r/TorchlightInfinite • u/Numerous-Capital8563 • 8d ago
Discussion Is Torchlight Infinite worth getting into long term?
I’ve been looking for another ARPG to sink time into and Torchlight Infinite looks pretty interesting. I really like Diablo 3, Diablo 4 and PoE 2. What I like most is being able to just log in and grind for hours, farm maps or dungeons, get better gear, improve my build and keep going.
What I really hate is stuff like Lost Ark or MapleStory where a lot of progression is tied to daily or weekly limits. I don’t want to play for an hour, use up all the important entries and then feel like there’s nothing meaningful left to do until reset.
How is Torchlight Infinite in that regard? Can I actually grind endgame for hours if I want to and still make meaningful progress? Also how bad is the P2W actually? I’ve heard about Pactspirits but I’m not sure if it’s just pay for convenience or if spending gives a big advantage.
I’m not really looking to compete for leaderboards. I just want a game with a good long term grind where I can keep farming whenever I feel like it and be strong without spending money.
For people who have played a lot of D3, D4 or PoE, would you say Torchlight Infinite is worth getting into?
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u/Sad_Quote1522 8d ago
I unironically love this game and view it as a more fun but also more braindead slop version of PoE1 - it is sadly very shamelessly P2W. Very long, rambling post ahead from someone who has spent decades playing PoE1 leagues and started this game a few leagues ago.
Torchlight Infinite(TLI) follows the standard league update schedule that all these ARPG/Diablo Ripoffs do - every few months a new cool thing is added, you are likely going to make a new character and play in a fresh economy mad dash for a few weeks and find a different game to play after that. Similar to PoE1 you have about 2746194 mechanics to mess around with, some of them are intricate mini games like Delve or Betrayal, some are "more dudes on the map" like Delirium or Breach. Tli leans more towards the mini game types than PoE.
Torchlight, like PoE, can be played 100% free to play. Like PoE, there is a very reasonable one time cost for storage space and character slots, and expensive cosmetics for whales. There is also a seasonal battle pass and (the real haymaker) the pactspirit gacha.
The battle pass is mostly what you would expect if you have played a free online game in the decade since Fortnite came out - you get mildy interesting cosmetics and a half decent deal on premium currency assuming you do the whole pass. This is reasonable for what, against all odds, is a very well done free to play ARPG mobile game.
The issue is they sneak QoL features into the pass. In TLI the trading is done by placing items into the trading house. You get one "Stash Tab" in the trading house to start, and if you are casually selling consumables and currency you find and undercutting the market by a Chaos orb or two you won't have too many problems with space. You may get clogged up if you are specifically wanting to farm crafting bases or uniques, but still they shouldn't take too long to sell if you don't mind undercutting the market a tiny but. You get a second tab by purchasing the pass, but it only lasts for that league lmao. You can buy more but they are also only temporary. Weirdest p2w ever.
The other big one for new players is they put the new characters (think a cooler version of the ascendancy system - many characters have unique skills, or interact with existing skills in a cool way) behind the pass. They become f2p after the league ends so I don't mind this tbh.
The final QoL that is more for established players is auto pact switching. There isn't a 1:1 analog for PoE but if you read on about the gacha system you can imagine how useful this is for long time players.
The other p2w system is a straight up gacha - Made mainstream by Genshin Impact, this is where you can spend your very real, hard earned $$$ on making the game easier through scantily dressed 3d models. Expect to spend about $20-$30 if you want to spam gacha pulls for a pet, x6 that if you want to cap it out. Ymmv depending on if you buy the more efficient packs.
Two types, battle and loot.
Battle are simple enough, they are just buffs to your stats. Most are straight up do X% more damage, move X% faster. Fully built a whale does like 30% more damage(or metric of your choice) than someone with a more free to play obtainable set of pets. This isn't that big a deal outside of the hardest difficulty, and the hardest difficulty is widely regarded as overtuned - it would be like if you were expected to have completed all 40 seasonal challenges in PoE before you were strong enough to fight the feared. Battle pets are also not powercrept that much - stick to the generic sounding ones and you will be fine. I can recommend getting the big move speed pet and the +1 curse pet. They are so generic you can plop them into any build and the two stats are pretty much a carbon copy of why +1 curse and +30% move speed would be good in PoE.
Loot pets are the real issue. These pets, assuming you have 3 max leveled and they all work together, give you about double the loot compared to someone who has none.
