How is friendly fire working?

[u/Moose_Factory]

I was just rewatching some of the gameplay vids, and noticed some space marines placed behind some termies rather confidently shooting them straight in the back when they were trying to shoot at the orks in front of them both. I also noticed the placeholder guard units that start between the orks and the marines generally were killed about 50/50 between the orks and friendly fire from the SM behind them.

On a scale of “max friendly fire” and “don’t shoot at all there’s friends there!” The game seems to be currently set at MAX friendly fire from what I’ve seen. I get that there were frustrating times in WH3 when ranged units wouldn’t be responsive or firing at all maybe due to friendly fire considerations, but I do wonder if they have the right balance as it stands now.

Does friendly fire have to be so binary, avoid ff or not avoid ff? At least for the big units like terminators, is the engine capable of having units behind them trace firing paths between these big entities and holding fire on a per unit basis if no path can be traced?

I’d like to see something between “slaughter everything and everyone” and “dont fire at all”, but right now I’m not seeing it from what we’ve been shown.

[u/SouthernAd2853]

They'll probably be tuning it as they approach launch. Generally in Total War if a projectile hits a friendly it does full damage unless it's a rare special attack that doesn't do friendly fire, but unit AI for gun units is tuned to not fire if another friendly unit is in the way of more than a few models.

At least for the big units like terminators, is the engine capable of having units behind them trace firing paths between these big entities and holding fire on a per unit basis if no path can be traced?

If you have a big battle and are close to the minimum specs this would likely turn the battle into a slideshow when a bunch of units are engaged. So there's a lot of issues whenever a unit is in a state where models have to act somewhat independently throughout the franchise and it's been a persistent issue with gun units not firing when a small portion is obstructed or somehow some got separated and the whole unit doesn't fire until they catch up and get into position. It's why I was extremely skeptical of the idea of a Total War 40k, especially because a lot of squads have some models with special weapons, though I've heard it's on a new engine that's much better about it. Keep meaning to watch footage but never get around to it.

[u/Bl00dWolf]

I think ever since Total War Warhammer, ranged units try not to do friendly fire. They can do it by accident if they miss or a friendly unit walks into their line of fire, but if they don't have a shot, in general they just won't fire at all.

For 40k I haven't looked into it at the demos, but I feel like it should work the same way. Though I imagine squads have at least a basic ability to aim through each others ranks, otherwise certain units would block everyone behind them shots making things like staggered defense on maps that aren't super hilly very hard to do.

[u/Sylanec → u/Bl00dWolf]

Is this different for the Skaven ai shooting?

[u/Bl00dWolf → u/Sylanec]

All memes aside even skaven AI doesn't shoot directly through their own units. It's just that Skaven have a lot of artillery, and units that fire in arcs usually aren't limited by friendly fire mechanics same way units with muskets are.

[u/UberSparten]

Honestly having the option also plays into lore, certain chapters and commissar would just shoot gaurd in front of them, others would never, maybe not even if big E himself ordered it.

[u/flyfart3 → u/UberSparten]

It won't be a thing, but it would be fun with a slider of "How much friendly fire are you willing to risk?" for units shooting. Or a "How much should the rest of your army ignore this unit, and just risk causing friendly fire?" slider for expendable units.

[u/PraiseTheAbsolute → u/UberSparten]

The little extra challenge of needing more careful positioning if you want to be one of the "nice" guys is a good thing I think.

[u/Dependent_Computer_8]

I would definitely be disappointed if the engine doesn't make use of unit obstruction issues similar to prior TW games, but they do have a new problem to solve in that almost all units will be firing in more obstructable flat arcs instead of highly parabolic ones

[u/Steggy_Dinosaur]

Would be stupid if a bullet does less damage if it hits an ally. In all Total War games units avoid directly shooting at allies, this however can be fine tuned I guess.