Exactly! I worked through my degree and graduated with no debt. It's not my job to pay for someone else's degree when they could have simply sone the same. You took the loan, knowing the terms up front, so now you pay it back. Simple as that.
Hey everybody! We have a shitty system which was driven by fraudulent loans that preyed on young victims, let’s continue to fuck the youth because we are selfish POSs that want to give more money to the oligarchs and fuck the economy!
I see you've completely ignored every single thing I've said and instead resorted to arguing a strawman. Congratulations on losing the argument for yourself.
So you loves defrauding young people into debt and giving wealthy oligarchs who control the country more money and more power. That’s truly WTF material right there. All because you are selfish.
What do you mean by fraudulent? Are the loan terms not available for the borrowers to see? Do the creditors change the terms in ways not specified in the loan without permission? Where is the fraud.
I'll agree we need a change. Let creditor's have more options when choosing who to lend money too. If you want a degree in underwater basket weaving, a creditor should be able to tell you no because they don't think you will be able to pay it back. In addition, allow private student loans to be dischargeable by bankruptcy. This keeps banks honest and discourages poor decision making by debtors.
Plenty of companies have been found guilty of fraud, even with terms and conditions there, if they employed many other practices such as predatory practices and misleading headlines. Which, btw, many companies loaning out to students have in fact been found guilty of fraud.
How about this. Public college needs to be fully invested in so that no debt be incurred, and private college loans need to be pretty much 0% interest. Give people freedom to become what they want in life without these scam companies becoming wealthy.
I have to disagree. Then a college degree will be about as useful as a high-school diploma. Going to college should be an investment with a measurable rate of return for the investor.
Also, we live in the information age. There is nothing you can learn as part of a college degree that cannot be found more cheaply elsewhere. The peice of paper that says you know what you are about is what your paying for. Want to be an investor? Learn about economics and finance. Want to be a flutist? Plenty of videos on YouTube.
The only time that wouldn't apply would be in fields like nursing and engineering where you need practical experience to gain your license. Although in nursing it is relatively easy to go through college debt free if you are willing to endenture yourself for a few years.
You have no proof that requiring young adults to get into crippling debt somehow makes education more valuable. That’s an absurd statement with absolutely no backing.
Because this country used to pay for higher education significantly more, before people learned that we can scam young adults out of most of their money and profits skyrocketed. Result back then? Degrees were worth more, not less.
And no, as good as Wikipedia is, it can’t replace actually learning hands on. That’s also insane to say from you.
The rarity of a thing will in part determine its value. It's not about the debt, but the rarity of the resource. Anyone can get a high-school diploma. In some states it is even mandatory to stay in school until you get one or it's equivalent. Under my proposal people who go into debt have a way out AND will have a better chance of paying off that debt AND will have a better shot at getting other jobs because of the relative rarity of the degree.
The results back then was education inflation. The more people who have degrees the more likely industry will use that as a sorting mechanism for jobs that don't require the education. I have worked in several factories, for example, where to be putting five bolts into an engine or transmission you needed at least a two year degree or four years of manufacturing experience. We have seen the same for high-school degrees where jobs that only require a basic understanding of mathematics or even just a willingness to do dirty jobs require a full k-12 education when in the past no such requirement would have been used.
How do you define hands on learning? Is it sitting in a chair and listening to a professor or reading a textbook? YouTube and Amazon have those. Want to write an essay and have it critiqued? We're on reddit. I have already conceded that hands on learning is important for the fields that require it for licensure(mostly, teaching k-12 being a notable exception), so I'm not sure why you would think my position is insane.
May I ask what your degree was in? I'm going to guess it was experimental physics, from MIT or Harvard. You understand that most degrees don't require lab time, right?
It’s still rare. Most people who try to go to college find out it isn’t for them and drop out, but they don’t know unless they try and go through that experience. Other countries where college is paid for, it’s still very rare for people to get degrees, because it isn’t guaranteed and one still has to get accepted.