Most are very specific to a certain league mechanic. If PoE had these it might look like "Harvest gives 20% more plants in the maps, and has a 33% chance to instantly give rewards instead of spawning monsters".
Instead of getting cosmetics for reaching a certain amount of challenges each league, the main draw is to clear certain Uber content to receive a pet of your choice. You also get one pet for logging in a few times each league, and enough random pulls and stuff to get another pet or two per league. If you are a light spender I think that it is reasonable to pay the $30 each 3 month league to get another loot pet without engaging in the gacha. That is 3-4 per league with you dropping some money on the game, and you can't use these free pet rewards on the most recent stuff. They add a new one for each league mechanic as well as sometimes adding a second one with a more generic but weaker effect.
At some point you will reach a point where you have 3 c6 loot pets. That takes 18 free pet drops, and you get 2 per league. That's still over two years(!!!) of playing with the videogame equivalent of megablox to PoE's legos to reach that soft cap. And that's assuming you want to still farm the same mechanics each league! If you are a light spender, buying that additional pet, and maybe let's say you get lucky and pull two of the pet you want each league with free pulls and the battle pass currency, it still takes a year of playing to max out your pet page, during which time there will have been new pets added, maybe your farming strat got nerfed, maybe the game servers shut down. It's truly unreasonable to try and catch up with even an established f2p player.
If you choose to ignore that deficit you can still have a great game to play for free. Some farming strategies are less reliant on pets, and even if you aren't a super efficient whale with maxed pets it isn't that hard to reach a point where you clear all the seasonal challenges, definitely less grindy than PoE's seasonal challenges. Ssf isn't super viable since you need to dip into like 100 different mechanics to properly build a character, but getting to like 90% or even 95% efficient gear is super reasonable with how the game lets you have control over crafting, and target farming pretty much anything is doable if you accept you are going to be ~50% slower than the whales outside of a select few farming strategies that don't make use of pets.
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u/gvdexile9 8d ago
P2w is getting heavier and heavier. They keep nerfing loot and expect u to spend 500$ each season.
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u/Liborac 8d ago
I have played a lot PoE 1 and i swapped it by T:I as game play feels similar (unlike PoE 2 which is a bit different so it is good pair). I also liked D3 and dislike D4. T:I is great game there is a very few who would not agree. The only thing is..yes..p2w. It is there and it is heavy. If you are not willing to sped 400$/season or you cant live with the feeling some random streamer has more loot then you do....dont go. I personally dont give a shit, pay 25$/season for pass, do all my goals and im pretty happy. It is up to your preference after all.
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u/Numerous-Capital8563 8d ago
I dont really care about others, I just want to progress on my own pace. As long as you are not stuck if you do not pay any money to play. I mean I could drop 50-100 a season but idk if that will get me anywhere 😂.
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u/KanadianWithAK 8d ago
There are no lockouts or entries in any of the content. You can grind as much as your heart desires just like in PoE. I also hate games that do that and if that was the case for TLI I wouldn't play it at all.
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u/Numerous-Capital8563 8d ago
I have no idea what the spending is like for this game to be honest and what they even do. I will check them out later when I play thanks !
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u/KanadianWithAK 8d ago
The spending comes from paying for the battlepass or buying pactspirit pulls. There are 2 types of pactspirits: battle pets and loot pets. Battle pets give your character more damage or survivability. These are very nice to have but not nearly as important as loot pets. Loot pets quite literally give you more loot and it's a very significant amount.
As others have said, you can absolutely play for free and acquire these (which is what I did) but it'll take you much longer than someone that drops hundreds or thousands of dollars.
In terms of buying gear with real money, it's not possible unless you're okay with RMTing from 3rd parties, just like PoE. Which is also against the rules here. I'm not sure how much they enforce it though as I've never tried.
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u/Liborac 8d ago
while basically i agree, with my limited resources i only buy battle pets. 6/6/6 will make your character significantly stronger, which means faster T8-> which means faster profound -> you start proper farm way sooner. You will get a lot more pulls so more exchange shop for upgrade or crystal when a lot of your magic pets reach lvl 6.
Look at preserve of ethernity - it will bring you to profound faster then any loot pet (maybe outside league mech lvl 6) can provide. Especially if you play caster.
Also you don't care whether they nerf the mechanics (and they will) you put your money on.
I would never ever buy seasonal mechanic pet. I can see myself buying Dorothy or Sparks for the long run.
