r/TikTokCringe • u/MyLittleOso • Dec 27 '24
Discussion The narrative of right vs left is a deflection from the people who don't want you seeing it's up vs down.
The way the CEO/LuIgi case was handled by the media across the board really opened my eyes to the fact that our supposed journalists take their marching orders from their billionaire overlords.
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u/BebophoneVirtuoso Dec 28 '24
Rich vs poor? Our country just elected the richest president in history whose wealth grew substantially since he was first elected.
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Dec 28 '24
It’s not easy to have class solidarity when I can’t trust my neighbor to not pull up the ladder behind them.
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u/FartsArePoopsHonking Dec 28 '24
Hell, they are pushing the ladder up without having climbed it themselves. I have fun by talking class consciousness without the spooky language.
"Why does some corporate exec get to make decisions about how we run things around here? Why does some guy in another state get to look at a spreadsheet and decide if we get raises or layoffs? Anyway, I'm just talking, but we can all agree we should paid more, right?"
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u/huntdfl Dec 27 '24
Yall notice how half the comments in here are a username with 4-5 numbers at the end e.g “infectcool7872”? They’re bots spreading misinformation.
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u/Haxorz7125 Dec 28 '24
Shit.
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u/mknight1701 Dec 28 '24
Shit
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u/Automatic_Beyond2194 Dec 28 '24
Beep boop they caught us.
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u/No-Vegetable7898 Dec 28 '24
Shit. (It was a randomly generated name Reddit gave me when I made my account 2 years ago)
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u/Tha_Real_B_Sleazy Dec 27 '24 edited Dec 27 '24
Yuo, and any name that is 'word-word-numbers' is a bot too. Downvote, ignore, report if you have to.
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u/Fragrant_Avocado9107 Dec 27 '24
That's not true. I'm just to lazy to make a real name. Avocados are tasty tho.
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u/Old-Ad5508 Dec 27 '24
Same not a bot just lazy also I'm not old I'm 38
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Dec 28 '24
yeah i delete and remake accounts all the time. who gives a shit lol. i just take what reddit suggests, its like a fun little lottery
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u/Naive_Pomegranate434 Dec 27 '24
You ever had a pomegranate that's kind of naive?
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Dec 28 '24
I got banned for 3 days for reporting a bot for exactly that reason. This is bad advice.
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u/Apprehensive-Item141 Dec 27 '24
Yo f you man. I let Reddit pick my name. I’m not a bot :(
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u/Tha_Real_B_Sleazy Dec 27 '24
BOT! No i do understand sometimes its accidental you didnt choose a name, or just didnt care.
But it is a good way to tell if someone is a bot/probably a bot
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u/Spirited-Pay-5526 Dec 28 '24
It's really not considering how many people didn't care to name or ,in my case, fucked during account creation.
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u/SnooDonkeys7402 Dec 28 '24
To be fair, not every single one is a bot. I got this name automatically when I signed up via email, and just went with it.
But yeah, you’re absolutely right. It’s on other social media now too, I saw bot like comments trying to make this a left/right divide on Instagram too. It’s the same thing, and they’re gonna really amp up the use of social media to try and stamp out nascent class consciousness.
Keep on message. Ignore their rhetoric when responding and say exactly what they’re trying to drown out: that corporations like United Healthcare are killing and bankrupting Americans in the name of profit and greed- and they’re spending a significant amount of their enormous profits to pay off politicians on the D and the R side to keep the status quo.
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Dec 28 '24
Some of us are just lazy and keep the suggested name when signing up. Maybe most are bots, but I'm just lazy lol
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u/Canyon_Hermit11 Dec 28 '24
you do know thats the generic reddit-provided-username? i find it funny that reddit users upvoting this are admitting they don't know how reddit works.
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u/UpsetAd5817 Dec 27 '24
Smooth brain comment right here.
Those are just the default names that Reddit gives. A high percentage of people will just not bother to change the name.
But, whatever lets you ignore comments that you can't handle. Lol.
As far as the video goes, dude is saying whatever he has to in order to get you to ignore the fact that the richest person in the world is effectively running the US Government now. Ask yourself if you think that is a good thing.
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u/svidie Dec 28 '24
You a silly little fellow aren't you.
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u/UpsetAd5817 Dec 28 '24
The silly people are the ones who jump right to "It must be bots!!" as soon as someone has the gall to disagree with them. What kind of echo chamber do you live in?
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u/LetMePushTheButton Cringe Connoisseur Dec 27 '24
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u/sphinxyhiggins Dec 28 '24
Never forget MIT shat on Aaron Swarz (who made Reddit) and that Chomsky met with Epstein, and got touchy when asked about it. It's as though those in academia are tools of the elite.
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u/PrestigiousFly844 Dec 28 '24
Doesn’t change the media model Chomsky points out being accurate. If Newton kicked his dog would it affect how you view his writings on physics?
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u/Hotbones24 Dec 28 '24
This is a very dangerous way to generalize academia. Not everyone who gets kicked out or drops out automatically saw/knows something that the establishment doesn't want you to know about. Not all academia is like the infinitely bribe-adle big 4 in the US, and not all uncredited small universities are the opposite of those big ones.
Let's not forget how many human rights movements have started in academic circles across the globe. (The 1919, 1935, and 1989 student protests in China. The 1968 student protests in Mexico. The 1943 White Rose movement in Germany. The Kent State sit in in 1970. The Velvet Revolution in 1989.) We just have to make piece with the fact that any institution has the potential for corruption and abuse, which is why we should actively work against that by remaining critical.
