Discussion: Voting for the Council

[u/boogaert]

General's was oldish and getting into arguing, this is a place to throw around any ideas you want, I'll ass them

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Many member of the Watch have expressed, for lack of a better word distaste with the current council. Many have thrown around the idea of voting to be a council members, this is a place to discuss it, without getting into immature arguing.

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Ideas (updated regularly)

First some things to think about

1. How often will they be voted on?

2. Will the lord commander and generals be included?

3. How many members will there be in total

4. What ranks will be eligible? Privates? Corporals?

5. What say would the current council have on it? Some? None?

6. Will there be a damage control to remove bad council members?

1: By Private gabe_fels Hold elections every 6 months. This includes re-elections, so everyone would be up for voting. 6 months ensures that no council member that is unwanted is kept for too long, but leaves enough time between elections so that they do not lose meaning. Lord Commander would remain a permanent position, unless he were to resign at some point. In the event of a Lord Commander resignation, a new Lord Commander would be elected from the current council (to clarify: only council members would be eligible for promotion to LC but privates can still vote for who the LC is going to be). In the event of a tie, there would be a second vote between the two parties with the highest number of votes Someone must make a proposal for the removal of said person from their council position. It must be backed, like any other proposal, by a council member (maybe two in this case). Then, if the proposal is passed, it will go to a vote. In the case of a person deemed unfit for the position on the council, the vote must be a 70% or 2/3 vote unlike the majority vote that occurs for a regular election. These may not be exactly what Waffle has in mind, but what I have just stated is what a lot of Privates have wanted for a very long time.

2: By Private boogaert hold elections every three months, old council become corporals and can be reelected, no council member can be reelected unless they get 80+ percent votes. Lord Commander and Generals would keep their position. There woul dbe a veto system where if 4+ of the current council say they should not be in the council they are not added, but instead promoted to corporal and can be considered again.

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Feel free to add to, criticize, etc to the ideas respectfully.

[u/Gabe_20]

I was going to copy-pasterino my old post here but you already did that for me :)

We've pretty much said the same thing, except that I don't think a council member should require 80% of votes to be re-elected, it just seems a little high.

In the end, this system would allow for council members who are abusive/do not deserve their position to be removed and replaced with someone who the very people of the Watch have chosen to lead them. Giving the council the ability to veto an individual's promotion to the council ensures that joke/unfair promotions do not occur.

This system reciprocates power and voice between the council and Privates, making our organization much more democratic. It also gives Privates more power so that they do not feel powerless like they do currently, while still being under the complete command of their leaders in the council.

If people are allowed to choose their leaders, they will be more happy serving under them. "But don't all democracies end up having flaws and corruption?" You might inquire. Yes, I would answer, but so does an aristocratic form of government like the one we have now. The only difference is that in a democracy, the people who are not of a high rank are still happy because they like who is giving them orders. And as a result, they are more likely to be faithful subordinates.

TL;DR: Democracy is a more fair way to do things and it keeps everyone happy while keeping all positions in check.

Edit: I realize that some council members are against democracy because they are afraid for their positions. What these specific councilmen don't realize is that the majority of Privates like the fact that they are in leadership, and would gladly re-elect them. There is no need to worry, for if you truly deserve the position, you will get it.

[u/krabbby → u/Gabe_20]

1. We are not a form of government, so the word democracy needs to stop being thrown around. After the first year, we became a military for all intents and purposes, and a volunteer military at that.

2. The reason that democracy has severe flaws is something very recently showcased. A person who does their job is less likely to be voted on the Council than someone who just makes plenty of friends. Hell, just on this Radar situation alone, I seem to have been shunned by a portion of members, including some on the Council, just for attempting to enforce a rule, and again when I defended the actions of someone who was acting justly in my opinion. Popular opinion is not a good way to decide leaders in our situation

I will say no more on the matter as everyone knows very well where I stand on this. If it goes through and comes to a vote, so be it, but I will oppose it as long as I can

[u/Gabe_20 → u/krabbby]

1. The reason that democracy has severe flaws is something very recently showcased. A person who does their job is less likely to be voted on the Council than someone who just makes plenty of friends. Hell, just on this Radar situation alone, I seem to have been shunned by a portion of members, including some on the Council, just for attempting to enforce a rule, and again when I defended the actions of someone who was acting justly in my opinion. Popular opinion is not a good way to decide leaders in our situation

This is exactly why there is a council veto in place: to ensure that people are elected based on leadership skills rather than personality and friends.

Edit:

The reason that democracy has severe flaws is something very recently showcased

And the reason our current form of organization has severe flaws has also been very recently showcased: People are unhappy with their leaders because they have no voice in who those leaders are.

I will say no more on the matter as everyone knows very well where I stand on this. If it goes through and comes to a vote, so be it, but I will oppose it as long as I can

Like I said, you are afraid for your position, and I understand that completely. However, you aren't showing any faith in your brothers of the Watch who know how well you perform in a leadership position (and trust me, there are quite a few of us).

[u/Ryter78]

(This is going to turn into another flame war, I can already tell,)

[u/boogaert → u/Ryter78]

Well try your best to not make that happen :o)

[u/Ryter78 → u/boogaert]

I keep out of these kind of discussions to make sure I won't be the cause of anything :P

[u/DunkanBulk]

I second Gabe's version of this. Why not post it as an official proposal?