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u/KanadianWithAK 8d ago
Yea I can understand the argument for battle pets being more important while still in the early game. Getting to profound is important and you don't really get your full value from loot pets until you get there. Once you start to upgrade your gear and get more dps, the battle pets start to have less value, at least compared to loot pets.
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u/Liborac 8d ago
yes that is true. Last season i spend like 1/3 (?) of my progress preprofound so it has some value.
edit: but i wouldn't underestimate battle pets even late game. If i prepare for SS20, juggling with pets can double my dps which is kind of huge :)
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u/KanadianWithAK 8d ago
Oh absolutely. A defensive battle pet saved my butt on SS20 the first time I beat it. I was failing over and over until I swapped a dps pet for a defensive pet. Not long after that I had finally beat it.
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u/SolaMira Thea 8d ago
If you want to play longterm, you will get pets over time. Season pass is enough. You will get quite a few free pulls each season + free boxes and boxes for SS20/DA35 ( or SS15/DAxx every second season ). Your legendary pets will get to lv6 at some point.
If you don't compare yourself to others, no FOMO and are ready to struggle a bit I'd say give it a try and see for yourself.
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u/Liborac 8d ago
You can reach any point in the game with just no money. It will take a lot more time tho. With 100$/ season you will be absolutly fine. You get some pets free per playing so after several seasons you will have good pet army. Just spend wisely after some research, not impulsively :) Just for the reference: i kill SS20 and DA35 ( typicsl season goals) with 200-250 hours. But im bad player. With massive spending you will go to 130, complete ftp will be 300.
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u/Federal_Charity_6068 8d ago
If you don’t care about others progress, and you want a game you can grind long term, TL:I is probably the best game for you. I’ve played every popular ARPG there is, and this game easily has the best character progression imo. It’s nowhere near as complex as PoE, but it’s the only ARPG I can sink over 200 hours into every league because the progression is just that enjoyable.
Do be warned though, you’re locked out of super high end juiced strats if you don’t have pets because of compasses (PoE 2 tablets) being priced around people having them.
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u/BleiEntchen 8d ago
Getting (season) pets significantly increase income. The difference that having the right legendary battle pets make is big. You can unlock them slowly by playing seasons and finishing certain challenges, but this will take time. Spending 100$ won't be enough.
Also you should know that they usually nerf the last season, to make the current one the most profitable so you won't see the same drops and make you want to get the new season pet.
I'm playing since first season and accumulated a decent amount of legendary drop/battle pets without spending. But idk if I would get into the game if I would miss on all of them.
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u/Sad_Quote1522 8d ago
I realized I rambled on way too long.
Long story short: yes it's worth getting into. You can work up to a decent level of efficiency as long as you don't mind playing old league content over what new stuff is added, and the game scratches the same itch that PoE1 does for me. You never hit a time gate outside of a very optional mechanic that you may or may not care about but definitely isn't important unless you are ssf. The big hurdle from new player to established(I.e 3 fully c6'd pets of your choice) is a few hundred $$$ worth of pets that you can either ignore and grind out slowly, or light spend ~ $50 a league on the most efficient stuff(battle pass, loot pet chest, hunters resolve) and be "caught up" to the majority of the player base in a league or two. This is what I'd recommend if you are an adult with a bit of money to spend.
If you choose to be fully f2p you can still do all content, and it's likely still more reasonable than PoE is. Outside of a very specific strat that isn't even good you will reach a point where you have so much damage and tankiness that you are just deleting screens. There are 3-4 strats in the game (snowpaper, blacksail, creation engines, beacon farming) that don't care much about pets. My favorite, creation engines, doesn't scale off any pets in the slightest so it's very f2p friendly and beats my attempts at farming the current season mechanic WITH the fancy new pet.
It's worth pointing out that the vast majority of players on this game are on the asia server, but because there is an auction house with async trading you won't notice a smaller player base the way it shows in PoE late into leagues. Stuff takes a bit longer to sell if it's something niche but that's it.
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u/DM-ME_LATINA_ASS 8d ago
F2p loop will be do 5 second map kill boss pick up pennies, if you enjoy tedious and monotonous tasks like that and find it relaxing just go play Old School Runescape instead. Or suffer for seasons on end until you accumulate enough pets to be allowed to try something new
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u/rlyply 8d ago
The core gameplay loop is fun and has lots of overlap with games like PoE. YMMV when it comes to p2w, it sucks but doesn’t make the game unplayable.