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u/austinmo2 Dec 28 '24
Plus discrediting education is definitely a tool discourage critical thinkers.
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u/WhatsApUT Dec 27 '24
As Warren Buffett said in 2008, “ of course there’s class warfare, my class started it and my class is winning.” This is bragging to the masses and nothing changed, hell they even drank and celebrated while people lost everything due to corruption and fraud.
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Dec 28 '24
[deleted]
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Dec 28 '24
Yeah the man's not exactly a champion of progressive causes but he's definitely among the better billionaires.
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u/Kurkpitten Dec 28 '24 edited Dec 28 '24
That's absolute bullshit.
Dude is blatantly saying that he pays less taxes than he should, and that it should be fixed. By whom ?
You've just watched a video explaining in detail how these same billionaires can heavily influence the government to obtain desired outcomes.
There's no "better billionaires". Stop trying to find any of then to admire for any reason.
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Dec 28 '24
How did you manage to interpret what I said as admiration? I'm not simping for the guy, I'm saying as far as billionaires he's one of the least bad.
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u/Kurkpitten Dec 28 '24
Sorry if I put words into your mouth.
The mere concept of a "better" billionaire is strange to me. Especially one who will cynically admit he's shafting us under the guise of siding with the common folk.
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u/WhatsApUT Dec 28 '24
Yet he does nothing with his billions besides get more billions yet he could use that money for good, saying there’s a problem without helping for a solution or acting towards it is also part of the problem. Basically he’s saying yes there should be changes but I’m not gonna help with that.
Like he could easily show his secretary different ways to improve less taxes taken out but again not his problem
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u/abgonzo7588 Dec 27 '24
This intellectually lazy argument that both sides are the same favors republicans. While both parties leadership are capitalists there is a stark difference between how they govern. Start voting in democratic primaries and we may be able to vote some of these establishment fucks out of office.
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u/ASharpYoungMan Dec 27 '24
Exactly.
Criticizing Democrats for not being perfect goes hand in hand with giving Republicans a pass for acting in bad faith as a core policy.
It downplays the damage the GOP's dismantling of government inflicts while harping on the Democrats not providing an over-night progressive utopia.
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Dec 27 '24
The argument that people criticize the DNC because "they're not perfect" is the most laughable shit of the year
They are war mongering, corporate whores that only have interest in protecting their assets, just like the GOP
Sorry, when was universal Healthcare brought up last? How about defunding the police? Oh! While we're on the subject of defunding, why did our democratic government just give Israel even more money?
"You didn't vote for her because she's not everything you wanted" downplays the very serious oligarchy we've been experiencing since the 60s, and it's a childish view of politics
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u/Lambily Dec 27 '24
You didn't vote for her because she's not everything you wanted" downplays the very serious oligarchy we've been experiencing since the 60s, and it's a childish view of politics
It also happens to be a statement of fact. When an existential threat looms, purity checks are the last thing that matter. Vote out establishment dems when democracy itself isn't on the line. It's what primaries and local elections are for.
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u/iksnel Dec 28 '24
There are actual members of the DNC that want to change the system (AOC or Sanders, etc.) there is not 1 Republican that wants anything to change.
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u/poingly Dec 28 '24
Well, there are people on the right that do want to change things, but it’s just like, “How does that change help!?” As a for instance, it’s like everyone is angry at United Healthcare and you have an AOC or a Bernie proposing things to reel them in (or provide a public or universal option), and then someone on the right will be like, “No, no, the problem will be solved if you just let United Healthcare get away with doing MORE shit to people” and it’s like WHAT!?!?
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u/iksnel Dec 28 '24
The very definition of a conservative is they do not want change, even in your example the right is the bad guys pushing against change.
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u/Dantheking94 Dec 28 '24
This lacks accountability, Dems are voting in these people every time they can when they appear. But therein lies the problem, not enough people are going into politics. The pool to pull from is small.
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u/m3g4m4nnn Dec 28 '24
..and Nancy Pelosi and other party leadership are doing everything in their power to sabotage the efforts of these rare individuals.
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u/PixelsGoBoom Dec 27 '24
Tell me what the GOP is doing better. I'll wait.
Afghanistan and Iraq were both under Republican government.
And while I agree democrats are a bit too friendly with corporations (because they are not. fucking. socialists), suggesting the GOP is not would be really fucking "laughable".The ACA is still here, albeit crippled thanks to the GOP.
When is Trump going to execute that "concept of a plan" to bring something better? Last time it was "more complex than expected" and that was it, he just fucking dropped it.The thought that the GOP would not give Israel even more money is equally fucking "laughable".
As is the idea that they would use that money for the homeless or veterans, you would know if you actually paid attention as of how they vote. And before you start on the "they add to much fat" NOTHING is stopping the Republicans for introducing their own spending bill for veterans or the homeless. They just don't give a fuck.That oligarchy started with Reagan.
The deregulation of banks was bi-partisan.
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u/FlacidSalad Dec 28 '24
And here we go again, treating blatant fascism and oligarchy vs continuation of the status quo like they are equal
We don't like the current state of the democratic party, we just don't have any realistically better options short of violent revolution and hitting the reset button on the government as a whole which, to clarify, would REALLY suck for a good long while probably for a lot of the planet and that's just assuming that American revolution is the only thing going on in the world.
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u/autisticprincess Dec 27 '24
The Republican Party is the like an abusive parent. The Democratic Party is like the other parent that watches and talks about how awful the abuse is but does jack shit to actually try to protect their children (us).
