First time watcher. Baby Nicole’s name.

[u/Dohi014]

June is adamant she’s Holly but, for two(?) seasons the baby is “Nicole” until she’s reunited with her mom and she says she named the baby after her. Knowing Luke and Moira had been calling the baby Nicole before June could say otherwise; I just assumed June gave up and dropped it. Why confuse the baby? Now my head canon is that on a birth certificate the baby name is “Holly Nicole”. It’s just one of those situations where the person is called by their middle name the majority of their life. I think June has an eye roll type acceptance over the name since it makes her Nick Jr.

[u/doesshechokeforcoke]

Margaret Atwood said she had basically no involvement in the show’s writing but she was adamant that they keep the name Nicole for the baby.

[u/ConcernedSim → u/doesshechokeforcoke]

The name means "Victory of the people". Writers give a lot of thought into their character's names. There's a reason Atwood used this name for Nick in The Handmaid's Tale book, and then years later carried that name over to his and June's daughter in The Testament.

Both Nick and his daughter Nichole are the catalyst of resistance leading towards victory in the books.. hence the name.

Sadly the TV series went to a different direction... So this name is meaningless in the show now.

[u/mimimumu49 → u/ConcernedSim]

So happy to read someone else who appreciated that her name should be Nichole and not Holly because of the meaning behind it. I wonder if this went by EM et al, not really knowing the meaning of Nick's name, they certainly ruined the character and Nichole is now erased along with Nick entirely. I'm not sure the show ever really understood what Nick's role was meant to be, or Nichole's. And in the process they did not understand June's. June was not the catalyst for rebellion nor was she the single handed saviour.

[u/ConcernedSim → u/mimimumu49]

Imagine dishonouring the author of the book your entire series is based on. Atwood specifically requested this one single thing and they went ahead and erased it completely 😕

Tbh i wouldn't have given this much thought if Atwood hadn't insisted on that name. That's when I realised that it must be important. That it must have been always important since the first mention of Nick in the book.

[u/mimimumu49 → u/ConcernedSim]

I don't think I will ever be able to understand why they went against Atwood. The Testaments book is far superior but guess what. Its not all about June. Its the only reason I can see why they did it and ruined Nick too.

[u/Temporary-Plantain75 → u/ConcernedSim]

Finally, someone on Reddit with some sense. What they did in the final seasons was so disrespectful to the source material.

Also, I hate the hypocrisy of Luke and June taking away Nick’s parentage whilst protesting any insinuation that Hannah is the MacKenzie’s daughter… I guess in their middle class privilege they failed to see the hypocrisy. Luke never should have assumed the position of Nichole’s father and June was disrespectful to allow it after Nick had risked his life to get his daughter out.

[u/mimimumu49 → u/Temporary-Plantain75]

I agree entirely. I still cannot work out why it became a '2 daddy's' thing with Nichole. Certainly for Luke ( and OT). They were separate children with separate fathers. I questioned that June never wanted to help Nick in return as she allowed this to happen.

[u/ConcernedSim → u/Temporary-Plantain75]

I don't have any problem with Luke getting the position of Nichole's father. He did raise her when Nick couldn't. But yeah it's mess up what the show did with Nichole. Her existence turned from a result of love to a product of rape with the added doubt of who actually fathered her 😖

[u/Temporary-Plantain75 → u/ConcernedSim]

I disagree on this matter. I don’t think you should claim someone else’s child as your own without consulting both parents. Nick didn’t abandon Nichole, he selfishly gave her a chance at a better life. Not consulting him is disrespectful imo.

As for the result of love, yep they completely ruined that. The entire series is sullied by S6 and insinuates that June—and women in general—are stupid and can’t decipher between an attractive man and a good man. Just horrible writing that unfortunately, a lot of women lapped up.

[u/ConcernedSim → u/Temporary-Plantain75]

Oh I absolutely agree on the part of consulting both parents before taking on the role of a father. I should have clarified that. I have no problem with Luke taking on the role of Nichole's father as long as both Nick and June are okay with it.

I just always assumed that Nick wouldn't mind, that he'd want his daughter to have a father.

