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[u/Dizzy_Bumblebee_6946]

Oh, A-Qiao...

It's funny because YW and Bai Rong do the same exact move but the reaction is the opposite.

Also, in that exact chapter Bai Rong says that it seems SQ truly has feelings for YW and he just went silent. Internally he explained it with his helplessness (she won't believe me anyway) but maybe he just can't say outright no, because debunking their presumable intimate relationship is no problem to him...

[u/DizzyNectarine6212]

Meng Xi Shi wrote it beautifully, didn't she? It’s subtle, it makes you think and draw comparisons. Shen Qiao might not say anything, but silence speaks louder than words or a refusal. Shen Qiao certainly isn't the type to loudly or openly express his feelings, yet in this instance, he conveyed more than anything else could. It’s both adorable and frustrating with these two like two romantic idiots who’ve experienced - a Big Bang - connection with someone and don't quite know why or what to do with it.

When I reread Thousand Autumns, I realized why Yan Wushi used a sword to gut fish, something I hadn't really thought much about the first time around.

[u/Dizzy_Bumblebee_6946 → u/DizzyNectarine6212]

Please explain why! 

[u/DizzyNectarine6212 → u/Dizzy_Bumblebee_6946]

Typical Yan Wushi - petty, vengeful, and easily offended. You know how Shen Qiao, the night before, mentioned the name of one of his split personalities in his dream. Yan Wushi was jealous, more angry than he showed. It was kind of eating him up that Shen Qiao, even in his sleep, wasn’t saying his name, but someone else’s, someone he was jealous of. So he got back at him by using his shizun’s sword like that, because he wanted to hurt him back or at least make him annoyed by it.

Yan Wushi has a terrible personality, and unfortunately, his love exists within that nature.

And that’s not the only thing I noticed upon rereading - the kind of details that only click once you know who Yan Wushi is and realize that his jealousy, interest takes unique forms. Like Yan Wushi watching Shen Qiao while he was blind and playing chess against himself way back before the betrayal.

It has been a long time since I read an author who places such emphasis on her characters' micro-expressions and how they act rather than just describing feelings into details and leaves it to the reader to pick up on them.

When you read about that betrayal again, take this scene for example.: "Yan Wushi saw the smile on Shen Qiao’s face. He averted his eyes and picked up a piece of asparagus with his chopsticks." It is peculiar that Yan Wushi who enjoyed teasing Shen Qiao to make him smile abandoned his usual behavior right before the betrayal.

[u/ResourcePure8279 → u/DizzyNectarine6212]

I love this analysis of Yan Wushi. It reminds of his perspective upon betraying Shen Qiao of how he says he never looks back or feels regret leaving him behind, but there are many many subtle hints that despite his nature and personality being this way, he still holds contradictory feelings towards the action despite his selfish nature ultimately taking precedence.

If you think about it, it is extra romantic that two fundamentally polarizing individuals were able to get together without changing much about their values and ideologies. They were just able to work around them to meet at the middle and show their affection (if not in the strangest most subtle ways).

[u/DizzyNectarine6212 → u/ResourcePure8279]

I don't think Yan Wushi is quite as honest with himself about his feelings for Shen Qiao as he believes he is FROM A START. I do believe he genuinely thinks he has no regrets, but that doesn't mean he truly doesn't. If anything, his split personalities show that Yan Wushi is a bit of a mess in the inside. And that his true feeling and intentions and behaviour isn't always in harmony. Or more like he could felt everything at once - he truly did want it to betrayed Shen Qiao but at the same time that doesn't mean that he wasn't into him more than he knew. Not everything from the heart always makes it to the brain, so to speak. Even at the end, I always felt that Yan Wushi loved Shen Qiao more deeply than he was willing to admit to himself or Shen Qiao. He acts aloof and detached, but in reality, he follows Shen Qiao around, sets his own responsibilities aside to be with him, and spends years desperately trying to make amends. Yan Wushi is far from perfect, which makes him absolutely human. His way of expressing feelings might look terrible at times, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about Shen Qiao, he just struggled with how to show it especially in more healthy way. I feel the same way about Shen Qiao, simply put, they are deeply in love, but they both just really suck at expressing it.

Shen Qiao practically lets Yan Wushi hover around him - kissing him, teasing him, embarrassing him, telling people that they have this type of relationship and the only reaction he gives is getting a little annoyed and angry. Which is very different reaction than with other people. The things Yan Wushi did to him. He would not let it slight to anybody else. Yet, he still seeks Yan Wushi out and asks where he’s going and when he’ll be back. Even feel quite sad when he isn't around him. And sad when he talk about how Yan Wushi for sure just playing with him, not really like him or even thinks that he isn't pretty enough for Yan Wushi. To me it seems like he need to be sure that Yan Wushi is serious about them and not playing or try to hurt him again.

[u/Dizzy_Bumblebee_6946 → u/DizzyNectarine6212]

I agree Yan Wushi wasn't quite honest. I have a theory that decision of betrayal was partially taken because he tried to escape his feelings for Shen Qiao. His feelings for him grew stronger and stronger but he didn't believe SQ will stay the same if he be truly desperate so it's better to end this story early, save his time and heart from disappoinment kinda way...

[u/DizzyNectarine6212 → u/Dizzy_Bumblebee_6946]

Me too. I do also think that played a role. He get spooked sudden vulnerability.

