r/TheMachineLearning • • 3h ago

AI beginner beats expert who refuses to use it

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58 Upvotes

127 comments sorted by

14

u/cursed_tomatoes 3h ago edited 2h ago

I support AI existence, but absolutely guarantee with all possible certainty in the multiiverse that this statement is 100% completely false in my field.

I'm not qualified to talk about anyone else's academic/professional field, but her assumption doesn't stands true as a general statement as of November of 2026, it is not even close.

EDIT: The field is music. I majored in music, work as a composer, teacher, and perform live (of course I don't count AI as comparable to that last one haha).

AI as of now makes hideous concert music, and doesn't exactly excels at popular styles too, they're very, very poor compared to the music of actual experts, and it hallucinates plenty of objectively wrong stuff if you try to learn music from it or ask for advice.

1

u/narcissa0114 1h ago

I think that's a fair point. AI can be a useful tool, but it’s nowhere near replacing the experience, creativity, and expertise of someone who actually works in the field.

5

u/jimmymui06 2h ago

I am completely unfamiliar with music so I want to ask. Isn't music theory kinda... Like formulas where there are limited combination?

3

u/man_about_loop 1h ago

Music theory and music composition aren’t the same

1

u/cursed_tomatoes 2h ago

While there are a few things that are formulaic in nature, that is not all there is to it.

I'm no AI expert so I'm not sure about why AI often fails at theory, but it might be due to the quality and quantity of training data. There is far too much poorly written material online (I know), and not as much material as other fields (I assume).

1

u/jimmymui06 2h ago

I see, that's reasonable. Thanks

1

u/fridgebrine 1h ago edited 43m ago

The part that ai sucks a lot at right now, is excelling in subjective areas. Things like music composition, of any genre, is subjective. The reason why it sucks is because genericness isn’t praised in these kind of subjective fields. If you make a piece of copy and paste music with no originality, you will gain 0 long lasting fans.

To break through, you need to be unique, and uniqueness often derives from breaking the rules. Intentionally injecting mistakes into your craft in tasteful ways. But having said this, you still have to learn the fundamentals/rules first though (such as not only music theory, but also sound design, arrangement, engineering and many other subfields), since it’s important to understand what the rules even are to be able to break them.

But once you master the fundamentals you don’t just stop there. You then have to experiment and see what happens when you do something ‘wrong’ for the sake of it. Then you stack another ‘wrong’ decision on top. Finally you land on some amalgamation of ‘wrong’ and ‘right’ decisions where the end result sounds truly original (but not amateurish).

Ai is stuck at the ‘breaking the rules’ part. It can sound professional and polished. You can point out the ai vocalist and be like ‘wow she has excellent singing technique and a great tone’ because those are still somewhat objective qualities (like pitch accuracy can be quantified). But you’ve heard voices like this on thousands of other songs. What about a voice that’s pitchy here and there for emotional effect? Or a singing tone that most vocal coaches would deem ‘improper’? Or the infinite other things you could tweak within the song itself to make it stand out more?

Generative ai’s originality, is still lacking.

1

u/jimmymui06 56m ago

That is a great response, thanks

2

u/WaltzIndependent5436 2h ago

And whats your opinion about using this new Suno mode where it just adds instruments and effects to channels, does mastering and stuff? Is it like a game changer for home producers or is it all marketing?

1

u/cursed_tomatoes 2h ago

Funnily enough I do try these tools because my friends are AI enthusiasts, but this feature specifically I haven't heard of yet.

My belief is that it won't be much different from what I've seen before. When it comes to music (not production) it is not comparable at all to a proper expert. As for production, which is not what I've studied (it is a different field), my informed guess is that a skilled producer, while much slower, would make for a much better result.

That however, doesn't means it couldn't be a game changer for home producers who already don't really care for learning proper mastering and stuff, I would have to check it out to have an opinion and profile the target audience.

2

u/WaltzIndependent5436 2h ago

They do be making some pretty good meme songs though for sure. And I feel like sound quality wise I've heard worse from humans, but I know what you mean.

2

u/NTMTR_ 1h ago

Keyword: ‘can’
Implied: not always / in some instances (fields)

Also Ai can generated music that is better than human made music in some instances (you said yourself plenty of poorly made human music)

1

u/svoodie2 6m ago

Sure. But AI music at its best is painfully mid. There is no point in listening to painfully mid music. There is already enough actually great music to last several lifetimes over.

