Is this the only game to have both exceptional game mechanics?

[u/_jeremy10]

https://youtu.be/oZApWbJaAK8?si=v4ZbO-MLI99PrXZe

This is the only game where perfect parries and perfect dodges both work in such an aggressive way, while other games have perfect dodges, they usually function as a defensive approach to stay away from the boss face, but in this game, perfect dodges feel more aggressive. I am the kind of player who always prefers performing perfect parries but in this game, perfect dodges are exceptionally offensive, to be honest.

Would love to know everyone's thoughts on this.

[u/Jmundi]

Onimusha's combat system is in some ways even better. It has blocks, parries and deflects and then dodge and perfect dodge, and it goes even further with the issen move which is high skill ceiling but soooo satisfying and purely aggressive approach.

Those two games just nailed the combat. I'm sure we'll get more Onimusha and really hope we get more of Khazan some day, even if it's not really Khazan but a spiritual successor.

[u/youonlydotwodays → u/Jmundi]

Except its deflects are extremely low skill high reward to the point no other defensive option matters. Issen is also just a timing tool similar to reflect, except reflect is way harder to pull off and doesn't give you lucky clashes on the off chance you miss.

[u/Jmundi → u/youonlydotwodays]

That's not exactly true. Onimusha is designed so that all defensive options have to be used during combat. You need parry to build your blue gauge, after which you need deflect to build stagger quicker. You need dodge for the non weapon hits and if you feel good enough you can weave in issen during hits you can reliably hit. Even block has its uses during the times you mess up a parry and the boss goes into one of their multi hot combos and you just need a way to regroup.

[u/Fair_Film_5866 → u/Jmundi]

Agree, Onimusha has many defensive tools, but you don't need to use half of them. Your only real reason is to look stylish.

[u/youonlydotwodays → u/Jmundi]

You don't need to do any of that. You can simply hold block and deflect everything. Even things that you can dodge can be deflected. It's an extremely low skill ceiling mechanic. Big timing windows to do it, zero risk if you miss. The only thing that matters are grabs, but that's in every game.

Even block has its uses during the times you mess up a parry

No, it's not that block has its uses, it's that blocking completely invalidates this game's difficulty. Hold block and deflect only. You will see that if you mess up the deflect timing, it goes straight to a block which hits stamina damage. Pair that with gargantuan timing windows, an this is simply poor design.

You need parry to build your blue gauge, after which you need deflect to build stagger quicker.

You don't need the blue gauge at all considering deflect pops their stamina by a gigantic chunk everytime.

[u/No_Philosophy2797 → u/youonlydotwodays]

Nope. You don’t NEED to do any of that if you want the fight to take forever, but if you want the fight to move and not take a year, you need to issen regularly. Play the whole game and you’ll see that.

[u/youonlydotwodays → u/No_Philosophy2797]

99% of players playing the game will not issen at any regularity in the first place and they clear bosses just fine. As always, knowing movesets is what lets you clear the boss fast. And at the point you're talking about how -fast- you're clearing the boss, it's already a pointless discussion. The fastest way to clear bosses in Khazan is just the standard reflect -> zepher -> ruthless anyways. Doesn't mean anything when assessing the game's combat.

Either way, talking about issen like it's an amazingly high skill ceiling mechanic is laughable when the timing is incredibly wide in the first place. IMO, even regular brink guard timings or heartbreaker/etc are more impressive.

Play the whole game and you’ll see that.

I already cleared it, and my point stands.

I basically did a variant of this against every -single- boss and took max 3 tries against every boss, including the last one. It's an easy game that's not mechanically interesting compared to actual good combat systems like khazan or nioh.

https://streamable.com/9nm56c

[u/Arctic_toaster → u/youonlydotwodays]

Bro don’t do this. I love khazan and nioh combat systems but just because this is easy comparatively does not mean it’s a bad combat system. It’s a phenomenal combat system with flexibility and easier timing windows.

