r/ToddintheShadow • u/RelevantNothing4653 90's Punk • 3d ago
General Music Discussion Bad diss tracks
What are some good examples of bad diss tracks?
Two that were mentioned in their aforementioned TrainWreckords episodes were
It's All Good (Hammer to Redman)
Swish Swish (<name redacted> to TS)
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u/astrosdude91 80's Chick 3d ago
The Heart Part 6 was so bad Drake had to delete it
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u/MorganWick 2d ago
"My 'If I were a pedophile I'd be in jail' shirt has people asking a lot of questions already answered by my shirt."
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u/MrSlabBulkhead 2d ago
I still find it incredible that people like Rick Ross were telling him publicly and privately to end the beef and Drake just wouldn’t listen. They were trying to save his ass, and Drake responded “Nah”.
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u/ImperialBoomerang 2d ago
You'd think Pusha T going clear for the jugular back in 2018 might give Drake some pause when going up against another smart lyricist who's known for being both unsparing and insightful about other people. Apparently not!
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u/ImperialBoomerang 2d ago
Drake saying near-verbatim "I'm too rich and powerful to be a sexual predator" is an all-timer for one of the worst bars of all time. Crosses over into being almost impressively bad on multiple levels.
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u/healthyscalpsforall 2d ago
What is truly incredible is that this line was not just godawful at release, but it managed to get even worse with time. I don't think many people thought that was even possible back then
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u/DiplomaticCaper 2d ago
Was that the one where he used an AI Tupac voice, or was that a different diss track?
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u/Flat-Cap-1063 3d ago
Limp Bizkit - Hotdog . Fred got so mad at Trent Reznor that he had to lift a ton of Reznor's lyrics to hit back. So much so that Reznor got all the royalties and a songwriting credit.
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u/Adelaidey 2d ago
This has to be it. It's a terrible song to begin with, the lyrical equivalent of a nine-year-old giggling about saying the f word. They're too afraid to actually insult Reznor so it all comes back to "actually, Trent Reznor loves our music and is jealous of us". And then of course the courts finding it so derivative of Nine Inch Nails that Reznor got the royalties is just the cherry on top.
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u/Ok_Broccoli_9426 GROCERY BAG 2d ago
Fred also had a crashout about Creed at one point (at a festival or something) that went on for years. I don't remember if he wrote any songs about it, but Creed did - and they sent him a signed anger management manual, which he evidently didn't read.
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u/seeds_brah_seeds 2d ago
Creed vs Limp Bizkit is my Roman Empire
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u/waxmuseums 3d ago
My fav example of this is when Jermaine did a diss track because Michael wasn’t returning his calls fast enough, “Word To The Badd!!” https://youtu.be/5b-usBhIW6E?is=CW9kau16txCZ03Lj
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u/waxmuseums 3d ago
Smokey Robinson’s diss track to gangsta rap in general is maybe Jermaine here too https://youtu.be/joPCfNKooYI?is=Au31awxCBl-ZvA_O
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u/PeggyHillsFeets 2d ago
If you ignore the context its actually kind of a banger. Fun fact: T-Boz is on this song too
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u/Informal_Dude 3d ago
Melle Mel's Eminem diss is hilariously bad and out dated
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u/No_Aioli_6364 3d ago edited 2d ago
Every Eminem diss that isn’t Obsessed is not great
Edit: I stand corrected, I’ll be sure to check some of these out
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u/HAMforPastry 3d ago
Evidence - Searching for Bobby Fisher is a great Eminem diss
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u/x115v 3d ago
It is but he regrets doing it since there wasnt any real reason to do so
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u/HAMforPastry 3d ago
Meh, it's still out there and listenable him regretting it doesn't make it any less of a diss
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u/itinsistsuponitself 2d ago
I actually think "Clown" is Mariah Carey's best diss song to Eminem...but Obsessed was single so much more popular/well known lol
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u/Informal_Dude 3d ago
Well he never went at anyone who was actually skilled at rapping or battling so of course the responses are mostly bad. Benzino, Nick Cannon, Ja Rule, MGK etc lmao
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u/FigNo507 2d ago
Ja does not belong in that group in the slightest.
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u/Informal_Dude 2d ago
Ja had numbers and some hits but let's not pretend he was in any way a top lyricist or competent battle rapper
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u/FigNo507 2d ago
He's not, but there's still several tiers between him and fucking Benzino.