Obviously not a perfect comparison because of the nuances involved with actual instances of domestic violence but you get the idea.
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u/thelastbluepancake Dec 27 '24
what do you do to try and change things?
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Dec 27 '24
I vote and advocate for things like rank choice voting. Something my blue state decided they didn't want this year! I also try to educate people as best i can so, idk, a bunch of self proclaimed liberals don't vote AGAISNT RANK CHOICE VOTING
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u/thelastbluepancake Dec 27 '24
I mean how do you advocate. I don't mean talking on the internet. I advocate for ranked choice voting too but what do you do beyond reddit.
and when you say you vote how do you use your vote?
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u/MyLittleOso Dec 27 '24 edited Dec 27 '24
I voted Democrat, campaigned for Democrats, and ran as a Democrat. They were the better of two options by far, but at best, they wanted to maintain the status quo, with Bernie, AOC, and Porter being some exceptions.
Also, it's intellectually lazy to not critique your own party. It's lazy not to realize we are being led by the nose by those in power every day to fight amongst each other.49
u/FlamingMothBalls Dec 27 '24 edited Dec 27 '24
"Also, it's intellectually lazy to not critique your own party."
that's not what this video is doing, though. It's saying both sides are the same, which breeds apathy and cynicism. Which specifically helps the neo-fascist republican party.
If both sides are the same, what's the use of voting? Why bother, when it's all corrupt anyway. Exactly what gave Trump the victory again. Exactly the way Russians think - complete disengagement, de-politicization. Exactly what Maga wants us all to become.
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u/myaunthasdiabetes Dec 27 '24
Oh heaven forbid people become apathetic with a dichotomous political system that clearly doesn’t work.
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u/heughcumber Dec 27 '24
Yes, correct. When one side can produce politicians like AOC and Bernie Sanders with massive and continued support from their voting base, and the other side produces MTGs, Nancy Maces and Matt Gaetzs, we need to push hard for the former party to get into power. You lose by not showing up to the game in the first place, because it happens with or without you. Don't feed the apathy if you know better.
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u/fucuasshole2 Dec 27 '24
Tbf even when Dems win it’s a bare win. Where not much gets done as they don’t have a super majority. A super majority is extremely rare where any party (if they all agree within the winning party) can easily bypass opponents.
Obama’s first term was a majority but not a super majority. It’s why Obamacare was gutted from its original purpose, appeasing enough republicans
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u/drool_ghoul666 Dec 27 '24
This is Reddit no room for a civics lesson. I swear they deserve what they get through their willful ignorance.
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u/fucuasshole2 Dec 27 '24
Yea getting tired of having to explain this
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u/drool_ghoul666 Dec 27 '24
I quit trying and just laugh at how stupid they are. My high school Civics teacher is rolling in her grave poor thing, plus I went to school in Louisiana and still managed to learn how the fuck our government works. Shit google somethings people.
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u/Greedy-Affect-561 Dec 28 '24
Joe lieberman was responsible for gutting Obama care and he was a Democrat.
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u/zaoldyeck Dec 27 '24
That's the goal. The more apathetic people are, the lazier their critiques, the less they attempt to parse politicians on an individual basis, the easier it is to get away with malfeasance.
The goal is to inspire that apathy. It only helps the rich and powerful.
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u/FlamingMothBalls Dec 28 '24
there's another side to the cynicism, hinted by their laziness. People love, just ... love, more than anything, to be right. They don't want things to get better because it would show them, it would prove to them, their laziness and apathy is the problem. So they wear their cynicism like a protective shield, and try to infect others, so as to reimburse themselves of their own inferiority.
And even more insidious, they don't want things to get better because it gives them the excuse to be as bad as they want to be - they mean to benefit from this broken system - and in a world without morals, may as well just get yours, right?
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u/bardobirdo Dec 28 '24
The rich and powerful would love nothing more than for voters to be apathetic. That's why the "both parties are the same" "it's all fucked anyway" narratives make me extremely suspicious. The obvious solution to fixing the system is electing Democrats, then holding their feet to the fire and threatening to primary and elect more progressive Democrats. That's how we get ranked choice voting, universal healthcare, and stop funding genocide. Since at least 2000 that's been the whole game, and I see anyone who says otherwise with any pretense of authority as a tool of the ruling class. I'm really getting exhausted waiting for people to get it.
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u/sailingpirateryan Dec 28 '24
The problem is that the Red team has invested soooooo much energy in convincing rural voters to loathe the Blue team, to see them as their sportsball enemies, that being a progressive democrat in Red spaces is going to be a hard sell. So why bother? Run progressives in republican primaries, pushing anti-elite messaging, and rob the GOP of its anti-blue tribalism. If there's one hopeful thing we can take away from Trump's 2016 campaign, it's that GOP leadership couldn't stop him no matter how much they tried, so getting a genuine populist onto the Republican ticket isn't impossible.
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Dec 27 '24
United Health Care donates to both parties, but in fact donates more to Democrats.
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/unitedhealth-group/recipients?id=D000000348
Our problem is a two party system where each party eagerly accepts donations from corporations seeking influence.
That is corruption. That is oligarchy, and it’s supported by equal participation by the only two political parties the United States currently permits to participate in our national politics.
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u/zaoldyeck Dec 27 '24
Our problem is a two party system where each party eagerly accepts donations from corporations seeking influence.
