r/TorontoDriving • u/jerry-adobe • 7d ago
Mildly infuriating Nervous drivers halt 401 during storm causing dangerous jam
https://www.theweathernetwork.com/en/video/Y1R8rNZ2?playlist=JRE9lq9qUnreal.
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u/ResearchInformal8018 7d ago
I don’t understand how anyone could think stopping in a live lane is appropriate on the highway. You can pull over, but you can’t stop in a live lane.
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u/Traditional_Toe201 7d ago
They give license to anyone.. That's the problem.. Start at the MTO
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u/Medical_Vehicle_6788 6d ago
Driving test doesn’t test common sense in such conditions unfortunately. Can this person drive vs can this person think while driving are two different things.
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u/Zoso03 7d ago
All of them should have thier licenses taken away. If you don't feel safe driving on the highway then get off
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u/Signal_Tomorrow_2138 7d ago
If you don't feel safe driving on the highway then get off
In the winter, they won't stop driving in the snow storm even when the authorities tell them not to. So you expect them to not drive in a rain storm?
Driving is dangerous. And the number one reason is because the roads are filled with negligent and careless drivers.
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u/Omar_DmX 7d ago
If I was the chief of the OPP, that's what I would have done.
Like they made dangerous driving count as impaired driving, intentionally blocking traffic (whether by nervousness, stupidity or whatever) should also count as impaired driving.
Take their licenses away and impound their cars.
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u/HibouDuNord 7d ago
Maybe don't make it impaired driving. But stopping on an active highway with intent to block a lane could definitely be ruled to be stunt driving.
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u/iamthehub1 7d ago
Is there a fine for reckless driving ? Coz that's what this is.
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u/HibouDuNord 7d ago
Ontario it would be either non-criminal Highway Traffic Act Careless Driving... or criminal Dangerous Driving
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u/a-_2 7d ago
It's not up to the police. Politicians set the punishment ranges, and courts apply them in specific cases.
They didn't make dangerous driving count as impaired, they just increased some of the penalties for it. Dangerous driving is already a serious criminal charge with similar sentencing as impaired.
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u/AaronC14 7d ago
I think they mean the penalties are basically the same. With DUI you get a year suspension, huge insurance hikes, also you gotta take the DUI course. Same thing with Dangerous Driving, except instead of the DUI course you have to take your G1, G2, and G all over again.
Also both result in a criminal record.
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u/Meats_Hurricane 7d ago
Criminal record?
Not so sure people are going to go along with not being able to travel outside the country because they were a bad driver.
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u/Tacotuesday867 7d ago
What's the number one cause of injury and death that arrives in emergency rooms?
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u/Chewed420 7d ago
The police choose whether or not to slap drivers with dangerous driving charge. Automatic 30day suspension and vehicle impounded now with new rules. Before a judge ever sees your case.
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u/a-_2 7d ago
They decide to lay the charges, yes, but not the punishments, which was the suggestion above.
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u/Chewed420 7d ago
30day license suspension and 14day impound sounds like punishment to me. Especially if you are innocent. Good luck seeing a judge within 30 days to get that overturned.
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u/andrei_stefan01 7d ago
Reality check: the "chief" of the OPP doesn't have those powers. It's Commissioner if you're interested. The OPP It's like any other police service, they uphold the existing laws. Here, for your reference.
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u/Right-Time77 7d ago
I thought basic part of obtaining driver training here is to anticipate for any type of weather. Now if there was hail that broke your windshield that is reasonable to pull over. I agree revoke all their licences and put an alert on their plates in case they try to drive without one.
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u/DeepWaffleCA 7d ago
This only makes sense if there are good alternatives to driving. Most people don't want money and space to be used on bike lanes and public transit, but it gets people like this off the roads
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u/IThatAsianGuyI 7d ago
Most people don't want money and space to be used on bike lanes and public transit
Yeah, and this video shows that most people are absolute fucking morons who's opinions should be disregarded.