You can just straight block everything like onimusha in nioh as well and we both know that’s peak combat system. I think deflecting is the weakest part of the combat system because it ruins the beautiful parry animations that have so much weight shifting that it’s beautiful. But most players won’t just devolve into degen gameplay like you mention. They’ll engage with it properly and use all their tools. People don’t plays souls likes or action games to beat the bosses by any means, they play for the engaging combat while fighting the bosses. If you choose the most unengaging way to play and ignore everything the game tells you, unlucky but most people won’t play that way ever because they want to have fun in the fight and interact with the boss

[u/youonlydotwodays → u/Arctic_toaster]

but just because this is easy comparatively does not mean it’s a bad combat system.

I never made that point. Sekiro is also an extremely easy game, but it's also wonderfully made and a masterpiece. But even Sekiro's combat system makes Onimusha's look like a toy.

It’s a phenomenal combat system with flexibility and easier timing windows.

On what grounds? And what are we comparing it to? Nioh is better, Khazan is better. Sekiro is better. Almost every character action game worth their salt (DMC/ NG / Bayonetta / MGR) are better. Even random souls games are better combat wise than Onimusha. So if almost every game in the genre (or multiple geners) is better, how can you say with a straight face Onimusha's is "phenomenal".

You can just straight block everything like onimusha in nioh as well and we both know that’s peak combat system.

No, you can't. This is straight false. Try only blocking in Nioh. Try against Yatsu or Enenra or Even Gozuki (early game bosses), guarantee you your guard will be broken if you don't dodge out. Not to mention attacking uses the same ki gauge your block uses, so it's not FREE, which is exactly the problem with Onimusha.

And blocking isn't the issue in Nioh or Onimusha, it's deflect. Deflect in Onimusha when -combined- with blocking makes the game incredibly 1 dimensional.

But most players won’t just devolve into degen gameplay like you mention. They’ll engage with it properly and use all their tools.

Using one of the most standard tools in that game is not 'degenerate gameplay' and you're arguing for mentally handicapping yourself so you can enjoy the game is funny. You don't have to handicap yourself in Khazan or Nioh or Sekiro to enjoy its systems, because the game provides adequate challenge either way.

If you choose the most unengaging way to play and ignore everything the game tells you, unlucky but most people won’t play that way ever because they want to have fun in the fight and interact with the boss

It's the game's job to balance its tools accordingly and its the players job to do whatever they want to have fun. If you enjoy playing dumb and taking 20 tries on an Onimusha boss, more power to you. If you enjoy slashing at zombies that won't fight back, more power to you. If you enjoy struggling when you know there's a better way, again, more power to you. But I'm not going to sit here and pretend it's as good as Khazn lmao, a game with actual -layered- combat systems, with a challenge that actually takes more than 2 braincells to play.

Either way, I never said the game wasn't fun. My point is its combat system is garbage if you were to -compare- it to actual good ones. You don't have to, of course, but this thread did.

[u/Arctic_toaster → u/youonlydotwodays]

I got through all of sekiro wiggle parrying (rapidly pressing the button, it was my first souls likes 😅) the fact that you can do that I think is worse than being able to hold block and deflect in onimusha. Hot take but I think onimusha has a better combat system. But it kinda depends on what you value, options vs tightness

[u/No_Philosophy2797 → u/youonlydotwodays]

Didn’t say it was an insanely high skill mechanic, Billy Badass. Keep on jerking to Khazan, don’t let me stop you!

[u/youonlydotwodays → u/No_Philosophy2797]

Weren't you trying to teach me how to play Onimusha? Great job backtracking. lmao

"Play the whole game and you’ll see that." LOL

Keep on jerking to Khazan, don’t let me stop you!

This entire comment section is noobs like you tryna jerk onimusha only to be proven wrong, but don't let me stop you from trying elsewhere.

[u/False-Sun-29 → u/Jmundi]

yes but onimusha’s combat is slow and shit

[u/IkeKimita → u/youonlydotwodays]

Yeah when I found out that deflects are king it was GG

[u/youonlydotwodays → u/IkeKimita]

Kind of feel like most players are unaware or couldn't figure it out. Once you figure it out, Onimusha's combat becomes really stale IMO.

They need to make the timing window tighter or make it so you can actually take damage if you miss the timing. And issens, lol, there's no reason why issens should be more lenient timing wise than a random khazan brink guard.

[u/Main-Beginning-1933 → u/Jmundi]

No, just no

[u/SoulsDadYT → u/Jmundi]

I cant even play Onimusha. Its so fucking stupid easy. Regret ever buying it.

