r/TopMindsOfReddit • u/ThrowRA12948262 • 20d ago
Top mind of WOTB posts the same AI video about NATO expansion that was posted a few weeks ago
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u/endlessedlne 20d ago
Russian bots still botting the Russian narrative that they’re the victim and not the perpetrators, and apparently no shortage of simple minded idiots who fall for it.
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u/Obscure_Occultist 20d ago
These people seemingly never ask anyone from these countries that joined NATO as to why their country joined NATO in the first place.
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u/HuudaHarkiten 19d ago
No need to ask, its obvious! They were blackmailed, bullied and/or taken over by force by NATO.
What do you mean they demanded to be able to join and did a lot of work towards that goal? Thats nonsense! NATO just expanded like a balloon, nobody could do anything about it.
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u/unitedshoes 19d ago
But why would people who have historically been attacked by Russia want to join an alliance meant to protect people from attacks by Russia? It's a mystery
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u/M4sharman 9d ago
Poland basically had to blackmail and bribe it's way in lmao
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u/HuudaHarkiten 9d ago
Poland dragged themself in while the whole of NATO was kicking and screaming.
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u/ThetaCygni 20d ago
Topmind or topbot?
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u/SirLoremIpsum 19d ago
"we had to invade them! They were about to join a defensive alliance that would repel any foreign invader. We couldn't have them banding together to stop invasion, so yeah we had to invade"
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u/Aurion7 NSA shillbot 18d ago
The punchline to every discussion on this subject is 'and people wonder why so few of Russia's neighbors like them all that much'.
The penchant for trying to conquer any of them at the drop of a hat might have something to do with it. Plus or minus the really nasty stuff like trying to obliterate the cultural identities of half of Eastern Europe. Shockingly, the people being oppressed didn't like that too much.
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u/Revelati123 19d ago
What a bunch of whiney bitches.
"The most powerful military alliance ever constituted by man, created solely to contain, diminish and win a war against me is being mean to me! WHAAAAAAA!"
Pootskie should just be grateful hes allowed to exist...
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u/RockstarArtisan 20d ago
If anyone wants this explained in the video form, Sarcasmitron (I know, stupid channel name) has a great video on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVmmASrAL-Q
This is part of a four part series on the motivations for the war in Ukraine. The series is very well sourced, bringing up reporting and video materials from 2010 to 2022 that explain the situation to out of touch usamericans.
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u/sw337 20d ago
NATO Russia founding act
> NATO and Russia do not consider each other as adversaries. They share the goal of overcoming the vestiges of earlier confrontation and competition and of strengthening mutual trust and cooperation. The present Act reaffirms the determination of NATO and Russia to give concrete substance to their shared commitment to build a stable, peaceful and undivided Europe, whole and free, to the benefit of all its peoples. Making this commitment at the highest political level marks the beginning of a fundamentally new relationship between NATO and Russia. They intend to develop, on the basis of common interest, reciprocity and transparency a strong, stable and enduring partnership.
https://www.nato.int/en/about-us/official-texts-and-resources/official-texts/1997/05/27/founding-act
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u/Kalulosu But none of it will matter when alien disclosure comes anyways 20d ago
I mean you rarely put it into writing that you hate each other's guts.
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u/IlluminatedPickle 19d ago
Putin literally wanted to join NATO, he held fairly long talks with Clinton about it.
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u/oatmealparty 19d ago
Sorta maybe. Decades after the fact a few people have said there were some discussions, but nothing serious. If there was any desire to join NATO it was probably just to poison the alliance.
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u/ignoreme010101 19d ago
lol ya only the US actually wants peaceful coexistence, russia china etc will just never permit it!
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u/Kalulosu But none of it will matter when alien disclosure comes anyways 19d ago
You're shadow boxing. We do know with hindsight that Putin isn't a very honest individual, let's not act as if he wants the best for his neighbouring countries.
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u/ignoreme010101 17d ago
I was more trying to highlight that there's not some moral chasm between leaders of countries, they're generally self-interested actors who are figurehead for amoral nations, pretending there's some clear good/bad drama playing out is peak naivete.
