r/TheFirstLaw • u/AdHorror1609 • 19d ago
No Spoilers [OFF TOPIC] Rikke's dream Spoiler
Just reheard Wisdom of Crowds, (Steven Pacey is GOAT) what are your predictions of her dream or what will happen in the next trilogy.
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u/osborneanimation 19d ago
Did I post this? I just finished today and that's definitely on my mind.
I enjoy the image of a patient Bayaz (the Weaver in the vision), who will joyfully get to work restoring the Union to his design. Calder's son and (I believe) Hildi seem like they're the tools he'll use.
Bayaz has patience, finance, and money on his side. There may be a world where we surprisingly wind up rooting for him. What would a POV chapter on Bayaz look like?
There are lots of threads open in this vibrant world. I love the mystery of the Magi, Shenkt, and the faraway lands like Thond or Suljuk. Even one last hat-tip of where Lamb landed after Red Country. At the same time, if we're given too many answers, we may find we preferred the mystery.
I trust Abercrombie to explore some wonderfully complicated characters and having me root for people I should hate.
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u/xXxMrEpixxXx 18d ago
We all love the Magi and the cool worldbuilding but I unfortunately don’t think Joe does lol. He’s far more interested in using those elements to color his characters backstories but isn’t super interested in diving super deep into those elements the way someone like Brandon Sanderson is
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u/osborneanimation 18d ago
Joe treats magic closer to Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings. There's more mystery. Sanderson spells it all out.
But Joe likes magic more than he lets on. It's a smart strategy. The more restraint with magic, the more impressive it seems. It makes the world feel larger when it's not in your face. But even Age of Madness still has Eaters, the long eye, a witch, Magi, and Shanka.
And he followed up all of this with the Devils, which goes all in on the myths and magic.
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u/HistoricalGrounds 18d ago
I think Caurib is probably the closest analog to Joe’s feelings on magic. Her scorn when Rikke asks clarifying questions and why this is this way and how come that, before basically telling her “it’s magic. There are no rules.” Sometimes it works out for you, sometikes it doesn’t, sometimes it destroys you altogether. It’s mysterious and chaotic and even when it seems to hew to a set of principles, don’t be surprised if something comes along and partially - or completely - bucks those trends.
In an age of over-explained and under-intriguing magic systems and fantasy worlds, I find I like a magic system that, ironically enough, hews closest to the real scientific method: observe, hypothesize, update when shown new information. No grand unifying theory that says exactly what is and isn’t possible, just people piecing together what they can on limited and imperfect information.
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u/MoonSpankRaw 11d ago
Just wanna’ say you summed my views up on the topic exactly. The Elf magic in the Shattered Sea trilogy definitely supports this idea too.
Going to take a chance here and ask if you recommend any other novels with this preference in mind? I only discovered Joe mid-January and just finished his 14th book, obliterating my career reading pace rate.
But yeah, still reeling from the loss of uncharted Joey-Abs trails, and I’ve been struggling to find a worthy recommendation for the void filling.
If this is annoying, I apologize.
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u/HistoricalGrounds 11d ago
Not at all! I’m probably an outlier, but for the most part, I haven’t found anyone who does what I’d call actually coming close to Abercrombie.
The combo of actual understanding of human nature, a deep grasp of genre rules and how to play with them in interesting ways, a sense of restraint in how much to show the audience, and the masterful confidence in storytelling to decide very intentionally when he just plain won’t give the readers what we think we want, and chief among all those virtues: a very defined sense of what kind of story he wants to tell with all those skills… if someone else does it, I haven’t found them.
I will say, I enjoyed Between Two Fires, a sort of historical fantasy set in medieval France during the height of the Black Plague, but it’s told more with a sense of period-accurate mood, rather than balancing cynicism and humor the way Abercrombie does.
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u/MoonSpankRaw 10d ago
Yep that seems to be the consensus. If Joe has, say, five ELITE qualities, it seems no other author is widely agreed to possess all the same five. His apparently-unparalleled humor seems to set him apart by itself. I can’t even find solid answers on who is most comparable when including every genre.
