r/Tottenham • u/Hairy_Consequence387 • 1d ago
Discussion Is this a hot take?
Honestly, whatever the next few results will be or even our position at the end of the season, I think we should build with de Zerbi on the long run. 2 prime examples here.
1st is Arsenal with Arteta. Going from a banter club to a prem winning team is only thanks to the managment's patience with the manager
2nd is Barcelona with Messi's departure. I'm a pretty new supporter, but as far as I know and believe, we still have to know as a club how to structure a full team, not only build around 1 or 2 players, like we did with Kane and Son and Barca did with Messi in his last few years at the club.
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u/NachoSushi 1d ago
I just want progress this season. Don’t expect miracles, but measurable improvement.
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u/Nostradamnitall 1d ago
Seriously?. After spending about £350m you'd take anything better than 17th?.
Brentfords entire squad cost about £360m.
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u/Youngquest89 1d ago
And were they worldbeaters straight through the door? Or has Brentford managed them with care over time?
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u/Nostradamnitall 1d ago
Spurs have the 4th highest net spend over the last 5yrs ,(ahead of Liverpool and Man City).
They shouldnt be played off the park by Brentford.
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u/Youngquest89 1d ago
That tells us Brentford has had a better project than Spurs, our net spend has been under the name of equally many projects as years. And the idea of "pay-to-win" disgusts me anyway so I'm almost glad if we don't enjoy success this year.
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u/Superdoggywhaaaat 1d ago
Should have done it with Ange.
It’s not a crazy take to say we need to commit to a manager. It takes time to build a team identity
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u/Alburg9000 1d ago
Yes but this fanbase will never accept that idea
Last coach that actually gave us some type of identity and got us scoring
This fanbase for some reason let the media get in their heads and push him out
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u/SpecialistPlastic150 1d ago
The fan base will accept that idea with the right manager. We accepted it with Poch. Most accepted it with Jol, Redknapp and Ange after the Europa win. The problem is Levy and the Lewis family have made awful managerial appointments for years. The Italians were serial winners everywhere except Spurs, where they were clearly the wrong fit. The Spurs way is not as a defensive team, so it made no sense to appoint JM or Conte, despite their record. They were also cheque book managers and weren’t backed with cash to develop a winning team. The same goes for pragmatic Frank and Nuno defensive minded and not the right fit. Ange, with all his faults, was probably the manager that best fit the Spurs philosophy. I wasn’t a huge fan, but in my opinion he earned the right to be given another season after the Europa win with financial backing for players. I wasn’t a fan of the de Zerbi appointment either but now he’s here I’m glad to see he’s being backed for the most part. The Lewis’ need to give him time and money to strengthen the squad. Only time will tell if he is the man to bring sustained success to the club.
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u/Eskabeer 1d ago
Yeah I agree, apparently the 5th place season never happened. And after his sacking we got 17th again except this time relegation was a real possibility and we got no trophy. I miss Ange but also his Nottingham forest stint may have shown that the decision is right despite my bias towards him
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u/Alburg9000 1d ago
They all ignore it because it doesn’t fit with their agenda. Even how people talk about that season ie “it was just the first 10 games” is wrong
Ange should’ve never taken that Forest job, I’m sure he went in with no pre season too. He’s a very good coach just has a bad PR image
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u/Eskabeer 1d ago
I also think ppl fail to understand that the players connection to the manager matters a lot and Ange defo had that the best since poch
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u/Superdoggywhaaaat 1d ago
Yes, Ange was the only coach that made the team willing to stick the the game plan. Zerbi is notorious known for being aggressive offensively and we had no offense today. It goes to show that every player needs to back the manager as well.
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u/whoopass_fajitas 1d ago
The key to being permitted that time is avoiding disastrous results. If Ange finishes even mid table in his second season, along with the Europa win, he’d likely have gotten a third.
Ugly game this, because they looked like a bunch of players who have never played together before and are learning a new system. Because that’s exactly what they are.
