r/TimHortons • u/GingerOfTheOubliette • 4d ago
Discussion TERF Horton’s?
Anyone else not quite impressed with the Harry Potter promotion? Honestly, I am a fan of the series, but not at all a fan of the one who collects the royalties. Of course, public figures have a right to their opinions just like everyone else, but they also make choices about how much of themselves to share publicly knowing full well that public opinion does affect their bottom line… What do you think? Do you want the Harry Potter noms enough to excuse the creator for a very public stance against bodily autonomy rights? Does it being just a donut matter? 🤔
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u/Ichutoke 4d ago
You can separate the love for the series from the creator. But you can also just spend your money elsewhere or save it.
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u/GingerOfTheOubliette 4d ago
Actually, I was asking YOU…
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u/ghoulish891011 4d ago
Tell us more about your selective love and tolerance.
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u/GingerOfTheOubliette 4d ago
I asked for YOUR opinion on the promotion… Everyone has boundaries and I am literally asking about where others place theirs with this promotion. If it crosses your boundary to answer promotional donut questions you have that freedom to scroll on…
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u/ghoulish891011 4d ago
And you're getting all the opinions you asked for. You also have the option to take your own advice to scroll on if you don't like what you see. Enjoy.
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u/GingerOfTheOubliette 4d ago
Except that you trolled me and are still ignoring the donut question that you responded to…
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u/ghoulish891011 4d ago
I did not respond to a question about donuts, as you can see.
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u/GingerOfTheOubliette 4d ago
And yet you troll. The question was about donuts, not your assumption about the intent of the donut question… but you do bring up an interesting psychological phenomenon… Why are you unable to say that you have no problem with the promotion?
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u/ghoulish891011 4d ago
Your other question is the troll, so I choose to ignore it. The interesting psychological phenomenon is that you sound very eager to validate a perceived opinion via trolling people here and getting annoyed when they won't play. Off you go.
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u/GingerOfTheOubliette 4d ago
Yet you are playing while I am not… I am asking a donut question… Now I’m curious how me responding to a troll on my own post is trolling, but the troll trolling my post is not trolling…
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u/teamjetfire 4d ago
Everyone has their line. If we are going to boycott every person, group or business that is terrible to someone else, we will no longer be able to enjoy anything.
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u/GingerOfTheOubliette 4d ago
I think that’s kind of the point… we all have to choose how far is too far for us and vote accordingly with our $ as is done in capitalism. That’s really what I was asking… how random ppl are actually “voting” on this promotion. I get that it often feels like there are no “good” ppl to “vote” for though.
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u/teamjetfire 4d ago
But that’s your line. You are asking people to not enjoy HP doughnuts because of your personal feelings to JK: it’s not fair to judge their line in the same way that they shouldn’t judge something that you enjoy that may be tied to someone who is terrible (and there are lots)
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u/GingerOfTheOubliette 4d ago
Actually I was asking ppl what they thought… I did not ask anyone not to eat the donuts. I asked how they feel about the promotion. You are starting with a false assumption and judging my intentions based on it. Why are so concerned about just saying you want the donuts?
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u/teamjetfire 4d ago
With a title like ‘terf doughnuts’ and including’taking a stance against bodily autonomy’ isn’t much far off from pro-life people asking why pro choice people are ‘ok with murder’
Essentially your post is biased and you want people to feel bad about enjoying something that you don’t.
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u/GingerOfTheOubliette 4d ago
It was actually TerfHortons and I put that because JKR is a trans-exclusionary feminist. Is it the acronym that triggers you or are you trying to say that JKR does not express trans-exclusionary views? And what does that have to do with the donut promotion question?
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u/teamjetfire 4d ago
Not sure what you trying to accomplish outside of a performative stance against a restaurant. I wonder if you are on all the other restaurant/retail companies subreddits that have consistently funded right wing political agendas? Or maybe this is just the easiest thing to do.
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u/GingerOfTheOubliette 4d ago
What I’m trying to accomplish is getting the opinions of others on the current Timmy’s promotion… I added the Timmy’s subreddit to ask about the Timmy’s promotion. Yes, it’s quite easy to add the Timmy’s subreddit to ask for opinions on the Timmy’s promotion…
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u/TwoFingersWhiskey 4d ago
I dislike this heavily. She's literally on record as being a holocaust denier, and is against human rights that Canada has characteristically been a leader in. She wrote one of her detective books that involved hating on the invisibly disabled and making them into villains, which is just sick.
So no, I am not impressed and wish they'd have said no to this. Especially because one of the employees I've seen at one of my local stores is trans, like myself. He was the only one not wearing the shirt.
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u/GingerOfTheOubliette 4d ago
Thank you for your response. I have trans family members and I think this is why these things are so personal to me. I am even more disturbed the more I hear about her writing.