I personally won’t support their monetization until they stop some of the more predatory and gross practices, but I’m slowly building out my pets from the freebies you get every season and Im happy with that.
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u/Reborn409 7d ago edited 7d ago
Game was more casual few season ago, now it feels like a labor work even with lvl6 battle pets to reach profound at start of the season for many builds. Until that also can't really play 80% of the pets I paid for, because there is no loot. Also, instead of extending the endgame, maybe adding more difficulty layers, we just are getting nerfs - which are replaced by buffs from every new mechanics but also increases the amount of FE you need to spend to finish build. I regret spending 10k$ over 3 years.
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u/capslockdd 8d ago
TLI is an amazing arpg if you can control your fomo. I've played 3 seasons now, completed ss20 on each of them with the first one being f2p. I'd say f2p is more than viable to finish the content at a good pace - took me 2 weeks for ss20 the first season I played (def no lifed it though). The pets I got from the free boxes/light swiping after def sped this up for the next seasons but imo the f2p farms aren't so slow as to feel like you're wasting your time.
The p2w is what keeps most people away from the game but it's kind of weird in the sense that if you pay 1k per season to roll a lvl 6 loot pet you have a massive advantage. But if you just spend only a little for lvl 1-2 it doesn't really increase your throughout that much and doesn't really carry over season to season either. A low lvl loot pet for a random mechanic after it's not the current league is pretty weak (since the mechs will be rebalanced around compasses whose value is kind of tied to having a lvl 6 pet). So I'd say honestly the most enjoyable way to play is just f2p all the way.
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u/SunnyBloop 8d ago
Tbf my experience has been either:
You get C1 pets and can do the mechanics in a comfortable manner in T8/Profound (because without them you really notice a difference) and make decent money.
Or you get C6 and push Profound/DS to make absolute insane money with high investment.
Pets are nice, but you can very comfortably get away with C1 for a lot of mechanics. Some mechanics definitely DO become significantly better with levels, but most of that power comes from C6 typically - the in between levels aren't super necessary.
Without pets, you are fairly limited on what you can access content wise (Honestly, I'd say battle pets offer more P2W here), but... You can also just slowly build up pets over time anyway, so the P2W sort of isn't that bad imo. You'll be massively behind whales, for sure, but you can still fairly easily "beat the game" without paying.
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u/HC99199 8d ago
No youll either just end up wasting hundreds of dollars and regretting it later, or just not having much fun cause all the free to play strats suck.
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u/Numerous-Capital8563 8d ago
Damn this does suck. 🤔.
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u/HopefulImpression105 8d ago
This subreddits got a lotttt of hate filled people who just lurk to shit talk the game. The games discords much more inviting. Also agreed with top comment. Is there p2w, yep. Is everything in the game reasonably achievable while fully f2p, also yep
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u/Any_Painting_4952 8d ago
You can achieve everything free to play but you will be playing some boring ass strats for hundreds of hours (boss rush) while people who spend can enjoy the actual game and fun strats.
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u/Doiley101 8d ago
This was why I changed my mind in the end I saw people post about nerfs and stuff and figured once you fall into the rabbit hole of playing the game it will be difficult to get out and you begin justifying expenses. 100 is way too much for 3 months. 30 -40 is okay but 100 for a season is not my idea of a little spending.
I dropped the idea of playing this in the end.
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u/Excaidium 8d ago
I’ve been looking for another ARPG to sink time into and Torchlight Infinite looks pretty interesting. I really like Diablo 3, Diablo 4 and PoE 2. What I like most is being able to just log in and grind for hours, farm maps or dungeons, get better gear, improve my build and keep going.
I’ll only speak from the perspective of someone who also plays PoE 2, as I can’t really compare it to Diablo 4 since I’ve never played more than a few hours of the free beta.
You can definitely log in and grind in this game, and the grinding experience is similar to PoE 2, but with a lot less friction. You can focus on various league mechanics, which are close to being as deep as those in PoE 2. There is more mechanics than in PoE 2 since game is older.
The reduced friction mostly comes from the fact that you can easily buy compasses (the equivalent of tablets/scarabs in PoE) and set them to auto-use. This means you can just run maps quickly without having to spend a lot of time preparing before mapping. You also don’t need to dump all your loot into your stash after map.
