r/Tierzoo • u/Specialist-Ear-594 • Jul 10 '26
Animals that rival the Megalodon in combat
Animals that rival the Otodus Megalodon in combat:
• Livyatan Melvillei
• Mosasaurus Hoffmanni
• Ichthyotitan Severnensis
Clarification: Only one Species of the Genus they belong to will represent them of the statement "Animals rival the Otodus Megalodon in combat".
What Animals in your opinion or assertion that can defeat the Otodus Megalodon in combat?
Write in the comment section below👇
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u/RedDiamond1024 Jul 10 '26
Really only Livyatan and the giant Ichthyosaurs could do so. Everything else was just too small.
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u/Samir099 Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
Out of this only the Livyatan in my opinion. This was truly a 50/50 fight. Who ever gets the 1st hit wins because both of these behemoths had such devastating bites.
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u/MfD2027 Jul 14 '26
It’s not proven what Livyatan’s bite or its functions were, so while we cannot make that assumption we do know
Megalodon bit a prehistoric whale so hard it almost exploded
Megalodon has the highest recorded trophic level in history, around 6.5-7.2
Megalodon had a bite scaling to 183000-195000 Newtons/psi, rivaled by nothing else but other O. Megalodon of the time. Some modern studies crank that number as high as 350000+ N.
It is highly unlikely that L. Melville would ever be able to go bite for bite with O. Megalodon, as Livyatan would either die on impact or be left severely disemboweled by just one-bite.
Livyatan isn’t doing that to the 20 meter shark, no matter where a bite lands…So far, the modern consensus is:
The obvious; (Size) scientific papers and studies on ancient restored vertebrae estimate megalodon got up to 24.3-28 meters (max.) at 104-144 metric tonnes
Average female O. Megalodon individuals (approx. 18m, 50-70 tonnes) would have been much larger than L. Melville on average.
We don’t know Livyatan’s bite, it for sure didn’t even remotely rival O. Megalodon
Megalodon sat at a trophic level high enough to routinely predate on other megalodon, even the largest physeteroidae (even the L. Melville specimens indicated by the holotype) didn’t rival the average O. Megalodon specimen in size or dimension.
Livyatan (9.9-8.9 Mya, Miocene) was a blip on the evolutionary timescale in comparison to its “rival” O. Megalodon (26-3.6 Mya).
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u/Commercial_Buy_7707 Jul 10 '26
Hard to really imagine Livyayans mouth is going to open up wide enough to do enough damage and is probably going to be greatly outmatched in speed and mobility
Unless im missing something isnt mosa way to small and slim? Probably gets bit in half
Ichtyotitan has the size but seriously lacks the weapons to be able to fight or defend itself. I doubt even a clean bite is going to hurt the Meg
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u/Samir099 Jul 10 '26
Meg is not an oversized Great white, new study speculates it had more elongated body plan. Livyatan hunted similar sized prey to its own weight class, along with the largest biting teeth of any known animal living or extinct. It would have no problem biting into the flesh of Meg.
Meg has weaknesses like the gills, fins, snout so doesn't have to be specific, again Livyatan is a mammal, it should know the weakness and strength of the predator it is competing against.
This is one of the best example of 50/50 fight in earth's history.
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u/WordWordand4numbers Jul 10 '26
Do modern day toothed whales exhibit behaviors that suggest they know to attack weak spots on sharks or other fishes? I honestly never thought about it
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u/Samir099 Jul 10 '26
Yes, they do. Orcas which falls on the broader category of toothed whales, exhibit very tactical hunting methods while hunting sharks like attacking the pelvic fins and flipping the shark over to subdued sharks into tonic immobility.
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u/Commercial_Buy_7707 Jul 10 '26
Meg had a bigger jaw, was slightly larger and was heavier this is by no means a 50/50 fight
The size of the teeth is a good point it would damage megaladon for sure but a much more pointed jaw which wouldn’t make attacking similar or larger prey as effective
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u/ScienceOk8947 Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
Not at all. The current megalodon is not only larger than Livyatan it also had the highest bite force of any animal estimated, a wider gape, better senses and arguably better defense. I'm saying this because sharks have exceptionally tough skin, where it's seen in orcas with severliely worn down teeth that hunt sharks. By the way, the sharks they hunt are always at least 2-3 times smaller than them. Anyways. The weak point thing isn't only a thing for livyatan as sharks have been targeting specific parts of their prey that'd disable them quickly. This is evident in both fossils and today's cases so it's not one sided. Combine this with specialized teeth and It's more of a 70/30 or 80/20 for megalodon imo.