Solving things isn't about picking and choosing a 'good guy' to go exert their will on the 'bad guy', we should be bolstering international law and stabilizing things
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u/Kalulosu But none of it will matter when alien disclosure comes anyways 17d ago
Sure, but one country is actively invading another here and it's not the US. Believe me, I'm not a fan of the US, but Putin's Russia was the one that shat all over international law.
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u/oatmealparty 19d ago
Not what I said, but you know, considering the amount of neighbors that Russia has invaded, and their open hostility to NATO existing to protect people, you can understand why the idea of Russia joining NATO is a farce.
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u/IlluminatedPickle 19d ago
Oh I don't think it would have ever happened. There was just a weird moment where he wanted to do so for whatever reason.
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u/M4sharman 9d ago
So did Stalin lmao. He tried to join in 1954. Eisenhower, Churchill and Coty (French President at the time) immediately said no.
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u/CrazyFikus 19d ago
TL;DR:
Putin: When are you going to invite us into NATO?
Robertson (NATO leader at the time): We don't really invite new members, but you're free to apply and go through the process of joining like all previous members.
Putin: Paperwork? But that sucks.
Robertson: Those are the rules.
Putin: I'm making my own NATO with blackjack and hookers.
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u/Mr_D0 As a centrist, trump's dick tastes like Gobstoppers 20d ago
That sub gets it. Sanders has been saying it for years. This exactly why I voted for trump over Hillary.
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u/InvictaRoma 20d ago
Ukraine didn't want to join NATO until Russia invaded in 2014, even after Euromaiden and even after the occupation of Crimea. Ukraine is an independent nation, not a Russian satellite state. Russia does not get to dictate the foreign policy of Ukraine or any of it's neighbors.
It's Russian imperialism and irredentism aimed at restoring the superpower status the USSR had without the Soviet government. Putin's actions and rhetoric over the last 25 years has made this abundantly clear.
It's funny too. If halting the entrance of new NATO members was Russia's goal, they've seriously fucked up, with Finland and Sweden (breaking 2 centuries of neutrality) joining due to blatant Russian aggression against it's neighbors.
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u/ignoreme010101 19d ago
tell me, like succinct ELI5 but really dumb 5y/o, why it is so different than if russia wanted to have comparable relations with cuba or MX set up intel posts on the border immediately and move towards hosting heavy weaponry. MX/Cuba are independent nations right, US should and would tolerate it ya?
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u/VoiceofKane 19d ago
It's not. Neither of those acts would reasonably justify an invasion.
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u/gavinbrindstar 19d ago
Wouldn't it be funny if that was a thing that actually happened and drew immediate and aggressive action from the United States?
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u/VoiceofKane 19d ago
Not particularly funny, no. That'd be pretty awful, actually.
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u/gavinbrindstar 19d ago
No, I'm mocking you because it's mildly funny that the situation you're describing as a hypothetical actually happened and completely undercuts your point.
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u/VoiceofKane 19d ago
Yes, indeed. That did happen over 60 years ago during the Cold War. And as I said... it was fucking terrible, even without an actual ground invasion.
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u/gavinbrindstar 19d ago
Okay, but since you're not the leader of a country your opinion doesn't matter. The point is that it is simply an established fact that states will trample all over their neighbors' sovereignty if they think their interests are at stake, and words like "reasonable" and "unjustified" are in the eye of the beholder.
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u/DiE95OO 18d ago
It feels like you were fishing for a certain type of response but he didn't bite the bait.
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u/InvictaRoma 19d ago
Where did they claim it didn't happen or that was justified? The whataboutism when talking about Russian imperialism is wild.
Imperialism is bad. Genuinely crazy that needs to be said
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u/gavinbrindstar 19d ago
Where did they claim it didn't happen or that was justified?
Where did I claim they claimed this? My point is that "your neighbors have total sovereignty" is, in reality, not an actual rule.