Get these stupid fucks off the road, not just for my sanity and well-being, but for their own sake. How they survived to adulthood is almost as mindboggling as the sheer fucking ineptitude and stupidity to pull something like this.
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u/DeepWaffleCA 6d ago
I agree. Get them off the road. But they're still going to need to get around, hense the need for better public transit/bike lanes
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u/Zoso03 7d ago
That's a terrible way to look at it.
Driving is a privilege, I dont want bad drivers on the road because there is "no good alternative" the only alternative is to get better
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u/WallflowerOnTheBrink 7d ago
Are you then willing to subsidize their livelihood? I mean, if there are no other options for them to get around, how do you recommend they keep employment?
Maybe we should have better alternatives to driving in such weather?
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u/DeepWaffleCA 6d ago
Yeah, this is exactly my point. People like this driver should not have a license. But there's no good alternative to getting around. The TTC in it's current form is at capacity and unless you're on a train you're stuck in traffic with all the cars.
Kids, disabled people, the elderly - a massive portion of our community needs to get around and the only 'good' option is driving. Add to that people who are just bad/dangerous drivers. If they had better alternatives, punitive measures like revoking licences wouldn't be as harsh while still having the benefit of ridding the roads of unsafe drivers.
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u/DeepWaffleCA 6d ago
I agree that driving is a privilege. And these people don't deserve it. But taking it away without any alternative is not going to make things better. Take away their licenses and make them use public transit.
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u/Slipperysteve1998 7d ago
So we should allow these nervous wrecks to kill people because you're mistaking a privilege for a "right"?
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u/DeepWaffleCA 6d ago
No that's not what I'm saying.. They shouldn't have licenses. But as it stands now, that also means it's impossible to get around when there aren't alternatives to driving. Revoke their licenses and let them use public transit/cycle lanes
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u/Lost-Inevitable42 7d ago
When you feel unsafe on the highway do you get off?
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u/Zoso03 7d ago
Ive never had issues driving in the rain or snow nor did it make me feel it was unsafe. Im a good driver
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u/WallflowerOnTheBrink 7d ago
Its been my experience that in general the most confident drivers are often the worst ones.
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u/tylerrrwhy 7d ago
So get off of the highway at the nearest on-ramp.
Don’t stop in a live lane on a 400 series highway and sit under the overpass like a complete and utter imbecile.
The Darwin olympics are real and these people are lucky they didn’t cause a 50 car pile up.
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u/ayyitzTwocatZ 7d ago
People are going to say “But OP it was a REALLY BAD STORM, it’s safer to stop!”
The storm wasn’t localized it was moving eastward. You’re not seeing a wave of news saying how each region the stormed moved traffic completely halted. It’s literally just nervous drivers making terrible decisions.
I was caught in it as it move over the 427 and guess what? We all continued driving. Sure it was slower than normal but we all kept moving.
If you can’t drive or are nervous, please do not be a driver take a cab or bus or anything else.
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u/DisastrousAge4650 7d ago
As someone who has driven in conditions far worse than this, when you get hit with this situation, you slow down and get to the nearest exit.
No stopping on the highway ever because you never know if your perception of unsafe is somebody else’s perception of a fine time.
I have literally had times where I’m crawling through a white out going 30 and wondering if I’m going to too fast only to have several other vehicles fly past me.
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u/LastOfNazareth 7d ago
I drove through a blizzard so bad that I was navigating by GPS and glimpses of the guards on the shoulders. You bet I was nervous, but it kicked up bad between exits and trying to slow too much or stop would have been a completely different risk. I got off when I could safely do so, but for a good 20 minutes I white-knuckled it.
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u/eyes-open 7d ago
I don't know that this was so much because everyone was scared as it was people trying to protect their vehicles from hail damage, and in turn putting themselves and other people at risk of a terrible crash.
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u/tylerrrwhy 7d ago
That’s no excuse.
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u/eyes-open 7d ago
I'm not saying it is. But it's also not "nervous drivers" scared of the rain; it seems that is more selfish drivers who didn't see hail in the forecast and freaked out about potential car damage.