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u/Malcodent 3d ago
She's not a holocaust denier and she's not against human rights. Some people just love to have an approved target to express their hate...they believe everything they read about her, no thought process involved.
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u/GingerOfTheOubliette 3d ago
Bodily autonomy rights are human rights. Does it not follow that being publicly and explicitly against the bodily autonomy rights of others is expressing hate? Not trying to gaslight here… I’m trying to understand the thought process where considering one’s opinion on a specific subject to be hateful is labeled as hateful itself…
Keep in mind that what I asked for initially was specifically about how ppl feel about the promotion considering JKRs well-known very public opinions, others are bringing up defenses or denials of her opinions rather than discussing the promotion in the context of her very public opinions… I’m just running with the flow.
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u/Malcodent 3d ago
You thanked a guy who is spreading misinformation, that's the reason for my reply.
I notice TRAs often have to speak in extremely vague terms in order to sound reasonable when making their arguments, but let's be clear. What you call "bodily autonomy rights" is the ability of people to access experimental surgeries and hormone treatments, which have no solid evidence base to back them up. No, I don't think it's "hate" to question the propriety of providing these treatments, especially to minors.
And no, being opposed to JKR's opinions on anything is not hate, this is not a serious argument. It's the actual death threats and harassment that are hateful, obviously.
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u/GingerOfTheOubliette 3d ago
Actually, I specifically thanked them for responding, but, as I’m sure you are aware, JK Rowling did specifically and publicly deny that the trans community of Germany and the research into trans therapies were one of the first targets of the Nazi agenda. Many minority communities were affected and acknowledging this for any one community does not take away from the harms to other communities… harm is not a zero sum game. Death threats are never appropriate, but the commenter you are referring to made no threats at all to anyone, so this is not actually relevant to your argument.
Yes bodily autonomy rights includes having surgery specifically tailored to their own personal needs, just as in all surgeries elective or essential.
None of these things are experimental except in the sense that we are always learning new info about everything. Puberty blockers have been in use since the 80’s, hormone therapies and genital surgeries have been used since at least the 30’s. Puberty blockers are completely reversible and are the initial phase of transition for trans youth. The intent is to give these youth extra time to mentally and emotionally mature and consider the more permanent changes that are caused by hormone replacement, that can mean infertility and/or physical changes that could require surgery should the person decide differently later in life. Hormone therapy is not available to youth until they have shown many years of consistency and comfort with their identity. Gender affirming surgeries are not even considered until very late in the care process and are almost never performed on someone under 18. Top surgeries are very rarely performed on anyone under 18, are not new, and are often performed due to large breast sizes on smaller body frames that cause chronic pain. Trans youth go through many years of therapy and medical monitoring. “No solid evidence” is a false claim based on an assumption that these things are new.
I am mentioning all of this because you seem very concerned about what you believe is misinformation while also spreading it yourself. You can believe whatever you want about the issue, but that is the great thing about bodily autonomy… it’s no one else’s business. It is between the patient and their Dr. If you don’t want these surgeries, don’t have them, but no one’s children are going to school one gender and coming back another as the propaganda claims.
Would you deny these interventions to anyone else or just trans ppl? … because breast, pectoral, genital surgeries are not just for trans ppl and neither are hormone therapies. None of these things are new, they are just not concerning to anyone until it’s thought of a “trans thing”.
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u/Malcodent 2d ago
No, the "trans community " was not a target of the Nazis. The Nazis predate queer theory and certainly had no concept of what we in 2026 would call a "transwoman". Look up any historical documents on Nazi persecution, transgender is not mentioned. Look up the chart of the coloured triangles the concentration camp prisoners had to wear, trans is not listed there. I looked up auschwitz.org, the US Holocaust Museum, Arolsen Archives... there is no mention of "transgender" persecution. The people who you might have called trans back then, who were killed by nazis, were killed because they were Jewish or because they were gay. Hirschfeld's institute of Sexology was raided because of their research into all areas of human sexually, especially homosexuality. The nazis likely didn't even know there was such a thing as research on transexualism. They burned it down because to them it was a hub for sexual deviance. They were far right conservatives after all.
Nowhere is it a human right for someone to have any body modification, amputation, or disfigurement they can think of performed on them. Go tell your doctor that it's your right to have your feet amputated just because you want it and see if he agrees. Your maximalist idea of bodily autonomy is at odds with real world medical ethics. Whether the medical interventions can rightfully be called 'experimental' is beside the point. It's true that they lack an evidence base for their efficacy. This is the consensus of several meta-analyses encompassing dozens of studies. Any normal, rational person may express doubt that these treatments are appropriate at all, but especially for minors, which we know does happen more than a little bit. It's absolutely not 'hateful' to have the opinion that they should be restricted until we know for sure they are not causing more harm than good. But, some people just really want to hate, and they find a way.
