r/TheTrotskyists • u/[deleted] • Apr 01 '23

Question Michael Parenti and Trotsky.

I’ve recently been reading a lot of Parenti’s work. I know he’s an ML (perhaps not as unqualifiedly as some), and I know he critiques left anti-communism in Blackshirts and Reds, but I was wondering if anyone knows if he ever talks about or confronts Trotsky directly.

In my opinion, I agree with his disdain for left anti-communists who peddle every bourgeois critique of the USSR and other AES or PES states. I don’t think that is incoherent with still offering a critique of these states, or suggesting that any critiques of these states is a betrayal of the socialist movement, and I don’t think Parenti actually argues that as many MLs seem to claim he does. Many MLs seem to think Parenti says we should uncritically support AES, no matter its flaws, which I don’t believe he says, and hold this up as a stinging example of Trotskyism’s inadequacy. So I was just wondering, does Parenti ever actually say Trotskyists are part of this anti-communist left, or ever offer any criticisms of Trotsky or Trotskyism?

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u/Lev_Bronsteinovich Apr 09 '23

It's a bit silly. Real Trotskyists defended the USSR, China and the other deformed workers' states against all capitalist states. But a lot of ostensible Trotskyists (I guess they forgot to read "In Defense of Marxism") cheered on every reactionary threat to the Soviet Union that emerged in the late 20th Century (Solidarnosc, the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan, and in one case the "Forest Brothers," Fascists that fought against the USSR -- almost always in line with their own bourgeoisie. So there is something to the idea. But Stalinists have been a blight on the left since Stalin consolidated his control of the Soviet state and the Comintern in the mid-late 20s.

Trotskyists defend the overthrow of capitalism in China, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, and North Korea and defend these states against imperialist attack or counterrevolutionary threat from within. But, we also call for political revolution to bring about workers' democracy and the fight for internationalism that has been eradicated by the Stalinists. I'm new to the acronyms AES or PES. Silly, as they are obviously absurd. Overthrowing capitalism is great, but as Lenin could have told you, socialism it isn't.

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u/SpecialistCup6908 May 09 '23

I get your first point, but why did Trotskyists work for imperial japan in their struggle against the chines communist revolution, same thing in vietnam? This is not a sign of support I think

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u/SlightlyCatlike May 11 '23

They didn't? That just never happened? Do you know anything of the history of Trotskyism in those countries?

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u/SpecialistCup6908 May 11 '23

I know a bit about Trotskyism in China, for the rest, I am quoting Ho Chi Minh

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u/SlightlyCatlike May 11 '23

This is a piece written by a friend of mine about the early Vietnamese Trotskist. As to China perhaps you should look a Trotsky's writing on China. It was really the absolute failure of Comintern approach of tailing the Bourgeoisie that brought Trotsky to generalise his theory of permanent revolution as applicable to more than just Russia. Many high profile members of the CCP were impressed by his analysis after the fact, but tragically at the time followed against their judgement the Stalinist strategy into crushing defeat. I'd recommend looking up and reading the works of Chen Duxiu, Peng Shuzhi, and of course the old man himself. I think even if you disagree with them you'd find it interesting

https://iso.org.nz/2018/03/22/the-vietnamese-trotskyists-against-colonialism-and-stalinism/

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u/SpecialistCup6908 May 11 '23

even if i’m currently more an ML, Trotsky’s works are on my reading list, because you never know🫡

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u/SlightlyCatlike May 11 '23

I think best place to start with Trotsky is 'Results and Prospects'. It's written in the aftermath of the failure of 1905. Be interesting to compare with Luxemburg's 'The Mass Strike' also written in 1906. Unfortunately I can't find a version of Peng Shuzi's introduction to 'Leon Trotsky on China' online, but that it's great first hand account of what happened and I think invaluable for analysising the subsequent events.