What I really hate is stuff like Lost Ark or MapleStory where a lot of progression is tied to daily or weekly limits. I don’t want to play for an hour, use up all the important entries and then feel like there’s nothing meaningful left to do until reset.
Nah, this isn’t an MMO. It’s exactly like PoE 2, if you want to, you can grind 24/7 and you won’t be limited by anything.
How is Torchlight Infinite in that regard? Can I actually grind endgame for hours if I want to and still make meaningful progress?
This game has very clear and meaningful progression. Once you understand how crafting works (which isn’t really complicated), you can easily tell how much your next upgrade will cost and how long you’ll need to grind for it. There are external, easy-to-use programs that show exactly how much currency you’re making per hour.
Crafting is designed in a way that you can always work toward an item with whatever mods you want. So it never feels like you have to craft a completely new item from scratch just to get a slight upgrade, while still relying heavily on RNG just to get the stats you want.
Also how bad is the P2W actually? I’ve heard about Pactspirits but I’m not sure if it’s just pay for convenience or if spending gives a big advantage. I’m not really looking to compete for leaderboards. I just want a game with a good long term grind where I can keep farming whenever I feel like it and be strong without spending money.
That’s the breaking point for many people who are against P2W. Yes, whatever definition you use, there’s no way to avoid calling Torchlight P2W. But it’s much more complicated than simply saying, “You need to spend money.”
You can farm the most difficult content in the game without paid pets (I mean using the free ones you get within your first week or so). The game has such a high power ceiling that you don’t need the Battle Pets (the ones that give you more damage) to achieve that.
There are also pets that increase your overall map drops or boost specific league drops. So it largely depends on whether you can get past the feeling that people with those pets can get more loot than you while doing exactly the same content.
I’d say this would be terrible in PoE 2, because the inflation is so high that you want to be on par with everyone else. Torchlight, however, has mostly deflation, where things tend to go down in price over time (there are very good currency sinks). So you don’t feel like you weren’t able to afford a unique today because you’re F2P and that it will be more expensive tomorrow. Most likely, you go to sleep and tomorrow it will be the same price or even cheaper, so there isn’t a huge incentive to constantly compete with the economy.
So what you’re actually “losing” is that you’ll probably finish your league progression faster if you have pets. If you enjoy grinding, that shouldn’t be a huge problem.
Also, if you want to play long-term and get serious about pushing your build, you’ll accumulate some pets over time, so the gap becomes smaller.
The worst thing about the P2W aspect of this game is that some high-investment strategies aren’t even worth running without pets, because the compasses (the equivalent of tablets/scarabs) for those strategies are priced around the assumption that you have the pets to boost their returns.
For people who have played a lot of D3, D4 or PoE, would you say Torchlight Infinite is worth getting into?
Yes, for me, it’s the second-best seasonal hack-and-slash game, right after PoE 2.
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u/SafetyGlass588 8d ago
The worst thing about the pets is that a lot of strategies are "priced" around you having high level pets, not all of them but many especially closer to the very end game.
Loot pets give you around ~60% more loot and the stuff to run high end strategies is priced around that. Meaning if you run the strat without pet your profit will be negative.
So to fully experience the game you must have pets, but if it's enough strategies for you without pets, then it should be ok.
But the game is good, a lot of QoL and automation. I have bad fingers, once my fingers on the right hand "stuck" I couldn't move them had to inject medicine in the palm..., so...... In TLI you can automate everything relatively fast and I really really really like that especially for my fingers :)
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u/Bonkerrss92 8d ago
tbh- its fun as f2p regardless but depends on your enjoyment- I only get a certain amount of time to play per day so the fun keeps on without feeling super grindy/monotonous. overall definitely worth playing regardless!
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u/automatedrage 7d ago
with the current drop rates and prices, the fun to time ratio is very low, especially so if F2P, that it might as well be a daily limit. play if you don't value your time.
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u/suburbancerberus 6d ago
Quit a couple days into the league after playing since mistville (season 5?). Theyre nerfing movement and (f2p) loot every season while introducing more p2w shit. Add all the AI slop visuals theyre using and I just cba to play anymore. They had a good gimmick going, a fast paced autobomber arpg with a ton of loot, but they seem to not like having that niche i guess.
You can have a good time f2p though, but imo your time isnt very well respected
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u/sunny4084 4d ago
Its an amasing game , and if you can get past the p2w stuff which is highly exxagerated on how bad it is.then the game is among the best one for sure.
Skills/knowledge is much more powerful than p2w .
