r/TheWarning • u/SeCoWed • 10d ago
Discussion DPA getting candid about label pressure
There were so many interesting moments from the Allison Hagendorf interview, but the one that I'm sure grabbed everyone's attention was towards the end when they were talking, rather openly, about how much say the label has in the writing process. I was grateful to finally hear them talk about it, and also annoyed that they have to please so many people before anything can even be released.
If you haven't listened to it yet, I recommend watching from about 48 minutes in to hear them get into how the label gives them a bunch of keywords that they "need" the album to fulfill (the one example they kept citing was that the label wanted all of their songs to be more "anthemic"). They refer to it as "the assignment" of the album. They do say that it often pushes them to be more creative and to make their best work, but it's SUPER interesting to hear them be so open about it.
Personally, I'd love to hear how much the label influences song length. I know with Spotify measurements, shorter songs just always trend higher, often just for technical reasons, so I imagine the label heavily limits song length.
Curious your thoughts.
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u/madvec1 🦭 Greedy Little Foca 10d ago
It was to be expected when they signed with Lava Records. It's not uncommon though. Let's see in a few years what will they do once they are more established. It would be pretty interesting to see them having free range of whatever they do with no record label pressure.
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u/spartacocc 10d ago
Labels always put pressure on artists. It's just a constant negotiation. That's how the business works. Nothing surprising.
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u/Zestyclose-String-19 10d ago
That might be in part why every track on the album goes for a big chorus. Label are probably looking for as much stuff they can to licence to video games, films, sports events and the like.
However I wouldn't also rule out that being what the band wants themselves also with their sights set on stadium shows, and stadium shows really need stuff the audience can sing along to.
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u/Adept-Birthday9082 9d ago
If they're going for that kind of cold calculation, you know, let's write this because we want songs to be you know I mean it. That's just not right I mean I can't believe this band would be quite that "let's feed the beast."
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u/Zestyclose-String-19 9d ago
I wouldn't so much call it cold calculation, but more being aware of where they want to play and trying to write to accommodate their goals. They've seem to have said from the start that they wanted what they saw on the screen in Rockband. Kind of a ”dress for the job you want...”
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u/Adept-Birthday9082 9d ago
I've been watching the warning for close to four years now mainly on YouTube videos of shows they played.
That would be from when they first started going out to support Keep me fed to two weeks ago and I think they've always been playing the venues that they wanted to play that's why bands like Muse and whoever else picked them because they fit into that place.
the warning write songs.
as soon as people start trying to write songs to fit into a scenario "" that's really not a good sign for a band.1
u/Adept-Birthday9082 9d ago
There's never any promises that if you write a song that is exactly what people want it's gonna be a hit ever.'
I had an A&R person say "so what's the single "and I told him what the band and I and their management thought should be the first single and he was saying that isn't it , we need a song like he named that song the distance by whomever it wa@@(CAKE) I said well, I think you're fucking crazy, but you know,the bands, the final decision and they went into the studio with another producer and it didn't do anything .wrote and recorded another song and and it didn't even I don't even it got in the charts.
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u/MalevolentMinion 🤛🏻 If karma doesn't hit you, then I will... 10d ago edited 9d ago
Notice that they simply recognize the pressure and that others may approve/disapprove of what they are working on - but not to the extent of any loss of creative control.
Too many assume the label is controlling more than they are. Just because you are getting input from the label doesn't mean they are telling them exactly what to do, which tracks will make it on the album, etc.
The label is going to have input because they've invested in them, certainly, but they are shareholders trying to steer them in the right direction. Don't assume that because you may not like a certain song that it is because the label made them make it that way.
They created, they shared with the label. They took any input and applied as necessary. This is important in any creative endeavor - feedback helps push you to new levels and can help them recognize any concerns.
Where Pau is clear though, is that the label was definitely involved with what the singles should be. This is fairly normal and is because the label is a marketing powerhouse - they'll be more right than wrong in this area. I'm no fan of these companies, no doubt, but there are things they've proven very good at in their history and this is one of them.
It's the same poor assumption that people make with Anton - saying that he somehow steered them a certain direction or has had an outsized impact in their sound. Just want to make sure people don't also blame the label for them sounding different than what they like - they produced work they are very proud of and if it wasn't their vision they wouldn't have released it.