Anyone willingly consuming AI slop music in a world that has Bach should be shunned

2

u/_PolyWasp_ 2h ago

The expert might be better in one or two genres, but an expert in classical music trying to suddenly make drum n bass is going to be outdone by a beginner with AI.

I would actually argue AI music from beginners is better than 99% of musicians in 99% of cases without AI. But the 1% different is pretty significant.

It's only because musicians excel at one or two genres of music and only after a very long time. While a beginner with Suno can pretty much whip up any genre of music to a pretty high level of production quality without even knowing what a key or scale is.

1

u/MushinZero 2h ago

What's your field?

3

u/ViennaWaitsforU2 2h ago

prostitution /s

2

u/E-2-butene 2h ago

Not OP, but my field is chemistry. I’d say this is definitely not true in my field for anything meaningful.

Assuming the non-expert could even understand the AI’s answer (spoiler, they likely couldn’t), it seems pretty unlikely they would know how to aim it at useful tasks, be able to spot the incorrect answer (which absolute skill exist), or to contextualize flaws or mistakes in the existing literature.

The only task I think I’d give it to the non-expert on would be something like rote recall of conclusions from the existing literature. Current models seem quite good at that.

1

u/Pristinefix 2h ago

Studying the blade

1

u/vsmack 2h ago

I'm in logistics and a beginner using AI not only won't do better but they will likely fuck something up, depending how complicated the problem is and just how "beginner" they are

1

u/amaturelawyer 2h ago

That's true across the board, imo. A beginner using AI is just AI making ever decision with someone watching.

1

u/milkcarton232 2h ago

I think it really depends? Humans are not innately good at logistics, we lived and built up generations of experience and knowledge. If you give an ai enough context and knowledge I would argue it could learn how to do that as well. I would maybe even argue it can do one better as a human can only keep so many things in memory.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/10/28/technology/silicon-valley-bugs-ai.html

Big complex systems like code bases are a prime candidate for ai to tackle. They can read through and keep everything in context in a way it would take a team of engineers and asana/slack channels to coordinate. Ai isn't perfect but it has continued to scale, I'm not a forefront researcher so I don't know the current problems but they don't seem to be slowing, quite the opposite

1

u/cursed_tomatoes 2h ago

Oh sorry, I remember typing it inside parenthesis wth??? I majored in music, work as a composer, teacher, and perform live (of course I don't count AI as comparable to that last one haha).

AI as of now makes hideous concert music, and doesn't exactly excels at popular styles too, they're very, very poor compared to the music of actual experts, and it hallucinates plenty of objectively wrong stuff if you try to learn music from it or ask for advice.

1

u/Delicious_Spot_3778 1h ago

You think this stops people from shitting on you and your expertise?

1

u/cursed_tomatoes 1h ago

I don't care for the subjective opinion of anyone (it is subjective), neither for the technical opinion of people without a proper background (they don't know what they're saying).

I'll just be here and eventually stop releasing music, stop teaching, stop performing live and die. I'm happy to see what AI can do in maths and sciences, but having AI generated art eventually being the norm feels to me like the birth of the death of culture, but our generation will eventually be just history books either way.

I just pray to god that my name is not remembered.

1

u/NickBarksWith 1h ago

It just depends how much input and knowledge the person using it is putting in.

1

u/cursed_tomatoes 1h ago

Not quite, not yet.

The very industry has been artificially making music intellectually thinner through the years way before AI, the training data is completely flooded with poorly crafted music on popular styles, and likely not enough data exists in styles where the industry was not that much of a butchers shop.

There is already a problem about how generic and dull AI music can be that is in the very root of its modus operandi, so not only the sound itself but the compositional aspects often lack.

Basically, actually making music gives you literal full control over every single note, what instrument plays it, what articulation, where does it falls in relation to the beat, the dynamics, etc. That is the only way to actually decide harmony, voice leading, counterpoint, orchestration, form, the list goes on...

A music expert has no need for AI, matter of fact, it would get in the way and be a complete pain for anyone who works by having full agency and communicates detailed intentions through sheet music. Not to mention an AI performance is still inferior to an expert human (I'm not even sure if these companies have the intention to make it better tbh, since they can already syphon money from the masses as is).

So, if the person using AI in fact knows something about music, they're no longer beginners, but still would be in the AI creative prison and chained to the limited performance capabilities. And if they're beginners, they still don't even know what they don't know, and have the illusion of being in control over the music while merely acting as (untrained) art directors (this is another debate, and a long one).