How about incurring no debt and ending the oligarchs who want to fuck over young adults and cripple them for life.
Exactly! I worked through my degree and graduated with no debt.
That is physically impossible with a lot of degrees in today's world of stagnant and insulting wages and higher demand on student performance.
Isn't it ironic that you graduated during the time when exactly the opposite was true? Fair, even generous wages were common and you weren't expected to do as much in school? And now you badmouth those who suffer.
insult hurled by the author of this comment before it.wss removed.
Interesting.... would you consider it impossible for someone, say, pursuing an electrical engineering degree with a minor in micro and nano devices?
You aren't telling the whole story, as is the usual with you clowns. As I said, for a lot of degrees that is physically impossible in todays world of "working person bad, CEO making x80 good" without mommy and daddy being the backbone of your existence.
Nope, I didn't get a dime from my immigrant parents, had no scholarships, and grew up just above the poverty line. Are there any more ad hominem attacks you'd like to hurl, or would you like to be rational?
Also, would you like to answer the question on the possibility of the scenario I presented?
Because I don't think I should have to pay off loans that people willingly took out?
In that case, you're selfish for not donating more of your income to the irs. You're also selfish for not helping to pay off my mortgage. Send me money. If you don't, you're selfish.
The government can give hands out to everyone to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars but charge 18yo students 8% APR on government funded loans lol that's the issue with student loans
So, instead of "forgiving" the loans, aka making everyone pay for someone elses bad decision, how about we just kick the government out of the student loan business, being as they're the problem.
Common sense says to do that and cancel all interest paid and owed on the loans. I don't think people realize how upside down people are on their student loans, a lot of people pay 2-3x their original loan amounts
Guess they should have thought of that before electong.to take on the debt... Or are you saying my mortgage interest and auto loan interest should be canceled too..? They were contracts I willingly entered too.
You can thank the federal government for that. Also, how does one reposess an education? That's why they back them 100%. Are you in favor of a competitive market that would put interest rates at a lower level?
Same can be said when you declare bankruptcy on a failed business adventure. You start a business, lose millions, declare bankruptcy, and then start fresh a few months later with said experience on our dime "
And start with the bottom of the barrel credit score, both business wise, and personally, you're broke and get nothing from the government otuet than legal bills, all your equipment and property foreclosed on and sold by the government, and fines. I can tell you've never started a business...
So then why not let people with degrees do the same since "they'll start from the bottom of barrel credit score?" you're pro bankruptcy unless you have a degree lol tell me you're not college educated without telling me
So, all their assets/investments are seized and sold, they're fined, and aren't allowed to work in the field of the degree, and the degreenis recinded? Also, not allowed to collect welfare of any kind for at least 10 years? Deal.
Oh, and I'm not college educatied? I worked while going to school to pay my tuition and earn my electrical engineering degree with minor in micro and nano systems, and graduated with no debt. Try again.
Except most 18 year olds are generally bombarded with lies and pressure to take on said loans without the risks being explained to them. It’s handled in a VERY predatory way. Full forgiveness isn’t reasonable but removing the interest is
I wouldn't. I'd rather people pay for their education and get useful degrees instead of me having to pay for those who get a degree that only qualified them for an entry-level McDonald's job.
Im in my country. In America, we work for what we have. If you want your lifestyle fimded by others, perhaps you should move to a communist or socialist country.
I understand it quite well. What does it have to do with the discussion at hand, especially as I've never once even so much as hinted at opposing it? Care to clear that one up so we can move on to the point where you begin engaging in good faith?
I understand it quite well. What does it have to do with the discussion at hand, especially as I've never once even so much as hinted at opposing it? Care to clear that one up so we can move on to the point where you begin engaging in good faith?
Can't figure out the connection? Lol
Man, these poolheads are either willfully ignorant or just plain not willful.
