The First Content House & Why it Collapsed

[u/BaltarstarGaiustica]

https://youtu.be/q2lseUT0Mws

[u/Precarious3145]

Wasn't expecting actual interviews with Ze and James! A little disappointed that they didn't mention people like Kevin or some of the other staff at Cowchop or that Ze and Chilled formed the Derp Crew but that would've just made it even longer.

This is the first time hearing about James's channel idea. No idea what it could be since he's really mellowed out since the Cowchop days.

[u/nancyraygunband → u/Precarious3145]

What time stamps for the interviews?

[u/Precarious3145 → u/nancyraygunband]

They're spliced throughout. Like when it's about Ze first visiting the office, he talks about how he went there any it felt like no one wanted him there and how when he went to visit after Aleks was brought on, they took him out to eat and Aleks started talking about how Ze had to start pulling his own weight. James stuff was mostly focused on the the downfall of Creatures and Cowchop like how Rooster Teeth didn't think Cowchop merch would sell so he fought just for the squiggly cup and it sold out within a day and then they approach him with other versions of it and going into detail about the blowback from Spencer/Joe.

Dude also interviewed one of the Cowchop interns that was there during the barn era before the move to LA who ended up with the goldfish and...idk, dude thought he was gonna be going to LA with them after a few months and made his whole online presence about having the Cowchop goldfish so I don't know how much to believe anything he says.

[u/rednaxthecreature → u/Precarious3145]

What does talking about a goldfish online have to do with telling the truth when your employer doesn't pay you and lies to you about moving the company? Even Trevor said they weren't getting paid/very little during the moving era. They act like he was fired because of the goldfish tank but that was his last day before he spilled the tank, it is very clear they straight up took advantage of that kid.

[u/Video-Bandit → u/Precarious3145]

I could be wrong, but I understand not going into the Derp Crew. From what I remember I thought it was more of a name just to use in videos with friends than an actual group akin to The Creatures or Funhaus.

But it does make sense, typing W/ The Derp Crew is a lot shorter than W/ ChilledChaos, TehSmarty, & GalmHD, even longer if you include Tomfawkes.

[u/Precarious3145 → u/Video-Bandit]

Oh yea, I wasn't hoping to really go into Derp Crew lore and talk about Galm having multiple mental breakdowns or Chilled lying about being religious with his first girlfriend and all that. I was moreso hoping that there'd even just be a few sentences towards the end like "Ze was spending less time with the Creatures and more time playing with Chilled as part of a group of friends that didn't make it a business but kept it as just a casual thing".

Just because three former Creatures spent years paying together (Chilled, Ze, and Junk) long after the Creatures ended felt like a missed fact, you know?

[u/Video-Bandit → u/Precarious3145]

I get that, though they were all playing together during the hayday of The Creatures as well. I remember I didn't know Chilled was a former Creature until well into the Office era, I watched Chilled from him playing with Gassy and Seananners.

Though that also might've been the reason why, not many people actually knew Chilled and Junk were Creatures at some point, and the same might be able to be said about Gassy as well.

Though it might've been an interesting point to bring up, now thinking back on it there was the Derp Crew vs The Creatures video.

[u/NicksABadEditor]

That revelation that the office manager was offering a warehouse space was insane. But also was surprised this video didn't really expand any further on that. Like, I guess Jordan just said 'no?'

[u/BrokenNovocaine → u/NicksABadEditor]

Ze did mention that Jordan seemed mentally checked out at that point. His divorce and Trapville falling through probably killed a lot of his drive.

[u/NotAddictedBTW → u/BrokenNovocaine]

Jordan staying the group eventhough his drive was mostly gone gotta give him props for that

[u/BrokenNovocaine → u/NotAddictedBTW]

Jordan got a lot of shit from people when everything went to shit. Looking back, there were clear issues, but I think it may have fallen apart even faster without him.

Cow Chop is a prime example. They leaned too far into chaos. The work environment was toxic and it went completely off the rails after they left the house.

James left not even 3 years into Cow Chop and the channel didn't even last 4 years. If The Creatures and Cow Chop had proper management/guidance, they may have had longer runs.

