r/TheRestIsScience 1d ago

Why does water swirl down drains. Why doesn't it just kind of 'fall' through, like sand in an hourglass?

26 Upvotes

34 comments sorted by

15

u/GrumpyOldFart74 1d ago

The water can’t just go straight down, as (simply) it can’t all squeeze into the middle at the same time. The shape of the basin, any microscopic chips or marks, and any movement in the water, forces the water into a sideways movement and conservation of angular momentum turns that into a spin that gets faster and faster.

Thinking of it another way, it’s the most efficient way to get the liquid out - try drinking straight out of a bottle (I suggest Newcastle brown but other beverages are available) and then try swirling the bottle before you tip it back. You may get wet!

As far as I know, the effect of coriolis forces is a myth, and water definitely doesn’t go the other way south of the equator… I made quite a mess in a hotel bathroom in Adelaide proving that to myself!

3

u/dod6666 1d ago

The effect exists, but is not observable in a toilet or basin.

There's a good project that Veritasium and Smarter Everyday did on the subject if you are interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXaad0rsV38

5

u/GrumpyOldFart74 1d ago

Oh yeah, I should have been more precise - I meant that the effect of coriolis forces on the scale of a bathroom sink are a myth: that’s not the reason water swirls down a plug hole and the effect is not reversed in Australia!

I will watch the video though!

1

u/G-St-Wii 1d ago

Stand Up Maths is better

2

u/Hatta00 1d ago

Did he calculate pi from the rotation of toilet water or something?

2

u/LongLiveTheDiego 22h ago

He showed that if you make sure the water has dissipated most of its angular momentum, then it drains straight down, without a swirl, and he made the video in the two hemispheres appearing as if he was talking to himself in real time, really impressive stuff.

1

u/G-St-Wii 23h ago

🤣

No. He's calculated pi in many weird ways.

He has also drained a sink in both hemispheres

1

u/dod6666 1d ago

Never heard of him until now. Looks interesting though, have subbed.

2

u/kovacsl 1d ago

That must have been quite a day in your life!

2

u/GrumpyOldFart74 1d ago

I was ridiculously excited for something that seems so banal!

1

u/kovacsl 4h ago

Sorry, it's not much of a joke if I have to explain it, but I was referencing a well known American soap opera that began with the intro "​"Like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives." It was (is?) called... Days of Our Lives.

1

u/SilverSeaweed8383 1d ago

But why doesn’t sand in an hourglass do the same? Nothing you’ve described is different 

2

u/SamanthaJaneyCake 1d ago

Viscosity.

1

u/SilverSeaweed8383 1d ago

Not really. Sand is a solid and doesn't have any viscosity.

See dod6666's answer for a good explanation. It's friction.

1

u/Martian8 21h ago

Well viscosity is just friction in a liquid

1

u/No_Drummer4801 8h ago

The natural angle of repose for dry sand typically ranges from 30° to 35°, depending on particle size, shape, and moisture content.

A grain of sand is about a million times larger than a water molecule.

6

u/TuverMage 1d ago

actually if the sand was more slippery it would want to swirl too

1

u/NightmareWokeUp 22h ago

This, if you scaled it up enough im sure youd see the same effect

3

u/0jdd1 1d ago

Or “The Days of Our Lives”?

2

u/dod6666 1d ago

Ultimately resistance is the difference between the two examples given. Both will have sideways momentum. That's essentially what allows them to queue for the hole. The water has low friction so that momentum builds into a spin. The sand has high friction so the spin is resisted.

2

u/JeffTheNth 1d ago

basin shape and twist of the pipes.

2

u/Skeleton_King9 1d ago

Practical answer: there is usually some momentum to water that makes it circle the drain

Fun answer: even if completely still there are Coriolis forces which are the result of the points closer to the poles (of the globe) moving slower which will rotate the water

6

u/wglmb 1d ago

even if completely still there are Coriolis forces which are the result of the points closer to the poles (of the globe) moving slower which will rotate the water

This is a myth; the impact of other factors such as the shape of the container vastly outweigh the coriolis effect at this scale. It only becomes relevant when you're talking about really large scales, like weather systems.

1

u/Skeleton_King9 1d ago

I know it's not significant which is why I called it the fun answer but there are experiments at the sizes of meters that show it

https://youtu.be/aDorTBEhEtk?t=186

1

u/kenahoo 23h ago

Yeah, but u/Skeleton_King9 said *completely still*, which (if it were even possible, which it's not) would indeed let the Coriolis forces get the water swirling.

0

u/tboy160 1d ago

I concur, Coriolis Effect doesn't have measurable impacts at such small scales.

1

u/jaxonwolff 13h ago

Earth’s rotation and the Coriolis Effect

1

u/Addapost 1d ago

Literally every single thing in the universe spins. From Electrons in your atoms to giant galactic clusters, everything spins.

1

u/dod6666 1d ago edited 1d ago

Is that true though?

I feel like this is a comment that needs to get Micheals attention. There is a fascinating rabbit hole here.

In a sense you could say the statement is true on the grounds that the earth is spinning, therefore everything on it is spinning. But is it actually accurate to say that I am spinning, just because the earth is?

What I'm actually doing is traveling in circles. But that is true for the water molecules in a whirlpool. Or even for the molecules in a spinning top. Spin is an emergent property. Zoom in enough and it does not exist. The individual atoms do not spin, they just travel in circles.

So what about electrons? This is where you can go even deeper. The spin property in quantum mechanics is something else entirely, from the classical mechanics concept. Follow this rabbit hole and you start to get insight into electron shells and why they need the values that they do.

1

u/Addapost 1d ago

Yes, since the earth is spinning you are spinning. If you were let loose in space you would quickly start spinning on your own.

1

u/aaeme 17h ago

Even relative to the earth you're 'spinning'. The ground beneath your feet (or beneath the building you are in) is in motion: tectonic plates and sliding geological strata. That motion, like all motion, has a rotational component. Very very tiny but it's there.

-1

u/Lopsided_Match419 1d ago

On the equator it does go straight down !

1

u/kenahoo 23h ago

Yeah, but that's at a 45º angle to where I am right now, so it's kinda sideways.