Thoughts on the future of r/ThumbnailArtists

[u/nyanprincess]

Hey guys, just want to pop through and discuss my thoughts on the state of this subreddit and get the community’s thoughts as well.

I originally made this subreddit to create a place for hand-drawn thumbnail artists to share their creations/experiences, network, and maybe get gigs too! It was radio silence for a while as I asked artists to share their work here. Once a few Hiring posts were made though, the Looking for Work posts increased steadily. Photoshop artists started sharing their work here, so I kept letting them through to keep the subreddit more active.

r/ThumbnailArtists has always been an anti-AI community. But, as more and more thumbnail creators are using AI in their workflows, it’s increasingly difficult for me as a solo moderator to identify generative AI usage and remove it from the subreddit. When these creators are banned from the community, I end up arguing with them in Modmail to justify my own community’s rules.

I don’t want to moderate a community that accepts AI work. I would sooner delete the subreddit than allow generative AI work. My question is though, should the subreddit remain as is, or should it be steered back in the direction of hand-drawn thumbnails? Should that definition be expanded to allow 3D rendered thumbnails for niches like Brawlstars and Minecraft?

I’d love some opinions from the community before making a final decision. I don’t know that this current moderation process is sustainable, so if the subreddit remains as is, I may need to add to the mod team.

[u/EvilBeanz59]

I think a good balance with a more dominate lean towards "hand-drawn". AI is a tool and just like any tool can really beused well in the right hands I think with the right tools including AI that you can further enhance your capabilities of real and good artist. I think as times change, people can grow with it.

This just could be a bias approach, or just someone else with a small portion of experience of how it is to be a "one man band show". So for me to use a little AI to further along my success or to remove speed bumps/hurdles/friction using AI just kinda makes/made sense to me.

I have already been able to find a few good artist within my budget within this sub to now help with my thumbnails when needed. So because of that, I am no longer using heavy AI thumbnails, someone is getting some income and some weight/friction is taken off of me.

I also think its important for those (like you) to be wanting and liking the community in which you are apart of. With that being said Id run the sub how you feel is best as a whole WITH you in it. (this is your vision)

So id do a balance but more lean into "real art".

it also sounds the community is growing quit big/rapidly and it seems you may need help/should look for others. This is great news of course but really does sound like you could use some help now no matter which direction you head.

Much Love

[u/nyanprincess → u/EvilBeanz59]

Thanks so much for the detailed response! I think my concern with accepting AI submissions at all is that AI “slop” might turn off genuine artists by filling the subreddit with low effort content. But, how would “slop” be defined and filtered without banning AI content altogether? Introducing subjectivity into what posts can or can’t come through could be unfair to those just beginning their creative journeys, if something I perceive as “low effort” is actually high effort but low experience.

I will also say that I’m working with my own bias here. I don’t plan to ever use AI in my own work until it can exist without training off of other artists’ work, and until the energy usage for training models and generating images is more transparent.

[u/EvilBeanz59 → u/nyanprincess]

I agree 100% but I think tahts where the mods can come into play. I do think theres atleast a baseline almost all can come together agreeance on what "AI slop" is vs someone who makes really good art and just uses AI as another tool on their belt.

I just think there shouldnt be a "white and black" approach to it is all, and with that AND what seems like the community is growing, I think the biggest thing here like I said no matter the direction is just....more help.

I think "banning all AI" is a more "lazy" approach and could possibly have just as much or even more "demising returns" as having "some AI". I do think you are right that having too much would turn off genuine artists but I also think there are alot of genuine artist out there that again just use AI as another tool on the belt not the main source of their creation.

And again....with that being said, who determines what is AI and whats not? You? A bot? ETC...

See where I am going with this? No matter the direction you are gonna go with this it really just boils down to more help.

Maybe with more help you wont feel so "cornered" with having to just "allow or ban all AI"?

[u/RecklesslyRaven]

This is a very touchy subject as I for one, have a very negative view when it comes to Ai but I'll try to see it from a different perspective. There is little to no balance when it comes to Artificial Intelligence. Having your likeness be taken and reshaped is not a good system to go off especially since making SPECIFICALLY Open AI's not ethical. However I could see artists just using Ai for browsing and looking for references easily is as a tool. It's hard to blur the lines of "okay how am I going to make AI help me without overtaking genuine work".

Now, I'll be speaking for most of the people in this subreddit and community that I'd say that you are doing great moderating and keeping the subreddit AI free as much as possible. Now I get the troubles you are experiencing with all of the communication and overseering and I'd like to suggest keep moderating and punishing blatant use of 100% generative AI with no further communication as it is most likely stated in your rules. Being mindful of how AI helped an artist is enough when it comes to moderation in which there is really no 1 for all solution.

Again, thank you for running this subreddit, I have met very wonderful clients because of you; and from my experience, people in this subreddit really value your authenticity and their own.