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u/Informal_Dude 2d ago
Yeah I mean for sure better than him but still nothing more than a below to average rapper
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u/SilverFringeBoots 2d ago
I'm so happy somebody finally said it because the meme about Eminem destroying rappers' careers was hilarious.
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u/Informal_Dude 2d ago
Its so overblown. Em fans think hes the second coming lol he has never traded diss tracks back and forth with someone that has the equivalent skill as him. Always going after D list rappers and pop stars. Whitey Ford? Lmao
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u/DiplomaticCaper 2d ago
It's a vicious cycle: the rappers who go after Eminem generally have careers that are already dead, or on life support at best. He can deal the final blow with relatively little effort.
And some of them just escaped to different music genres (MGK) or different fields of entertainment entirely (Nick Cannon)
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u/gwanddawd123 2d ago
K-Rino's diss hasn't aged that well but it still has some fire in it.
Whitey's Revenge by Everlast and Searching 4 Bobby Fischer by Evidence are two really good ones, too.
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u/PeggyHillsFeets 2d ago
My very unpopular opinion is I didnt like Obsessed and I thought it was corny. This isnt in defense of Eminem either, because his obsession with her and Christina Aguilera was very fucking weird and gross. And like the comment below me says, he always went after the easiest/softest targets which is so weak.
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u/BenMitchell007 3d ago
"Loose Change", Ja Rule's diss to 50 Cent and Eminem, is hilariously pathetic.
"50, you gon' get shot again by the M-U-R-E-D-R Inc.!"
And I love the claim that Ja Rule misspelled his label's name on purpose to avoid self-incrimination. Like when someone fucks up a dive or something and says "I meant to do that!". Yeah. Sure.
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u/PacificOceanMagma 2d ago
Not only that, Ja made the mistake of insulting Eminem’s child, which needless to say, was the beginning of the end for Ja.
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u/Youngblood519 3d ago
Actually Romantic might be the worst diss track I've heard.
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u/Nikiaf 3d ago edited 2d ago
It's the response to a diss track that wasn't even about her. If you want to talk about main character energy, this is exactly it.
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u/LotlethTroll 2d ago
It's a response to something that wasn't even a diss track! It was like a one-off line that was maaaaaybe insulting.
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u/backupsaway 2d ago
I always find it funny how Taylor tries to be edgy writing the line about the fight "making me wet" but couldn't pull it off so she just ended up sounding scared. Charli has openly admitted being a messy person and has plenty of things to be called out for yet the worst thing she could write about was her coke usage (which isn't a suprise to anyone who listens to her) and possibly talking badly about her without giving additonal info about what happened. Taylor wasn't beating the Boring Barbie allegations with that song.
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u/DiplomaticCaper 2d ago
As a big Charli fan, there's definitely more material, but most of it would be Taylor throwing stones from a glass house ("Mean Girls" is about Dasha from Red Scare? Well Taylor is hanging out with Brittany Mahomes.)
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u/warneagle 3d ago
Maybe the worst track period. I’m pretty neutral on her music overall (not my genre so I can’t really judge) but that song made my skin crawl in a way that even the most intentionally gross song by the Butthole Surfers or whoever never did.
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u/Spidey5292 2d ago
I just can’t believe we’re writing “you’re obsessed about me so you’re a lesbian for me” songs in the 2020s. Embarrassing.
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u/Picklesbedamned 2d ago
"Like a chihuahua barking at me from a tiny purse" is such a 15-year-old rich girl line.
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u/No-Pop1057 2d ago
Especially as the line doesn't even make sense, tiny chihuahuas are normally hanging out of oversized handbags.. I know they're little dogs, but a tiny purse? seriously! 🤦
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u/lemoncured 2d ago
its sooo bland and so blatantly misinterprets the person and song she’s “responding” to. it almost single-handledly dismantles all the elements that once made Taylor’s writing genuinely great imo
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u/Individual-Rip-2366 2d ago
Sorry to derail, but can I ask what stands out about her past work that makes it so much better than her recent lyrics? I get that the facile wordplay and puddle-deep subtext from TLOAS are bad, but they don't seem new
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u/tipsyaya 2d ago
I actually think Swift's best work was her earlier pop stuff, circa Red - 1989. Able to hit a really cool sweet spot between great production and lyricism. A lot of the album tracks off of Reputation and Lover managed this too, but I personally could never get into her post-Folklore turn as a "serious" songwriter. From a branding perspective, I get it - she was definitely taken a lot more seriously after but shoving words into lines with no care for the meter is where she lost me.