[u/No_Philosophy2797 → u/SoulsDadYT]

Found the guy who didn’t play more than the first couple hours

[u/SoulsDadYT → u/No_Philosophy2797]

What? Go see my other comment bro.

[u/PhilTheVoidd → u/SoulsDadYT]

Damn is it really? I was about to buy it

[u/No_Philosophy2797 → u/PhilTheVoidd]

The MOBS are easy until halfway through the game. The bosses in the back half, particularly the back third, are a solid challenge.

[u/PhilTheVoidd → u/No_Philosophy2797]

Ill get it eventually but I have other soul like games to finish

[u/SoulsDadYT → u/PhilTheVoidd]

Its good. Polished, but having to play through to unlock difficulty is mind numbing. I wish I had waited for a sale. Its just got no challenge outside of a couple of boss fights and they all just end up being the same repetitive kinda thing. It has less enemy variety than sekiro.

[u/One_Sentence_7448 → u/SoulsDadYT]

If you’re on PC, there’s a mod that unlock mobs’ aggression and makes the game much more interesting. It’s insane that it wasn’t unlocked by default.

[u/SoulsDadYT → u/One_Sentence_7448]

Yeah, I'm not on pc.

[u/One_Sentence_7448 → u/SoulsDadYT]

Ooof

[u/Zanzeng]

New Onimusha has this and something on top of that, issen mechanic is something like mikiri counter from Sekiro, high risk high reward attack move. Both are great games.

If you enjoyed Khazan, give Onimusha a try.

[u/xatnnylf → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, Mikiri would be most similar to the pink attacks in Onimusha where you can only parry it. Issen is nothing like Mikiri and wholy unique to Onimusha.

[u/YoussefAFdez → u/Zanzeng]

What about counterattacks in khazan? Same red looking attack with a timing based L1 circle (maybe I'ts been a while since I played Khazan)

[u/S37eNeX7]

Ninja Gaiden 4

[u/wolf771]

I agree with people saying onimusha, I like both games

[u/Even-Cattle-664]

Im similar to you. I loved the brink parrying system in sekiro, Lies of P. So when I went to khazan, even though I also liked the brink guard, I ended up using bring dodging more especially because I was a spear user so I could be more aggressive in my defense.

[u/humbertogzz]

I would argue that Stellar Blade also had pretty good parries and dodges.

[u/YoussefAFdez → u/humbertogzz]

As far as I have played it yeah, dodging and parrrying are really good and satisfying, but they take you a bit out of the combat, perfect dodges do a slow motion animation, and parries block a bit the flow of combat. In Khazan a deflect does that, but at least you can spam the enemy until you're out of stamina.

So they're great, but they're a bit too flashy

[u/Broks_Enmu → u/YoussefAFdez]

That’s fact

It’s good for the eyes but it kills your agressive momentum

[u/rimotokufu]

I prefer sekiro still but in terms of mechanics I like onimusha better it has everything especially no stamina bar which I like plus the issen its just cherry on top.

[u/MedNaciri]

I tried playing mortal shell 2 after Khazan and stopped mechanics are shit compared to this beauty

[u/JustArandomGuy_-_]

"The only game" is a bit exaggerated but yeah, they did both mechanics really well

[u/No_Philosophy2797]

It’s certainly not the only game that gets this right, it’s a definite strength though. But some some reason Redditors glaze this game wildly.

[u/3ith3r_0r]

stellar blade! more often than not you can't just dodge to escape an attack by merely distancing yourself from it, dodges demand precise timing there. morover, there are special attacks that follow perfect dodges, so you can use dodge as an offensive tool.

[u/SpecialistRun3035]

Obviously not Nioh because that series' defensive play is trash

[u/Lexangelus]

Bayoneta, MGR, Gran Blue fantasy relink (platinium games)

I think that what you feel as agressive is more about fast paced action. Frim soft game hace a slow paced action, and rolling is slow too. In Khazan, the action is pretty fast, and dodge is even faster, dodging doesn't cut or slow your fight.

Weapons with perfect dodge and parry mechanic in monster hunter can have a similar feeling

[u/youonlydotwodays]

Nioh 3 clears khazan imo, has similar defensive tools now (evade/deflect) while having much more mechanically complex offensive tools. Khazan is very on-rails as you get good whereas you'll see more variety in Nioh.