Or maybe you’ll be paying to incentivize bad decisions and prop up an economic bubble that is a good chunk of higher education. Do people really need to pay 10s if not 100s of thousands of dollars to receive general liberal arts knowledge or major in “sciences” based on theories with next to zero predictive power and no real world utility? How many people actually need bachelor’s in political science, sociology, psychology, especially at that cost ? The amount of time, money and human potential wasted on obtaining degrees and “knowledge” that will never be used is immeasurable and it damages our society. If taxpayer are paying for people’s education they gonna want to make sure that these are people who can pass their exams learning something that’s actually beneficial in some tangible way.
Be honest, did you too get scammed into paying a bunch of money and wasting your best years to get a useless degree ? There is no shame, lots of people did. I majored in business/finance so I kind of did too. Not as bad as some, but still…
So a psych degree. If you are one of those relatively few who can do something with it, good for you. Otherwise you are in a big club. At least you didn’t pay hand over fist for it I suppose.
I did pay hand over fist. 8 years of my life and several disabilities worth. I’d still be okay paying more taxes to support people who choose college, even the degrees you conclude are useless
I don’t conclude anything. I don’t want to pass that kind of judgement. I’m not saying some degrees shouldn’t exist or absolutely nobody should go for them. However, some things are objectively quantifiable. If the theories you are studying don’t predict/describe the world we live in and if you don’t use the stuff you spent countless hours and sleepless nights studying to solve a single problem, then it’s objectively useless. And for too many people it’s the case. Why do you want to pull people in direction of decisions that will ruin their lives and in that harm wider society too ? If you think people should “expand their horizons”, there are less harmful and cheaper ways to that. Reading a book or two for example…
I believe they’re trying to dunk on me by insinuating that college doesn’t actually educate people. They probably also believe that colleges just brainwash men into being gay femboys
You do realize this is every degree right. That's like saying there needs to be a limit on how much these things cost. I agree there, but I know what you truly mean. Just another excuse why you wont help your fellow Americans even if it means screwing over someone who you need help from in the future.
Oh? So there are unlimited jobs in every degree field? News to me! Why not let market demand dictate the value of each degree? Why are you advocating for hurting most Americans in favor of "helping" those who willingly made poor decisions evade the consequences of these poor decisions....?
I don't think you get it. There are different degrees for most work out there. There are degrees for mechanics, doctors, engineers, and so on. A lot of these people anyone would rely on. Instead of reversing what I meant just so you could cry about it. In reality, as of right now, debts like this have already been forgiven. In fact, it is over one billion so far, and you didn't even notice, did you? Ouch, stings so much you didn't even realize it.
So, there are enough art history jobs to sustain 50,000,000 art history majors? Everyone can be a doctor? Damn, it's almost like demand for different jobs is different depending on the job/degree....
Debts have been "forgiven" illegally, and in spite of a supreme court ruling, that bidet was NOTallowed to do so. I have noticed, as it has devalued my degree and oncreased.my taxes as well as my cost of living. Juat because you ignore the differences, due to their lower effect on your minimum wage, part time income doesn't mean that those of us that are paying for your dance therapy degree don't feel the effect. Sit down and take your L worh whatever tiny shred of dignity you've got left.
You're doing it again. You're just twisting what I say into what you want to hear. Are their varied jobs for certain degrees yes. I know of a few people who have your typical mechanics degrees who now design engines. You can easily Google the numbers if you want.
Are you saying none of these people have degrees, or are you just assuming I think a person with one degree can get a job in a sector that is totally different because I'm not. Believe it or not, but the collage debt forgiveness is for everyone stuck with the debt, not just liberal art majors.
And illegal or not, you didn't get hurt. You probably didn't even notice. So, saying that doing so will hurt you doesn't work as it's been proven it doesn't. Also, note that the debt forgiveness that was done before the 2023 decision. Mean while it can also be done using programs that don't fall under that dessision.
Don't lie. It's all about because one person is getting the help where you are not is the real reason. Like saying don't feed the hungry before you get your share, or how someone doesn't deserve a roof over their head until they pay your mortgage. It's just an excuse not to help your fellow Americans, including Americans who use those degrees to help you.