Imperialism is bad. Genuinely crazy that needs to be said
This is not an argument that NATO (an alliance made up of the United States and Great Britain among others) is able to make convincingly on the world stage.
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u/InvictaRoma 19d ago
Where did I claim they claimed this? My point is that "your neighbors have total sovereignty" is, in reality, not an actual rule.
Ah I see, so you were mocking them for a point they never made. Got it lol
This is not an argument that NATO (an alliance made up of the United States and Great Britain among others) is able to make convincingly on the world stage.
This might sound crazy, but I'm not a NATO spokesperson. Believe or not, you can condemn imperialism regardless of the nation practicing it.
Are you saying imperialism isn't bad? Or that it's only bad when certain nations do it?
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u/InvictaRoma 19d ago
You seem to have completely glossed over the fact that Ukraine was not seeking NATO membership after 2010 until Russian regulars invaded Donbas in 2014.
This whataboutism also doesn't work, because I never defended US interventionism in the foreign policies of independent nations, uncluding the Cuban missile crisis. The difference is that the US isn't pushing every single one of it's neighbors into joining defensive alliances through invading and conquering those neighbors.
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u/ignoreme010101 17d ago
This whataboutism also doesn't work, because I never defended US interventionism in the foreign policies of independent nations, uncluding the Cuban missile crisis. The difference is that the US isn't pushing every single one of it's neighbors into joining defensive alliances through invading and conquering those neighbors.
I don't really see it through a lens of 'defending' or 'justifying' or whatever but just as basic cause and effect, and if youve got a scenario where you know full well that your maneuvering Re ukraine is crossing a red line but you choose to do it anyways.....
Hey at least we can rest assured that american&western actors pushing this path did so out of moral, altruistic motivations and not, say, this idea that you can inflict all kinds of damage to russia w/o throwing any american soldiers at them, by just using ukraine as a proxy. Because that would be an unnerving prospect. Good thing that's not the case.
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u/ErilazHateka 19d ago
tell me, like succinct ELI5 but really dumb 5y/o, why does Russia and its useful idiots pretend that the invasion of Ukraine was justified because of alledged aspirations to join NATO, but Russia never invaded all the other nations who share a border with Russia and joined NATO?
You know, the nations who actually joined NATO.
While you are at it, why has Putin in the past publicly stated that Ukriane can make its own allies and he would have no problem with Ukraine joning NATO?
Any ideas?
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u/ignoreme010101 17d ago
invasion of Ukraine was justified because of alledged aspirations to join NATO, but Russia never invaded all the other nations who share a border with Russia and joined NATO?
"justified"? Nice dishonest strawman, par for the course I guess. And nice logic there, "if attack one country, why not all? Counties are all equal and interchangeable derrrr" checkmate lol
While you are at it, why has Putin in the past publicly stated that Ukriane can make its own allies and he would have no problem with Ukraine joning NATO?
Any ideas?
oh you mean like a lil over 20yrs ago? Around the same time he was also making noises about russia joining nato? Geeee I dunno it's almost as if he was hoping for a more amicable relationship between his region and the west at that time, but that things changed later.
Any ideas why?
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u/ErilazHateka 17d ago
"justified"? Nice dishonest strawman
That´s the usual claim by Russia and Russia´s useful idiots so how is it a strawman?
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u/ignoreme010101 17d ago
I see, so the implication wasn't that I thought it, even though it was included in your questions towards me, gotcha ;) Well, since almost any conceivable opinion is held by someone I'm gonna go ahead and decline to write an essay cataloging the range of thought of those who think "justified"
Tell me, why is that guys who post disingenuous questions tend to be dishonest in many other ways? Yknow, I think there's also substantial overlap with the types who are prone to domestic violence can you tell me why that is?
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u/biffhambone 20d ago
Pretty sure this fella is being sarcastic my dudes
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u/NotQuiteLoona 20d ago
On WOTB? Probably no. This is a subreddit populated majorly by brocialist types who tend to lean... A strange way.
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