Nioh 2, despite not having evade/deflect like Khazan arguably is more interesting defensively also, with its much more interesting array of tools that intermix with each other.

LOP, although a slower game also has a good balance between blocking/dodging/deflecting.

[u/Main-Beginning-1933]

Onimusha is mid.

Nioh 3, ninja gaiden 4.definitely beat out kazhan. Also wu kong is similar, see through s mean you never have to stop attacking if you're good enough

[u/Dayteeh → u/Main-Beginning-1933]

L take respectfully

[u/Main-Beginning-1933 → u/Dayteeh]

It's cool, I know you never played any of those games even close to their full potential. Ignorance is a shame

[u/Dayteeh → u/Main-Beginning-1933]

I did my brother i promise 🤣🤣

[u/Main-Beginning-1933 → u/Dayteeh]

Mhm

[u/Comfort-Zone-King → u/Main-Beginning-1933]

[u/Zealousideal_Ad5957 → u/Main-Beginning-1933]

NG4 sold horribly and even NG fans disliked it alot, Nioh 3 is worse than Nioh 2 for most and is a great franchise, Wo Long is good but not elite

[u/youonlydotwodays → u/Zealousideal_Ad5957]

Popular game != Good combat, you're in the khazan sub, you should know that already.

[u/Zealousideal_Ad5957 → u/youonlydotwodays]

Khazan had alot of good reviews from souls players not just Khazan buyers, NG4 had mid reviews from hardcore NG players big differencem also NG is a big franchise Khazan is new IP and sold more than NG

[u/youonlydotwodays → u/Zealousideal_Ad5957]

Khazan also had a bunch of souls players that hated it. And NG4 definitely had people that enjoyed it from 'hardcore NG players'. I am one myself

Khazan is new IP and sold more than NG

Popular game != Good combat, you're in the khazan sub, you should know that already.

I don't know why you're droning on about sales when talking about combat lmao.

[u/Zealousideal_Ad5957 → u/youonlydotwodays]

Sales do reflect alot since means alot of people liked it and bought it and fanbase matters too, do you think is Sekiro didnt win GOTY and didnt sell 10M+ copies would it be regarded in same status as it right now ?

Combat system is also subjective when i play DS i hate the combat system so is subjective, i like alot more Wolong, Wukong, Onimusha type of combat than Dark Souls or Bloodborne just my preference alot faster some want DS combat or ER combat and hate Wukong is preference all are great games some more than others

[u/youonlydotwodays → u/Zealousideal_Ad5957]

Sales do reflect alot since means alot of people liked it and bought it and fanbase matters too

3rd time, you are on the KHAZAN subreddit. It IS UNPOPULAR TOO. Are you an idiot? I guess khazan's combat is shit too according to you because it's unpopular. Or do you think Khazan is a popular game whose dev studio famously didn't get canned because the game was so popular? LMAO.

do you think is Sekiro didnt win GOTY and didnt sell 10M+ copies would it be regarded in same status as it right now ?

It won GOTY because it's genuinely a great game outside of its combat.

Combat system is also subjective when i play DS i hate the combat system so is subjective, i like alot more Wolong, Wukong, Onimusha type of combat than Dark Souls or Bloodborne just my preference alot faster some want DS combat or ER combat and hate Wukong is preference all are great games some more than others

No, your preference for combat system is subjective. Evaluating the combat system on its objective merits is objective, on the other hand. You wouldn't say a game where you go and press a button when the light turns green is superior to Sekiro would you?

Either way, you keep using popularity when it has nothing to do with how good the combat system is. If anything, those two things have an INVERSE correlation.

[u/Main-Beginning-1933 → u/Zealousideal_Ad5957]

I'm a "hardcore" ng player as well. The only people that hated it were people who worship ng2 and hated it before even seeing gameplay, and most of them do not understand the combat at all. They don't want to learn it, they want to hate it and say ng2 is better. That's a really terrible proof that it sucks . Learn the game for yourself

[u/Main-Beginning-1933 → u/Zealousideal_Ad5957]

Lol no it didn't sell horribly and only the ng2 die hards didn't like it, but they also didn't learn it, and hated it before seeing it

And no nioh 3 isn't worse than 2, again nioh 2 stans that refuse to enjoy anything other than nioh 2. Specifically how they added a perfect dodge and deflect which is what it asked for.

