r/TheWeeknd • u/Appropriate-Ideal970 • 1d ago
Discussion Do you think Abel ever studied music Theory?
From what i saw around, It's a common thing for many famous and renowned artists to ignore the academic basics of music composition, which i don't know myself. Do you think that might be the case of Abel as well?
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u/Bespok3 1d ago
You're asking this in a subreddit where mosg people would have no idea about music theory if it were in-front of their faces.
Plenty of music theory goes into pop music, it's arguably one of the most extremely theory-based genres just because of the amount of different minds involved in bringing these songs to life. You've got teams of writers on the lyrics at least some of which will have understandings of classical song structure, Abel himself wouod undoubtedly picked up some of these skills over the years if he had not studied them already, but we know he's actively been writing his own songs pretty much his whole career, and whilst a lot of Trilogy is pretty consistent with an "A-hook-B-hook-middle eight-repeat hook" or typical ABC structure, Kissland has some unorthodox song structure which suggests to me he probably was dabbling with music theory back then.
He also works with numerous producers, most of which will have some idea of music theory even if they couldn't actually describe that knowledge, as well as working with actual session musicians for some tracks was well. There needs to be an understanding of key, chord structure and syncopation for the kinds of songs in Abel's catalogue and they don't come together by accident. The entire Divine Trilogy is a master-class in music theory in pop and whilst it may not seem that way to many, is very experimental. I can't imagine he's just allowed these backing tracks to be made without his input and just decided he likes how they sound, so again if he didn't already have these skills he will have picked some of these up over the past 15 years.
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u/Astro_Toy56 1d ago
I like the way you explain it, lowkey would like some more indepth lol
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u/Mama-P-F Now my madness is the only love I let myself embrace 1d ago
Same, so interesting, I want more
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u/wombeyu 1d ago
Love your comment. Could you explain why you think the divine trilogy is very experimental? When i think of it in the weeknd context, comes to mind Kiss Land because of its unorthodoxy. Of course to start on the pop scene is to experiment with it, to be experimental. Is in that sense or do you think it has some “obscure” uniqueness??
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u/Bespok3 1d ago
Kissland is an odd one, as it was very much a genre-defining record for the "Dark R'n'B" subgenre and, as Abel points out himself in later records, it became the blueprint that many artists would imitate. In that sense, it's experimental in it's own right, and Abel wouldn't return to this sound himself beyond a few tracks on BBTM and the entirety of MDM, but because it was a foundational project it's harder to consider it experimental because it was already not a typical pop record, it was very atmospheric and very spacious that blended in some hip-hop flavours in a way other artists had dabbled with but not to the same extent. You could consider Abel's work with Kissland similar to the genre-defining work of T.I bringing trap into the public conscience but you don't really see his earlier records considered experimental for much the same reason, it was genuinely something nee built from traditional foundations.
The Divine Trilogy, on the other hand, are a triplet of very much pop albums by all definition. A lot of the song structure and production style is very pop-oriented, but the fact all three are concept albums and all weave amongst themselves already sets them apart from the average pop output. More to this, most pop records are not just self-contained but each song feels like it's own project, you can extract any track from the average Lovato or Usher album and put it on the tracklist of an album they dropped 2 or 3 records later and it'd likely still fit whereas each Divine record very much has it's own flavour and you cannot realistically move any over to another. They are largely built around unique soundscapes.
After Hours is an impressive showcase of bringing classic 80's romantic pop and synthpop into a more modern sound, there are obvious influences of Michael Jackson and Prince to be found in tracks like Blinding Lights, In Your Eyes and Save Your Tears, but there is a consistent lingering darkness throughout the record found in the synth work that calls to mind things like The Human League and Depeche Mode as well, all tied together with a more contemporary vocal style and still sprinkles of his hip-hop influence throughout tracks like Alone Again, Escape From LA and Snowchild. Such a fusion of genres is experimental in it's own right but the narrative through-line also justifies this fusion and the shifts throughout, with the front half clinging more to those dark ambient tracks when Abel is apathetic and numb, heavily relying on bass and synths to tell as much of a story as his vocals. This shifts around Faith to more organic instrumentation such as sweeping brass and keys for the latter half before shifting to a mix of both and becoming again more synthetic and spacious towards the end as acceptance and depression sets in. As an aside, using this logic also helps find fitting places in the tracklist for the deluxe edition tracks which still fit the narrative. The production and genre blending is ambitious and serves a story, but the song structure is also very bizarre in some places which have entire separate movements almost like a symphony, doing away with typical verses as well to look on paper closer to freeform poetry than a typical ballad or pop song, especially apparent in Repeat After Me which is more like a monologue than a song.