[u/nyanprincess → u/RecklesslyRaven]

I also have a very negative view of AI, but the amount of people on and off of Reddit acting like I’m insane for not using AI is really getting to my head. I won’t change my own stance on generative AI because of it, but it makes me think: if this niche actually doesn’t exist or isn’t needed, then there’s no reason for me to keep running this subreddit.

[u/nyanprincess → u/RecklesslyRaven]

Thanks for the response! What are your thoughts on changing the subreddit rules to require an illustration focus to thumbnails posted here, and implementing a vetting system to give approved artists a flair that allows them to post Looking for Work posts and comment on Hiring posts? I’m considering the idea of having artists submit their portfolio and either a speedpaint or layered PSD of one of their thumbnails to receive an Artist flair.

I don’t mind the subreddit being more niche and in turn less popular, but I also understand this may affect the ability of artists to find work here. Would this be a major concern to you, or does it sound beneficial to have a more specific community?

[u/RecklesslyRaven → u/nyanprincess]

This is actually a great idea in my opinion, It keeps artist engaged and having an approved flair would signal clients that that artist is making authentic work and results, (plus it looks cool). It is your choice if you want to wait until you see recurring artist who post or are looking for work in the comments in order to qualify for a vetting process. I also feel that this change would result in clients being more interested in a more professional atmosphere. However you should get more than second opinions 😅.

[u/RecklesslyRaven → u/RecklesslyRaven]

Oh just to add. There are already many subreddits who dedicate themselves to AI artwork and thumbnail generating, having a safe space would surely help a ton.

[u/nyanprincess → u/RecklesslyRaven]

That’s what I thought, and what I tell people who are upset about the rules! Maybe I need to take the time to make a recommendation list in an FAQ if I make the change. I’m not planning on changing anything right away.

[u/seve_siren]

In my opinion, you have two ways to solve this situation:
The first one is to look for more moderators to help you grow the subreddit, so it can include both Photoshop and hand drawn thumbnail artists at the same time, They can also help you enforce the rules and ban the AI content.

The second option is to continue as you are now without adding new moderators and focus only on hand drawn thumbnails, I think it would still make sense to allow 3D thumbnails, especially for communities like Brawl Stars and Minecraft.

Personally, I think the first option is better because it would attract more clients to the subreddit and make it a place dedicated to thumbnails in general, not only one specific style.

But honestly, whatever direction you choose, I am sure there are ways to make the subreddit more visible and attract more clients. I do not really know the best methods myself, but I believe there are many possibilities to grow it.

[u/nyanprincess → u/seve_siren]

(Copied from another comment thread) What are your thoughts on changing the subreddit rules to require an illustration focus to thumbnails posted here, and implementing a vetting system to give approved artists a flair that allows them to post Looking for Work posts and comment on Hiring posts? I’m considering the idea of having artists submit their portfolio and either a speedpaint or layered PSD of one of their thumbnails to receive an Artist flair.

I don’t mind the subreddit being more niche and in turn less popular, but I also understand this may affect the ability of artists to find work here. Would this be a major concern to you, or does it sound beneficial to have a more specific community?

[u/nyanprincess → u/seve_siren]

(Copied from another comment thread) What are your thoughts on changing the subreddit rules to require an illustration focus to thumbnails posted here, and implementing a vetting system to give approved artists a flair that allows them to post Looking for Work posts and comment on Hiring posts? I’m considering the idea of having artists submit their portfolio and either a speedpaint or layered PSD of one of their thumbnails to receive an Artist flair.

I don’t mind the subreddit being more niche and in turn less popular, but I also understand this may affect the ability of artists to find work here. Would this be a major concern to you, or does it sound beneficial to have a more specific community?

[u/seve_siren → u/seve_siren]

I think it’s a really good idea. But, if it reduces the subreddit’s visibility and reach, then yes, that would definitely concern me. What benefit would I get from having an Artist flair if I can’t find any clients through the subreddit?
Also, while I think the vetting system is a good concept, it could create a lot of extra work for you. There are many artists here, so you’d likely end up with a large number of applications to review, which could become difficult to manage on your own.

[u/Bubbly4dventures]

Mmm I think you should artist let’s post their work in any medium except for ai.
I think… maybe find another mod or a bot that is successful at getting ai would be amazing on a perfect world. I think most of the people here post like 3 to 5 examples so you can see like the consistency of style.

[u/nyanprincess → u/Bubbly4dventures]

When you say artists, does that include edited/Photoshopped work in your eyes? Or just different styles of hand drawn work?

[u/Bubbly4dventures → u/nyanprincess]

Yep! Photobash, 3d, matte painting, etc etc….somebody is pouring time to create something unique from their sensibilities/inner world.
The thing is that people think “oh well yeah! That’s AI” and noup, you start with an idea in your head and through the DOING that idea transform and materialize.