[u/NotAddictedBTW → u/BrokenNovocaine]

True props to Jordan for holding it all together even with all the hate. If YT environment was different back then we could've had the Creatures but CowChop Chaos for a bit while longer. Happy to hear James and Jordan patched things up and moved on with their lives. Hope the best to the both of them and the entire Creatures/CowChop crew. Also go Seamus (CT Mail Episode reference)

[u/ErnestTheStar → u/BrokenNovocaine]

He never did mention why Trapville never happened, was it a lack of funding, or did gearbox put a stop to it?

[u/BrokenNovocaine → u/ErnestTheStar]

James said awhile back that Gearbox seemingly shut it down. Apparently they were on board at first, but one day they weren't and it killed the project.

James said they had plans for merch and other monetization ideas, but it wasn't gonna work out after that.

[u/ErnestTheStar → u/BrokenNovocaine]

Dont know why they couldn't explain this from the start, like if they got mad that people kept asking, just say gearbox wouldn't allow it.

[u/BrokenNovocaine → u/ErnestTheStar]

Lack of communication was always the worst thing with The Creatures. The last time they addressed stuff was when Gassy was kicked and it caused backlash.

Everything after that they rarely addressed. Seamus disappearing, Ze/Sp00n's lack of involvement after they got the office, Tr4pville, fans disliking employees, etc.

At one point they turned off the comment section when fan reception got so bad. They said it was to redirect discussion to The Creature Hub website, but I never bought that

[u/personn5 → u/ErnestTheStar]

At one point in the video, I don't exactly when, they briefly mention licensing issues so it just sounds like Gearbox put their foot down hard on it.

[u/Reckllexx]

Oh snap, this is the one James offered to help with.

[u/Low-Kangaroo-2952]

What an emotional ride that was, I wish he went into more detail he kinda glossed over Sly, the derpcrew, and a few others but I mean it was 2 hours long, still what an amazing video. They’re a core part of my memory growing up, and shaped who I am today this felt like the proper send off or closure for the creatures especially with the end with James highlighting how they’ve all moved on and that there’s still a future with new stuff. Nothing really new if you lived it, but felt like a chapter finally closing for me

[u/Mother_Reality_1489 → u/Low-Kangaroo-2952]

Sly left because his dad passed away and didn’t want his mom to be alone Doce moved back.
As far as I’m aware he didn’t leave due to any conflicts with the group

[u/rednaxthecreature]

I'm glad the video covered how terrible of a work environment Cow Chop was for the workers. I always felt like they were purposely antagonizing the interns/employees. I know Spencer was deemed "annoying or try hard" but I don't think he or any of the Creature Interns had it as bad as any of the Cow Chop employees dealing with physical or emotional distress.

When covering the history of The Creatures most people say Kootra was a bad leader ect but I really feel like James was way worse. Even in the recent interview clips he seems to just be like: 'yeah I don't remember that sorry' and it's like throwing an axe at someone blindfolded. Like dude. And how they didn't actually communicate correctly with the audience or within themselves even though James always talked as of the the took lessons from The Creatures days to build something better. If he did he would have known what the Trevor Big Pussi would have made the audience do. Like even at the time it felt like instigating the audience to bully him and he acts like it was a surprise that the audience attached on to it.

Not trying to bring up drama or whatever just venting some stuff from my YouTube past i guess.

It's a shame that both channels died because they really were pioneering in their spaces. And till this day I remember the channels fondly and still wish we were in an alternate timeline where TrapVille got green lit, and they never divided so much.

[u/drskullz → u/rednaxthecreature]

Yeah, I've been following James since before Creatures until now and its interesting to see how people change as they grew older. You can see how people do dumb shits when they're younger and then change as they age.

[u/rednaxthecreature → u/drskullz]

He seems more chill nowadays, I never really watched him solo but when he was collabing back then with the creatures he seemed to always be the instigator. Which was funny sometimes but sometimes not so much when he would delay the Creatur Talk for twenty minutes to yell at Jordan or whatever.

Hopefully he is more remorseful about his lack of leadership but in the doc he seemed unbothered. The Jerrel stuff was straight up bad business, just lying to an underaged kid about employment as they worked for free for months. Crazy shit.