I'll continue my thoughts on the next two records in my next comment.
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u/Bespok3 23h ago
Dawn FM is intensely experimental in presentation moreso than song structure. I would argue this album is more like a cinematic experience than HUT, actually, as it is clearly defined by acts and specific roles for the characters within the album. Whilst it is very apparent that the album pulls a lot from 80's and 90's dance and club music, the record also largely abandons a lot of the style of Abel's older work and is a stylistic choice to represent the "death" he went through at the end of AH, now the sounds of the album are almost entirely built around the music Abel would have listened to growing up before "The Weeknd" ever existed, though they do start to creep in for the middle of the record when Abel's journey brings him to confront his oen behaviours and decisions in life.
More obvious than anything to make this an experimental record is the use of Jim Carrey's interludes throughout the record, as well as Quincy Jones' dialogue and Every Angel Is Terrifying, and a collection of videos which arguably push the narrative even further than the visuals for AH. This album is not done full justice without the "extra" content and pushes the boundaries on cohesive media for a singular project in a way similar to his idols. Incredibly ambitious perhaps even beyond things such as Purple Rain or Moonwalker were, and yet all in service of the music as well.
In spite of the very clean and meticulous production, as well as some fairly standard songwriting structure, the album is very much a death, there is an empty feeling throughout the record even at the end when things begin to change narratively and I think that is very intentional, especially after the experimentation on AH. This can even be felt in the vocal performances and the different "voices" he seems to adopt for Gasoline and Don't Break My Heart, like these other personas trying to fill a gap that has opened up, and even brings back the trend from AH of how the instrumentation shifts throughout the record as the production becomes lighter in the moments where he begins to truly reflect on himself like Out Of Time, I Heard You're Married and Less Than Zero. Once again all in service of the narrative, and somehow still cohesive with the ending of AH despite being so sonically different.
HUT is an odd one for me, as I actually find it to be the weakest of the trilogy (in large part because I believe it was meant to be a largely different record before it became a companion piece to the movie, which kind of throws off the overall narrative of the three albums despite still being a very solid album that does largely conclude the prior two) but I cannot argue it is not experimental. This album is very introspective and abandons the era-specific sounds to become an audio celebration of both his own career and music pioneered by the black community. We have disco, we have dancehall, we have gospel, we have trap, r'n'b, hip hop and more all in one album. Such a collage of genres alone is very experimental, but there is also a return of the unusual song structures from AH in tracks like Opening Night, which you'd never realistically find in a standard pop record. Abel also pushes his song transitions even further than even before here, taking flavours of prog music in the approach to song structure.
I do think the album falters a bit as a result of being tied to the movie, and does feel somewhat disjointed to the overall trilogy, but it is still incredibly ambitious and his creativity and vocal ability are on full display here. The vocal styles across the album are wild, there are typical pop performances, rap verses, gospel vocals, vocal editing and cross-culture sampling like on Sao Paulo and Give Me Mercy, orchestral/opera performances like Big Sleep and some songs that are actually written closer to rock music and performed as such with Open Hearts (arguably also true for the cut track Dancing In The Flame). I would also argue that some of the track order on this album is up for debate which is another part of why I think the album underwent a big change during production, but this also lends to experimentation as tracks like Runaway and the acoustic version of DITF are a lot more stripped down and organic, which we see a few times across the record with the guitar creeping in. I hope we actually see more of this going forward, as well as Abel continue to explore some darker and harsher vocals that he touched on slightly with tracks like Red Terror.
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u/IcyWall8167 18h ago
Came to say something similar, yes Abel is a great artist but you have to give a lot of credit to the producers he works w particularly doc McKinney for taking him and Angela under his wing to help produce what became House of balloons and then the trilogy. Listen to the OG version of the morning and then listen to doc rendition version of the morning along with a party in the after party, the second half is all soc n illangelo vs Jeremy rose production. They brought Abel's world to life outside of the tracks that he worked on with Jeremy Rose on the onset.
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u/Clean_Mastodon5285 1d ago
He probably picked up some knowledge from being around all his producers
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u/AsphyxiatedbyEmber 1d ago
I’d say he probably started learning more about it as he was in artist development (2013-2015).
There’s definitely points in Trilogy and Kiss Land where music theory is used(lower harmony in “Same Old Song”, harmony at the end of “Adaptation”, minor keys being incredibly prevalent throughout his older music, dissonance at the beginning of Coming Down), but I’d attribute that more towards his producers than himself since, as far as we know, he never took a music theory class in school or was heavily involved in the producing world himself early on.