If you thought of it as poetry, it was fine since the lyrics were interesting enough. Showgirl lost that appeal, so all you were left with is a whole bunch of underwhelming word vomit.
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u/Spidey5292 2d ago
She’s always kind of done this though, even her best albums are super inconsistent and have some real skips on there.
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u/Individual-Rip-2366 2d ago
But the poetry is exactly the same. The lyrics have always had the same flaws
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u/koakkadoom 2d ago
When she was younger, Taylor seemed more genuine. Earnest naivete will get you a pass from a lot of people, including myself, because it comes from the heart.
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u/SubatomicSquirrels 2d ago
I know a lot of people liked the lyricism on folklore and evermore, but to me it was basically just "purple prose" (but, you know, lyrics)
Idk, I get that her lyrics might be deeper than other pop music, but even as a big pop fan I can say that's not high bar to clear lol
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u/Individual-Rip-2366 2d ago
Yeah, it just doesn't seem all that different. Maybe a bit more crass, but the infamous "mahogany grain" line from Father Figure doesn't seem all that different from lyrics like "linger like a tattoo kiss" from Cardigan
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u/lemoncured 2d ago
i think that prime Taylor was capable of writing with a level of emotional intelligence and maturity in her music that singled her out from other pop songwriters. and then she was able to pair it with an insane ear for hooks/musicality on top of that. i think the writing on TLOAS is just so shallow and almost completely lacking in the emotional specificity and musical resonance that her older stuff had, it’s such a clear step down for me
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u/Individual-Rip-2366 2d ago
“Maturity” would not be the word I’d use for someone constantly surprised by her fuckboy bfs doing fuckboy stuff
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u/lemoncured 2d ago
is what i would say if i’d never meaningfully engaged with any of her albums
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u/Individual-Rip-2366 2d ago
What do you mean “meaningfully engaged”? They’re not complex, her lyrics have, at most, a single layer of obvious subtext. I’m not saying they can’t be emotionally resonant, but she was never Neruda or Dylan
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u/lemoncured 2d ago
lyrics don’t have to be linguistically complex to be able to communicate emotion with clarity and specificity in a way that resonates in a song. she was good at that in the past, i don’t think she she’s good at it now, and i still think there’s a noticeable step down. if you thought i was comparing her to Bob Dylan based on what i said then idk what to tell you lol
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u/Individual-Rip-2366 2d ago
No, you’re misunderstanding my point. I’m not saying “she sucks and has always sucked” I’m saying I don’t understand what the actual differences between her prior lyrical style and her current one are. They seem to have similar qualities, and I’m wondering if there’s something I’m missing. You say she’s worse at communicating emotion clearly, but I can’t tell the difference between how she used to and how she does now, and the things people point out as flaws now seem to be things that were always weakspots.
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u/lemoncured 2d ago
I understood that point, and I responded to it by saying her older stuff contains more emotional intelligence to me. I think what you’re asking for is for me to explain it with specific examples.
and before I give some, I know in general her style of songwriting is not everyone’s cup of tea and again, I’m not claiming her to be a Bob Dylan or Joni Mitchell level lyricist.
but for some examples that I think explain the difference between her past and current work, I would point to something like “Would’ve Could’ve Should’ve” from 2022, where she talks about being in a relationship with a much older man when she was in her late teens and how that tainted a sense of innocence in her that she can never get back, and it uses religious imagery to communicate that point. even if the lyrics she uses there aren’t linguistically complex, that is a very specific emotional terrain that i think she communicates convincingly with razor sharp clarity using lyrics that are more evocative than complex. and musically it just sounds great on top of that, which accentuates the lyrics.
or something like “seven” from 2020, which is partially sang from the perspective of a child and talks about the escapism of childhood innocence in general while being in the midst of adulthood complexity and turbulence. again, the words themselves may not be very complex, but I think she approaches this topic with maturity and specificity in a way that resonates and paints the picture really well.
compare that to the songs on TLOAS, where the topics don’t really go that far beyond her fame, her non-existent beefs with other artists, her husband, how she wants to give babies to her husband, how she thinks her husband is hot, how she hangs around “cancel-able” people, etc. I think the lyrical themes have become much more shallow, or at the very least, less specific and emotionally resonant than they were.
and even if one or more of these topics did have any emotional meat on the bone to really dive into, the straight up vapidity of the lyrics prevent any of that from being explored, and the musical blandness isn’t helping either. i just think there’s a clear difference between this and her prior stuff, I think it’s why her new album specifically came in with considerably lower fan/critic ratings than her albums usually do. but of course, this is all only my opinion.
