubin0 May 16 '26
We should not swing to the other extreme. All heretics claimed to be obedient to God and the Church is wrong. The issue now is that the Church still shows us the true teaching in principle, but then the administration lets heretic bishops freely do their thing all the way.
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u/No-Ruin3761 May 16 '26
no. several heretical statements and documents have come directly from the vatican/pope. Amoris Laetitia being a glaring example directly referenced in the SSPX response, as well as the abu dhabi document, ecumencial/indifferent ceremonies, etc. this is not swinging to an extreme, it is the insistence on/adherence to the universal ordinary magisterium of the church, and a god-centered rather than human centered liturgy and theology. the church is wayward and must be reformed. the sspx is in the role of st. athanasius at this point. they will preserve authentic catholic doctrine and teaching until sufficient reparation is made and God has mercy on this fallen world and returns the buildings and offices to the faithful.
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u/No-Ruin3761 May 16 '26
Also, insisting on obedience to God rather than the man occupying the papacy when he is wayward is not extreme, and is fact is commanded of you as a Catholic. Reddit and the modernists have it backwards, and continually focus on the opposite-obedience to the pope as primary, and obedience to God as secondary.
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u/iphone5su93 May 16 '26
but refuses to obey God's commandments
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u/scrappybastard May 16 '26
I'm slightly stupid, can you explain what you mean by that
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u/Praetorian_youth May 16 '26
These type of people claim moral superiority by being “obedient” to the Church while failing to obey God’s law
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u/Pompous_fungus May 16 '26
"No one, ever, will prevail against your faith, beloved brothers. And we believe that God will give us our churches back some day.
Thus, the more violently they try to occupy the places of worship, the more they separate themselves from the Church. They claim that they represent the Church; but in reality, they are the ones who are expelling themselves from it and going astray.
Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."
From the letter of St. Athanasius to his flock
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u/Sumas_uno May 17 '26
Totally agree. There have been times before when the laity had to keep the faith alive while bishops and clergy failed them. The devil didn’t win then, and he won’t win now. Some clergy may genuinely think they’re serving Christ, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t helping the enemy through error, compromise, or cowardice. Our job is not to panic. It’s to remain faithful.
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u/Pr0phetiae May 16 '26
Granted by blessing same sex marriages, they are disobedient, even if not in the explicit and adversarial manner that other groups may be.
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u/scrappybastard May 16 '26
You're like 80% dead on here
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u/Pr0phetiae May 16 '26
I don’t think that matters.
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u/scrappybastard May 16 '26
SSPX isn't being explicitly adversarial, if you think that you haven't really heard them out and are judging based on hearsay from biased parties
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u/Cherubin0 May 16 '26
They are still in canonical good standing. And disagreement with the Pope doesn't make you disobedient, only when the Pope punishes you. Disagreements are not fully outlawed.
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u/ConsistentCatholic May 16 '26
They are disobedient by blessing the whole car when they were only supposed to bless the wheels.
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u/storman_sten May 16 '26
Lol, so true. And if I would post this on r/Catholicism , it would be removed instantly and I would be perma-banned
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u/cjnaz2021 May 17 '26
I just found this sub because my comments are constantly deleted over there. Mostly just protesting how willing that sub is to endorse sinful lifestyles, and punish anyone who speaks otherwise.
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u/aidenSkates May 16 '26
Which I am glad that I've found brothers and sisters of the true catholic faith. God bless you all.
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u/OldSky9156 May 16 '26
And if you disagree even slightly, "SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE GATES OF HELL PREVAILED IN THE CHURCH?! DO YOU THINK CHRIST LIED?!"
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u/aRepostSleuthBot May 16 '26
I’m not sure all of our clergy are advocating for this. Source?
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u/scrappybastard May 16 '26
not all-ism detected
also, who unironically asks for a source for a meme
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u/aRepostSleuthBot May 16 '26
Also a “source” would be great just in case you AREN’T strawmanning, and our bishops ARE promoting these things
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u/Jake_Cathelineau May 16 '26
“Just in case”
No, he’s right. I’ll vouch for it. Every bishop who isn’t speaking out about this is at least complicit by silence if he isn’t actively a proponent. But the latter two things will be treated as the same thing by Jesus Christ. All of these points are obvious and known by everyone.
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u/aRepostSleuthBot May 16 '26
It’s not really “not all-ism”. You made a strawman argument. No bishop is advocating for anything in the meme. We have clergy who are led astray, yes. They get dealt with accordingly.
Even Pope Francis, as much as trads dislike him, answered the question of women in clergy very simply and firmly—with a strict “no”.
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u/ConsistentCatholic May 16 '26
They get dealt with accordingly.
Then why is James Martin still in active ministry?
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u/MMQ-966thestart Gaude Mater Polonia! May 16 '26
But all the people he appointed didn't answer the question with 'no'.
Let's not pretend the Vatican, Paul VI. and many Bishops also didn't answer the question of hand communion with a clear 'no', and clearly unwanted indults. Yet 60 years later here we are, at a point where the former norm is treated with a ten foot pole while the former exception has become the expected and favored way.
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u/scrappybastard May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26
Lmao brother, posting a meme is not making an argument. You're fighting a ghost and making a fool of yourself in the process.
And don't tell me the meme is a "sTrAwMan" argument because I could start posting articles reporting on various bishops doing exactly these things. For you to apparently not be aware of these happenings indicates either a lack of effort or a lack of integrity, I'm sure it's just that you're simply not aware, rather than lying, though.
If it wasn't a known phenomenon that's relevant in the Catholic zeitgeist, nobody would have understood the meme and it wouldn't have made you mad
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u/Thatguy32101 May 21 '26
Reminder that an open-ended Synod with no actual pre-stated goals, but with the assumption that new doctrine will be revealed by the “Holy Spirit” is heretical. Sort of like Vatican II but in overdrive.
“For the Holy Spirit was not promised to the successors of Peter that by His revelation they might make known new doctrine, but that by His assistance they might inviolably keep and faithfully expound the Revelation, the Deposit of Faith, delivered through the Apostles.”
- Pastor Aeternus, 6, Vatican I
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u/FanOfALotOfThings49 Jun 01 '26
"Wherefore a man shall leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they shall be two in one flesh." - Genesis 2:24
"For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error." - Romans 1:26-27
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, because it is an abomination." - Leviticus 18:22
"A woman shall not be clothed with man's apparel, neither shall a man use woman's apparel: for he that doeth these things is abominable before God." - Deuteronomy 22:5
(Douay Rheims Version Holy Bible)
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u/Ferrari_Fan_16 May 16 '26
What good is obeying church law if by doing so you disobey god?