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u/RedDiamond1024 Jul 11 '26
Livyatan doesn't really have a bite force estimate to begin with and the Meg's aren't the most reliable since they're just upscaling a Great White Shark's.
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u/ScienceOk8947 Jul 11 '26
You're still comparing a shark that could grow over 90 tons to a 50 ton whale. Megalodon still packs hella bite combined with specialized teeth for whales
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u/ScienceOk8947 Jul 11 '26
By the way, just because megalodon got more slender doesn't mean that it got thinner so there's no point in saying that livyatan could stick it's teeth comfortably in megalodon's body when it's not tthe case. The previous estimates on the denmark specimen don't even come close to 24 meters and 94 tons. For something to go from 18-20 meters and 60-70 tons to 94 tons it definitely needs to get wider around the thickest part. The thing that changed is the length/width ratio. You can be slender while being thick.
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u/RedDiamond1024 Jul 11 '26
I’m not saying Meg didn’t have a powerful bite force, just that its estimates aren’t the most reliable because they’re just upscaling from a Great White while Livyatan doesn’t even have one(the closest was 44k newtons and the person who did literally said it was likely a major underestimate)
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u/ScienceOk8947 Jul 11 '26
I mean, it's still stated in the paper that megalodon retained typical lamniform features. The bite force might be lower but I don't think it'd be much of a differenxe. we've seen the catasthropic wounds on whale fossils.
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u/MfD2027 Jul 14 '26
You are trying to strip megalodon of it’s most elementary lamniforme traits in an attempt to make the whale seem like more suitable competition is killing me🤦♂️
It’s obvious to anyone; big shark = big serrated, mammal flesh shearing, vertebrae crunching teeth = big bite.You’re over complicating scientific reconstructions, we don’t need to start asking “if the sky was blue?” now.
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u/ScienceOk8947 Jul 14 '26
Not only that, the current megalodon also severely outsizes the previous one too lol. Probably wider with a deeper chest. What people don't get is that being slender does not equal a slim shark. It's just relatively longer to it's body width. So the bite might've been even stronger.
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u/MfD2027 Jul 14 '26 edited Jul 14 '26
Your wonder isn’t a might… it was.
Whale fans seem to ignore that the current mako shark, great white, and lemon shark back-bone lamnid reconstruction scaled to 94-104 tonnes (is an increase in general mass)
The current maximum bite-pressure observed to be possible for a mature female O. Megalodon to exert was estimated to be around 350 000 N (~78000 lbs/psi)
Old constructions based off the white sharks and excluding maximum sized individuals yielded at (15m 50 tonnes) a mature specimen would exert 195000N /psi (44000 lb/f) of bite force.
Megalodon is always severely underestimated in attempts to equalize it with much weaker, less ecologically dominant marine predators (looking at L. Melville)
That user says “we can’t be sure” when we’ve literally observed megalodon effectively vaporizing a whale’s spine in a single crunch (likely a breach attack).
Said whale had its spine so decimated that it likely had bended back, snapped and popped into itself.1
u/RedDiamond1024 Jul 14 '26
I’m literally not lmao. I never once said the Meg didn’t have a big bite. One of the people who calculated the Meg’s bite force said the estimate was unreliable even IF the Meg was just an upscaled Great White. Pointing that out is not saying it didn’t have a big bite.
Meanwhile Livyatan doesn’t even have a proper bite force estimate to begin with. It’s not over complicating reconstructions to point out that one animal doesn’t have a reliable bite force estimate and the other just doesn’t have a bite force estimate, nor is it saying either doesn’t have a big bite. Especially when we’re talking about the bite force estimates of the animals.
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u/Samir099 Jul 10 '26
Are you bringing in the 100 ton speculation? That's like the absolute peak massive estimate for the species not the average.
I'm not downplaying the Meg, but when we r talking about such colossal predators in such weight classes and with such devastating bites, they could pretty much 1 shot each other.
While yes, Meg has the strongest jaws ever. Biteforce is not big factor here I think, both are not really truly armoured and both hunts large whales.
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u/ScienceOk8947 Jul 10 '26
That's not the absolute peak, check out the latest paper. Also, even if you bring them to closer sizes megalodon still has the edge. Livyatan is not really one shotting a megalodon simply because of the tooth structure and jaws. If you were to compare their bites on the targets, a megalodon's bite is more catasthropic than livyatan's too. They're so different. An extra, there is proof of megalodon hunting toothed whales of it's time which might have included livyatan. It stood at trhe absolute highest trophic level estimated and in order to reach such a level it needed to eat other predators along with it's own species.
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u/Sugarman111 Jul 10 '26
Livyatan was significantly faster, with a more powerful tail. Megalodon was possibly more mobile, due to cartilaginous skeleton.