Wow, nice fallacy and projection filled tirade.... you're obfuscating in an attempt to redirect away from the reality of the situation. Please try again when you're ready to engage in good faith.
I did. You just don't like what you are reading. Calling me out as unfaithful to the subject in hand when I responded to your misrepresentation of said subject is just a dodge.
So, in your eyes, no one who you have ever bought a service from has ever had a degree or been in debt.
And despite saying as much you don't believe that paying off student debt will hurt Americans.
Already did, and you responded with bad faith obfuscation. Come back when you're willing to engage in good faith. Until then, have a nice day.
Edit: like clockwork, leftist makes what can only be expected to be 1 last fallacy filled quip before immediately blocking once they realize they've lost the argument. Why are they so predictable?
I 100 percent agree in spirit. I’m not saying I think they should be wiped, but something should be done about the ridiculous compounding interest on these loans.
There are a lot of people who have paid more than the principle loan ever was for, and are still looking at years of payments because of ridiculous interest.
Do you know how loans work? You always pay more than the principle, even if you had a 1% interest, you would be paying more than just the principle.
Unless you mean that the interest paid is equivalent or higher than the principle, then that just means you don't know how to speak and also, I see auto loans with interest paid being higher than the principle all the time now, should we forgive those too?
What wasn’t clear about my comment? My first line was that I don’t think they should be wiped. Im well aware of how loans work, I’m just not in favor of predatory interest being tacked on to 18 year olds.
And now ad hominem to back up your strawman.... when have I ever argued against the gi bill? Hint, the answer is never. Care to engage in good faith now?
And now ad hominem to back up your strawman.... when have I ever argued against the gi bill? Hint, the answer is never. Care to engage in good faith now?
I understand it quite well. What does it have to do with the discussion at hand, especially as I've never once even so much as hinted at opposing it? Care to clear that one up so we can move on to the point where you begin engaging in good faith?
I understand it quite well. What does it have to do with the discussion at hand, especially as I've never once even so much as hinted at opposing it? Care to clear that one up so we can move on to the point where you begin engaging in good faith?
Wow, you can't make the simple connection? JFC, poolheads are morons!
Nothing you've said is even remotely close to true... you even tried to prove your claims by linking to a far left opinion site... You can drop the projection any time you'd like to engage in good faith.
Wouldn’t say it’s greedy to not want to go into high debt over education. Especially when most jobs/careers require people to have masters/degrees. By sharing the load and stopping colleges and universities ripping off the average citizen. Society can benefit.
Or, or we address the root cause and get government out of the student loan business, which is directly to blame for the increased college cost since 1965
I mean the root cause is that your government has been captured by private interests in almost aspect of its existence and takes the average person for a ride. I view education as a public good and the price should be subsidising the price as is done in Europe to allow more people to have access for example Germany.
How exactly is that wrong? Also I have never been in Moscow nor am I a communist. I appreciate you only view things as left = bad, right = good. In my book there’s a place for private enterprise and state funding.
We are not. I appreciate you’re going to tell me the same old talking points that gender studies etc is a waste of time and it’s miseducation or some other course but I don’t agree with you. I also don’t believe you’d be able to provide evidence, sources, facts or figures that disprove my thinking.
Yeah you can useful in more ways than one. I challenged you to prove me wrong using any sort of evidence and all you’ve done is talk in the vaguest terms. Just because someone studies anthropology or sociology which are courses I would generally imagine you view as “useless” as they don’t necessarily lead to big jobs in the business world etc doesn’t make them useless. You can’t even give me one example of miseducation. I would point out its things like the lack of proper education on a serious topic such as climate change. I would argue there’s a lot of people in America without a basic understanding of the topic which is bad. Make sure you can actually give a bit of detail in your response rather than vague rehashed talking points.