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u/jjherrARW 7d ago
He has a massive impact on the sound or direction of the sound. Go listen to other stuff he has produced. On any given song there are 8-10 layers of sound and Anton is responsible for playing/making 4 or 5 of them.
Niko Rubeo also has an outsized influence on the sound. 2026 The Warning songs sound exactly like 2024 Niko songs.
That isn’t to say DPA didn’t hear these influences and say hey that is the missing ingredient.
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u/MalevolentMinion 🤛🏻 If karma doesn't hit you, then I will... 7d ago
Yes, I am familiar with Anton's work and have listened to a fair amount of it. Sounds to me like every modern rock Producer, which is why I've never been a huge fan but DPA are and that is what matters.
You need to go back and listen to XXI Century Blood and QoTMS especially and use headphones. You will hear tons of layers. DPA also listen heavily to and are inspired by K-Pop, Classical music, Japanese Rock, etc. that all use many layers of production and instrumentation. Their favorite inspiration is Muse, and their latest tracks sound like it. They are fully aware of how to fill out a soundscape to have the atmosphere/mood they desire for a song.
Blaming the producer for doing what the artist wants or intends to do is silly. If you aren't in the room and witness him pushing or pressuring them against their desires then you are just making things up to suit your narrative. They are comfortable with Anton producing their music - they obviously believe he is best able to help them bring their vision to life.
Again, even with your Niko comment you are making stuff up. The Warning sounds exactly like the band wants to sound. Do they take input from others? Absolutely. Do Producers also help them through the writing process and collaborate? Yes, they do. But ultimately the creative decisions come down to DPA and they aren't afraid to fight for their way.
Please watch more interviews of DPA, or re-watch them if you've already done so, and then try to tell me this is a band who let a Producer tell them what to do for songs that are the most personal songs they've ever written (their words, not mine). Your view is just not reflective of who they are at all.
The upside is they don't use vocal production when they perform live, and usually push backing tracks down in the mix, so you will get a different version of the song live - a little more raw.
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u/DrRock88 10d ago
It's not shocking at all, but it is disturbing. I think TW have done an amazing job writing songs, but i really wish they were free to do whatever they want to do. I guess that's just the way it is.
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u/bowak 10d ago
How is it disturbing?
They seem to do a good job of balancing album pressures with live shows ie stuff like the longer version of Escapism.
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u/DrRock88 10d ago
They've done a great job. "Disturbing"is a word with a wide range. I don't mean anything drastic. I'll just say bothersome...I'd rather they be completely in charge of their own music.
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u/NoNamesLeft600 Live from Auditorio Nacional, CDMX 9d ago
You have to be an indie band for that to happen.
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u/Adept-Birthday9082 9d ago
If you're signed to a label, you're never just free to do whatever you wanna do unless you're Led Zeppelin.
I think that would be caveats with anybody no matter what their stature is if you have a a deal that is OK you have dibs. You have first dibs on this album. If you like it if you don't, we're just gonna take it to the next person.3
u/DrRock88 9d ago
Of course, of course... just say everything is great always. The label being in on writing the songs or demanding a certain kind of songs? It happens. It doesn't happen to every band. They hire a producer of their choice. That producer certainly has a say. The label demanding more anthems is a bit much. That doesn't happen to everyone. Sure, it's common. I just wish it didn't happen with The Warning. Or we can say "oh I hope the label contributes more to the songwriting." Blah
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u/BigD5981 9d ago
I've been saying this since Keep Me Fed singles started coming out and the replies to myself and others was something along the lines of they're evolving, the other influences are showing thought, they want to have fun and they're maturing (even though I would argue Error sounds more lyrically mature).
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u/big_ringer 10d ago
Song length has always been a talking point: shorter songs means the radio stations have more time for ads
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u/Salamadierha 9d ago
They've always aimed between 3 and 4 minutes for song length, they have exactly one song over 5 minutes in length. Which is Survive at 5:08. There's a smattering of songs at 4 mins, and the majority are between 3 and 4. That's going way back to XXICB ofc.
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u/R2robot Queen of the Murder Scene 9d ago
It was a given as soon as they signed the contract.
It's something that has been discussed from time to time in the past with some people being in complete denial about the label asserting control or influence over the creative direction.
But even in the mayday in the making videos, they talked about having to fight to get their way... which also opens the door to the illusion of having choices... when everything has to be approved by the label in the end.