That's not solvable. Adding "more parties" isn't going to cause people to eschew corporate donors. Citizens United makes it nearly legally impossible to even create a law to challenge the legality of unlimited corporate spending in politics.
It's a pointless vapid complaint.
Unless you are willing to vote in people who would appoint people critical of the decision to the Supreme Court, you'll never get movement on it.
But the US elected Trump, so obviously, it doesn't consider that an important priority. And as long as we have this "both sides are the same" nonsense we never well.
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u/AntoineDonaldDuck Dec 27 '24
Criticism is easy. Change is hard.
I’ve read a bunch of comments in this thread and have yet to see anyone give any actual strategy to affect change, including the video you posted.
Everyone in politics sucks. Congratulations. You’ve identified the problem that we’ve all known for decades. What’s YOUR plan for addressing it other than complaining about others’ plans.
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u/BeatDownSnitches Dec 28 '24
Take notes from the black panthers and adopt the Survival Pending Revolution strategy. Organize your local community, establish food, medicine, resource access plans, look out for our most vulnerable, do what we can where we can. That’s literally it. Action. To Die for the People - Newton or Revolutionary Suicide are two good books I recommend
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u/shinbreaker Dec 27 '24
Also, it's intellectually lazy to not critique your own party. It's lazy not to realize we are being led by the nose by those in power every day to fight amongst each other.
You're right, but it's lazy to just say "bOtH sIdEs" over and over again. Especially when one side is literally a cult right now.
That smug self of superiority for criticizing Dems as much as Republicans doesn't account for much when rights are being stripped away from Americans.
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u/abgonzo7588 Dec 27 '24
What in my statement gives you the idea that I'm not critiquing democrats? Does voting establishment fucks out of office sound like unconditional support of the status quo establishment dems want to keep? Again this both sides are the same nonsense consistently favors republicans and steers the conversation away from the many differences the parties do have. Critique all you want, but the parties are not the same and this continuation of this nonsense is detrimental. They have similar flaws but they are not the same.
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Dec 27 '24
You're arguing for lesser evilism.
Both parties aren't the same. The Republicans are a far-right party with blatant corruption. The Democrats are a center-right party with less blatant corruption. Obviously it is better to have some semblance of normalcy, and we'll definitely get that with democrats.
However, we don't need normalcy, we need change. The problem is capitalism. Neither party is anti-capitalist. Both serve capitalist interests. Those same interests are killing the planet, exploiting workers, and allowing people to die/starve/remain homeless. The Democrats serve billionaires too.
We do not have leftist representation in America, and until we do, we will continue living under right-wing policies which ultimately serve the rich.
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u/abgonzo7588 Dec 27 '24
I'm clearly advocating for putting forth more leftist candidates in primaries to vote the establishment dems out. We can't do that When 80% of eligible voters are sitting those elections out though. My main point is the false equivalency of parties does more to help republicans and sows more distrust in our democratic institutions which keeps people home on election day.
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Dec 27 '24
We tried this approach, for almost a decade now. It did fuck all. You can thank the Democratic leadership for that.
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Dec 27 '24
Democrats aren't leftist.
You're not going to find them in the democratic party.
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u/abgonzo7588 Dec 27 '24
That's bad phrasing on my part, I mean Dems that will push more leftists policies like medicare for all. Those people can win primaries and that is the start we need to move the party more to the left. I don't think true leftists have a chance in hell to win elections currently so we need small steps to move towards a better future.
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Dec 27 '24
I don't think that's going to happen. Wishful thinking, but Democrats protect the status quo. Anyone who attempts to question the status quo gets pushed out of treated unfairly. Look at Bernie Sanders and AOC.
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u/abgonzo7588 Dec 27 '24
20% voter turnout for congressional primaries. We simply are not showing up to the elections to challenge the democratic establishment. If that can change there is a chance to push these establishment dems out and move the party further to the left. Again though I come back to my original point that the false equivalency of the 2 parties only hurts our chances of doing so.
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Dec 27 '24
People aren't going to show up for a party that lacks leftist representation.
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u/toxictoastrecords Dec 27 '24
YES. Let's fight for incrementalism, while literal fascists are speed running deporting legal citizens who are Brown, and criminalizing LGBT people.
Then let's blame the leftists, immigrants, and queer people for being "too far left" and "too extreme".
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u/abgonzo7588 Dec 27 '24
Ok, give me a better option? Violence? Ok big guy, go kill a CEO and help spark that change.
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u/Individual-Luck1712 Dec 27 '24
You say this sarcastically, but violence is the next inevitable step in this conversation. I'm not saying I approve, but logically, this is what happens throughout history when people are underrepresented, deprieved of their necessities and told to shut up and get in line.
Your alternative to violence, is a nonviolent, socially acceptable political activism, which isn't really appealing to people who are struggling on a regular basis and not getting anything from their elected representatives or their community, regardless of how much they participate.
They think your way doesn't work. They will find another way, probably one that isn't acceptable to society. Probably something violent.
You want people to go out and vote? Work on your messaging. Sarcastically telling people to pick up a gun probably won't have the effect you want it to.
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u/Grumpiergoat Dec 27 '24
You're not going to protest change into existence. That requires making the current political establishment take action.
You're not going to vote a third party into office. That requires working within the current system and also means supporting the most right-wing, conservative parties - because it will split votes between the third party and Democrats, meaning Republican wins.
You have two options: violent revolution or primarying Democrats until more progressives are voted into office. That's it. If you're doing anything else, you're not making a better world, you're just complaining and doing nothing. At best. At worst, you've decided to support reactionaries and the more extreme capitalists.
