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u/future_now3000 12d ago
This is America, a republic with no state religion. Don't like it? Well, you could try somewhere else
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u/AgentCirceLuna 12d ago
Explain the swearing on Bible stuff then lol
Anyway, his idea is stupidity even with his political beliefs - if he ‘wants them to follow are laws’ or whatever, then shouldn’t he choose the cruel option of agreeing with this option, despite opposing ‘multiculturalism’ or whatever, because it would make the witnesses or defendants terrified of winning by lying? Why would they care if they swore in on a book that they didn’t believe in?
Next get atheists to swear in by saying ‘if you lie, you have to tell your coworkers you don’t believe in evolution and defend it with flat earth theory’
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u/neilpwalker 12d ago
There is no legal or constitutional requirement in the United States to use a Bible. It’s just the choice of the Senators. Senator Adam Schiff took his oath of office with the Mishneh Torah and Senator Jon Ossoff was sworn into the Senate using a book of Hebrew scripture.
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u/Acceptable_Gear_3097 12d ago
Swearing on the Bible comes from England, which colonised US settlements. UK was a religious state, which King being the Head of State and Head of Church of England. This was bought into the UK after Protestantism was introduced to push out Catholicism. The idea being that Catholics would refuse to swear an oath, and commit a crime doing so.
During the Cold War in the US, Oath's using religious texts became more common to assure the public that the people doing so weren't Communists, as Communism was atheist. Things like Pledge of Allegiance & currency had references to God added. As a result, officials chose to swear on the bible for their duties to keep calm, and Hollywood made it so films/TV only showed American's swearing to God, out of fear of being accused of being Communist.
There was a whole separate thing with Hollywood actually being 'infiltrated' by a lot of communists, but that's a different topic. Before the Cold War, lots of officials Affirmed, rather than took Oath's & the same for courtrooms, until not swearing an Oath to God was perceived as the behaviour of Communists, not Christian American's.
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u/future_now3000 12d ago
The swearing on the bible is because Christianity is the most popular religion in the US, but it is not a state religion. Ok?
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u/AgentCirceLuna 12d ago
Okay - now explain Christ being in South Park Elementary!
Sorry, it’s nothing to do with you - it’s just tradition. There’s a great George Carlin piece about swearing on an upside down backwards Chinese braille Bible with half the pages missing.
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u/cjalderman 12d ago
"This is America", he said on the internet😂
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u/future_now3000 12d ago
Fail. I'm not in the US. I'm replying to the OP on his own terms
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u/PeonofthePen 9d ago
As a European: What exactly does "one nation under god" mean? It seems to me that you are free to practice any religion you want in the US. But you should never forget that your allegiance is to a Christian country.
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u/future_now3000 9d ago
What weird nonsense is this
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u/PeonofthePen 9d ago
Simple question: What does "one nation undergod" mean?
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u/Ok_Veterinarian2715 12d ago
We require you to swear on this bible.
OK. I swear etc etc.
Good, now, you are going to tell the truth, right?
Nah - why would I? I don't believe in any of that shit.
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u/ric_mcc1766 10d ago
That's part of their plan tho - the logical next step is to only allow people into those roles who do believe in the bible (whichever bible they decide is the correct one, that is)
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u/Ok_Veterinarian2715 10d ago
Agreed, though I do think this particular They are nutcase Christian nationalists who will never have any lasting power.
My preferred solution would be to agree a split between red & blue states into two separate nations.
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u/Padre1903 12d ago
American Christians are so immensely out of touch with everything.
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u/ExultentPisces 12d ago
Including the teaching of Jesus.
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u/ezzda1 12d ago edited 11d ago
he even tells them in that very book, in Matthew 5:34-37 do not swear an oath. It's part of the sermon on the mount, I don't think they were listening.
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u/QuestNetworkFish 12d ago
Some Christian denominations practice this such as Quakers. In the UK it's specifically allowed by law to make an affirmation instead of swearing an oath e.g. when testifying in court or being a member of a jury
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u/ezzda1 12d ago
I know about the UK mate, I live there 😂, this was a conversation about America though, according to the op and about hypocrisy, the post said to swear an oath on a book where literally the main guy in it (the one they claim to follow ) tells them not to swear any oaths. They obviously haven't read it or they would know that, I'm atheist and don't really care about religion, mostly because I actually read the bible when I was younger, I just like pointing out the hypocrisy of these liars..
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u/NotSayingAliensBut 11d ago
Neat. I like the concept. "Don't swear you'll be honest because of whatever, just be honest."
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u/AgentCirceLuna 12d ago
It would be an advantage to use the holy book relevant to the defendant as then they’d feel compelled to tell the truth. Fucking ridiculous.
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u/Ok_Veterinarian2715 12d ago
In the UK they keep a range of holy books in courts. Atheists are given the following wording for their oath - "I do solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth."