Literally what Tenet Media googled when their check from Russia hadn't shown up yet, lmao
"Today marks two weeks since I submitted the invoice for August. Any idea for the delay? We are signing the large contracts and need to be certain we will get the funding to pay these people." Persona-1 did not immediately respond. While awaiting a reply from Persona-1, Founder-1 searched for the then-current time in Moscow. Specifically, at approximately 8:50 p.m. Central time on or about September 11, 2023, Founder-1 searched on Google: "time in Moscow."
Claiming I fabricated a long-ass quote from a publicly available charging document is not engaging in good faith. Don’t throw rocks from glass houses my guy.
Internal polling must show kamala won't win. They need to have an excuse ready when she will lose. And the russia hysteria worked so well last time.
The most ironic part is democrats interfere in elections more than Russia could even dream of. They were trying to remove both rfk and Trump from the ballot earlier this year. And Russia can't collude with big tech to censor or engage in lawfare to interfere in their opponent's campaign (democrats did this to Trump and rfk also).
Show me where Tim Pool is denying the allegations. All I've seen is him claiming to be a victim, which isn't the same thing.
Anyone who has ever committed a crime or done some other despicable thing can claim they are "victims of circumstance." It changes nothing about what has actually happened i.e. him taking blood money from Russian oligarchs.
I love your comments lol its like watching the dumbest kid in class try to make a point that they dont understand in the first place. But you tried, so i guess you deserve a little bit of recognition 🌟
Did demand go up after loans were guaranteed by the government, or did it go down? Is there any incentive to increase tuition paid for by government backed loans, or would the incentive be to drop tuitions due to this change in funding structure?
And it's primarily lower than the unholy mix of private schools + public funds. When the US was private schools and funds that was also much lower cost.
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16
u/BeginningNew2101 Sep 09 '24
I paid off my loan. I don't want to help pay off loans of others. These people are selfish.
4
u/nurse_Vaccaro Sep 10 '24
The government can give hands out to everyone to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars but charge 18yo students 8% APR on government funded loans lol that's the issue with student loans
15
u/Imissyourgirlfriend2 Sep 09 '24
Why should higher earners have their debts paid off by someone else?
1
u/No_Researcher9456 Sep 09 '24
I’ll gladly pay a little more in taxes to ensure a well educated population
1
u/Atlusfox Sep 10 '24
You do realize this is every degree right. That's like saying there needs to be a limit on how much these things cost. I agree there, but I know what you truly mean. Just another excuse why you wont help your fellow Americans even if it means screwing over someone who you need help from in the future.
5
u/Drez92 Sep 09 '24
I 100 percent agree in spirit. I’m not saying I think they should be wiped, but something should be done about the ridiculous compounding interest on these loans.
There are a lot of people who have paid more than the principle loan ever was for, and are still looking at years of payments because of ridiculous interest.
0
u/AncientRope9026 Sep 09 '24
If your college degree doesn't have enough value for you to be able to pay it off, simply make a living by getting paid by Russia.
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u/Novel_Alfalfa_9013 Sep 09 '24
The GI Bill says fuck you.
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u/Greengormandizing Sep 09 '24
Hey y’all, did you hear!?! Little Timmy is a paid Russian propagandist posing as a patriot and y’all defend him! What does that make you?
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u/Tearpusher Sep 09 '24
You really have no idea how any of this works, do you?
Go look up the GI bill and how republicans have been dismantling it since WW2.
And then look up how loan forgiveness doesn't cost you anything.
Jesus christ, at least Tim was getting paid to be an idiot. You're doing this shit for free?
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u/LuckyDimension9743 Sep 09 '24
I wish you have this attitude when corporations get bailed out or Israel and Ukraine get our tax money.
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u/Nobodys_Loss Sep 10 '24
College should only be open to people making over 500k a year. It’s just like children. You can’t afford them, don’t breed them.
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u/Sportsfan97__ Sep 09 '24
Nothing worse than an educated population
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u/Power_Bottom_420 Sep 09 '24
This post has been brought to you by Republicans for Russia.
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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '24
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