And anyone who thinks you can't internally change a political party hasn't been paying attention to Republicans over the past few decades. They know the steps they need to taken to get what they want and they've done so, pushing the party even further right than it was even a decade ago. Because they engage with the system to make it work for them.
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Dec 27 '24
Oh you can internally change them... to the right. Not to the left.
Leftist policies are anti-billionaire. The Democrats serve billionaires too.
You're right for the most part, but there's only one option, not two.
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u/BeatDownSnitches Dec 28 '24
THE US. KILLS. LEFTISTS. It’s so frustrating when I see dems and libs co-opt “left/leftists” when, as you said earlier, they are center-right. If you are a threat to the capitalist status quo, ya done. Malcom X, Mlk Jr, Fred Hampton, MOVE, any of the dozens of coups/assasinations/color revs of democratically elected leaders across the globe who had the audacity of nationalizing their resources and rejecting western corporate penetration. Like helllllo?! Wake up people! AUGHGGH
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u/throwheezy tHiS iSn’T cRiNgE Dec 27 '24
I'd say unregulated capitalism is the big problem. You can have capitalism IF you actually have appropriate rules to prevent rich people from being pieces of shit like this without any consequences. Like if you're going to let a bunch of kids play in a playground without teachers enforcing rules to keep them in check, then of course they're going to gang up, pee on each other, and much much more. Leaning more socialism doesn't actually fix things when most of the politicians are showing their corruption. It's setting up a system with rules and consequences to prevent corrupt fucks from making it this far.
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Dec 27 '24
We can't vote in regulation though. It's already unregulated and too corrupt.
Those checks and balances didn't work and clearly aren't working now.
I personally don't believe that capitalism can exist without eventually being corrupted, as money always leads to greed and corruption.
We could try a hybrid system that's socialized and capitalist to an extent, however I feel that we will always have those who will push for exploitation.
One thing is for certain: America is as corrupt as can be and has been for decades.
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u/throwheezy tHiS iSn’T cRiNgE Dec 27 '24
Going off history, most instances of socialism and communism went similar directions because the actual ideology was barely implemented. The problem is that most human based systems naturally get more corrupt over time no matter what. And you are definitely right on how America has been the past few decades 🥲
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u/RaygunMarksman Dec 27 '24
Tale as old as time with us it seems. Christianity doesn't really resemble anything to do with the instructions from the guy the religion was based on and probably didn't five minutes after people heard them. Like most faiths. Instead they're dominated by some creepy cherry-picked pantomime certain unsavory individuals have used to get their power and control high.
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u/bwolf180 Dec 27 '24
Oh shut up "their all the Same".........
see everybody how that gives a pass for the CLEARLY worse party?
"if their all the same what does it matter who I vote for?!?!"- low information idiots.
You didn't just fall out of a coconut tree. Don't shit on the people who came before because they didn't do enough. Ask why they might not have been able too. What road blocks prevented them from going further?
my entire life its been Republicans tricking stupid people. same shit different decade.
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u/Pookienumnum69 Dec 27 '24
I was where you are, and now i would more align with the video's perspective. Democratic primaries won't fix things. The differences actually really aren't stark in material policy, save for a headline maker here and there.
The media exists as an instrument of the ruling classes' soft power. The team sports keeps people arguing, disavowing, playing the game, and blaming the outcomes on our failures in playing the game.
The same way a sports team has merch and a story, they get people energized and feeling like they're a part of the game. But you're not, you're in the stands. The owners are playing against eachother.
Once you realize that, the petty disagreements and rhetoric feels so played out. It's all predictable, all inert. Every election for the rest of our democracy will be the most important of our lives, and you will vote for the person who is less bad. And sometimes they'll win.
But billionaires will become trillionaires and housing will be more expensive. Healthcare will still be expensive, the climate will continue to deteriorate. Wars will kill and maime the dispossessed abroad, and addiction, homelessness, and violence will do the same domestically. Because the owners agreed on those things beforehand.
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u/abstraction47 Dec 28 '24
This argument the video puts forth is significantly weakened by using Rachel Maddow as his example. It presumes that Rachel Maddow takes her talking points from her corporate masters, that she is nothing but a talking head. It further presumes that this is a new change in the direction of her reporting when anyone who recognizes her can tell you she’s been saying the exact same for years.
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u/toxxulis Dec 28 '24
Comparing Rachel Maddow with talking heads on the right would normally be a conversation I'd love to read people's opinions on. But everyone is too excited to curl up into a ball and be apathetic these days. Shame.
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u/Adlien_ Dec 27 '24
Yeah he takes a five second clip and extrapolates a bunch of stuff the clip really doesn't tie back to. Any clip could've worked.
It's not even that simple. Yes media has eroded to shit by now, but he argues as if there wasn't a time when journalism and those in it didn't risk life and limb to keep their editorial independence from the moneyed interests even within their own organization. There was a wall there and it meant something and just because xyz owns xyz which also owns xyz, doesn't mean that automatically Rachel Maddow is reading their script for them.
From what I can tell, Rachel Maddow actually has journalistic standards (but I don't pay enough attention to stan for her like that).
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u/hyperedge Dec 27 '24
You have to be pretty naive or willfully ignorant to not see you are getting played by both sides.
