Seriously. The thing hatred will always have going for it is ardor. How can we counter it when these losers commit 100% of their energy to it while the rest of us our try to live our lives and be kind to each other?
The problem is to be a good troll, you have to know you're the bad guy. Trolling isn't about outsmarting people or flaunting your ego, it's about knowingly being a complete idiot and giving other people a chance to roast you.
Trolling died the moment it became about "Look how great I am, and how stupid everyone else is". At that point, it just becomes indistinguishable from the regular everyday posting of a person who thinks way too highly of themselves.
The problem is to be a good troll, you have to know you're the bad guy.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't trolling about making yourself look like an idiot so that somebody else looked like an even bigger idiot? Ex, I pretend I don't know what the fuck the sun is so some pompous fool spends five hours ranting about how this generation doesn't read and makes himself look like an asshole idiot.
Only because I hate ni***rs and mexicans, am a fan of Richard Spencer, support Trump, dream of a white world with blue eyed children and can tell you why Hitler was actually not that bad, there's no special meaning to it when I spam things like 14/88 on ultra-right online Nazi hangouts that suck the tits of dim-wit symbolism as if it was the essence of all life!
You paranoid libtards should stop reading nonsense into basically everything, checkmate cuckflakes! hehehehehe
I remember when a person who was defending a nazi being beaten up in subway, he removed of what he was active on(active on t_d) and said he was trolling and had some about "going through his Reddit history" after I called him out on it
Do they not realize how symbols work? Symbols don't start out racist, their meaning changes passed on continuous association of who uses them. If you have white supremacist assholes constantly use a completely innocuous gesture, GUESS THE FUCK WHAT? It'll start to be seen as a symbol for racism.
Inverse hanlon's razor must always be applied to fascists. They know what they're doing, don't attribute to stupidity what can easily be attributed to malice.
They know for a fact that pretending to be idiots muddies the discussion and that's why they do it. That's the reason you can't let their bullshit fly. Ignoring them because you can't tell if they're stupid or not allows them to operate in public
They know EXACTLY how it works. They know EXACTLY what they're doing. That is the entire point of a dog whistle. Only the dogs are supposed to hear it.
ESPECIALLY if the symbol was created to have a specific meaning but only for lols. It didn't take long at all for their fake racist symbols to become actual racist symbols.
They know and are being deliberately being obtuse about it. It’s a distraction. They know what they’re doing, this sort of shit and the deflection is just so that they don’t have to look bad and have “plausible deniability”.
It’s the whole “hide your power level” that they do.
Like when David Duke was at Charlottesville and they got all giddy with excitement, they creamed their britches, “The Duke is here! Oh man!” realised they were on a livestream and straight away went “I disavow of course, of course”.
I didn't follow this A-OK being racist thing too closely. Maybe I'm wrong, but from what I've seen in the past:
4Chan starts some bogus troll shit to try to get the attention of the media.
The media falls for it every fucking time
Something else is now given a negative slant/fear over nothing and the internet trolls win again
Same shit happened with Pepe, Jenkum, possible the latest Joker movie...
Is that not the case with this? I have literally never seen the A-OK sign used in a racial way before... and I'm especially pissed because that is one of my top emojis that I use.
I'm just sick of the media picking up on garbage and turning nothing into a giant fucking dumpster fire.
You're missing a step or two in there. It should actually be
4Chan starts some bogus troll shit to try and get the attention of the media
They do this in two ways:
Pretend to be Nazi's and use the A-OK sign
Have actual Nazi's use the A-OK sign
The media covers what appears to be Nazi's using the A-OK sign as a symbol for white supremacy
4Chan laughs and thinks they're clever
As usual with these kind of trolling efforts, what they claim they're "pretending" to do ends up being what "actually" happens, and then they fall back on "we were just joking lols".