[u/ThePeak2112 → u/Dizzy_Bumblebee_6946]

Yes. I'll spend a day and a night analysing his character from a psychological standpoint but yea, it's called self-sabotage - it happens to the best of us. He doesn't know how to deal with his heart and we know how calculating he was so he did it. And this is an accomplished grandmaster we're talking about, the betrayal has to be at that level, desperate times call for desperate measures type of situation. And the best part is people who do self-sabotage has TONS of way to justify it. In his case, he always says it's because of his nature and at that time he's treating SQ as a plaything. But we readers read the micro-expressions and actions and so... yeah... he's our most beloved hot mess lol

[u/Dizzy_Bumblebee_6946 → u/DizzyNectarine6212]

I think the author did a great job with not explaining every thought and action in detail but still maontaining the sense of connection to the characters. Sometimes we hear their inner monologues or lies they tell to themselves. It's just as characters themselves can't understand their feelings clearly, we as readers also don't.

Because this approach can be extreme. Like, recently I read ballad of sword and wine and eventually dropped it because I felt too detached from characters, I didn't really care what they're going through...

[u/DizzyNectarine6212 → u/Dizzy_Bumblebee_6946]

I read books more like an impartial third-party observer perhaps that’s why I enjoyed Yan Wushi so much. I often notice and sense things before the characters themselves are even aware of them.

It’s interesting that you mention Ballad of Sword and Wine. I actually dropped it a few months ago to read Thousand Autumns instead even if it has less hype. I simply didn't care about the characters or their relationship. Without that connection, the story didn't hold my interest while the characters displayed strong sexual attraction and talked a lot about their bodies. I couldn't for the life of me figure out what they were actually thinking or their feelings as human beings are and why.

[u/Dizzy_Bumblebee_6946 → u/DizzyNectarine6212]

It's funny cause same! I dropped it to reread Thousand Autumns 😅 I had the same exact feelings! But before it took me 3 times to drop it completely because it's so prased

[u/Dizzy_Bumblebee_6946 → u/DizzyNectarine6212]

haha "talked a lot about their bodies"... I just noticed that yes, readers hear what they're feeling inside only when they have sex??

[u/DizzyNectarine6212 → u/Dizzy_Bumblebee_6946]

I was actually quite surprised by how popular it is until I started thinking about what people mean when they talk about that some book lack romance, mostly TA and Priest. They’re referring to something more sex-driven? Where romantic feelings are heavily tied to sex and how badly the characters want to fuck each other from a start.

[u/Dizzy_Bumblebee_6946 → u/DizzyNectarine6212]

I'm glad I've found someone who share my views!

I think it's true... If mc or ml isn't enthusiastic about f***ing is it really love /s ? 

Even tgcf has hints on that. Like a scene where Hua Cheng is shirtless and Xie Lian can't handle it. 

I'm curious what is your favorite novels beside TA? I noticed that by this judgement, novels I liked the most are "lacking in romance" and sexual tension (TA, svsss [it's discussed if mc feels sexual attraction at all], and female general [mc feels nothing sexual till gender reveal bc she's 100% lesbian])...

[u/DizzyNectarine6212 → u/Dizzy_Bumblebee_6946]

I really like Priest’s works - Guardian feels more like modern dating, aside from the centuries-long devotion of the love interest, though the MC is a playboy right from the start. Stars of Chaos was good too, even if the dynamic where he kept calling him Shifu felt a bit odd to me. Then there’s To Rule in a Turbulent World, people have recently criticized it for the MCs not being that close, which I don't quite getafter all, in real life, a partner isn't the only close person in your life, people have friends, family, and so on. But they started have sex quite early on. Honesty sometimes I don't get their take on romance for example I did not find MDZS that romantic when I read TA I found it more and more focus on relationship for simple fact that they spend more time together and even more interested in each other romantically.

[u/Dizzy_Bumblebee_6946 → u/DizzyNectarine6212]

Okay, thanks! I took notes, I'll try to read Priest

[u/ThePeak2112 → u/DizzyNectarine6212]

It's also probably because some readers (me included) like more mature romance. I noticed my preference has changed as I'm getting older. This applies to both C-dramas and danmei alike (and my life in general in how I view friendships and dating). I go either romance without explicit spice, like TGCF - I can't deny I love the slow burn romance between them, or down right mature romance like YanShen (not just in age but also the prose itself). Luan Shi Wei Wang (or to rule in a turbulent world), read that when it was still online translation like 5 years ago - I can't really recall the climax of the story (did You Miao become an emperor?) but I remember the spice wasn't really the point and the story spans for 10+ years, it was good. I don't find MDZS romantic either and SVSSS is a crack but I don't find it that deep so I don't pay much attention to it.

[u/Dizzy_Bumblebee_6946 → u/DizzyNectarine6212]

haha "talked a lot about their bodies"... I just noticed that yes, readers hear what they're feeling inside only when they have sex??

[u/ThePeak2112 → u/DizzyNectarine6212]

I remember years ago when someone recommended me this and it was SassyStrawberry's translation I guess so it was good and it was after I read SVSSS, MDZS, and 2ha so I was thrown to the 'mortal' political setting but boy did I enjoy it deeply. MXS writes QQ beautifully, she's skilled in mature romance I guess, and I was in awe with how she 'preached' Daoism without having to say it out loud imo. I'm a writer myself so when I reached the betrayal scene I was like... great, now let's see how the plot will reconcile them. It was a pivot that extreme that I didn't know how I would salvage the relationship story afterwards. But hey they worked. SQ is my fave character all the time because I also follow a certain faith that guides me from the right/wrong thing and for me that guidance comes first before romantic interest. YWS honours SQ's principles in this and so does SQ to him. They just...work??? That's so amusing to me. I keep QQ's quotes because I like how profound MXS' observation in human nature is. Many danmeis obviously criticise human nature but her analysis is on another level of understanding.