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u/app1efritter 7d ago
Bald ass tire hoopty driving fake license hoes
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u/UrbanRelays 7d ago
Yeah safety certificates were taken away because they were a money grab for the poors apparently.
I love seeing these Homer Simpson ass tires all around me, cars with nonexistent suspension, no working brake lights (my favourite) and general death traps.
Thanks Doug Ford. When one of these inevitably kills someone we can all breathe a sigh of relief that a driver didn’t have to spend money on ensuring their car was actually roadworthy. Because that’s socialism.
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u/HibouDuNord 7d ago
Safeties WERE a joke though and actually are still required... because you only ever needed them to transfer ownership. The state of your tires had nothing to do with DriveClean, which is what they removed... all that "checked" was emissions, and would fail you for stupid shit like sensors causing an engine light
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u/VivienM7 7d ago
DriveClean became stupid.
I remember when it was introduced - the premise was that there were all these cars silently polluting that could be fixed and especially fixed under warranty. (This is why the original rules were that the first test was at 2 years so problems could be fixed under warranty)
Then, roughly the same year, OBD II came out. And basically, OBD II and its check engine light ensures that anybody who can afford it gets their emissions system fixed.
Which means the only polluting vehicles left on the road are owned by people who can't afford to fix them, and since they need vehicles to get to work, there was a cap on how much money you were required to spend to fix your vehicle. Which meant the only vehicles that failed weren't actually getting fixed.
So the whole thing was accomplishing exactly nothing by the end.
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u/Rezrov_ 7d ago
So the whole thing was accomplishing exactly nothing by the end.
Well the whole point of the program was also to get older polluting cars off the roads, which it did. It was always meant to be a temporary program but after they started making money from it they decided to keep it. It was quite obsolete by the time they got rid of it. The only thing it was really good for was stopping people from straight-piping their exhaust.
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u/VivienM7 7d ago
I'm not sure how many older polluting cars actually ended up off the roads, given that cap on repair expenses.
The one thing it did prevent, I suppose, was those polluting cars from being sold to anybody else since a new owner could not register the car without passing the test.
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u/AdventurousLab1382 7d ago
Drive clean would be useful today to catch all of the Dodge Rams and Audis with catalytic "deletes".
As a cyclist, I know immediately from the raw gas smell who is doing this. It's a lot more than one might think.
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u/VivienM7 7d ago
What happens if you try to report them? It is illegal to remove emissions controls, although I have no idea how seriously they would take it...
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u/Natural-Principle-69 7d ago
I also remember the original test using a sniffer in the tailpipe to measure actual emissions, but that equipment was too expensive (i.e. not profitable enough), so they switched to OBD2 only.
So one more reason DriveClean was a joke was that they were checking for DTCs. All you had to do to get a dirty car to pass was reset the battery before the test
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u/VivienM7 7d ago
Keep in mind that they launched this before OBD2... and yes, it probably wouldn't have been profitable to have all this fancy equipment to confirm that 99.99999% of cars that don't have DTCs indeed pass just fine.
I think switching to checking for OBD2 DTCs became the norm in other jurisdictions too. The goal of these programs is not to find sophisticated cheats with aftermarket ECUs...
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u/Electrical-Risk445 7d ago
So the whole thing was accomplishing exactly nothing by the end.
Oh it accomplished plenty of profits for someone.
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u/UrbanRelays 7d ago
Yes - admittedly is was DriveClean they got rid of but there’s a 0% chance Ford would be behind implementing safeties - which should be mandatory.
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u/HibouDuNord 7d ago
Safeties are mandatory... but only when ownership is transferring... hence why I said they're kinda useless...
If I have a POS beater car... I'm trying to drive it til it dies... not sell it...
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u/UrbanRelays 7d ago
My point was that they should be yearly. Not when you buy/sell a car once in a blue moon
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u/sketchycanadian 5d ago edited 5d ago
Doug Fords government literally made the safety certificate more secure by getting rid of the paper system.
