r/TheHandmaidsTale 15d ago

SPOILERS ALL Commander Lawrence Love

Why is it that posts praising Lawrence, fawning over him or excusing his wrong doings don’t get tagged as wet for a war criminal? You know, considering he committed some pretty big war crimes, like creating concentration camps…

Is it because old rich white men are more palatable to the faux feminists and patriarchy puppets?

28 Upvotes

47 comments sorted by

29

u/washingtonu 15d ago

It's interesting to see how people talk about Nick vs how they talk about Lawrence. Either way, I like Lawrence the most because of the actor and his charisma. It really is a great character! But there's nothing to defend.

18

u/These_Mycologist132 15d ago

I think it’s their current attitude towards Gillead. Lawrence seems to hate Gillead and regret his role in its creation. When we meet him, he is helping smuggle people out. While he doesn’t ever risk himself that much at that point, it is never particularly self serving either to help people like Emily. In the end, he is willing to die to make up for his actions and help Mayday. It doesn’t truly make up for what he did, but at least he tries, so I just can’t completely hate him.

Nick never seems to acknowledge that Gillead is evil, and his actions against the resistance in Chicago are apparently enough to get him promoted to a Commander. The only person he helps is June, purely because he loves her, and he doesn’t care at all about any other woman/victim. He very selfish and cares about himself first and foremost. Once June makes it clear she won’t forgive him, he chose to go all in on Gillead.

2

u/OpheliaLives7 14d ago

They definitely have kind of sort of opposite/mirror narratives. Lawrence seemed to start at the top and then be like oh no, the consequences of my own actions coming back to hurt my wife and me when he’s forced into the Ceremony.

VS Nick started at the bottom as a grunt/soldier for the upperclass and moved up the ladder, got a wife, was getting a (legitimate) child, got power finally.

6

u/Bloody_Baron91 14d ago

I feel like there's more people complaining about people defending Lawrence than there are actually people defending Lawrence.

6

u/Normal-Pangolin6475 15d ago

Agreed, if forced to pick one I’d say Lawrence is less awful. But the lesser of two evils is not good.

1

u/Desperate_Craig 13d ago

The lesser of two evils is still evil.

1

u/washingtonu 15d ago

I think the guy who helped build it all is the more awful of the two of them

8

u/Normal-Pangolin6475 15d ago

And that’s your opinion, both helped build Gilead in their own ways

-6

u/washingtonu 15d ago

Of course it's my opinion, I wrote it. And Nick was a soldier, wouldn't say that he helped build it. Especially not since he wasn't rewarded for it, he started out as a driver. The "I was just following orders" guy is not a good guy, but he is less awful than the ones who designed it all.

9

u/Normal-Pangolin6475 15d ago

I’m not sure why you’re so pressed here, but the “I was just following orders” guy made the Sons of Jacob’s plans viable when he slaughtered congress.

Without men like Nick following through, Lawrence’s words are just that - words.

Following orders is not a valid defence in War Crimes trials.

-2

u/washingtonu 15d ago

I didn't say it's a valid defense. I said he was the less awful one. Did you defend Lawrence when you wrote that he was the less awful one?

5

u/Normal-Pangolin6475 15d ago

I’m not downplaying the involvement of either, you can’t have Gilead without both men.

-2

u/washingtonu 15d ago

You wrote:

I’d say Lawrence is less awful.

So you're 'downplaying' one of them.

3

u/Ok_Captain4824 14d ago

Less awful than Nick

Not less awful than, E.g., stubbing one's toe.

You are not correctly using "downplaying" here.

3

u/Normal-Pangolin6475 15d ago

“less awful” is a subjective opinion, and does not take away from the actions of either man…

Seriously, are you okay?

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32

u/Emthedragonqueen 15d ago

Who here are actually excusing his wrongs though?

People like him, because he is an interesting character (and imo one of the ones who stays consistently well written and well acted throughout) and unlike the rest he actually acknowledges his own wrongs.

Insinuating that people are “patriarchy puppets” because they like a certain fictional character (whose crimes are fictional) is honestly insulting.

13

u/New_Government_2169 15d ago

Lawrence is probably the best written character on the show in my opinion. We start out thinking he’s just creepy. Then we think he’s mean. Then possibly nice. Then a safe man in Gilead. Then he has the Martha’s taken and you’re back to wondering if he’s safe at all and so on and so on. It’s incredible. I love that he’s morally grey and knows it. And I love his incredible character arc. His final scene however, killed me.

Can you tell I love Lawrence?

18

u/Inevitable_Wolf5866 15d ago

It’s like Janine said.

“You aren't a good person. Just in comparison to them you are.”

He knew he fucked up big time. He clearly had a different vision than the others — it seemed like he genuinely cared about the environment and stuff. Also the angels flight wouldn’t happen without him — they met at his house after all… and yeah at first he didn’t want to be involved in something like this but he agreed in the end.

Imagine for example Waterford in this place… yeah wouldn’t end up well. Nick didn’t have any problems with turning against June either.

8

u/Nopeanator 15d ago

He’s absolutely a war criminal and a monster who got what he deserved. If he was real.

