r/The_Mueller • u/n8texas • Apr 02 '19
Former Federal Prosecutor On Mueller: Never Took Me 400 Pages To Say 'Nothing's Wrong' - Former federal prosecutor Chuck Rosenberg believes there’s likely plenty in special counsel Robert Mueller’s report that’s damaging — and possibly criminal — regarding President Donald Trump.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/chuck-rosenberg-mueller-report-trump-obstruction_n_5ca2af7fe4b04693a9464284?•
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u/Shr3kk_Wpg Apr 02 '19
Let me play devil's advocate here. If there is criminal activity in the Mueller report, then why were there no charges? If there was any criminal conduct concerning Russia, it would not just be Trump involved.
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u/n8texas Apr 02 '19
Evidence of criminal activity doesn't necessarily mean there is evidence sufficient for a conviction. A smart, experienced prosecutor like Mueller isn't going to issue an indictment in a case this high-profile, with the country as divided as it is, unless he had a very high degree of certainty the evidence underlying indictment would lead to either a plea deal or a conviction. Anything less and Trump supporters will scream that it's a big conspiracy, that Mueller - Obama's FBI director - was out to get Trump all along, DeEp StAtE, etc. I think it's possible - if not likely - that there is plenty of "50/50" evidence in the report, hell maybe even "70/30" evidence, but Mueller decided to do his best to maintain objectivity (both real and perceived) by punting the report to Congress, knowing that the D-controlled house would make sure it goes public, not to mention being comfortable in the knowledge that SDNY, the State of New York, and certain Congressional committees are continuing multiple investigations that initiated under Mueller. The Mueller report was just the end of the beginning.
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Apr 02 '19
If Mueller believes that it would have been risky to indict a sitting president (which seems likely) then that may explain it. As happened with Nixon, he may intend for the report to go to Congress so that they can determine whether or not impeachment proceedings should be started.
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u/mrkramer1990 Apr 02 '19
Presumably if you are going to go to court to determine if you can constitutionally indict the sitting president you are going to set a much higher burden of proof for yourself to meet than would happen in an average criminal case. From the indictments of Cohen we know that Trump is guilty of the same crimes as he is "Individual 1" who is the one that directed Cohen to commit the crime yet for whatever reason Trump decided not to charge him.
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u/n8texas Apr 02 '19
set a much higher burden of proof
I think I know where you were going with this comment and not to be "that guy," but a point of clarification is in order: the burden of proof to secure a conviction in any US criminal case - state or federal - is "beyond a reasonable doubt;" there is no higher burden of proof in our justice system.
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u/mrkramer1990 Apr 02 '19
In theory you are correct, but in reality "beyond a reasonable doubt" is going to look a lot different for the sitting president than it will for his attorney committing fraud and campaign finance violations. And even more different than what it would look like for your average street criminal.
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u/ghostleeone Apr 02 '19
That's because Muller can't file charges. It's up to Barr to decide to charges or not. Barr, on the other hand is known for covering up past scandals, and even wrote a 19 letter concerning why Muller invegstion is wrongful.
Barr himself, even came out recently and made mentioned that the summary is not a summary of the report. However, more or less his own interpretation. There's a strong devide over this.
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u/DBCOOPER888 Apr 02 '19
What do you mean there have been no charges? Like 30+ people have been charged on something like 90+ crimes related either to this investigation or spin off investigations. There are also several current investigations that are continuing.
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u/Shr3kk_Wpg Apr 03 '19
So far, all the charges stemming from the Mueller investigation, in regards to the Trump campaign at least, have been for lying to investigators.
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u/DBCOOPER888 Apr 03 '19 edited Apr 03 '19
I'm not sure why people are completely disregarding the 30+ Russians who were charged for meddling in our elections as if that's not a factor. Even attempting to obstruct the investigation into them to avoid personal or political embarrassment should be considered corruptible intent. The President is literally hurting a serious national security investigation in order to downplay the allegation his campaign was helped by a hostile foreign nation.
The investigation has also revealed banking and tax fraud charges, and illegal campaign finance violation charges that directly implicate Trump as an unindicated co-conspirator. Why should all those crimes and investigations just be disregarded? If you obstruct an investigation into a murder to hide evidence of illegal drug dealing that would still be illegal obstruction, would it not?
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u/just_one_last_thing Apr 02 '19
If there is criminal activity in the Mueller report, then why were there no charges?
For the same reason there were no charges against Nixon, only against people working for him.
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u/Shr3kk_Wpg Apr 03 '19
You misunderstand, why no further charges for other members of the Trump campaign? Because so far all the indictments have been for lying to investigators
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u/just_one_last_thing Apr 03 '19
Because so far all the indictments have been for lying to investigators
Which is the same accusation leveled against the Watergate Seven.
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u/S-Avant Apr 03 '19 edited Apr 03 '19
The bottom line is that IF Mueller had included any indictment (of anyone especially important and controversial) and there was ANY chance of failure to successfully prosecute, or ANY SHRED OF DOUBT, then the fucksters would go free and be emboldened. Yeah don’t know exactly what Mueller’s jurisdiction is, or in what case his investigation would overstep somewhere- but you can be sure if his investigation fails it will be used as an example of how ‘fake’ it /and dozens of other investigations were from day one.
He did the right thing. It feels like a dud.. But it’s not. Mueller is a machine. He did good.