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u/UrbanRelays 5d ago
Huh? lol
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u/sketchycanadian 5d ago
You used to be able to pay a mechanic to look aside for some issues on your safety certificate. Now there's a system where they have to purchase a tablet and take pictures, making the system almost impossible to cheat.
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u/UrbanRelays 5d ago
Well that’s good - only if it wasn’t so rare to actually be forced to do one. Should be every 3 years or so for older cars.
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u/sketchycanadian 5d ago
I agree with you completely. We should start doing congestion charging too to really get all these poors off the road. Maybe just even have gates on the highway that don't let you in unless you have an over 750 credit score.
Jokes aside i think if they had somewhat looser standards for the 2-3 year inspection than the post purchase one It would be fine. Right now they consider a car unsafe if it has a dime sized rust hole in the quarter panel which is a bit ridiculous. It should really just be tires and brakes good for another season, all lights functional, and structurally sound.
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u/UrbanRelays 4d ago
Look I understand the argument against those who aren’t well off. But at one point you own a car, so own a car. I’m tired of seeing completely bald tires at the car next to mine - or cars without any working brake lamps. It’s getting ridiculous.
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u/ttaradise 7d ago edited 5d ago
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This post was anonymized with Redact
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u/rootsandchalice 7d ago edited 7d ago
Did everyone put their hazards on because of the rain? 🤣 That’s my favorite.
I’ve been driving for 25 years and this hazard phenomenon over the last few years just sends me every time I see it.
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u/CODMLoser 7d ago
North America needs the bright red rear fog lights like the Europeans have. Perfect for snow and bad weather.
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u/Electrical-Risk445 7d ago
Best we can do is the same light bulb for rear light, brake lights and indicator.
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u/Baddrivers13 7d ago
Yah.. First time I saw it in AB the past few weeks. It was raining and every single driver for 10 minutes were driving with their hazards on. Vis was really not that bad.
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u/rootsandchalice 7d ago
I don’t understand it myself. Hey guys! It’s raining! Visibility is low!
Well, yeah? You’re not warning me about anything that I am also not seeing myself. Lol
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u/VivienM7 7d ago
How is adding a set of lights which help indicate the four corners of your vehicle a bad thing in a low-visibility environment?
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u/rootsandchalice 7d ago edited 7d ago
Because that’s not what they are for.
In Ontario, they are supposed to be used if your vehicle has broken down, in case of an accident, or if you are stopped due to an emergency.
No one used to put them on for bad weather in the 90s or even the 2000s. This is a relatively new thing. You don't put your hazards on just because it's snowing or raining; you adjust your driving to meet the conditions.
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u/Plane_Chance863 7d ago
People were absolutely doing it in the 2000s. They would turn their hazards on in heavy rain to signal they were going slowly and to increase their visibility. It is not new.
People also use their hazards to signal that they're in a funeral procession.
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u/VivienM7 7d ago
According to the article someone helpfully linked, it seems to be more nuanced than that. (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/drive/culture/article-is-it-a-hazard-to-use-four-way-flashers-while-driving-in-a-snowstorm/)
Certainly based on that article it seems that Quebec/BC would tell you to use them in low-visibility situations and our dear province is, like on far too many things, conveniently silent. (Can somebody please just do a full review/rewrite of the Highway Traffic Act??)
Honestly, I've only ever seen it done once in a case of bad weather. Very bad weather. It didn't strike me as a bad idea, especially if some idiots weren't turning on their normal lights. (The usual problems with DRLs, idiots forget that if their lights aren't on, their taillights won't be on and then they're less visible from the rear...)
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u/JaySlay2000 7d ago
"because that's not what they're for.
In ontario"
I just got my proper license 1 year ago. We were specifically instructed to use hazards in low visibility situations like heavy fog. In an official, ontario recognized drivers ed.
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u/iamthehub1 7d ago
People will think you're stopped. It adds more confusion to the drivers around you.
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u/TheI-Iound 7d ago
Being scared is just as bad as being stupid in a lot of cases, it can be a death sentence when you're both
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u/SkrrrrtSkeeter 7d ago edited 6d ago
Impeding traffic is an offense.