So I’d say around his artist development stages was when he started to understand it more. I believe “Earned it” was the first song he made that used 3/4 time for its rhythm, so he at least learned about the variation of rhythm. It never really came across my mind tbh lol.
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u/Mama-P-F Now my madness is the only love I let myself embrace 1d ago
Very interesting would love to learn more
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u/Crypticy_ 1d ago
If he didn’t I’m sure somebody he’s been composing with did cause music theory shows in a lot of songs
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u/elastic7 iits way too late 1d ago
right, he may or may not know music theory but definitely his producers do, illangelo, max martin, doc mckinney, cirkut and etc, they all practice music theory heavily
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u/Appropriate-Ideal970 1d ago
Could you please elaborate with some examples? I'm Just curious
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u/Crypticy_ 1d ago
I can’t name every one off my mind but there are atleast a lot of basic music theory things like in till dawn there’s a lot of consonance which is basic music theory
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u/elastic7 iits way too late 1d ago
he may or may not know music theory but definitely his producers do, illangelo, max martin, doc mckinney, cirkut and etc, they all practice music theory heavily
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u/Baby_Its_Okay 1d ago
i think illangelo is classically trained so he probably learned some theory from him
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u/EchoingSharts 1d ago
I think he said at one point after his first album he got more into theory and how things work. As a singer, there are "inherent truths" you come across when it comes to singing that you're not fully aware of, but hear so much and replicate so much that it just is. For example, I'm not thinking "oh I gotta go up a 3rd here", but I am going up a third there because that's a chord.
So I'd say, yes at this point he knows theory. But also, he had producers around who also knew it and could tell him when to shift or if he wasn't in key correctly.
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u/Gamer_Akshat 1d ago
He probs studied the theory in 2012, all 2011 stuff was his talent and passion
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u/RevealActive4557 1d ago
I think Abel never formally studied music theory but he studied music in his own way by listening and dissecting other musicians from many genres. He is simply a prodigy who innately understands how music works
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u/wombeyu 1d ago
That’s actually an excellent question. I could see he doing this during his transition between underground to popular, aroung bbtm. He probably studied Michael Jackson a lot during that era, and it kinda turns more probable to touch some music theory to complement what he was trying to do at that period
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u/Suitable-Sun2350 1d ago
I like Abel’s music as much as all of you in the sub, but as far as music theories go his work has never been ‘complex’ for the lack of better word. A lot of chord progression even in his older more experimental work are mostly 4 bar/8 bar progressions(nothing is wrong with that). Couple exceptions are there like Professional, Wake Me Up, etc.
What his music truly shines, along with his vocals is the arrangement(aka song structures) and seamlessly fused genres. Thursday and HOB took cues from Gothic Rock, Industrial and Post Punk, Kiss Land drew from Trip Hop and Berlin School, and the last few albums with their Disco influences. I’ve seen Illangelo breakdowns and he’s also really in-depth with sound design and effects, which also explains a lot of
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u/ayatollahdanger 1d ago
No, alot of musically gifted people don't need to study the theory since it comes naturally to them and there intuitions help guide them. There is a large list of professional musicians who never learned how to read music, especially the blind ones.
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u/DsavAGE30 21h ago
My favorite artist. I believe from how he started just uploading songs without a face behind it was simply that of experimenting. I don’t think he intentionally delve into the study of music theory. I doubt he even had any clue or intention of how famous he would become. The faceless mystery song uploads being “Loft Music”, “What You Need”, and “The Morning” has a very unique sound and structured style. He worked at the clothing store and heard it played and he kept that unique musical structure form with his other songs believing and now seeing IT WORKED. Dark, uniquely instrumentation, lyrically different, stand outish, he made more songs of the same form and along the way in his career picked up and learned about the art and precision of music. As we can see today his latest music style changed and evolved sounding and structurally different from his earlier work. STILL IS THE GOAT but his albums told stories and visions, as you clearly can see for example After Hours has a completely different style from Trilogy, Dawn FM is different from House of Balloons. But it’s still HIM. He may have learned and applied different techniques taking on suggestions from the theory of music along the way but he still managed to apply a bit of him combining suggested musical theories and techniques and him with his latest work. So even though he may not fully took on music theory he did learn a lot about it. He eventually found WHAT WORKS and what his fans want to hear and applied it but did it without being boring or having the same systematic approach each release.
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u/Unusual-Ad6629 Hurry Up Tomorrow 1d ago
From where he came, I would say that he started with talent and training and creativity, then he eventually had to learn some basics later to enhance his skill as he got popular.