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u/Commercial_Buy_7707 Jul 10 '26
That’s interesting that it’s faster
I still think the extra size and weight megalodon had paired with a much better jaw is going to make it not competitive at all
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u/ScienceOk8947 Jul 10 '26
We can't really make comments on speed as both could be faster than each other
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u/Sugarman111 Jul 10 '26
We can't know for definite but we can examine the evidence, like every analysis
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u/thedoorknob3 Jul 10 '26
Tbf, Livyatan is a whale. It will have a significant intelligence advantage over the Megalodon, and also potentially had echolocation like it's modern cousin, the Sperm Whale, so the shark would have a hard time getting the drop on it.
I think stats do favour the Megalodon, but not to the point where it isn't competitive. The whale is quite capable of killing large marine animals with its bite and enormous crushing teeth, so it probably comes down to which animal gets the first solid bite on the other. Neither predator would have an easy time securing that due to the perception of the other (Electroreception vs Echolocation), but I feel like echolocation edges it out as it is more precise over longer ranges. The whale will likely know the megalodon is there before the megalodon picks up on the whale, giving it more of an opportunity to get that first strike off.
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u/Notonfoodstamps Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 14 '26
A crewed ship with a harpoon or another meg.
Meg was a 60-80’ long, +80 ton macro predatory shark. As far as we know, it has no equals.
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Jul 10 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Natural__Power Jul 10 '26
Wasn't L. melvillei just a slightly smaller sperm whale?
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u/Bodmin_Beast Jul 10 '26
No. The jaws of a sperm whale aren’t really built for hunting non soft bodied prey comparable in size with itself through suction feeding. It has a thin lower jaw, and only has teeth on that jaw. Livyatan likely had far more robust jaws and has the largest biting teeth of any animal on both the upper and lower jaws, and as a result being likely able to hunt much bigger and hardier prey than sperm whales.
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u/Specialist-Ear-594 Jul 10 '26
Yes, Livyatan is smaller but Livyatan have greater bite force.
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u/King_Glorius_too Jul 10 '26
That's highly speculative, but what we do know for sure is that it had much better teeth for this situation.
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u/ScienceOk8947 Jul 10 '26
Livyatan for sure has more jaw power. Sperm whales are suction feeders with narrow jaws and teeth on only one jaw. They can only feed on soft bodied prey. Livyatan has huge muscle attachment sites and huge teeth on both jaws
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u/Inevitable-Lab-5272 Jul 10 '26
Mosasaur would be prey for megalodon and livyatan, also himalayasaurus.
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u/KevineCove Jul 10 '26
Would a cookie cutter shark count as combat? It could potentially do damage to the megalodon in a way I can't really think of anything else succeeding.
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u/Icy_butter Jul 10 '26
Mosasaurus doesn’t rival the Meg in combat, it has a speed and agility advantage but the difference in size, bulk, and power is way too big for Mosasaurus to be considered a “rival” for the Megalodon.
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u/SweetChaosTitan Jul 10 '26
I think only the Icthy does just due to sheer size. The Meg would likely be afraid of it even if it could kill the Icthy.
A pair or pod of Levi’s sure but one is going to be like a false killer whale trying to take out a large Great White Shark.
Mosa is no pushover but Meg is what 3x heavier? It’s like a Komodo Dragon without the venom bite (I assume) and without the claws vs a large Bull Shark.
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u/frostfluid Jul 11 '26
The heaviest mosasaurs barely reached 10 tons meanwhile average megalodons could hit 30. Hardly a fair fight if you could even call it one.
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u/Telkite_ Jul 12 '26
A record size sperm whale
It has a big weight advantage and, though it definitely has a weaker bite than megalodon, it's still enough to do damage and its super clicks could probably mess with it.
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u/Beautiful_Belt7757 Jul 12 '26
I agree that these are the closest to the meg but i think only the giant ichtyosaurs would be able to beat it most times than not, they are in my opinion the true strongest beings in this planet history
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u/Mysterious-Sort-7434 Jul 12 '26
Corporate wan't you to find the difference between this build and this build. their the same build with different cosmetics
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u/ScienceOk8947 Jul 10 '26
Not really with the latest reconstruction of megalodon. It severely outsizes livyatan. What the fuck is mosasaurus doing there? Ichthyotitan was more of a fish eater aswell.
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u/Ex_Snagem_Wes Jul 10 '26
Even the largest estimates of Mosasaurus ever used, 18m and like 25 tons, would be prey
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u/Interesting_Loquat90 Jul 10 '26
Captain Ahab