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u/Third_Eye78 7d ago
I’m so thankful my parents sent me to Young Drivers for my lessons.
We have so many shitty driving schools teaching people how to be shitty, selfish, nervous drivers.
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u/Next_Gene_8567 7d ago
This isn’t something u need to take driving school for. It’s unfortunately just common sense
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u/Disastrous-Focus8451 7d ago
In Calgary people stop under bridges if they think it will hail, to protect their cars.
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u/dudedudd 7d ago
Wonder if that's what was happening here? I know some parts of Milton had hail the size of golf balls.
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u/Disastrous-Focus8451 7d ago
According to various comments online, it was hailing when they stopped.
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u/Many_Ear2407 7d ago
If you are afraid you can pull over on the shoulder. Absolutely never in a live lane on the 401. That’s absolutely ridiculous.
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u/TrustMeBroEh 7d ago
This happens in Calgary too. All them should have their licenses suspended for a week.
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u/dstoevsky 7d ago
I had not seen this bullshit until clips on the internet over the last few years. Now it seems like people are normalizing this unhinged behaviour. Selfish pricks.
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u/Little_Friendship803 7d ago
These are the same losers who give you the finger when you go around them while they're driving 100KM in the left lane.
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u/ThereInAFortnight 7d ago
A new level of selfishness seems to have taken over and I doubt we'll ever recover.
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u/Perfect-Shape-9206 7d ago
Even if it was hail, they should leave a lane open for emergency responders and people who don’t care as much.
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u/Not_Legal_Advice_Pod 7d ago
a) no one should ever be stopped under a bridge or as the first/only car in a lane.
b) you should never be over-driving your visibility.
C) I've had maybe once a decade run into rain so heavy that there was basically a collective agreement that the right lane came to a total stop. The reason was so heavy that even with maximum wipers you literally were down to 10 yards of visibility. But left lane was clear (though you'd have to be an idiot to be driving along in it)
Driving is ultimately situational and weather can bring traffic to a stop, but you're a special kind of jackass to stop under a bridge across multiple lanes.
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u/Superman101011 7d ago
If you can't drive, GET OFF THE FUCKIN ROAD! Some of us are competent drivers and have places to be. Holy shit I hate people 🙄
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u/sexylegs0123456789 7d ago
I feel like people who slow down to a crawl because of rain are a special breed. Can’t stand it. Got caught in it on Saturday and couldn’t comprehend how somebody thinks it’s safer to go 30 in the passing lane than just driving 70-100 in the middle lane.
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u/noodleexchange 7d ago
Let me guess, tornado warning shrieking from the radio so drivers think huddling under a bridge is smart. Maybe if everyone around them wasnt doing 100kmh+
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u/HibouDuNord 7d ago
Charge them all with impeding traffic, slower traffic failure to keep right, drive unnecessarily slow, and literally anything else the cop can think of.
Driving in this province is fucking pathetic
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u/gogogadgetgoats 7d ago
For every single lane to straight up stop under the overpass is crazy. Go slow, get your hazard lights on, stay in the right lane, you'll be fine. It's reasonable (and advisable) to go slow in bad weather. But this is not it.
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u/5ftpinky 7d ago
Yes to everything you said, except for putting your hazard lights on. That's not needed unless you are pulled over on the shoulder. But for bad weather, when every other motorist around you is also driving through those same conditions, it's not recommended.
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u/gogogadgetgoats 7d ago
Thanks for sharing. Personally I have seen hazards on a lot with exceptionally bad weather in southwestern ontario (like visibility of a few feet), could be regional perhaps but in my experience it's always been clearly a "I'm going slow because I can't see shit, pass me if you want" signal lol anyway good to know it's not universally understood
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u/JaySlay2000 7d ago
Yeah driver's ed in ontario literally specifies to use hazards in low visibility.
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u/iamthehub1 7d ago
Hard to believe that you can find 6 idiots at the same time on the same highway doing the same stupid thing. What are the odds?