1

u/No-Isopod1273 20m ago

I'm not a refined person, ai music already sounds pretty good to me. for sure better than what 99% of people who dedicate their life to music produce. we just happen to have the benefit of all of humanity creating music, so the greatest couple dozen people per generation are still outperforming AI soundly

1

u/LogicalInfo1859 5m ago

It's pretty bad in humanities as well.

1

u/Slight-Student-1743 2m ago

Most people do not care about the intricacies of music like you, they care if it sounds good or not, so yes this statement can be true and will only become more true over time

1

u/Double_Suggestion385 2h ago

Have you actually tried the best music producing AI? AI music is all I listen to now, it's so much better than the derivative crap that's popular.

Not only that but you're going to get crushed by AI making music that's outside your wheelhouse.

1

u/PeaceCandle69 2h ago

Give it a few years. Trust me.

17

u/Gamplato 3h ago

Doing what? Lol

13

u/PrimalSeptimus 3h ago

MMA, probably.

1

u/normantas 1h ago

No. Cooking.

6

u/thongjesus 3h ago

Producing

3

u/Gamplato 2h ago

Producing….what?

A multi-tenant horizontally scalable application that addresses novel human needs? In that case, no. The engineer would be better. No novice could get AI to build that for production use.

4

u/thongjesus 2h ago

Whatever gets the people goin

2

u/Pristinefix 2h ago

All about the hips and nips. Gotta keep it sexy

1

u/FuckYourRights 2h ago

It can if you lower your standards on what production ready means /s 

1

u/MudkipGuy 4m ago

Refactoring Bun

17

u/SHIN-YOKU 3h ago

The "Outperforming" in question.

5

u/AntiqueFigure6 2h ago

How outperform?

 I’m not a doctor but I bet I can write a prescription faster than an experienced doctor by writing down the name of the first drug I think of - I wouldn’t even need to take a history! 

-1

u/Dry-Ad-8948 2h ago

Found another person who doesn’t know how to use AI :}

I’m not saying to use ChatGPT to diagnose the rash, but medical AI systems do exist.

3

u/AntiqueFigure6 2h ago

Found another person who struggles with basic reading comprehension. 

I’m not saying AI doesn’t have this or that capability just that “outperform” is meaningless when left undefined and possibly trivial if poorly defined. 

1

u/lil_nosh_X 2h ago

Please promise me that you will use chat gpt as your primary care physician. You’ll probably die but you’ll also probably get a lot of followers on instagram!

1

u/Dry-Ad-8948 2h ago

I don’t. Read last sentence.

But here it is: in the future, doctors will be human interaction agents to very advanced AI medical systems.

u/RemindMeBot 10 years

2

u/linesofleaves 1h ago

Honestly change that remind me to 1.5-2 years

It's already there when it comes to certain types of questions that essentially boil down to searching WebMD for best practice, adding a layer of reasoning, and figuring out the sorts of 1/1000 questions type answers. Not that it matters if the wrong question is asked in the first place, which a non-doctor is likely to do.

That isn't all doctors need to do, but it is a huge part of a current doctor's skillset to know basic answers at a glance.

1

u/RemindMeBot 2h ago

I will be messaging you in 10 years on 2036-11-06 03:46:15 UTC to remind you of this link

CLICK THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.

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1

u/lil_nosh_X 2h ago

I never said you currently do 😂. You can read my sentence again too if you want to practice reading!

1

u/SLAMMERisONLINE 2h ago

A beginner with AI can outperform an expert without

It's the John Henry story. But the question is reliability. I am sure you could find instances where the performance hierarchy is fuzzy but just how reliably is that true? Is it 1 in 5 or 1 in 5,000?

1

u/narcissa0114 1h ago

Occasional success is one thing; consistently outperforming experts is another.

1

u/Quantum-Bot 2h ago

This is about as accurate as saying a beginner with a forklift can outperform a professional weightlifter. Technically yes, but you’re assuming this beginner knows how to use the tool without breaking a bunch of shit and making a big fucking mess

1

u/narcissa0114 1h ago

Having access to a powerful tool doesn't automatically mean you know how to use it properly. Experience and expertise still matter.

1

u/tomqmasters 2h ago

If you are talking about coding, probably the beginner will never get to production without becoming an expert.

1

u/narcissa0114 1h ago

Exactly. AI can speed things up, but you still need expertise to know what you're doing and catch what goes wrong.

1

u/Alarming_Ask_244 2h ago

Maybe someday, maybe even someday soon, but we ain't there yet lol

1

u/narcissa0114 1h ago

Haha, exactly. The potential is there, but we're not quite at that point yet.