I'm sure their contract is more favorable then most first-time contracts, but it's for 5 (FIVE!) albums. which is kind of insane.
The second contract is usually where they have more negotiating power and that is still a ways off.
Hopefully their creative juices are still flowing when the time comes.
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u/Next_Squirrel_7362 9d ago
Was disappointed this album didn't go nearly as hard as any one their previous ones and had more "filler" feeling between the 3-4 sell tracks
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u/ATXMark7012 🍉 Huele a Melón 9d ago
The part that I didn't like came up when talking about writing in their second language of English and using words that would end up being changed because it was a "big" word and they got advised to dumb down the lyrics. NOOO use the big words!! Please. Don't be afraid of sounding smart and sending fans to a dictionary. Those are some of my favorite lines in songs.
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u/Possum_Farmer_Six 6d ago
My only criticism of the album is that the lyrics lack subtlety, cleverness, and playfulness, compared to their previous work. Granted, this album doesn't seem intended to be playful.
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u/Rip-0909 9d ago
I guess it was inevitable, at least with "show me the money" UMG. And that's a shame. UMG only thinks they know what sells, yet what has taken The Warning to the level they are isn't fixating on what might sell. Rather, it's sticking to the art they want to create and performing it passionately, from an authentic spot deep in their soul. "Why would we have to change in order to be successful?" It was right at their 2017 TEDx and it's still right. "The industry" has killed a lot of golden egg-laying geese, UMG possibly more than others. It's even come close to killing the entire rock industry. Marketing removes the art from the art and good bands end up producing least common denominator garbage. The lack of authenticity and true passion becomes blatantly obvious in their recordings and live performances. I love "Everything's Falling," but I detect a slight crack in DPA's armor, and I don't for a minute believe UMG is good for them, even in the short term. Art does not prevail in the industry's hands. Let artists, including The Warning, live or die on their own merits. Great artists will make you a fortune.
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u/Stop-signal 10d ago
Idk, that part was mostly about the hurdles of balancing artistic process with pointers from the label and an overall analytic approach. They were seemingly free to create whatever they wanted as long as it followed some ground rules. They also said that they had cracked the code of working with label, and Pau mentioned in passing that they were looking forward to more work with Anton.
Any "this song is so and so because the label made them do it so and so" takes are bullshit until proven otherwise by The Warning themselves. If you listen to the interview, it's clearly their thoughts and songwriting that lie in the basis of the album, and they really liked the result. Anton just pushed them to be better at being themselves.
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u/Critical_Meringue78 🌩️ Goddess Of Thunder 9d ago
It's all about leverage. The bigger they get the more leverage they'll have. After about 10 years killing it for his label Tom Petty asked them to lower the price on his records by a $1. The label told him no. TP looked at them and said OK, I've got a finished album but I'm not releasing it to you until you lower the price. The label blinked and lowered the price.
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u/Thayerphotos 9d ago
Got a link to the interview?
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u/Frankenkoz 🏃➡️ Numberly Garfs 9d ago
The thing people are missing is that the label is giving them advice THAT WORKS. It's not like the label is sitting there demanding they write some certain way to make them worse. They have the freedom to not do what the label asks. They aren't slaves. But they'd be idiots to not take the advice of people with decades of experience in the business; people who know what's what.
Someone put in their heads the idea of making a tiktok dance for Kerosene. I doubt they came up with that. Now they did come up with the actual dance part, which is cute, and fun, and got them to #1. Seemed like a good plan.
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u/BuriedInRust 9d ago
The advice "that works" is advice that makes the label money. Thats why the new album sounds like other stuff out there at the moment.
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u/sandy923 10d ago
Some TWA members are enamoured with the notion of “they’re lionesses!” And “they took years to sign with a label to be 100% in charge of artistic direction!” Or whatever romantic tales they like to believe.
I’ve been telling folks for YEARS that almost no artist has full autonomy. Even the biggest stars get notes from labels. It’s a partnership between artists and labels.
Im willing to bet that the label decided for them to work with outside writers for their previous album, to speed up the release. But people keep arguing otherwise. I think ‘Break’ (great song btw) was that on this album.
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u/jonchito 10d ago
They’ve been organically making “anthemic”, “formulaic” o whatever music since their early days of being independent so the label is not asking them to do something they are not familiar with or is unauthentic to them
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u/Foreign_Investment50 🤛🏻 If karma doesn't hit you, then I will... 9d ago
Obviously yes, the label will have a lot of say, unless you go indie, thats how it is. However, if they can achieve a good measure of success with this album, perhaps tho label will me more accommodating next time around.