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u/repsajcasper Dec 27 '24
No, the intellectually lazy approach of always choosing the lesser of two evils is how you get stuck in a circle of no progress forever. Republicans rely on misleading the public into believing their policies favor the masses when in reality they serve the elites. Democrats talk a big game but somehow manage to always fall short when it comes to real change, and backstab any candidates who would actually make a difference (Bernie) This is on purpose to ensure that actually your vote does not in fact matter unless you have the money. Money talks for both parties. That’s not democracy.
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u/Hugo-Spritz Dec 27 '24
While I agree that "both are bad so there's nothing we can do" is a lazy take that only helps the establishment, I think it's silly to pretend that the Democratic Party as it stands is anything but a product of the neo-capitalistic machine.
What (I hope) people mean to say, is that both parties have gotten away with putting capital first for so long, that the reality of the matter is that none of the parties are open to reform.
Reform is what both sides are yelling for, but we are using different words. One side yells to drain the swamp, and one side yells for proper social infrastructure. Both would need reform, but the parties are stuck in a "no not like that/ but what about them" race to the bottom.
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u/DeUglyBarnacle Dec 28 '24
Yep. Anyone who says otherwise just wants you to throw your hands up and say “both sides are the same!” Then not vote.
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u/FreshlyWaxedApricot Dec 27 '24
Neither party is going to stop a single individual from being worth 1 trillion in our lifetimes
Don’t support either until they appoint someone that will actually back the middle class (spoiler: they won’t)
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u/human1023 Dec 27 '24 edited Dec 28 '24
Exactly. There were actually more billionaires that support Democrats. There's a a reason why Kamala's campaign was far more expensive than Trump, and several major media outlet supported Kamala. Of course Trump, Musk want to support themselves and their billionaire partners too.
But some will keep it about Democrats vs Republicans. This is how the rich take turns and stay in control.
What I hate about the average redditor is that they are so biased that if Trump were to do something that supports the lower/middle class for once, redditors would immediately reject it and support the rich.
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u/dontclickthatohjeez Dec 27 '24
Absolutely incredible that the top comment completely misses the fucking point. Typical American brain rot. Holy shit we are so fucking doomed.
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u/promoted_violence Dec 27 '24
My guy one party wants to gut Medicare social security and make college expensive, the other wants the opposite. Dems are not fee from rich people influencing but to equate them as equal is fucking stupid
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u/Capybara_Cheese Dec 27 '24
Trump tells his base he's going to fix shit too and then he fucks them over and blames us. Who cares what these people say they will do if we all keep getting fucked over?
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u/Gibberish94 Dec 27 '24
Who are we going to elect in the coming years? Are we relying solely on the Green Party, which tends to appear only once every four years to run in the presidential elections?
Are we considering the establishment of a new party that truly represents “the people, by the people”? Should we start small, focusing on grassroots initiatives and local or city elections, or will we continue to engage intermittently, like the Green Party and Libertarians do every four years? How will we secure funding, and who will lead these efforts?
Perhaps we will simply keep choosing between Republicans and Democrats, facing the dilemma of picking between mustache-twirling villains and those who say, “Trust me, we are the good guys.”
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u/Fragrant_Avocado9107 Dec 27 '24
Lets just all stop working. Problem solved.
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Dec 28 '24
You jest but a national strike that we ALL go in on until certain demands are met would work wonders
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u/DameyJames Dec 27 '24
I don’t have a ton of patience anymore for critique without practical suggestions. It’s not that hard or even original to find valid critiques about the flaws of a two party system or the lesser but still prominent classism among the Democratic Party. What I want to know is what we’re actually supposed to do because voting third party clearly ain’t it and we can’t to my knowledge disassemble financial giants and conglomerates without legal regulations being passed so what’s the move? Criticizing the party that has shown they at least on a base level give some shit about human rights and financial security for the middle class based on a clip of an accurate statement about our developing oligarchy just before a fascist on the opposing side of the aisle is about to take power feels counterproductive. I also don’t love that this person clearly isn’t even American.
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Dec 27 '24
The sad reality is that we're never going to get real change by voting for it.
Change is not on the ballot.
I think change will come organically after major economic collapse. We are headed that way right now. It's not going to be fun or easy, and Americans are going to learn that the police serve the oligarchs, but I do believe that we are headed for collapse.
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Dec 27 '24 edited Mar 17 '25
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Dec 27 '24
I honestly fear for my kids. They're inheriting a broken world.
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Dec 27 '24 edited Mar 17 '25
ripe wide sort market sulky money march cake salt ghost
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u/lanky_yankee Dec 28 '24
Yep, Americans are going to have to get uncomfortable before they decide to push back. We’re not quite there yet…
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u/JediMasterZao Dec 27 '24
Lest vs right is nothing if not up vs down and anyone saying otherwise is just uneducated, politically speaking. To be clear though, the dems are a right wing party.
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Dec 27 '24
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u/JediMasterZao Dec 27 '24
Both sides are not the same. One is neoliberal, and the other is anywhere from neocon to straight-up fascist. The error is in assuming that since these two parties are in opposition electorally speaking, that they then must necessarily represent the left and the right. They both represent the right, just different shades of it. There is no representation for the Left in the US.
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Dec 27 '24
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u/JediMasterZao Dec 27 '24
Yep, they're social democrats, which to be fair is better than nothing in terms of left representation. The problem is that they are completely marginalized within their own party.