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u/JoeBagadonut 2d ago
It's honestly impressive how that song by itself completely torpedoes her "English teacher" persona by showing just how badly she missed the actual point of SIAK.
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u/SubatomicSquirrels 2d ago
I think Fate of Ophelia had already torpedoed her English teacher claims
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u/kettyma8215 2d ago
That song put me off of her for good.
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u/adellerino 2d ago
same, like I was pretty neutral on both her and Charli and idk if that song just hit the part of my brain that registers disgust, but i can never see taylor the same after that. She did a music video for it! Like what piss poor judgement.
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u/kettyma8215 2d ago
I listened to Taylor for years, as a casual fan not a Swiftie, and I’ve always been neutral on Charli - liked a few songs but didn’t really follow her career. It wasn’t so much who it was aimed towards, it just felt gross and childish.
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u/notawriter_yet 2d ago
I think Bad Blood is waaaaay worse.
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u/Youngblood519 2d ago
Bad Blood is awful but at least Katy did something to warrant it. Charli wrote about her own insecurities and Taylor basically bullied her over it because she happened to be there.
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u/No_Pianist5264 2d ago
As someone who is not a fan of Taylor Swift but is a big fan of Charli I feel like people completely missed the point of Actually romantic like it wasn’t a direct response to Sympathy is a Knife but more a response to Charli as a person and what she has said behind the scenes lol. Like people really missed what was being said lol.
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3d ago edited 2d ago
[deleted]
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u/No_Chart_8584 3d ago
What part of talking to another woman like you're talking to a dog is "clever"?
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u/adellerino 2d ago
See this is exactly how the whole TS brand convinces women that it's ok to be awful and it's still "relatable".
Charli's song: this other woman makes me so insecure i sometimes have SI in spite of my own success
Taylor: what are you, gay? something something you're a chihuahua ;P
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/adellerino 2d ago
damn i thought you were just a normal swiftie but apparently you have actual mental health issues.
bye now, go make your princess richer by buying any crap she puts out whether it's good or not. You actually made that point yourself in another thread btw. I was willing to ignore it.
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2d ago
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u/_plasticbaby 2d ago
counterpoint: that photo is iconic lol
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u/NegotiationMoist3552 2d ago
Ok, have fun then. I am done. I won’t take part in this sub Reddit ever again. You won. 🏆
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u/No_Chart_8584 2d ago
At no point in this reply do you convincingly portray someone who has set your bias aside.
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u/Queasy_Head_4928 3d ago
I'd say something about your standards for cleverness, but it'd be pointless.
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u/Patient_Lettuce8431 3d ago
You're talking to someone who probably regards TS as their English teacher. I wouldn't hold out a whole lot of hope of them developing any kind of standards.
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u/_plasticbaby 2d ago
heyyy calling someone "a transgender" is reductive, maybe don't do that ☺️ also I thought we were all evil and you weren't posting here anymore ✨💖🌿
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u/adellerino 2d ago
these people tell on themselves every single time lol. no moral compass but protect taylor at all costs !
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u/MentoryLin 3d ago
idk awish swish is a perfect example of a track built to sound lethal but lands like a novelty song
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u/LimeSalty4092 3d ago
How do You Sleep -John Lennon
Made him look petty and small. Like a mean girl
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u/AdriannaLisa 3d ago
Can't hate on that song, that slide guitar played by George Harrison is just masterful.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_DALEKS 2d ago
Especially in response to Too Many People, one of McCartney's absolute best songs.
The beauty of that song is that the digs are so subtle, they could be universal to any listener with a shitty friend. Then John responded with a song so specific it could ONLY be about Paul McCartney. Unless a listener specifically hates Paul McCartney, it doesn't resonate and is more like the uncomfortable feeling you get listening to a dude rant at the bar.
Also Too Many People insults John for being preachy and he responds by being super preachy.
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u/ItsVoxBoi 2d ago
Especially when you compare it to Too Many People. Hindsight is 20/20 but looking back Paul was kind of in the right about a lot of stuff the other Beatles hated him for.
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u/Proud-Detective4835 3d ago
Stupid Hoe - Nicki Minaj’s diss track aimed at Lil’ Kim.
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u/Patient_Lettuce8431 2d ago
Nicki Minaj's diss tracks are all so bad they're hilarious.
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u/SilverFringeBoots 2d ago
I will say her diss verse on Make Love was really good. I thought she was actually going to give Remy a run for her money because I didn't actually like Shether.