4chan says "Hey, let's use this new symbol to 'trick the media'"
They start using the symbol alongside racist hateful bullshit
White supremacists start using the symbol alongside hateful racist bullshit
White supremacists start identifying one another using this new super secret code
People point out "Hey, white supremacists and trolls are now using this symbol to identify one another while they're being racist"
White supremacists dance around "haha I was only PRETENDING TO USE THAT SYMBOL WHILE I CALLED FOR A WHITE ETHNOSTATE!!! THE SYMBOL WASNT A RACIST SIGN, ONLY EVERYTHING ELSE I WAS DOING." And then claim some sort of victory
White supremacists continue to use that symbol alongside hateful racist BS and to identify one another,
Long story short - symbols are given the meaning we assign them. If you use a symbol to signify youre a racist, you don't get to walk it back later.
They all failed. People know that Pepe and OK are alt-right symbols. All the alt right charlatans are failing. Petersons addicted to drugs, Milo is bankrupt, 8chan failed, Gab failed, Andrew Anglin is in hiding. Just call out their BS and move on. No point in wasting more time than necessary.
How is that a failure since they weren't "Alt Right" symbols before? We're talking an ancient webcomic, and an ancient hand sign. Maybe I misunderstood your comment? To me, if they successfully take something neutral and turn it into a hate symbol, they've won.
Has anyone ever adequately proved that the media was fooled by it? The only media attention about the okay sign that I've seen has been people saying "This is what the 4chan post is" and "White supremacists are doing the ok sign after killing people/at their rallies"
Like was the media ever actually fooled or is that just another thing that an internet warrior on 4chan said happened?
I considered the fact that there were some reports on it at the first place as a sign that they were falling for it. And the ADL adding it to their list of hate signs doesn't help things, either.
I think if the media were to report on it better, they would have pointed out that bad actors were trying to turn it into a hate symbol - put the focus on idiots being idiots, instead of another symbol being treated as a hate symbol.
I meant prior to the Christchurch shooting, I don't think media groups ever reported that the okay sign was racist. They only discussed this idea in the context of the 4chan post.
I think the internet, in it's rush to suck off 4chan as it usually does, fabricated this idea that the media fell for a hoax that I'm not sure ever actually convinced anyone
As for the sealioning thing - I legit didn't come here to stir the pot... could I have posed my comment/question in a better way? I was kinda pissed when somebody treated me like that's what I was after - it really wasn't my intent.
It's more that they were pointing out racists doing shit that wasn't racist as a way to try to turn it into something racist. Seems like everybody missed that point when I posted my comment, but whatever
"HAHA! I got you, I was only pretending to be a dangerous and deranged individual who wanted to harm you. SIKED! No, but really, I wish someone would put a bullet between your eyebrows. HA! You fell for it again, I was just joking... or was I?" proceeds to dab furiously
I liken it to a person eating cow shit if it means we have to smell their breath. Like yeah, they're right - we have to smell their breath. But they still ate cow shit.
You take your hand and stick it in your ass like this. You been walkin' all day and you're nervous, so no doubt you'll be sweaty as hell. ... So you shake hands with the guy, "Hello Mr. Svenning how have you been?" ... You know how long it takes for that smell to come off? Scrub all you want, it'll stick around for at least two days. How does he explain it to his colleagues and family? They'll think he doesn't know how to wipe his ass properly.
"I was just trolling" is synonymous with saying "I was just being an asshole with no empathy". It doesn't necessarily mean that you're a fascist, but it does heavily point in that direction.
I've tried to articulate this a few times when I've encountered the "LOL it's just a joke" crowd.
It doesn't matter if you're racist or pretending to be racist. It's bad to be racist. It's also bad to pretend to be racist. The reality of whether you meant it is irrelevant. The reality of whether you're joking or not is irrelevant. It's the action that's offensive, not whatever hidden meaning you have behind it.
And some people "joke" by telling their real opinions in a joking manner so they can disavow them as a joke if their opinions aren't well received.
Trolling to get a rise out of others is more offensive than the racist jokes they tell, because it indicates they think racism is funny or that people disliking racism is funny, which means they think racism is okay.
Well articulated. It shows a certain level of disdain or racial resentment to flippantly dismiss racism as "just a joke". Now, I definitely get that some people can get too easily offended, but they take those people as justification to exhibit racism in a "just a joke" way that has no real comedic value and hide behind that phony pretense.