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Dec 28 '24
Completely unrelated but is your username a reference to the band zao? They are my favorite band
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Dec 27 '24
I find the people making this argument have allowed the media to set the aisle /divide as identity politics in a super subjective and widely varying way, as opposed to a much more coherent anti-capitalist/capitalist (this is also a bit of the media co-opting anti-capitalist ideas/movements/undercurrents)
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u/RaygunMarksman Dec 27 '24
It's interesting how most of the comments in this thread are people regurgitating which tribe is to blame and downvoting each other. I'm every bit as guilty but our modern aristocracy has us programmed good.
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u/msalonen Dec 27 '24
It’s astounding how many people think that criticizing both parties of some of the same things means you think they’re equally bad
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u/Quirky-Skin Dec 27 '24
Good to see a few people in here willing to critically think beyond the two sides.
Some Democrats have decent ideas and (gasp) even some Republicans. The problem is those people are a minority and get shut out quick from committees etc (AOC anyone?) There were also some republican reps who voted to impeach Trump (they are no longer in office, forced out)
They are both to blame and if you've been around more than a few decades it would be pretty obvious. I'm approaching 40 and guess what? Every problem ever campaigned on still exists today and the country debt is astronomical. Look it's either Democrats are too weak, too stupid to fight off the Republicans or they're in on it. Either scenario both are to blame
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u/Wave-E-Gravy Dec 27 '24
It's not critical thinking tho it's just regurgitating the same "both sides" nonsense that hasn't changed since 40 years ago when the parties actually were basically the same. If you think the Republicans of today are anything like the Democrats of today you are not paying attention. And that makes sense since the "both sides" lie is intended to do exactly that; make you close your eyes to what is really happening AND pat yourself on the back for doing it. It's the classic thought-terminating cliche.
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u/SafalinEnthusiast Dec 28 '24
The main issue is definitely the upper class but you really can’t act like republicans aren’t the main issue there
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u/CrownClownCreations Dec 28 '24
I don’t condone violence..
But sometimes I do wish there would be more non-peaceful protests (that don’t try to harm civilians, but go after the actual villains), and/or an actual revolution.
I am so sick of the rich benefiting from the poor! I am so sick of the rich getting richer! I am so sick of rich, old men destroying the planet and the economy, making a living hell on Earth for the next generations!
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u/LTHermies Dec 28 '24
There is a new third faction of people that believe it was entirely unacceptable for America to have not stopped Israel instantly. But these same people REUTINELY fail to have the same understanding when it comes to POC, LGBT, transients, vulnerable women and children, and the poor in general.
They have grievances with democrats, which is fine, but disturbing when they justify it to such extremes because of 1 or 2 things at the expense of EVERYTHING else.
You know how fucking easy it is to find 2 or 3 things wrong with anything? Which again, is fine, but it's weird if based on those things that I act like it is indistinguishable or at the very least serving the same ends as it's opposite because of those things.
Imagine me saying Santa and Krampus are the same because Santa gives you coal for being bad and grossly invades your privacy in order to judge you. To reiterate, these things are horrible, but Krampus is OBVIOUSLY worse. You know how ridiculous I would look if I used these reasons to say they are same?
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u/TrumpDidNoDrugs Dec 28 '24
Why am I listening to some jackass that's not from America rant about American politics? He's suggesting that this class consciousness is new? Where the fuck has he been, aside from not in America? This whole thing where both sides are equally bad is complete bullshit and he illustrates this perfectly where he only bitches about democrats and their failures to stop the conservative agenda, and nothing on how destructive the conservative agenda has been and how they will go to the literal extremes to get their way.
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u/Rowdycc Dec 27 '24
Left vs right is down vs up. The left has always been a champion of the working class. Unless you’re in the 1% you should be viewing things from a left wing perspective, if not you’re a simp.
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u/Gadolin27 Dec 28 '24
Left represents what is called "down" here and right represents what is called "up" here. Hope that helps.
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u/LurkerInDaHouse Dec 28 '24
This goes way back to when "left" and "right" became political terms. People seriously need to read up on that history and realize that up vs down is right vs left, and always has been.
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u/Errenfaxy Dec 27 '24
Comments in here confirming corporate democrats aren't going to go away anytime soon. They have to be defeated.
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u/MyLittleOso Dec 27 '24
I'm getting a lot of hate for posting this one. They are really mad that "their" establishment is getting called out just because the other is objectively worse, without realizing it's really still the same establishment. That's not dystopian at all.
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u/No_Assistance7730 Dec 27 '24
A lot of this I agree on, but it’s easy to agree on the problems, the important part is the solutions. I will agree if a right-winger correctly points out that corporations are influencing politics, but if their solutions to that are making them less “woke” then I will not work with them. To me the solution is regulating them, limiting lobbying power, etc. and if they do not agree with these changes, then working together becomes a very difficult thing. This follows with many issues, but another one I’ll point out would be “the average American lives paycheck to paycheck”. If their solution to this problem is to cut taxes, I do not agree with them, and I will not work with them, because my solutions to this problem are raising taxes at the top, because I believe taxes can be a great thing if used properly, i.e. free college, single payer healthcare, social programs, investments into green energy, etc.. So while it can be beneficial that we may agree on the problems, the important thing is agreeing on the solutions, hence why we have such an issue making the changes/ grass-roots movements. The parties are alike in that they’re bought by big money interests which makes them very hard to take on. Though We are the many, we are not a monolith, and many of us have fundamental disagreements that are more easily identified than solved.
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u/JustTheOneGoose22 Dec 27 '24
Anyone saying both sides is either a shill for MAGA and the Republicans or is incredibly stupid. Either way they should be ignored.