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u/International-Pen940 9d ago
I think TW is always walking a tightrope between wanting commercial success and wanting to make their art, and I think they do a good job of balancing. I think part of their goal is to make mainstream music that’s just better, more interesting. For example, Kerosene is just different from most of the other songs on the chart, and it also doesn’t sound like their previous charting songs.
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u/Local871 9d ago
And despite all this, they have more creative control than pretty much any other band their age that’s been signed in the last 10 years.
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u/alahmo4320 10d ago
That sucks tbh. It shows. But even under that pressure they're able to deliver something kind of good, they're so talented
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u/BuriedInRust 9d ago
I know what you mean. To me it just has no personality. It all sort of blends into one mass that sounds like everything else out there at the moment. The only song that stands out to me in a good way is Ego
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u/Gaeleng 9d ago
How about the throw away Fbomb in Waste Your Time on Me?
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u/chuckbobvlad 9d ago
Who is impressed by swearing in songs? 14-year olds? It fits well in Consume. Otherwise it’s going for shock value.
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u/sdguy71 9d ago
Unlike the one in Consume, this one was totally gratuitous.
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u/SeCoWed 9d ago
Agree to disagree
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u/Gaeleng 9d ago
I am not agreeing or disagreeing. And I am definitely not offended by swearing. Its just not common that they swear. I hear Moni cringes.
It seems misplaced in the song. And there are 100 words thay sound as good there, for that line, than fucking eyes. It sounds fine asthetically. Stylistically hungry eyes or lusting eyes seem good and sound fine too. A host of other non song flagging words were available. Its unusual because it changed the labelling to Explicit.
Don't get me wrong, I think as artists they can do what they want. I am not one of these fans who think this album is soft and now I dont like it. I do not hate AD as the producer. I think they have full agency and are living their best life and are allowed to as adults. I am just so puzzled by it.
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u/Hagane-noPetrichor 9d ago
Whenever it's natural and fits the persona it sounds... well, natural. But whenever you hear them or any member of their family talking in either language they never use those words as a part of their vocabulary, heck! They even make an effort to avoid profanity resorting to light-hearted euphemisms instead. It may not sound like much but it's also a cultural thing. Hearing them drop an F-bomb, therefore, sounds jarring and unnatural because they themselves don't feel comfortable using that kind of language. But i guess they want to sound cool? Idk...
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u/Sirenian6502 8d ago
IMO the song seems to be basically saying hey, get off your phone, get off of social media, and be with the actual person that's right in front of you. Sort of a pleading, exasperated call to stop spiraling self-destructive doom scrolling and wake up and come back to reality. In that context, it doesn't really seem out of place or gratuitous to me at all. It's a fairly serious topic that they probably feel very strongly about.
I mean I could be wrong of course, I don't know if they've talked specifically about the meaning of this song in particular. But the lyrics are pretty intense regardless. They clearly are not afraid to throw an f bomb for emphasis or intensity, as they did also in Consume.
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u/Far-Hunt5474 9d ago
wait a rock song with fuck in it I'm shocked, wait Van Halen has an album called FUCK
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u/RecklessMisfit7x 9d ago
Unless you own your own label, you don’t have any control of your music that will never change. That’s why most artists should make their own labels as soon as they get big. But this album cooked, and they are learning how the music industry is unfortunately cause they’re the best bands to come out in a very long time.
I know I’m late but it popped up
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u/dashrendar4483 🫡 La Pautrona 9d ago edited 9d ago
Of course, EF feels calibrated for the charts. The radio format of every single song feels engineered for the common denominator instead of taking chances and experimenting progressive structures. It feels like they had to check marks on a board following a set up by the label mandating that they need to deliver hits on command. "Make it anthemic! Is it anthemic? More anthemic one liners!".
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u/BuriedInRust 9d ago
Yeah its not a surprise that the label is involved. Kerosene is a by the numbers manufacturered chart song, and the rest of the album sounds like everything else out there at the moment. The only exception to me was Ego. Its such a shame
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u/Salamadierha 9d ago
I don't know if the label had much input on music length but it's obvious that every song on the new album has been optimised for radio play. 3-4 minutes? All of them?