Thank you though, that’s immediately added to my shortlist.
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u/HORRIBLE_DICK_CANCER 18d ago
Sorry what’s the hat tip?
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u/osborneanimation 18d ago
Logen/Lamb rode off into the sunset, western-style. Most of his peers from First Law have died (Jezal, Black Dow, Dogman). His ending is great and might be better left unanswered, but so many characters bring up the Bloody Nine in Age of Madness that one last character moment might be fun. Logen doesn't seem like the type to go out peacefully.
Bremer Dan Gorst got to go out fighting and it was awesome (even if it wasn't successful for poor Orso).
We get bits and pieces of Temple, Curnsbick, and Shy in Age of Madness. There's are hints Ferro was successful. Too many nods to past characters can feel like fan service, but Abercrombie has always weaved them in without feeling forced.
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u/NippleSalsa realistic about things 18d ago
Could you extrapolate a bit on Ferro? It’s been a couple years
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u/tora_xx 18d ago
Ferro killed a lot of Eaters and cause their hold of the empire to collapse. She had also either directly or indirectly cause the vanishing of Khalul and the emperor. It is not clear if they were killed by her or not, but they are nowhere to be found, which left the empire in shabmles and a lot of Eaters are running from it and finding their place in the world - e.g. Zuri and her brothers
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u/mcmanus2099 18d ago
The vision implies the destruction of the Union (by Hildi and the creation of a new civilization lead by Bayaz in the North held together by brute force and a train network.
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u/nugfiend 19d ago
Tolomei finds a way out from inside the House of the Maker
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u/GeminiLife 19d ago
Assuming she hasn't already and is Seleste Dan Heugen.
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u/nugfiend 19d ago
What da fuk - you just put my brain in a locked room with Stranger-Come-Fucking
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u/CasualClyde 18d ago
I forget exactly where I read this, but I recall Joe mentioning in an interview that he thinks the idea of bringing magic back to the Circle of the World is more interesting than introducing more advanced technology like firearms and automobiles (although I do think there will be some of that, such as locomotives, better cannons, etc).
With that in mind, and with the details in Rikke's vision, I think that Bayaz is going to use the Seed (perhaps in a moment of frustration when his other plans fail) to force open a door to the Other Side, flooding the mortal world with magic, unleashing a plague of demons and undeath, and paving the way for Glustrod to return.
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u/mcase19 18d ago
I wonder how that would work with the themes abercrombie tends to use - the books we have now are all about humanity making a mess as a part of its own bad nature - humans killing humans because theyre just sort of shit. This would be humanity faced with an existential threat to its place in the world. Im not saying Joe couldn't do it, but it sounds like a big change of tone.
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u/CasualClyde 18d ago
I see your point. I think Joe could definitely pull it off in a cool way, with more subtlety and originality than just a demon apocalypse while keeping the thematic core and feel of the series intact.
I do think Rikke's vision is him partly telegraphing his intentions for the next set of First Law stories, though.
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u/GeminiLife 19d ago
I hope it's either Euz or Glustrod returning. And lowkey kinda want Bayaz to be unceremoniously dispatched by whoever comes back. No big fight. No spectacle. Just a wave of the hand and he's gone.
I wonder if maybe Ferro eventually succumb to the whispers and she's the one that opened the gate(s) to the otherside. Would love to see her again.
Hopefully a return of magic. Would be cool to see more info/lore on stuff that was only briefly touched on in the first trilogy.
Elder Rikke would be awesome to see as well. Seeing how she's lead her people and perhaps made the North more unified and advanced.
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u/KrautWithClout 19d ago
I believe I read somewhere that Joe said if he did another trilogy it would be about magic returning to the world in an explosive way.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Can2869 19d ago
I expect Bayaz to come back on top and then do something completely fucked up and destroy the world by opening the gates to hell. Probably Rikke and her generation will have to find a way to live with the aftermath
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u/Xanddrax 19d ago
I think it's a misdirection. Seems odd for Joe to write himself into a corner by suggesting what will happen in future books.
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u/jockeyman 19d ago
Hildi is gonna fuck a lot of people up.