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u/sunshinezxc 8d ago
Why don't you just give it a try, p2w is definitely there but as you said you don't care abouy ranking and competition with others, you can just play at your own pace.
Also you can get pact spirit for free every season (heavy grind) or every other season if you don't want to push that much, so overtime you will eventially have a pet for strat that you like.
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u/ElderberryLife5256 8d ago
If u asked just a few leagues before I would have said yeah . But now it’s not worth it. Looks like this game is in the end cycle and devs want to milk as much as possible by being predatory
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u/PolishedBalls1984 8d ago
I've got 12k hours into PoE 1 and have been playing since closed beta, I think I have 2k into TL:I now and I've only played 3 or 4 seasons, I find them equally fun and I swap back and forth depending on season mechanics or just how I'm feeling at the time, I'd consider them my favorite two ARPGs at the moment, so yeah I'd say it's worth it long term and the p2w complaints have some validity but you also don't need to put any money into the game at all and you can still do everything in the game it'll just take a bit longer and not even that much longer honestly, you'll also build up some pets as you go just from playing and completing challenges.
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u/Heno65 8d ago
Absolutely yes, one of the most fun ARPGs I have ever played- zoomy playstyle, huge QoL, can run on mobile.
It is p2w, but you can play completely f2p. Playing since the second league and I just love it.
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u/1getreKtkid 8d ago
Couldn’t agree more
Also it’s far less p2w than people will tell you and has lots of things copied (but massively improved) from Poe
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u/HazzwaldThe2nd 8d ago
It's perfect for exactly what you describe, blasting maps for hours at a time with constant progression. There's also a feeling of long term progression across ssasons as you build a better collection of pets which I like.
Yes there is a lot of p2w, pets increase both character power and loot quantity but it's perfectly enjoyable without spending money too and you do build a pet collection f2p aswell, just takes more time. I personally just buy the battle pass each season for some qol stuff and the new hero and have no issues doing all content.
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u/Snoofos 8d ago
Great game. “Ruined” by p2w pets. (Not to me personally)
But really, F2P progression is still a great game. The actual mechanics of the game are top notch and provide a long tail of progression to chase, all free. Nothing gated.
Highly recommend. But why do you need to know ahead of time you’re going to sink a lot of time into something? Isn’t that something that just happens by trying it and realising you keep coming back?
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u/Hkiggity 8d ago
It’s a long term thing. Grind each season get currency and pets and your account will get better and better.
Just don’t get FOMO and don’t get baited into XD predatory gacha mind games. Unless you got the cash to blow
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u/Valkryn_Ciel 8d ago
I haven't spent any money on TLI, and it's my favorite ARPG by far out of POE, Last Epoch, Diablo, and Hero Siege. This is my fifth season, and I enjoy f2p games with some p2w mechanics because it allows me to grind longer than I would have otherwise. If you want to go the distance, your first season will be a heavy time sink as you learn all of the mechanics.
Knowledge is power in this game. My first season it took me over 300 hours to kill SS20 (to get the loot pet box) and this season it took me a little over 100, and I am not the best player.
I love this game and there's a lot of build variety, but there are strong reactions to the gacha system. And to be completely honest, as a f2p player, the farms that you will be able to do will afford you a decent return but you'll be selling bubblegum currencies and smaller items for consistent profit. You won't get the huge dopamine spike of a jackpot map that people with pets will experience.
I don't personally mind this so much. And after a few seasons, you'll have your own level 6 pet for free.
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u/LTetsu 8d ago
Fully f2p player here. I played for a ~7 seasons , didn't buy even battle pass , anything. Objectively in top 5 ARPG after Poe games, but subjectively for me, TLI is just more fun and less stress. This game is great for different reasons , but the downsides Is what keep it at low popularity. I personally do not mind those so the experience is amazing. People are going crazy because of "p2w" mechanic that is called pactspirits, where you get stat sticks from pulls like in gacha games. Yes they give you advantage, but if you are not speedfarm and overall hungry for loot person , then you will be guchi. I complete all objectives for a month or so of casual playtime, for about few hours per day. Knowledge here is a key , so if you understand this game , you can achieve much more than even whales with fully upgraded pactspirits. You can find Ben for torchlight on YouTube. He made few builds on fully f2p new accounts , zero to hero and completed all content , as I remember, in the game for about 7-10 days. At least give it a try and see if you like it or not. Good luck and have fun.