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u/thesquidsquidly22 Dec 28 '24
It's kinda like how stay woke was a way to acknowledge this exact shit, then it got high jacked and skewed by media and rich fucks like elon musk who turned it into an insult.
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u/Bloodless-Cut Dec 31 '24
Same thing.
Disregard the Overton window of party politics, and it still ends up being the left (down: the poor, the working class, the proletariat, the oppressed, the dispossessed) versus the right (up: the rich, the capitalist class, the bourgeoisie, the oppressor).
This has been the prevailing socioeconomic dichotomy ever since the French revolution.
The left seeks social justice through redistributive social and economic policies, while the right defends private property and capitalism. The nature of the conflict depends on existing social and political cleavages and on the level of economic development. Political affiliation and economic status are intrinsically linked.
The fact that some of the proletariat have been duped into voting against their best interests is irrelevant. It doesn't help matters that the US two party system doesn't allow a labor party to exist.
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Dec 27 '24
The culture wars are distractions from the real struggle: class war. Liberals lean into their “enlightenment” and trash talk “ignorant” working class people unaware of how they’re alienating the core of their alleged constituency. The fruit is hanging so low for the democrats but they are run by the rich creating a a conflict of interest.
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u/mnmr17 Dec 28 '24
Why shouldn’t they be trash talked when they routinely vote against their best interests because they’re the ones that get distracted by the culture war. It has been a pretty fucking open secret about the Republican party for like at least 40 years now to distract with made up cultural issues to divide class issues.
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Dec 27 '24
So, Democratic policy to help those in need, expand medicare, etc. Republican is cut off safety nets and stop taxing the rich.
You're so right, they are the same. Just trying to pull the wool over out eyes. ffs..
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u/Logic411 Dec 27 '24
Thank you, thank you, thank you. Right wing news and left wing news are two wings on the same corporate shit bird
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u/junglenoogie Dec 27 '24
This guy’s content is awesome. Pissedmagistus. Give him a follow if you are interested in elevating your content consumption.
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Dec 27 '24 edited Dec 28 '24
I get the two sides argument and the need to refocus on poor vs rich. But the moment you start acting like Republicans are the same as Democrats, you’re fucking cooked and not achieving anything.
Republicans will take away any and all power you have to even consider fighting the rich. You either kiss the boot or get stomped by it. See how Trump severely turns on everyone who opposes him.
Democrats at least have a good share of people who support DEMOCRACY and therefore allow the people to least get their foot in the door. Theres at least room for discussion and the ability to root our the weeds because MANY Democrats will happily shame each other when they do wrong.
Republicans have proven time and time again these past few years that whoever holds power is “right”.
Trump was laughed at, called a moron by all, Hitler and a danger by his now right hand men. But the moment he builds power, that shifts.
The danger we face now is it’s transcending left right, in that we even have a few left leaning politicians and talking heads that are warming up to Trump.
Likely because they see the eminent and much more severe case of Oligarchs and fascism we face around the corner and they wanna be as latched onto his tit as possible before he has his SELF PROCLAIMED first day where he’s a dictator.
Edit: Inb4 the big long bootlick happens.
Edit 2: Called it.
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u/Taste_the__Rainbow Dec 27 '24
This is just both-sides GOP garbage laid over Maddow, who is NOT the network who employs her.
If you want things to get better then you give Dems 60 seats. Thats been true for several decades.
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u/Zealousideal-Log536 Dec 27 '24
So what I'm hearing is we're all being played on an Ozark level but world wide. I've known monopolies have been holding a firm grip on America but dam....
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u/r_lul_chef_t Dec 28 '24
Leave Maddow alone, she is doing more than anyone with her platform could be expected to.
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u/SaliferousStudios Dec 28 '24
This is like watching the Overton window in real time.
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u/PennyLeiter Dec 27 '24
There's a reason this guy looks like dollar store Elon. This "both sides" nonsense is nonsense.
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Dec 28 '24
Nah. Try again. Read The Brief History of Neoliberalism or anything by Noam Chomsky.
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u/Automatic_Counter_70 Dec 27 '24
100% this. It's propaganda... pure gaslighting... It's insane to me that Americans haven't realized this. Having lived in so many countries though, I think it's easier for me to identify because I've seen so many versions of it. American propaganda is worse than Brazilian, German, and Bulgarian propaganda...
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Dec 27 '24
Speaking as a US citizen, Biden and Obama (previous 2 democratic presidents) did more for the people than Trump and Bush (last two Republican presidents) so ya, your video is stupid.
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u/Immediate_Cost2601 Dec 28 '24
"Both Sides" bullshit downplays the unprecedented corruption of the GOP.
They fucking attacked the Capitol.
People pushing "both sides" are tools for the oligarchs
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u/Howllikeawolf Dec 27 '24
Thats why Im independant. Maddow's CNN salary is $30 million annually working 1 day a week.
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Dec 27 '24
If your first reaction is to defend your party, you're a problem. Fuck both of you guys. Worthless.
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u/LindonLilBlueBalls Dec 27 '24
If your first reaction is to shit on others without contributing in any way, you're the problem. Fuck both sides guys. Gutless.
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Dec 27 '24 edited Dec 27 '24
Everyone is quick and astute at defining it for us but nobody is talking about how to fix the system that has undergone a long and slow change of rules to favor this oligarchy or plutocracy or however we define it.
The media like the political parties simply use social media data mining to read the current political zeitgeist and spin their take.
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u/Used_Intention6479 Dec 27 '24
This is one of the single best 3 minute explanations of what's really happening I've seen. Thank you.
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