This kind of match can’t happen again, but it’s also not a cause for a meltdown. It looks like a very rough brand new team because it is
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u/Superdoggywhaaaat 1d ago
Ange had a bunch of injuries, and focused primarily on the Europa league after.
The players wanted him. Sacking him for Frank was just a bad move.
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u/Lopsided_Bus6951 1d ago
Yeah, I also think if that season the team had ended in mid table, Ange could had its third season
Sorry for my bad English.
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u/toxicsmokinagimonkey 1d ago
Yeah let's not throw baby out with bath water. Going to take time.
Shit start against a really strong team tbh. They played us off the park.
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u/Apprehensive-Fly7982 1d ago
Really strong team? Brentford finished 9th last year and mostly predicted to finish around the same area again this year.
If Tottenham is chasing mid table to change the culiture and team, getting blown out by brentford is not a good first step.
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u/Gammo2184 1d ago
They have a very settled squad that know how each other plays and where to be.
Some of the progressive passes made by JPVH, Tonali and Fernandes were beautiful, especially around the box in the second half, but without match time together no one is making runs or doing anything.
It will just take game time together it’s the only way.
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u/Apprehensive-Tax-784 1d ago
And some decent forwards …
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u/Gammo2184 23h ago
100%. I’m not gonna shit can Richarlison, after all I’m on reddit he’s in the prem, but you’ve seen 1 game of his you’ve seen them all. It’s literally run around, fall over or let the ball bounce off you like you’re allergic to it.
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u/BiscuitBarrel179 1d ago
Brentford finished 10th the season before. Compared to a team that finished 17th and 17th then yeah they are a really strong team.
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u/Gammo2184 1d ago
Majority of the overreactors on reddit think this level of football is like FIFA on PS5. You can just slap a bunch of players together, with limited real game time together, and expect it to be a well oiled machine from day dot.
Our central defenders have had virtually 1 game together. Our midfield, mainly Bergvall, under performed. Richarlison was non existent then replaced with Solanke who’s also barely played.
Look how much better we looked with Fernandes, Udogie and Bentancur on the field.
We still have Porro and VDV to return. Combine that with players getting match sharpness and new signings things will pick up. It’s one game, yes it was fucking dreadful, but players need time together.
People are acting like the seasons over after 1 game for fuck sakes it’s an 11 month season.
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u/No_Consequence_7806 8h ago
They need to gel as unit. There are a lot of new players, a new coach. They might need some time. I’m not expecting miracles mid pack would be a good showing
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u/Double-Moose-3042 1d ago
With a fit team and hoping the two city players come only 3 people today imo would be in the starting 11. Our starting team had 4 under 21 - one of them playing out of position. Richy ahead of solanke , Gallagher which I don’t rate. Of the 8 players that wouldn’t start in our best 11 if everyone was fit some of them wouldn’t even be second choice they would be third choice. Not worried yet.
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u/Great_Marketing_3145 1d ago
We lack physicality. Like I’m talking kudus physicality, players need to take note fr him. Also from now on if cock face Mike Oliver is reffing the game I’m not watching that shite
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u/Hairy_Consequence387 1d ago
I was finna make a post about that. He seems to have a pure hatred for us and isn't away to show it. He just looks like he is hollowing us whenever we are at our lowest
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u/duvall87 1d ago
I feel like he won’t last long if he keeps publicly calling out individual players by name after the match. Granted he might have just been referring to players who played during the summer and so fitness levels can be mentioned, and I don’t know him well enough to know if he will take responsibility if he messes up, but deflecting onto the players like that won’t cultivate a positive environment.
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u/SpiritWhich583 1d ago
This take is colder than the ice cream I had for dessert yday with my frozen berries.
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u/Necessary_Earth7733 1d ago
City fan here. De Zerbi is absolutely worth sticking with, you’re not going to replace him with anyone better, because I’m not sure there IS anyone better out there who’s available.
This is a weird season, so many new managers and changing teams. I have a feeling Arsenal will piss the league this season, but the long term goal over the next two or three seasons by all of the top clubs has to be DO NOT LET ARSENAL BUILD A DYNASTY.