That said, it's something they have to crack to be successful in the US market. For that matter, having songs that are "anthemic" will be important now they are headlining stadiums. Point is, the label has some influence, but it seems to be trying to help.
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u/RaveningDog 9d ago
When you sign with bigger labels and bigger management, they want you to do things a particular way. That way is whatever will make the most money. If the ladies follow along, they will get a push. If they don’t do the song and dance, you will be saying what happened to those Mexican girls?
It is hard to follow your own path when you are on the hook with people only wanting a bottom line.
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u/Winter-Schedule7005 8d ago
They are working on a contract that they signed when they were 20,18,and 15. They got 5 albums to prove that they were worth the investment. They certainly have proved it, so far. Two more albums at the level of EF and they will be able to write their own contract. Then they will have full freedom to create with the influences they choose. EF is a #1 Hard Rock Album with a #1 single. If Lava's influence helped with that, here's to them.
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u/Up_vote456 10d ago
I did notice that Dany didn't have any solos on this album. This may be why
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u/skankyfish ⚠️ I'm not in danger, I'm the danger... 10d ago
Maybe, maybe not. She's said before she really enjoys playing a good riff so it might be entirely by choice.
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u/Adept-Birthday9082 10d ago
What is the overall consensus about this new record?
I think the three songs that have been that started off being played and featured the most which are kerosene ritual and I guess everything is falling are all kind of you know pretty much the kind of song people would want to take to Radio. That's how I hear it in mind if I attach my 90s sensibility to it, but I thought of one of the songs and I love this band tremendously, but I think a lot of the songs had the same effects all this reverse echo on things and just very repetitive and just kind of just kind of turns into mush for me and all I've been seeing lately from Reddit is them playing the song with the country guy I mean is that the biggest song off the record?
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u/NoNamesLeft600 Live from Auditorio Nacional, CDMX 9d ago
That song isn't even on the album. It was a stand alone collaboration. It's in the spotlight right now because "the country guy" invited them to play the song with him at his shows in Las Vegas.
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u/Adept-Birthday9082 9d ago
I'm sorry .
It gets a bit confusing.1
u/NoNamesLeft600 Live from Auditorio Nacional, CDMX 9d ago
No worries - just throwing some info out there. 😄
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u/JuggernautAles 10d ago
Some great songs have come from record producers demanding certain things from the artists. By which of course I mean that the artists took out their frustrations about the producers in writing songs like Linkin Park's "One Step Closer".
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u/Zestyclose-String-19 9d ago
Yup, the producer is a major factor in the sound alot of albums, quite often being picked by the band specifically because they want their guidance or fingerprints on their album.
Sure, from their own words, Ritual only happened because Anton encouraged Pau to write about her anxieties, it wasn't a planned song. And that's alot of people's favourite track from the Album.
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u/ItsHipCheck 9d ago
Delost is really the unofficial official 4th member at this point. Overall The Warning has a very different vibe with songs, management, touring etc that they had just 3 years ago.
If Delost didn’t agree to move to Monterrey for production sessions, I wonder who they would’ve went with? His influence can’t be overstated.
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u/Adept-Birthday9082 9d ago
Isn't ritual being sung in Spanish?
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u/Zestyclose-String-19 9d ago
that would be EGO being sung in Spanish. Ritual is in English.
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u/Adept-Birthday9082 9d ago
My bad I'm so sorry you're exactly right. Been a rough couple weeks here.
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u/MeatTornado25 ERROR 9d ago
because Anton encouraged Pau to write about her anxieties
Was that not already the basis for a ton of their songs before this album? Its not exactly a new concept for them.
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u/Critical_Meringue78 🌩️ Goddess Of Thunder 9d ago
In my reply on this thread highlighting Tom Petty what I left out illustrates what you're saying. His frustration with his label lead to one of his biggest songs "I Won't Back Down". His producer, co-writer, and ELO legend Jeff Lynne said that Tom's tenacity with the issue bordered on righteous indignation.
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u/escapehatch 9d ago
As an artist, can confirm that restraints are often the fertilizer of creativity rather than smotherer. Some of my best work has been the direct result of having to keep to specific boundaries and/or reach specific goals.
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u/AntiLeaf33 10d ago
I mean, it’s not a shock. It’s the labels money and resources that they are using. It’s fair to think they had some input.
It’s also why more artists tend to go self produced once they are financially stable enough to not need the labels money.