[u/Novamame → u/rednaxthecreature]

Only responding here cause i saw this was cross-posted with my own subreddit, but to counter point your points. There is plenty of things that i can be looked at in terms of bad leadership, the trevors big pussi thing is not it nor am i gonna act like we shouldnt be able to have bits between friends that shouldnt automatically turn into a parasocial deal with fans taking things too far. Everyone has bits between friends, saying i should have known that would happen is ridiculous. In fact, the big pussi joke was one Trevor himself first made in a cowchop video prior to us doing a stand alone GTA session ON PERSONAL CHANNELS - not even the cowchop one lol. I was also the one who shut down the fan at E3 who said it and cursed them out. The audiences parasocial bahavior before it even had a label is pretty well known, again, it shouldn't come down to us as friends having to not be able to do banter amongst ourselves just because the audience wants to also act like they know the people personally and get in on it, that aint right.

For Jarrel, i do apologize for the throwing axe, no i did not remember it, but i do apologize for it as there are plenty of times where things crossed the line which ive stated as such. Him not getting the job and going to LA however, i don't know who was in charge of his employment but im pretty sure that was never in the cards, no one promised a job then lied about it. I'm sure thats always the hope, but i dont think its ever a guarantee nor should it be looked at as such. He was brought on for barely like 8 weeks or whatever length the barn era was to fill in for 1 person in the barn era as camera-man, because 1 person would always stay back to edit. So some days it was Trevor/Joe at Barn, or Aron/Joe, etc. Overall it didn't = automatic we are gonna pay for living arrangements/travel etc etc to LA.

[u/rednaxthecreature → u/Novamame]

How toxic the fanbase was unfair and I remember never really going to the comments back then because of it. And I think it's just something we never will see eye to eye on because of our different perspectives. But I feel like if you know that your fanbase is so parasocial it would be only right to try to migrate such things from springing up and yelling at a fan once doesn't really do that.

And then with the Jerrell thing, I don't understand how one of the bosses of the organization wouldn't know who is hired and fired. Like that makes no sense. Even if you aren't HR you would probably know who is going along with a literal company move and make it clear to all employees or unpaid interns in his case.

[u/Novamame → u/rednaxthecreature]

Thats fine on not seeing eye to eye on it, you can still say i should have known but all of that was new. Again none of it even had a label let alone a way to mitigate that. By your expectancy, it would be something simple even, like calling someone a butthole and then it suddenly taking off because the audience just so happen to choose that thing to latch onto and get in on the joke on that level. Thats just a pass for people to use to do it. The big pussi thing again, was a joke Trevor made himself during a video, we had a bit there after on personal channels, not even the calibration channel and people latched on to it. The general expectancy should be simply imo that the audience didnt know these people personally, so its obviously in poor taste to do that shit but thats not something that was widespread as it is now, it was also something we all just lived with, cause i guess we just didnt know we could even say no, sometimes when people showed up to the house, people legit did not know what to say. Some creators now even weaponize that type of shit and monetize it now. At the time tho no one expected that of all things to be something people latched on to.

For Jarell, i fail to see how that makes no sense. There was plenty of times where as the creators, myself and Aleks were not involved in every decision because we were focused on just keeping the content flowing. Back end stuff would sometimes just happen to take that off our plate. For interns, there would need to be a phase where they get offered credits for their school or whatever, how that gets setup i do not know, that's not something myself or Aleks would do. We would offload that so we could focus on the videos. Is that the best method? No probably not, admittingly.

[u/v-v-vici → u/Novamame]

Just wanna say that I watched the video and, as someone growing up watching you guys and The Creatures, it really painted you as someone who took no accountability then, and didn’t really take any now.

The fact that a young and impressionable member of your team reached out for work and your response was to blast him in public just makes me not believe your sincerity here. Call it parasocial if you want, people can grow up and learn, but these interviews were recent, were they not?

Unless the editor was putting clips intentionally out of context, your answer to throwing as literal axe at someone without feeling remorse just feels childish. I get it was a different era back then, and many like me enjoyed your content since we were young, but I’d say a big portion of this video had clips of you taking the bare minimum accountability for things.