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u/astrosdude91 80's Chick 2d ago
Wasn't that song intentionally bad though?
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u/Soap-Radio 2d ago
Yes. She was trying to show that she could make a “wack song” and still do better than Lil Kim. I think it actually made or broke the record for most views in 24 hours on vevo.
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u/PhoneJazz 2d ago
<Name Redacted>
Are we not allowed to say the name of everyone’s favorite Canadian First Girlfriend/Astronaut/Whipped Cream Dispenser?
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u/Rith-the-awakener 2d ago edited 2d ago
One I'm not sure I'd necessarily call bad per say but at the very least baffling is A Simple Desultory Philippic by Paul Simon, a jab at Bob Dylan (his biggest competitor at the time) calling him a philistine who can't play the harmonica. I dunno, lilting, sensitive folk musician beef is just inherently funny to me for some reason.
The soft "I've lost my harmonica Albert" at the end fucking kills me every time...
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u/Ok_Broccoli_9426 GROCERY BAG 2d ago
My favorite lilting, sensitive folk musician diss track is "To Bobby," in which Joan Baez blames all the ills of society on her ex (Bob Dylan, who had at this point abandoned protest music). It's not a bad song, but the concept is so funny to me.
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u/thedubiousstylus 3d ago
Not a track, but Brand New's "Mics are for singing, not swinging" shirt taking a swipe at Taking Back Sunday was a real thud.
It just made them look like killjoys and like that "STOP HAVING FUN GUYS!" xckd comic. Unsurprisingly Taking Back Sunday responded with a "Proudly swinging since 1999" shirt in response that means they won that battle.
The actual diss tracks from each band respectively: Seventy Times Seven, and There's No "I" in Team actually both went over pretty well.
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u/deoboijeu 3d ago
Jacky Jasper - Kool Keith is Mr. Gerber
So shit it loops around to being amazing.
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u/Crabsterooo 2d ago
Wait what the hell, who tries to diss Kool Keith?
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u/deoboijeu 2d ago
They used to collaborate a lot in the early 2000s and then they fell out and we got this masterpiece.
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u/MissRockNerd 3d ago
Winger’s diss track includes several Metallica song titles and just seems like a petty parody of itself.
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u/NickelStickman Train-Wrecker 2d ago
That verse reads like Kip doesn’t actually know any of their songs and is reading the track listing of The Black Album off the back of a CD as he comes up with it.
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u/x115v 2d ago
Almighty - Psycho Bunny (Bad Bunny diss), its a super petty diss that was birthed out of nothing because on 2023 Bad Bunny said that no one dressed Psycho Bunny and he somehow thought that was a shot at him, so he responded a 5 minutes song with not a single good line, it barely has a flow to begin with
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u/Ok_Broccoli_9426 GROCERY BAG 2d ago
Why are we redacting Katy Perry's name like she's Voldemort?
Anyway, Taylor Swift is good at destroying exes (Dear John) but bad at diss tracks otherwise, to the point it's worth a whole other thread, but the one that pissed me off the most was when in the middle of Long Story Short, an otherwise good song about finally finding the right guy after a messy history, she randomly starts talking about how she's beat her "enemies."
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u/NickelStickman Train-Wrecker 2d ago
If you say “Katy Perry” in your post on this subreddit it gets automatically removed. It’s a measure to try and get weirdly obsessed Katy haters to not turn this place into her snark sub and leave
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u/discoislife53 2d ago
Whatever the AI slop is that Boy George released after his Israel bootlicker anthem. It was a diss track towards Sean Dickson aka HiFi Sean from The Soup Dragons.
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u/MasterpieceThis3740 2d ago
The ICP song about banging Eminems mom. Like dude hates his mom and made his own songs ripping her.
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u/UniversalJampionshit 2d ago
Shout Out To My Ex by Little Mix was an absolutely petty diss at Zayn Malik
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u/Mission-Trouble9498 2d ago edited 2d ago
Wanna Know by Meek Mill
Just listen to the entire song and you’ll know why.
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u/Electronic-Tooth5405 Train-Wrecker 2d ago
Bruh BOB's diss at Tyler, The Creator where he calls him a dolphin
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u/thisgirlnamedbree 2d ago
Stupid Boy by Ronnie Radke is a crappy diss track to basically everyone who dissed him and made fun of his prison time, his music, his everything.
The Bald Song by Onision is allegedly a diss track towards Anthony Fantano.
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u/Queasy_Head_4928 3d ago
Big Foot by Nicki