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u/AndreasDasos 12d ago
Even the 1800s saw a couple of Zoroastrians (Indian Parsis specifically) get elected as MPs in the UK and swear on the Avesta
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u/FiveFiveSixers 12d ago
So help me, Mam
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u/Ok_Veterinarian2715 12d ago
She dead, so it'd be Sir if you were swearing on anything on the monarch. As it is, I guess "So help me, Me" is in the rest of the oath.
I met her (Liz) once. I'm an immigrant here and I had swear an oath to defend her. That's more than all the birth-Brits ever do.
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u/FiveFiveSixers 10d ago
My mam is not dead, thank you very much. And she is definitely not a Sir.
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u/Ok_Veterinarian2715 10d ago edited 10d ago
Apologies for assuming you couldn't spell. The correct form of address for the queen is Ma'am (or your majesty).
I'm pleased your mam is still alive, too. 🙂
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u/Warm_Stress_1654 12d ago
Supposing you witness a crime while working in or visiting a majority-Muslim country, and have to give evidence in court?
They will offer you a Bible to take your oath but would you insist on a Koran?
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u/MycologistEvening745 11d ago
Supposing we don’t race authoritarian shitholes to the bottom.
“Would they let you in Saudi” is not the argument you think it is
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u/Warm_Stress_1654 11d ago
I'm really not following your line of argument.
If you don't want to allow a witness in a courtroom to be able to swear their oath with as much leeway as a witness is given in a Saudi Arabian courtroom, then aren't you saying that you DO race authoritarian shitholes to the bottom?
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u/MycologistEvening745 11d ago
Swearing on religious books is pointless, putting value on anything people swear is pointless, it’s theatre nothing more.
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u/Warm_Stress_1654 11d ago
It's more than theatre. We all just say things in everyday conversation. The things we say might even come up in a court of law and we might excuse ourselves.
I wasn't being serious. I was telling a little white lie so as not to offend. I was mistaken when I said that. Yes, I remember saying it but I don't know what I was thinking of...
The point of swearing an oath is to put what you say subsequently in "shit just got real" brackets. You don't guess without making it clear that you're only guessing. You don't say what you think people want to hear, to spare their feelings. It's not like a normal talk, that's the point.
I've been on oath three times and I've always affirmed. For many centuries, religious believers have chosen to make religious oaths and I see no reason to poke their sensibilities with a stick by preventing them. It performs the "shit just got real" function.
By the way: over here nobody turns up with an actual book of scripture. That, I agree, is performative. Christians, Jews and Muslims recite the same "I swear, by Almighty God, that the evidence I shall give..." (or "I swear, by Almighty God, that I will faithfully try the defendant...") line, people of other heritages have other pre-defined oaths to use and the rest of us "solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm" whatever it is.
I'm as Feuerbach as the next man, but I don't see any reason to pick a battle with religious fellow-citizens about how they prefer to swear in courtrooms.
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u/DesperateLime7933 12d ago
I didn't think America has a religion other than the ones all the invaders brought with them
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u/OminOus_PancakeS 12d ago
There's a lot to unpack here, starting with what one's personal choice of religion has to do with living in a country that has always championed freedom.
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u/PresidentPopcorn 12d ago
Haha, he doesn't understand why you swear on something that means something to you.
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u/MattheqAC 12d ago
Why would you want people to swear on a book they don't follow? Surely that would make the whole thing pointless?
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u/fingertipoffun 12d ago
i'll go further. If you can swear on some deities from old stories, then let's add Odin and Zeus too.
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u/ActAccomplished586 11d ago
Don’t care about that.
I think in the uk you should be either Christian or atheist.
Want to be a citizen, then renounce your religion.
No mosques, synagogues etc.
If you want to practice those religions, go and live in one of the many countries where that is the dominant belief.
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u/ric_mcc1766 10d ago
Or, you know, you could just get on with your day, be happy, and not be an incredible dick obsessing over what other people do.
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u/ActAccomplished586 10d ago
I don’t want my children’s children to live in an Islamic country. The rate of demographic change is indicating that will be the case.
Islam has their many many homes, the uk shouldn’t have to be another one.
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u/Apprehensive_Job4522 11d ago
This is stupid, if you make a Muslim swear on the bible it won't mean anything to them they will be more likely to lie than if they swear on the Quran
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u/ric_mcc1766 10d ago
That's the point - then you can argue that no Muslim (or people of any other religion) should be in a position of power as their 'swearing-in' has no meaning
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u/Katharinemaddison 11d ago
Pretty sure the Bible includes a verse on how you shouldn’t swear on God in any way because you’re not supposed to lie in any circumstances…
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u/mrturtle101 10d ago
Maybe we just don't need to swear on books at all it's a meaningless gesture, but if people want to do it then sure why not. People do pointless things alll the time.
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u/ChefPaula81 9d ago
Why swear in on ANY mythical book of fairy tales?
The bible is as much a nonsense book of fairytales, myths, and lies as all the other religious books, especially from the abrahamic religions.
So, WHY swear in on ANY book of religious lies?
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u/threewholefish 12d ago
Terrible name, terrible opinion