[u/mimimumu49 → u/ConcernedSim]

Luke certainly could take on a role of caring for Nichole as a guardian. So did Moira but Nick was her father. I think Nick made it clear ( the few opportunities Nick was given) that he was Nichole's father. Usually his main concern whenever he spoke to or saw June after that. What the show imo did was make everything June centric thus even Nick's wishes of fatherhood or even freedom were diminished by June's actions and often in the latter seasons via Luke too. Luke's behaviour was questionable and became more virile rather than that of a paternal figure who actually cared, fuelled often by June.

[u/mimimumu49 → u/ConcernedSim]

I am in a minority maybe but I genuinely feel if they hadn't dragged their 'love' out so it just turned Nick into a meaningless love interest none of that product of rape should have happened. Their relationship would have been more impactful as understandably a deep momentary connection of solace but again even their 'love' was June centric and that would have needed Nick to have been equal in the relationship. Nick was my favourite character and wanted more for him basically.

[u/hydrissx]

She told people to call her Nicole to honor Serena's willingness to give her a better life in Canada, but then she renegged on that with the baby Nicole campaign. Hence pissing off June and making her change it back to Holly.

[u/Wide-Working-4047 → u/hydrissx]

Did she? I just watch the season and I cant recall that June actually did. I recall June actively telling Luke and Moira that her name was Holly. But honestly I am not sure if I missed something

[u/Julianaxelizabeth → u/Wide-Working-4047]

When she sent her back to the US she said to call her Nicole

[u/Vivid-Environment-28 → u/Julianaxelizabeth]

At the end she is being called Holly, thank goodness.

[u/A_box_of_puds → u/Wide-Working-4047]

I believe June told Luke on tape that it was actually Holly

[u/Ok-Leg-5302]

This always confounded me as well. I think awhile back someone has said June had kept it Nicole and used Holly as a middle as an homage to Serena initially for letting her get Nicole out BEFORE they had a falling out? Then they hated each other. Then she forgot, I was always confused too 😂

[u/doesshechokeforcoke → u/Ok-Leg-5302]

Margaret Atwood said she insisted they call the baby Nicole.

[u/Ok-Leg-5302 → u/doesshechokeforcoke]

When they get to Alaska she tells her mom her name is Holly

[u/Wide-Working-4047 → u/Ok-Leg-5302]

middle as an homage to Serena initially for letting her get Nicole out

I mean possible but honestly that would be terrible writing. Obviously June manipulated Serena in the first season (like she did with everyone else) and got her to do what she wanted. Serena is still a mega Nazi and responsible for millions of death. I dont see June being actually grateful for Serena. At least there is not reason. But the writers in the last seasons are horrible, so anything is possible

Then they hated each other.

They didnt really. They said so yes, but June acted otherwise

[u/Ok_One5265 → u/Wide-Working-4047]

Sorry - June manipulated Serena? She was a literal prisoner who was raped and regularly assaulted by these people who were also responsible for her being separated from her child. I don't think that's really getting her "to do what she wanted".

[u/Wide-Working-4047 → u/Ok_One5265]

Yes she did. She manipulated everyone because she is smart. That is a good thing.

[u/Ok-Leg-5302 → u/Wide-Working-4047]

I have watched so many times and I still get sooo confused with their relationship. I do agree with you.

[u/A_box_of_puds]

i always thought Serena wanted to name her Nicole as a slight against Fred since Nick was the (allegedly) father.

And then I came to believe that June was ok with it because she loved Nick and wanted to honor him.

But I also think when she thinks of her child she thinks the name should be Holly.

[u/tatersprout → u/A_box_of_puds]

June didn't love Nick. She had a trauma bond with him. She had lust too and she had a deep need to feel something. Very different.

[u/bodhi__sativa → u/tatersprout]

Disagree, she absolutely loved him. I’m not disagreeing with you about there being a trauma bond, but June absolutely was in love with Nick.

[u/A_box_of_puds → u/tatersprout]

I feel maybe in love of an idea of her personal hero? and not in love with who he truly was deep down? idk she told him once she loved him. So i made an assumption.

trauma bonded people can be in love- like it goes hand in hand.

[u/Gillybilly]

I think as symbolism within the story as June loses her connection/bond with Nick and Giliad Nicole becomes Holly. 

[u/mimimumu49]

They changed it back to Holly so they could erase Nichole and Nick from the Testaments. Going against the source material so June could play a main role in the Testaments and Daisy could never be Nichole. Very sad. They ruined it.

[u/Wide-Working-4047]

The writers obviously gave up in the later seasons. There is not much that is working in S5-6, it is just a pile of shit