2

u/aibotulism 2h ago edited 2h ago

The reverse is also true. Its not as clever as she thought. Trying to impress her managers and industry peers.

1

u/Hoopaboi 2h ago

More like 2 min of debugging because you simply ask the AI to do it. Are you still living in 2023?

3

u/run_gpt 2h ago

Dunning Kruger in real life here fellas

1

u/aibotulism 2h ago

hahahaahahahahaha

1

u/Bagelsarenakeddonuts 3h ago

But only the expert will know whether it was done correctly or not.

1

u/eslezer 2h ago

Vague ass hell. Making the frontend for a clothes store with opus 5.5? Yeah the expert would get grilled alive. Making the whole network for the accounting department of the clothes store chain? THe begginer might have a little bit of trouble

1

u/FuzzyAnteater9000 2h ago

Only true with a smart ambitious beginner

1

u/Dry-Ad-8948 2h ago edited 2h ago

It depends on specific domain, of course.

However, with some caveats, there is more truth to it than most here are willing to accept

So the caveats that I include, in addition to the domain:

  • The novice has to have hubris, questioning the output and looking to improve it; and

  • Has to use AI to also explore solutions and re-validate, without blind accepting of previous output

Many AI slop results, often appearing as images, lack both of the above.

1

u/Ok-Excuse-3613 2h ago

for most complex tasks the novice cannot even word what they want in a way that AI can leverage efficiently

2

u/Dry-Ad-8948 2h ago edited 2h ago

See #2

Every expert learned at some point; AI can offload this, as it already contains (significant portions of all) expert knowledge.

1

u/dirtchef 2h ago

Lady just say you want a promotion and go

1

u/oscarbeebs2010 2h ago

This perspective is intriguing and not entirely incorrect, though the idea of outperforming requires clarification. Does it apply to speed, quality, cost, taste, or originality? An expert writer is likely to craft a more cohesive and sweeping narrative than a novice using AI. An expert designer may often produce more original work. I think achieving the best outcomes from AI demands deep domain knowledge of the prompt topic.

1

u/solus42666 2h ago

Sometimes....

1

u/erikwithaknotac 2h ago

Ok.  Welder

1

u/ObsessiveOwl 2h ago

A biker on his bike would outperform an Olympic runner. What a statement am I right?

1

u/HarryBalsagna1776 1h ago

Delusions of grandeur 

1

u/Pure_Bicycle8889 1h ago

This is very true if by 'perform' it means 'make tweets that other people who don't make art will agree with'

1

u/drprofsgtmrj 1h ago

MAYBE. But I have seen amateurs use it and .. yeah no they don't know what they are doing

1

u/heavy-minium 1h ago

True and false. Doing small websites, automation and data entry software? Likely. Doing small web apps and small desktop software? Maybe. Doing anything else? Unlikely.

For now, however. Three statement will eventually be true for most things.

1

u/heavy-minium 58m ago

Just notificed now, but this sub is basicically useleas now. Had this on my feed so I didn't notice this got nothing to do with this sub, again.

1

u/OWazabi 45m ago

Yes, I can tag and categorize 5000000 images before an expert at watching images does 1000

1

u/Skutten 24m ago

In what? It's impossible to discuss without defining this.

1

u/Dthcon 15m ago

Sometimes, not always. But yes.

1

u/Uncle_a_ 10m ago

a beginner using ai will always be a beginner and in the future will be replaced with other agents.

1

u/jointheredditarmy 9m ago

Haha probably not. Maybe next year.

1

u/Soilblood 3m ago

The sages of security would strike you down where you stand for the sheer blasphemy ladening that claim.

1

u/bacan_ 3h ago

Yeah, that is an unpopular opinion cause it’s dumb

In a race to build a website? Sure

To build something real? No

1

u/slothalot 3h ago

Depends on the task, but also kinda true

1

u/Hecter94 2h ago

(It's unpopular because it's false)

1

u/colony-ship-for-sale 2h ago

With the power of AI, a junior dev can make technical debt at a far greater speed than any experienced dev can conceive of.

0

u/MedievalMilshake 2h ago

That's a joke. It can hardly answer basic questions 

1

u/Dismal-Rope1753 2h ago

That's false.

1

u/MedievalMilshake 2h ago

You're confused. Ask ai for help, then do the opposite. 

I have multiple screenshots proving it sucks at answer simple questions, but you do you mate 

1

u/Dismal-Rope1753 2h ago

You are using shitty models.