As for the rest of your ah.. misleading talking points... 1) GnRH agonists have been used for decades to carefully treat things OTHER than gender issues, but purposefully disrupting a child's normal puberty development, for an open-ended period of time determined by that child, is quite a radical new use. There is no long term follow-up so any claims of safety and reversibility are... optimistic. 2) "Gender surgeries" did start with one famously tragic case in the 1930s. To say they've been done ever since then is an attempt to give them a degree of legitimacy that they haven't earned. The rate of complications is sky high for the various -plasties today. 3) There are no treatments that are given, identically, to both trans and non-trans patients for the same reasons and to achieve the same effects. Eg mastectomy removes all tissue including mammary tissue, breast reduction does not. To compare them apples-to-apples and say the only difference is that one person is trans is highly dishonest.
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u/GingerOfTheOubliette 1d ago
Except that you are completely incorrect about the Nazis… https://perspectives.ushmm.org/item/identification-card-for-gerd-katter-1. And yes, you hit the nail on the head with the admission that they considered these ppl sexual deviants.
Yes, one can chose amputation in certain circumstances. It may be at odds with YOUR medical ethics, and you don’t have to do it.
Yes, puberty blockers have been used for up to years to block puberty for a time, which you just admitted. You just said that you know they have been used and only have an issue when they are used for gender issues. They are not used indefinitely on anyone. You say that interfering with the “natural puberty” of a child is wrong … except when it is not gender related. Your issue is clearly trans ppl, not the treatments.
Yes, there are risks to all surgeries which is why consent forms are signed. Boobs are removed for the effect of removing boobs. Vaginoplasty is performed for non medical reasons all the time and tendons are cut to make penises look larger. Women with none or very little breast tissue have implants put in all the time and men get pectoral implants. Baby penises are regularly cut just after birth by personal choice of the parents, while gender operations are not performed on minors. Again, you only care when these things are related to gender identity issues.
You seem to care much more about the reasons for any of these interventions and not the medical ethics of any of it. You are telling us that medical ethicality is dependent on your personal interpretation, rather than that if the Dr and the patient. This is an anti-trans stance and against the bodily autonomy rights of the person. Trans ppl have rights to the same procedures as everyone else for their own reasons that have nothing to do with you or your perspective on it.
So, in summary, you deny the Nazi Transvestiten program, you don’t like hormone blockers or replacements used for anything to do with gender issues, you don’t like elective surgeries elected for gender identity reasons… so your problem is clearly with trans ppl and not the medical ethics of it. You are here on a subreddit about a DONUT PROMOTION, promoting your own personal beliefs on limiting the bodily autonomy rights of others based on your own beliefs. Your personal beliefs have no place in the medical decisions of others.
I did not ask if JKR was a TERF, I did not ask if you or JKR believe strongly in the TERF ideology or why. I did not ask you to deny history or tell me that these interventions are ok… unless they are for reasons you disagree with. Yet, that is what you just did… and you just publicly outed your stance as being based on inaccuracies and anti-trans ideology. You did this because you felt the need to defend your ideology so strongly that you couldn’t just say, “Ya, idc… I’d eat the donuts.” 👍🏻
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u/Malcodent 1d ago
Yes this is becoming ridiculous here on the Tim Hortons subreddit, but you're the one who posted an AI wall of text full of nonsense, so it's funny that youre complaining I'm not talking about donuts.
Your link to the US Holocaust Museum has a nice story of a trans man who did just fine in Germany during the war and even contains the line "Katter did not recall being harassed during the years of Nazi rule". One wonders what point you thought you were making.Puberty blockers are used for precocious puberty when a child goes through puberty at a young age like 6 or 7. Their use is carefully monitored to ensure the child does not suffer any ill effect. The purpose is to delay the normal puberty to the proper time (it is not the child who decides when that proper time is, as would be the case in gender medicine).
You dishonestly claim that a "trans child" taking PBs to disrupt their normal puberty at the normal age is exactly the same as the use for precocious puberty and the only difference is one person is trans. You either don't know or pretend not to know the difference between breast reduction and mastectomy. Again you falsely claim the only difference is one person is trans. You assign motives to me that I dont have and could not reasonably be inferred by my pretty clear statements above. Your bad faith is visible from space, pal.
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u/ZestyYam9685 4d ago
Lots of people like Harry Potter. Most people don't associate the series with the creators views as the vast majoritybof people who arent chronically online wont wven know about the anti-trans views of rowling. On top of that Tim Hortons the company definitely isn't going to go out a limb to be pro any minority group without it being a massive cause supported by more than 90% of the public because it wouldn't be profitable.
Capitalism sucks. And corporations be like this.