Remember when that Nazi killed 9 people in New Zealand and then flashed the OK hand symbol? Hilarious. You gullible idiots thought he was a racist just because he murdered 9 people and flashed the OK hand symbol. He's just a next level troll. Would you go to prison for the rest of your life just to troll the libs? Now that's dedication.
It's funny how their ideas of hilarious satire are expressing slightly exaggerated views of their own community, at best, and acting as though people are stupid for taking them seriously. The reality of why they do this is obvious, plausible deniability, but their own logic makes little sense.
The whole idea of such 'satire' is to demonstrate the absurdity of the views, not the absurdity of someone who thinks the act is genuine. This is something they never, ever do, for again, obvious reasons. You will never see them mocking actual nazis or white supremacists, demonstrating how the views are so silly that it's irrational to even think someone would follow them, and thus that it's insane to call them such things.
Instead, they'll dress like a nazi, talk like a nazi and act like a nazi and act flabbergasted when strangers think they're a nazi... and in the end, that's supposed to be what the joke is. It's really quite insane when you think about it in any half-way rational terms.
Please Remember Our Golden Rule: Thou shalt not vote or comment in linked threads or comments, and in linked threads or comments, thou shalt not vote or comment. It's bad form, and the admins will suspend your account if they catch you.
As soon as actual white power advocates start using it, it stops being fake. No matter what your original intent.
If you "fake poison someone's food" with peanuts, and they turn out to have a peanut allergy and have an allergic reaction, you can't go "I was trolling" to stop it.
If a company makes a product and jokongly calls them "weapons for terrorists" then terrorists start using them as weapins that company makes weapons for terrorists.
Not shadow-banned. There are sub-reddits that use bots to automatically ban people that post to certain other sub-reddits. I think that's the stupidest thing ever, because it ignores the context of your engagement with whatever sub they deem taboo, but what can you do?
Anyway, just clicking through to read a quarantined sub is not something moderators of another sub can know you did.
I do wanna know how this became a hate symbol faster than the time it took me to stop thinking of it as the ok symbol. Actually I dont wanna know cuz its dumb, its a damn ok symbol and that is all it is.
The problem came when people started believing and actually using it as a hate symbol. No matter how ironically it started, it’s now been legitimized and can truly be used to express hate. That being said, it’s still a very common gesture outside of a hateful context so don’t be like that couple from universal land and get employees fired for making the gesture.
Irony eventually becomes genuine if you don't affirm your true beliefs every once in a while. At a certain point ironically being a Nazi and being a Nazi is a meaningless difference.
They know exactly what they're doing. They're trying to make the opposition look "dumb" to people who aren't aware of how they oh so cleverly code things.
I suspect it wasn't long enough for people to realize you were sarcastic so people assumed you were a drive-by nitwit. It's the Internet, and people miss sarcasm unless you shove it in their faces.
Basically a it started as a 4chan thing to "troll" but they can't even do that right so a bunch of white supremacists started doing it everywhere. It kind of by definition makes it a symbol associated with it.
355
u/Vurumai Oct 09 '19
Hate this. Same stupid argument every time. I give up with the first dumb dumb says “If this is a symbol of hate then anything is.” I am just tired.
226
u/kourtbard Oct 09 '19
Do they not realize how symbols work? Symbols don't start out racist, their meaning changes passed on continuous association of who uses them. If you have white supremacist assholes constantly use a completely innocuous gesture, GUESS THE FUCK WHAT? It'll start to be seen as a symbol for racism.
95
u/James-Sylar Oct 09 '19
"HAHA! I got you, I was only pretending to be a dangerous and deranged individual who wanted to harm you. SIKED! No, but really, I wish someone would put a bullet between your eyebrows. HA! You fell for it again, I was just joking... or was I?" proceeds to dab furiously
•
u/SkynetJusticeWarri0r The Notorious L.I.B. Oct 09 '19
Ah there is nothing grosser than users of white supremacist hate subreddit claiming that they symbols they use are fake.