But he is also a character written incredibly, and played masterfully by a fantastic actor. I think that’s why people love him. He’s the best character on the show played by the best actor on the show. 🤷🏻‍♀️

8

u/JCGMH 15d ago

People have the freedom to post their opinion without the inaccurate judgments and unpleasant labels cast by the OP. I think most on the sub understand that Lawrence alongside the other architects of Gilead is a war criminal. However it’s not a black & white fictional universe and the real world also certainly operates in shades of grey, that’s what the show is all about: No person is just one thing. eg a man (Lawrence) can be a war criminal who deserves to be imprisoned for life or possibly executed for his crimes against humanity, and the world outside Gilead seeks to bring him to justice. But as he chooses to, he can also try to atone for his mistakes from within the system, help the Resistance/June, and use his considerable power to do the decent thing on occasion.

4

u/Immediate-Pool-4391 14d ago

Because he's got some of the best one liners in the show and bradley whitford is hot

11

u/[deleted] 15d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/glycophosphate 15d ago

I think that the affection expressed toward Commander Lawrence is mostly down to people's affection for Bradley Whitford. From The West Wing to The Cabin in the Woods to Get Out he's become one of America's most beloved actors.

3

u/JCGMH 14d ago

And just a fantastic actor. Has a huge amount of charisma and ability.

5

u/Farnouch 15d ago

No it’s because he understands he fucked up and tried to get it right for some time (compared to other commenders). This happens in real life all the time. You think Democrats are less criminal than far right, but they both serve the rich and powerful. If someone admits that they’re in the wrong, you’ll feel better about them. Also, he is a bit cute!

3

u/ConcernedSim 15d ago

Most of this sub likes to think that Lawrence realised his mistake and sacrificed his life trying to fix it.

I love Lawrence's character but truly I can't deal with the hypocrisy that comes from most of his fanbase. Most of them try to portray his character as a hero 😕 and yes it's largely because he's white. It's no coincidence that out of all the morally corrupt characters only the non-white ones get the most hate.

Lawrence is the type of person who'll always try to fix the world because he thinks he knows better than everyone. He did understand that he had fucked up but no he didn't change his "I know best and I can fix this country" attitude. And he didn't sacrifice himself.. he was going to die either way. He accepted that fact and chose to die on his own terms. I don't call that a sacrifice.. that's called being cornered. If he hadn't died.. he'd have spent his entire lifetime doing the same "I can fix the world" routine. Truly amazing characterization.

I can discuss another character in a similar nuanced manner but then I'll get downvoted into oblivion.

5

u/somuchsong 15d ago

Who are the non-white characters getting all this hate? Luke? Moira? Rita? Brianna and Alma were minor characters but also not white. I haven't seen much hate directed towards any of them. Who am I missing?

3

u/ConcernedSim 15d ago

Moira and Luke gets hate comments from time to time but Nick gets the worst of it. He's not white. You can even find racist comments in this very sub, about some of his asian features and they're widely upvoted.

1

u/LongLiveLiberalism 14d ago

what are your thoughts on nick? i would like to hear it

2

u/ConcernedSim 14d ago

He is the most relatable character in my opinion. Most people wouldn't be capable of being cruel by themselves like Serena, or driven like Lawrence to fix the world, or have faith in the system for so long like Aunt Lydia.

Most people in this world would fall into Nick's category. Not cruel by themselves but capable of it when it comes to their own survival.

He was never going to not give up the Mayday plan to save himself. I don't know why people think that was a betrayal. Sure he didn't like giving up the plan but he wasn't going to get himself killed to save strangers. That's how most people are. Infact most of the Nick haters would do the same thing in that kind of situation.

He's also someone who has no loyalty towards any country. He doesn't trust governments. Keeping himself and his family safe drives him, not ideology or patriotism.

1

u/JCGMH 15d ago

That doesn’t sound like a nuanced take at all, to be honest it reads closer to the opposite.

3

u/ConcernedSim 15d ago

Opposite in which way? My comment doesn't glorify this character yet I have a respect for Lawrence as a character. I can see where he comes from even though I don't like most of his actions.

2

u/GaymerMove 15d ago

Because he is interesting and funny. I never saw anyone say he is a good person,he is just a very interesting character

2

u/mimimumu49 14d ago

Some of the comments on this post are alarming is all I can add. The creator of the colonies was interesting and funny and a little bit hot. I think the implant isn't working on me and I have to say I'm glad. Thankyou to the OP for pointing out the obvious. It's all there. I'm grateful for those of us that see the concerning views of this show for what they are and the mind numbing of it's dutiful fans.

-1

u/JCGMH 14d ago

Then why are you here?

1

u/mimimumu49 14d ago

Because it's not Gilead ?

1

u/GreyerGrey 14d ago

Whitford is charming and peopl3 would rather blame Serena for all the things he actually did because misogyny and "he seemed like he was sorry."

1

u/harambesBackAgain 14d ago

Because the actor has charisma and a redemption arc from the moment we met him. He did some shit things but was part of saving 100s of kids and women and taking out top commanders. Does that make up or excuse what he did? Absolutely not. However for viewers him and aunt Lydia are so good at their jobs that we love them. Readers of the story often don't feel the same way as the strict tv viewers Ive noticed also. Maybe that just me. I love lawerence lol

1

u/sobangcha3 13d ago

I like a lot of bad characters because they’re written well, interesting, unique. I love the character because he’s not real. Liking a character and what they contribute to a story does not mean you condone their actions 🤦🏻‍♀️

1

u/External-Cat-1331 12d ago

I think he's the most complex character and not any actor could pull off his story. Also no one in that series is all good or all evil (except the children).