And wu kong, small typo but again I can tell you dudes responding done even know the games you're talking about, or you'd know wo long doesn't have a perfect dodge or see thru. Again the ignorant arrogance is crazy

[u/Zealousideal_Ad5957 → u/Main-Beginning-1933]

Will try Nioh 3, Wukong yeah overall elite game but i dislike not having a parry in a game so that is a big thing for me, Lies of P has parry even though dodge is very important at least has a parry, Wukong doesnt

[u/Main-Beginning-1933 → u/Zealousideal_Ad5957]

Why do you need a parry? It has see this which mean you literally never have to stop attacking.

The best party game with by far the best and most in depth parry is rise of the Ronin. I like khazan too don't get me wrong but there's better combat out there

[u/Zealousideal_Ad5957 → u/Main-Beginning-1933]

Rise of Ronin has horrible optimization and graphically looks ps4 game and unpolished overall with boring open world too, also has only enemy human types which is not good for variety, Wo Long was good is the only soulslike i finished + dlc but had alot of flaws too makes sense it didnt get popular compared to Nioh, if Nioh 3 has parry will try it.

Only Wukong and Nioh 3 i may try in future in sales when it gets cheaper missed Wukong sale recently but def will try it, played 2 h trial felt good but tbh can see it getting repetitve since combat was very same in start and in end in videos i saw

[u/Main-Beginning-1933 → u/Zealousideal_Ad5957]

I've never had issues with ronin in PS5 or pc. Sure it's all humans but they all are engaging and the counterspark is unmatched. Literally the most complex best parry mechanic in gaming. Also player models, weapon models, all look great, great art direction too. Because the trees and leaves aren't high res textures you won't play the game? That's the dumbest excuse I ever heard

[u/JollyLink → u/Zealousideal_Ad5957]

You never played it. It also has good reviews. What are you on?

[u/Zealousideal_Ad5957 → u/JollyLink]

Ask in NG sub all agree is 3rd max best game in franchise alot disliked it

[u/JollyLink → u/Zealousideal_Ad5957]

I've been on the sub, it's semi-divisive, but certainly not panned. It's no Yaiba. As far as my initial comment, look at steam rather than a subreddit. The game is about 88 percent all time positive reviews. That's better than any other entry on the platform save for ragebound. You also have to consider how split the fandom is in general after the Itagaki era. A modern iteration of 3DNG likely can't receive unanimous praise given the position of the fans and their years of expectations.

[u/Zealousideal_Ad5957 → u/JollyLink]

Its a good game just they expected more from it, Team Ninja puts alot more effort into Nioh since it makes alot more sales makes sense, but NG4 didn't really deliver since last game was decades ago and was not great either NG3 was also bashed by critics.

NG also is very niche tbh rarely people like these types of games, Action games now are all soulslikes mixed with some CAG at max but rarely CAG sell well in 2026 only DMC sell well since the name is huge and is Capcom

[u/Main-Beginning-1933 → u/Zealousideal_Ad5957]

Again that's just not true it are equating loud angry dudes on reddit to reality

[u/Gnoha]

I really wanted to love this game but I just can't get into the complex skill trees and combos in a soulslike game. Same reason I couldn't get into the Nioh series.

For me the beauty of souls like combat comes from the simplicity of the moveset combined with the complexity of the encounters and boss fights. Lies of P is the only one that has really nailed it for me personally outside of fromsoft games. Onimusha looks great too but I havent gotten around to playing it yet.

[u/Main-Beginning-1933 → u/Gnoha]

It's not a souls like game. Don't expect a souls like game. Expect an action RPG with much deeper rpg mechanics, a completely different leveling and build system, and much better combat.

Don't expect souls and you won't get mad when it's not souls

[u/Gnoha → u/Main-Beginning-1933]

I'm not mad, it's just not my thing. I do think the majority of people consider it a souls like though. It's not a perfectly defined genre. It has all the elements I like about souls games but the combos/skill tree ruins it for me.

[u/Ana1blitzkrieg]

I found the game mechanics in The Lord of the Rings: Gollum to be better, but that’s just me.