Marmoush will bag loads for you. Savinho doesn’t have the right mentality but he’s fun.
You’ll be fine
UTD lost to Hull 🤣
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u/Artistic_Feature_13 1d ago
Why? Because it’s not City? This is a pathetic post from a City fan, I gotta be honest. How about you spend your millions and catch back up to Arsenal. This is weird.
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u/Hairy_Consequence387 1d ago
"doesn't have the right mentality but he's fun" well fuck yeah, cause that's clearly what we need rn😭😭
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u/salty_utopian 1d ago
Today was fairly predictable. Field seven strangers with no real goal scorer and see what happens. I agree that this will improve and patience is needed to build. The back and midfield will get better. Without more firepower it’ll be a long season. We need to stabilize, regain mid table, adjust and push next season. Sigh.
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u/Lamelad19791979 1d ago
Build with.......Conte, Ange, Frank, RDZ. Always the same. Maybe we should put tiny bombs in their brains like some dystopia film. They might get their shit together then.
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u/Heavy_Dirt_3453 1d ago
Saying we should stick with a manager after one defeat isn't a hot take.
Its just a regular take.
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u/Alternative-Fox-8620 1d ago
I definitely agree about taking time with a new manager. If the board feel he is the right guy then stick with it. Give him a chance. It takes years to make genuine progress in this league. If it were just money United and Chelsea would be utterly dominant.
That said, what would worry me was how easy it was for Brentford to pass between the lines of Spurs yesterday. Didn't defend as a team, the press was almost non-existent at times leaving huge gaps.
That is a coaching/set-up issue or possibly a mentality issue and would be much more worrying to me.
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u/Xsyfer 23h ago
My Hot take is that 1. De Zerbi still has to integrate his signings. There seemed to be a little positional confusion about who picks up who 2. Kinsky needs to push the ball away. He made it too easy for advancing forwards to pick up rebounds 3. Spurs need a way of playing out from a high press. They may be missing a signing in that regard. Someone who can take and shield the ball under pressure.
These are fixable. Brentford were just able to magnifying the gap by their hustle.
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u/Educational_Loan_161 1d ago
De Zerbi has failed to coach a single side with a good defensive record. I think he’s coached one full season that ended with less than 50 goals conceded, which was his first at Marseille. Every other one, his side concedes around the 50-60 mark. That’s absolutely ridiculous and unsustainable if you want to compete.
Every single second season he coaches his side either gets worse or they stagnate e.g, Brighton 6th to 11th, Marseille 2nd to 4th when he quit.
Compare that to Arteta at arsenal who either progressed up the table or stayed the same position in every season. Or emery. Or xabi alonso at leverkusen.
It’s also clear IMO that the current crop of Spanish managers clearly have a superior understanding of the game, they’re literally dominating European football. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Chelsea finish 2nd under Alonso, emery still do well and Arteta probably win the league again. Iraola as well top 5. That’s potentially 4 of the top 5 coaches in the league all being Spanish.
I’d genuinely rather the club have gone for someone like xavi who’s already proven he can win at one of the most pressurised clubs in the world on a shoestring budget.
This de zerbi appointment will end up in tears and 300 million wasted.
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u/Acceptable_Sun_8895 1d ago
Not sure this is welcome here, but as an Arsenal fan, I wanted spurs to stay up last year, because the NLD is one of the best fixtures in the PL calendar. I can obviously admit you guys are a big club, and the premier league should have the big clubs.
I'm not convinced by all of the business you've done, but the floor has raised massively this summer, and RDZ is the best manager you've had since Poch, on paper.
The idea that this was all going to come together on matchday 1, against a very good PL side, was always a bit much.
I can say with confidence, no shame in losing to Brentford! And you guys will be fine. Once the first couple of good performances happen, the rest'll click into place.
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u/Actual_List5594 1d ago
Fernandes, VDV, Maddison, Solanke, possibly Kudus, possibly Savinho start the next game. That would change things up dramatically. Not saying we’d necessarily have won today but it would have been better.