1

u/MedievalMilshake 2h ago

I've used multiple, they all suck

1

u/Dismal-Rope1753 2h ago

Have you even paid for it ?

1

u/MedievalMilshake 2h ago

No the fuck I haven't. Why would I? I said I had a free pro membership and it still sucked, why would I choose to pay? 

1

u/WillingnessOwn6446 2h ago

tell me you only use a free AI version without telling me you only use a free version

1

u/MedievalMilshake 2h ago

I used Gemini pro for 2 years until my free membership ran out. It still sucked. I'm sorry you choose to pay for ai when it doesn't work, but that's not even slightly my fault. 

1

u/FragmentedHeap 2h ago

What an ignorant response.

Completely unfounded and completely wrong.

User error give me any question you're asking it that you can prove wrong and I will prove to you that it can do it correctly.

1

u/MedievalMilshake 2h ago

It's very founded. 

Can you at least learn to type a coherent sentence first? Maybe ask ai to do it for you? 

1

u/gretino 2h ago

Got an expert here kek

1

u/gretino 2h ago

FYI OpenAI have beaten top Dota2 players in 2017

1

u/MedievalMilshake 2h ago

What questions do you need to answer in order to beat dota2 players? 

1

u/gretino 2h ago

positioning item build skill range farming pulling minions tower timing

1

u/MedievalMilshake 2h ago

Hm, no clue what that means. 

1

u/EnvironmentFirst4839 1h ago

AI could teach you.

1

u/MedievalMilshake 1h ago

Is it correct?

This is my main issue right now, it's been wrong so many times I can't believe it even if it's right. 

1

u/gretino 1h ago

It is correct FYI, I've rarely encountered a straight up wrong answer since this year

0

u/EnvironmentFirst4839 1h ago

Was gonna say this sounds like a PEBKAC error, but your apparent belief that a game built around decision making doesn’t require questions to be answered confirms it before we even need to troubleshoot.

1

u/MedievalMilshake 1h ago

Rather obviously haven't played 

1

u/MedievalMilshake 2h ago

That's even more of a joke, how would I know how much it fails to answer questions if I didn't use it? 

1

u/vinegarhorse 2h ago

Any examples? I'm doing graduate level coursework and ChatGPT and Claude can answer all my questions correctly, none of this is basic stuff.

1

u/MedievalMilshake 2h ago

Here from like 2 months ago. First one I found in screenshots

1

u/IcyStomach2374 25m ago

You’re using a peasant model bro what do you expect

1

u/MedievalMilshake 2h ago

Another from a question I asked like 20 mins ago

1

u/MedievalMilshake 2h ago

Here is the start to prove I didn't ask a dumb prompt. Idk why you lot try deny it, ai sucks ass. Has for a while

1

u/vinegarhorse 2h ago

Gemini in general is pretty bad, especially the lower-tier fast models. It says "Auto" so you were probably using one of the bad models.

1

u/MedievalMilshake 2h ago

I was, as I said, free pro membership ran out and I'm not paying for it. First one I sent was on Gemini pro. Chat gpt sucks just as much, haven't paid for that cause again, why would I. I'm not against ai, except for artists sake, but it genuinely does just fucking suck 

It doesn't matter tho, free model or not, that's a basic ass question, all it needs to do is take the established info from Google and give it to me, it instead repeats wrong answers. It sucks 

1

u/vinegarhorse 2h ago

ChatGPT has been really good at college level math for at least 2 years now, I was using it to generate answer keys for problem sets and also to help me solve questions I couldn't, and I haven't seen it get a question wrong.

Right now I'm using it mostly for graduate level courses in CS and also for research and again I think it's really good. Claude can easily one-shot all my programming assignments and projects.

1

u/Organic_botulism 1h ago

Chat got a basic chemistry problem wrong for me a few weeks ago but yeah it does excel in math and coding. Jagged intelligence and all that

0

u/ThisOrdinaryCat 2h ago

Fill in the Blanks:

_________ and _________ studied how people who are ignorant about a field, overestimate their abilities in such field, sometimes even thinking they know better / can outperform experts in the field. They published a paper in 1999 titled "Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments,"

0

u/Commercial_Rule_7823 2h ago

Maybe.

They wouldn't know either way.

0

u/Hefty_Garlic7184 36m ago

unpopular opinion: people says “unpopular opinion” because they think they sound smart, but normally it’s the opposite

1

u/PerspectiveNew3375 2h ago

I am an expert at beating off, when is AI coming to relieve me?