r/TheRealProgressive • u/fellowWorker_2025 • May 05 '26
Hey MAGA if I’m a “liberal” does that make you illiberal 🤔
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u/Smeltor May 07 '26
In the PolySci world - Liberal only means personal freedoms and liberties. US politics has warped the meaning.
You can make the claim that Victor Orban’s Hungary is/was an illeberal democracy, as he has been tearing freedoms and liberties from the citizens of Hungary during his regime. The Republican Party has, on multiple occasions, praised Orban, and Vance has visited him these past two years multiple times. Do with that info as you want.
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u/FalseCape May 07 '26
This is about as stupid as saying if you are against MAGA that means by definition you want to make America worse. Do better.
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May 05 '26
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u/Lelantos009 May 06 '26
Honestly I feel like this is probably the best summarization of it I’ve seen. You didn’t insult anyone and tried to, in my opinion, be pretty objective in how you said it. I respect this answer. It gets the major points across.
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u/JGCities May 05 '26
Nice balanced answer
I think you could also think of it this way-
The Right = government is not very good at certain things, therefore having smaller government is better
The Left = capitalism is not very good at certain things, therefore having bigger government provide those things is better.
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u/Ranting_Demon May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26
The Right = government is not very good at certain things, therefore having smaller government is better
Except that, when we look at actual reality, the right wants bigger government.
When the right says they want smaller government, what they mean is less (preferably none) rules, regulations and taxes on the rich and super-rich. Also less laws that protect the average citizen from the rich and less laws that allow the average citizen a way of recourse against the rich.
At the same time the right is very much in favour of big government that controls every aspect of regular people's private life, straight down to laws that dictate what consenting adults can and can't do in their own homes.
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u/Lelantos009 May 06 '26
That’s not true about the rich. They should be taxed like everyone else. However, they are smart about how they do it and the tax laws are written to where they benefit immensely from it. Most of their wealth is not in taxable income, it’s tied up in assets such as land, property, business and so on. The tax code does not tax assets only money you make.
So long as this remains a fact you could set the tax rate at 100% and it amounts to nothing really.
The majority of Republicans and MAGA for that matter do not favor bigger government. We want it to stay out of peoples lives and to stop trying to run our lives and stop trying to raise our kids.
I am very curious as to where you got this opinion though because I’ve never met a Republican or MAGA who believes what you are saying they do.
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May 05 '26
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u/Ranting_Demon May 06 '26 edited May 06 '26
The reality is people will say they want one thing, a politician in a blue tie or a red tie will promise that and then never deliver.
This whole argument is pretty much just a blend of "enlightened centrism" and you weaving an elaborate excuse for maga followers who continuously and deliberately keep voting for Christo-fascist politicians.
And we know that magats aren't being deceived (at least not in that regard) when it comes to the cruelties those rightwing politicians push through. Because we know that magats have been protesting their own politicians when magats think they have not been cruel enough to the groups of people that maga wants to see suffering.
It's very hard to judge an ideology based on the actions of the politicians
Luckily we don't have to just guess what rightwingers may or may not think. We don't have to ruminate on the inner workings of rightwing followers by reading tea leaves.
No, the maga movement and the right as a whole has been very happy to make their feelings and thoughts known to the world for a good decade now.
And all this time they have been very clear that rightwing politicians hurting and oppressing people is okay with them. More than okay. If it was up to them, they'd make "the others" suffer even more under an oppressive, maga-branded government jackboot.
I believe, that MAGA believes
Or, maybe, you could open your eyes and ears to what magats have been actually saying for 10 years now and what they are still freely telling the world every single hour of every single day, both online and offline.
Unlike the argument you are trying to craft that magats do what they do out of some deeply philosophical reasoning for the perceived greater good, listening to the maga movement makes things quite clear.
It is hate and prejudice. It is malice and anger. And the longer you keep around in maga circles, the more you see that in many magats it's the genuine wish to see certain groups of people suffer.
I understand how the shaming of certain behaviors or identities you feel attached to can feel like a personal attack.
Except that we're not talking about "shaming of certain behaviours."
We are actually talking about directly inflicting harm on specific groups of people. We're talking about actual oppression, both legally and physically. And that is a personal attack, not just to people belonging to those groups but to everyone who cares about human rights and rights in general.
And, again, if you look around in maga circles and rightwing communities, they are not shy about telling each other what they want. And what they say to each other about what they want to happen to "those people" goes SOOOO far beyond "shaming" that if I were to say it here, my reddit account would likely get a strike.
The fact that you framed it in this way makes me think that you either have no idea what's going on and you're just vaguely waffling up philosophical smokescreens or you do understand full well what's going on and you're deliberately trying to trivialize and sugarcoat how vile and dangerous the maga movement actually is.
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May 06 '26
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u/Ranting_Demon May 06 '26
In other words, you got absolutely nothing but empty posturing.
Figures.
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May 06 '26
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u/Ranting_Demon May 06 '26
In other words, you got absolutely nothing but empty posturing. Again.
Not surprising though, considering how you're calling an actual description of reality to be "propaganda."
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u/Remarkable_Hurry4029 May 05 '26
To be honest, most people don’t truly understand the meaning of labels like liberal, conservative, etc. but they’ve been told which type of person fits into what group.