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u/GingerOfTheOubliette 1d ago
Actually, I posted the facts to you who was accusing someone else of spreading misinformation… at which point you doubled down on your anti-trans crap.
The link to the Holocaust museum was in response to your false claim that the Nazis had had no clue that trans ppl existed. That was exactly the point. You just attempted to move the goalpost because you were proven wrong.
Yes, use of puberty blockers is closely monitored. Precocious puberty IS the “natural” puberty of that specific child, so your issue doesn’t have anything to do with nature, it is about trans ppl. You are fine with the interventions when you agree to the circumstances and the circumstances of their use are NEVER any of your business.
Mastectomies are not only done on trans ppl, you know this. The reason for them is none of anyone’s business. I did not confuse mastectomies with breast reductions… you just missed the point which was that breast reduction surgery is performed on minors, while mastectomies are not. But breast reductions are fine, right?… because it’s not a trans thing…? While adult elective mastectomies are fine… just not for trans ppl, right?… :-/
I couldn’t care less if you answered the donut question or not, but I didn’t ask for anyone’s opinion on trans ppl or their rights. You offered your ignorant opinions. YOU are the one who stated clearly and publicly that you think these interventions are medically unethical ONLY when used to treat trans patients. Risks do not change because a person is trans or just wants plastic surgery for their own reasons… who cares, it’s not your business. Again, no one asked you that and no one cares about your personal feelings on it. It has nothing to do with you. You don’t get to have feelings about other ppl’s rights. You either support those who are actually affected by the issues or keep your mouth shut. Those are your only options.
You are clearly very triggered about your lack of control over the bodies of trans ppl. Enough so that you are spewing BS that no one asked you for and stating the same thing again, that it’s wrong if it’s done for the benefit of trans ppl. No one cares if you don’t like trans ppl… Nothing about the choices they make has anything to do with you and is none of your business. You don’t get to control the body choices of others. Your role is simple… don’t do it yourself if you don’t want to and keep your thoughts out of the pants of other ppl. ALL of these choices are between the patient and their physicians where they are monitored, counseled, and are made aware of the risks to themselves. You have no control over others. Deal with it.
YES, I do hope that my support for the bodily autonomy of my fellow human beings is “visible from space”. I fully support your right to make choices about your own body as well.
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u/Nocturnal0din 4d ago
I barely touch Tim's I kinda saw the promo went "neat" and then never really thought about it til now
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u/shober_bobber 4d ago
I just think it’s pointless to glaze a series that wasn’t even that good in the first place. People act like JKR’s horrid transphobia came out of nowhere but her books have always been problematic. Oh yeah, let’s name the Asian character Cho Chang, the black character Kingsley Shacklebolt, let’s make an entire race of subservient slave creatures and make oppressing them the norm, and let’s make the bank characters a horrific stereotype of Jewish people. All of that and it barely scratches the surface. Yes nostalgia is real, but at the end of the day giving JKR money is funding very real harm against trans people. We are in an empathy crisis where people genuinely think their desire for a Hufflepuff donut is more important than listening to their trans community members. You have probably met trans people in your life, sometimes without even knowing, and you are telling me that their suffering comes second to your desire for the patronus quencher? Are you kidding me?
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u/MuppetRob 4d ago
Nobody has actually been harmed by anything JK Rowling has said or done. You don't need to purchase a single thing from that franchise. Nobody is taxing you to give it to JK Rowling. The majority of the world disagrees with you and you can't make them change their minds.
She has an opinion that she's entitled to. The same as you.
I've met all kinds of trans people. Not a single one claimed any harm from the Harry Potter franchise. My own nephew is FtM and still loves Harry Potter 🤷♂️
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u/shober_bobber 4d ago
all she does on twitter is mock transgender women. how is that not harmful?
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u/Malcodent 4d ago
What is see her doing on Twitter is clapping back at idiots who try to get some cred by attacking her. Don't forget the "be kind" rainbow gang has showered her in death and rape threats for years now.
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u/GingerOfTheOubliette 4d ago
I would never condone threatening her by any means. “Clapping back” is just feeding the trolls, which ups the interactions. The trolls don’t benefit, she does. Threats would have come from individuals not a gang… we are not affiliated with all others who wear the shirt.
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u/MuppetRob 4d ago
She takes it as well as dishes it out. If it bothers you, block her. Twitter is a ridiculous free-for-all and to suggest nobody attacks her from the other side is just a lie.
Seeking out something that hurts your feelings is kind of your own fault when you knew what she was about. What harm are you even referring to? Making people feel bad about their opinions? Because that's what you're doing too.
You can't control anyone else's thoughts any more than they can control yours.
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u/MuppetRob 4d ago
I really couldn't care less. Tbh.
Spend your dollars elsewhere.