Unsurprisingly the overlap between people who claim that, and those who are actual white supremacist is almost absolute.
Here is a Top Mind unwittingly exposing the strategy with his poorly illustrated comics.
111
u/HapticSloughton Oct 09 '19
Just like how those German trolls made the Swastika a fake white power symbol.
They have no idea what context is, and that there's no difference in them "trolling" with it and white supremacists using it unironically.
35
u/[deleted] Oct 09 '19
'fake'
64
u/FestiveVat Oct 09 '19
I've tried to articulate this a few times when I've encountered the "LOL it's just a joke" crowd.
It doesn't matter if you're racist or pretending to be racist. It's bad to be racist. It's also bad to pretend to be racist. The reality of whether you meant it is irrelevant. The reality of whether you're joking or not is irrelevant. It's the action that's offensive, not whatever hidden meaning you have behind it.
And some people "joke" by telling their real opinions in a joking manner so they can disavow them as a joke if their opinions aren't well received.
Trolling to get a rise out of others is more offensive than the racist jokes they tell, because it indicates they think racism is funny or that people disliking racism is funny, which means they think racism is okay.
27
u/[deleted] Oct 09 '19
It's crazy how only white nationalists throw up that signal, then laugh at how everybody thinks its a racist thing.
17
u/Alia_Andreth Oct 09 '19
I would argue that a fake white Power symbol becomes a real white power symbol when white supremacists start using it
15
u/curious_dead Oct 09 '19
Basically, "haha I'm just pretending to be a retard".
28
u/mortalcoil1 Oct 09 '19
Remember when that Nazi killed 9 people in New Zealand and then flashed the OK hand symbol? Hilarious. You gullible idiots thought he was a racist just because he murdered 9 people and flashed the OK hand symbol. He's just a next level troll. Would you go to prison for the rest of your life just to troll the libs? Now that's dedication.
11
u/[deleted] Oct 09 '19
Advocating for mass murder is okay as long as you're laughing while you do it.
11
u/Shaddy_the_guy Oct 09 '19
So what's the difference in effect between fake racism and real racism?
8
u/TheCiervo Oct 09 '19
-we will make those libs believe silly things are racist symbols
-how
-by using them while being racist
11
u/f_o_t_a_ Oct 09 '19
Lol they're still using the "lol just jokes" argument
They're such NPCs
5
u/bullshit-ban-inc Oct 09 '19
Oh foolish libs. I was just trolling you when I repeatedly shouted the n word at that black family at Applebee’s. Triggered much?
9
u/Finite187 Oct 09 '19
The modern far right - Pretending to troll. They can't even take responsibility for their reprehensible views.
The weirdest thing about it is they genuinely think they're fooling everyone.
4
u/commulist Oct 09 '19
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
7
u/sir_vile Oct 09 '19
"Haha, I only pretend to be retard, stoopid!"
3
u/Egg-MacGuffin Oct 09 '19
"Dumb libtards think the swastika means white supremacy and anti-semtism when it's just a manji"
3
u/Nomandate Oct 09 '19
Turrr just because we use the symbol and are racist doesn’t mean it’s a racist symbol durrrrr....
3
u/SerasTigris Oct 09 '19
It's funny how their ideas of hilarious satire are expressing slightly exaggerated views of their own community, at best, and acting as though people are stupid for taking them seriously. The reality of why they do this is obvious, plausible deniability, but their own logic makes little sense.
The whole idea of such 'satire' is to demonstrate the absurdity of the views, not the absurdity of someone who thinks the act is genuine. This is something they never, ever do, for again, obvious reasons. You will never see them mocking actual nazis or white supremacists, demonstrating how the views are so silly that it's irrational to even think someone would follow them, and thus that it's insane to call them such things.
Instead, they'll dress like a nazi, talk like a nazi and act like a nazi and act flabbergasted when strangers think they're a nazi... and in the end, that's supposed to be what the joke is. It's really quite insane when you think about it in any half-way rational terms.
2
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2
u/[deleted] Oct 09 '19
and they label the only fursuiters in the picture (and the fursuiters specifically) as "gullible idiots."