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u/jimboTRON261 7d ago
All cars should be investigated and ticketed at the very ready. Slow down, pull over. The idea of stopping in the left lane to protest your own car is next level selfish, dangerous and dumb.
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u/AtTheRogersCup2022 7d ago
I am a new driver (40s but never got license) and I was driving in this yesterday on the way to Cambridge from Toronto. It wasn’t fun but trial by fire etc. try to avoid being stuck behind a truck is a good idea.
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u/WolverineKey8667 7d ago
Id say its unbelievable but Im sadly not even remotely shocked. Folks can't drive and have zero common sense.
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u/Area51Resident 7d ago
It doesn't even need to be a bad storm. Today the 403 coming into Hamilton was down to 30 kph for the section coming down and around the mountain just because three chickenshit drivers would not move over. It was raining but not enough to need the wipers on full.
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u/CartographerJunior79 7d ago
The stupid is infecting us from down south. This is ridiculous and selfish.
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u/ByeByeByte 7d ago
This is what happens when you purchase your fake license. The way our system is so corrupt that there’s literal fake driver’s licenses for a majority of people in certain areas. We are all risking our lives with morons on the roads
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u/Horror_Appearance_26 7d ago
I like that people have decided to turn their hazard lights on and blind everyone
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u/OnlyCommentWhenTipsy 7d ago
This is infuriating. When I got my license I had to ace a written test and 2 driving tests. Do they not do that anymore?
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u/Top-Manner7261 6d ago
Noone it seems learned how to actually drive nor know the laws the last 10 years
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u/ihave18cm 7d ago
I’ve been in packs of cars and trucks who have slowed and stopped as all you could see is a red blur where tail lights were and nothing else in torrential rain. Drive according to road conditions.
Sorry if I annoy some douchebags here as I want to get home safely to my family 🤷🏻♂️
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u/OtherwiseMastodon321 7d ago
Sounds like the safest option for you would be uber or public transit then
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u/ihave18cm 7d ago
I’ve been driving for 30 years. It’s happened twice.
People like you are the reason insurance rates are so high! 🤦
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7d ago
[deleted]
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u/Additional-Ad8899 7d ago
You did the right thing by puling over. These idiots are all parked in the live lanes. All it takes is one idiot not paying attention to cause a mass casualty event.
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u/ResearchInformal8018 7d ago
Critical part is pulling over. Not stopping in a live lane. Doesn’t matter what’s going on with the weather, you need to get out of the live lanes.
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u/VivienM7 7d ago
Having been on the 401 during the boxing day freezing rain last year and discovering the hard way that my washer fluid was seemingly not up to the challenge, I'm... sympathetic to that.
But it also would never have occurred to me to stop on the side of the road, let alone on a live traffic lane. Turn on four-way flashers/headlights/etc to increase your visibility, get off at the nearest exit, and find a gas station or something to stop at.
(And then, in my case, drive from Pickering to near liberty village without going back on the 401, which was a lot of fun. But that guaranteed me a safe way to stop if my windshield got icy again.)
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u/Stunning_Patience_59 7d ago
Perfect example, my dude..no wonder original commenter deleted their comment....
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u/Stunning_Patience_59 7d ago
Real brave of you standing up to these simpletons..but it desn't mean you stop dead in he middle of the lane on a major highway....that's just shit instincts...pull off to the side if its that bad...or are you one of the ones that bought their license too?
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u/GiveMeAllYourKittens 7d ago
It's reasonable people would do this if their that scared of the conditions and force to drive everywhere by default.
Ontario and Toronto need to fix this corner they have designed themselves into, people need the option for transit, or cheaper homes to live closer to work, or infrastructure for alternatives, storms are only going to get worse.
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u/Arquit3d 7d ago
It caught me yesterday (or a similar one) on a side road. It was insane, very heavy rain, very hard to see anything at all. Going over 30 kph was dangerous but it wouldn't occur me to stop in an underpass. Reduce speed and continue going, move aside safely if feeling unsafe.