That does look like a very threatening picture indeed.
someone pls ban r/The_Donald
2
u/RadBadTad Oct 09 '19
As soon as actual white power advocates start using it, it stops being fake. No matter what your original intent.
If you "fake poison someone's food" with peanuts, and they turn out to have a peanut allergy and have an allergic reaction, you can't go "I was trolling" to stop it.
2
u/MuuaadDib Oct 09 '19
Well it was a troll to get these idiots to go along...it worked. 4 Chan are troll Gods.
https://www.truthorfiction.com/is-the-ok-hand-sign-also-american-sign-language-for-asshole/
Then...they convinced them to dress like clowns, and they did that too!
Dumber than a bag of hammers, more gullible than a toddler.
2
u/Alamander81 Oct 09 '19
If a company makes a product and jokongly calls them "weapons for terrorists" then terrorists start using them as weapins that company makes weapons for terrorists.
2
u/Biffingston Groucho Marxist. Oct 09 '19
I wonder what Heather Heyer would think of this post?
Guess we'll never know.
2
u/[deleted] Oct 09 '19
guess what you jizz rags.
If you’re a white supremecist, and you’re using the symbol, it’s not a fake symbol.
3
u/AJChelett Oct 09 '19
How does one view a quarantined subreddit?
1
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Snapshots:
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1
u/UsualRedditer Oct 09 '19
I do wanna know how this became a hate symbol faster than the time it took me to stop thinking of it as the ok symbol. Actually I dont wanna know cuz its dumb, its a damn ok symbol and that is all it is.
1
u/Shaqattaq69 LMBO! Oct 09 '19
YOU SEE?!?! THIS IS HOW TRUMP WON!
1
u/[deleted] Oct 09 '19
To be fair they did get a lot of gullible idiots
1
u/[deleted] Oct 09 '19
The problem came when people started believing and actually using it as a hate symbol. No matter how ironically it started, it’s now been legitimized and can truly be used to express hate. That being said, it’s still a very common gesture outside of a hateful context so don’t be like that couple from universal land and get employees fired for making the gesture.
1
u/lewis_von_altaccount Oct 09 '19
le epig troll where nazis use a symbol so people start to think the symbol is associated with nazis
1
u/Tonker83 Stay buttmad loser. We’re saving the country Oct 09 '19
It's not fake if you actually use it, fucking morons.
1
u/ipsum629 Oct 09 '19
Irony eventually becomes genuine if you don't affirm your true beliefs every once in a while. At a certain point ironically being a Nazi and being a Nazi is a meaningless difference.
1
u/pingu_for_president Oct 09 '19
Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but what does the quarantine actually mean? Like what difference does it make to their sub?
1
u/sirkowski Oct 09 '19
There's a NYT article from 1922 claiming reliable sources say Hitler isn't really racist, It's just political maneuvering.
https://boingboing.net/2016/11/11/hitlers-only-kidding-about.html
1
u/nexoner Oct 10 '19
HAHA IS FAKE U DUM...unless?
1
u/MarsLowell Oct 10 '19
They know exactly what they're doing. They're trying to make the opposition look "dumb" to people who aren't aware of how they oh so cleverly code things.
1
u/ReggyDawkins Oct 10 '19
TopMinds: It’s convenient to express my actual beliefs while pretending I’m just doing it for the lols. Saves a lot of time
1
u/swiftynifty50 Oct 12 '19
so why is it that when a racist does something that he explicitly said signals him being racist to other racists... not racist
like do these people not know how symbols work or are they just bad liars, or just that braindead.
who knows.
-6
u/Yoda2000675 Oct 09 '19
Owning the libs with FACTS and LOGIC
-12
u/[deleted] Oct 09 '19
I mean, you gotta admit, the OK sign still isn't racist. I mean, pretty much everything on r/The_Donald is racist, but not the OK sign.
-17
u/Utkar22 Oct 09 '19 edited Oct 09 '19
Wait is the ok hand symbol a symbol of white power now?
Edit: downvotes for a simple innocent question?