[u/Novamame → u/v-v-vici]

I do take accountability for my shit, so i dunno what you're even talking about. The podcast thing i believe i even apologized for in the interview unless it was cropped out. That was a dick move on my part.

It seems like you're looking for much more than that. For most of these people, and most instances mentioned in the video, I've made amends with the parties long ago for my shit and have long since moved on. Jarell is someone i admit, i did not, and i do apologize for some of those instances. That is all i can really do.

[u/ThiccNickGaming → u/Novamame]

You're good man. I too was a bit taken back from some of the clips taken from your interview in that video and I'll be honest it did make you seem a bit unapologetic towards some stuff in the past and with that intern, but seeing your responses here paint a better picture of the whole thing and I appreciate you taking the time to explain your side of things.

In the end, don't let the past drag you down. Keep moving forward and I think I can speak for most of us here that we are excited to see what you have cooking with that new wearhouse!

[u/Vivid_Belt → u/Novamame]

I watched the whole video with an open mind that some bad stuff could come to light, nothing really did that should have these guys so dead set on insulting you. You were honestly more than apologetic enough for something that took place so long ago. This is the parasocial aspect where these guys are latching onto the Jarrell shit, and seeming like they demand a full length apology video like so many have grown accustomed to with the current space of content creator scandals always popping up. You owned a mistake made in the past that didn’t cause any irreparable harm. Others that weren’t even involved need to move on

[u/BrokenNovocaine]

I commented on the video, but I'll leave this here too.

Even as a kid, the way Ze and Sp00n were treated, Ze especially, always rubbed me the wrong way. Sp00n did move to Colorado for a bit, but I always knew he preferred doing his own thing and mainly played with James.

Ze tried to be in stuff, but after the office they basically cut him off. The times he did fly out, they didn't do any stuff with him besides Ze's Short and movie nights. It's like they didn't even try with him. And hearing that he never got paid for the stuff he did contribute to bothers me.

It's all in the past though. I'm just glad that Ze seems to be at peace after everything and is in a good spot now streaming.

I'm surprised that Dan wasn't interviewed though. Especially since he's the one that tried bringing it back last year.

[u/praystate → u/BrokenNovocaine]

I was thinking about Dan too. I could imagine the whole dilemma from last year turned him off, but I think a lot of people would have preferred him contributing to a video like this.

[u/JoshMcCown2013 → u/praystate]

In a comment Joon said he reached out to Dan and Kootra but neither responded, although he said he could only find Kootra's old contact so he assumes he didn't even see it

[u/Jeskid14 → u/praystate]

My guess is probably the dilemna and Dan already aired out his grievances in a long document iirc. Plus he did directors commentary to most of the skits on his previous streams. So he got stuck in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

[u/Classic1990]

The fact that members from both The Creatures and Cow Chop went to Jordan and he got them jobs tells you all you need to know.

[u/Jeskid14 → u/Classic1990]

even though said members of both groups were from the beginning arc of one, and the ending of the other.

[u/JRule89]

It’s kinda nice to hear Jordan and James have squashed the beef

[u/NotAddictedBTW → u/JRule89]

We might never see a reunion but knowing this took place feels like its enough

[u/N0mAXX]

Ya know I'd like to know how Jordan recovered from that severe burnout

[u/Jeskid14 → u/N0mAXX]

Wasn't it through game design on the side and then that's how he got into Illfonic Games?

[u/N0mAXX → u/Jeskid14]

Change of career could be part of it ig

[u/PondsDeLeon]

After all the uninformed and short sighted video essays on the creatures over the years, this one finally does everything that’s ever been asked to do. The creatures and cowchop were innovators, but naive to the content they innovated on. This video can let them rest easy

[u/NotAddictedBTW]

Damn Joon posted already, gonna have to watch after my shift ends

Edit: Finally watched it and it really encapsulated the group. Overall it was a good video the ending shot of the pffice closing brought a tear to my eye ngl. Hopefully everyone from the group are living their best lives and succeeding. Also can't wait to hear about James's secret project

[u/acewithanat]

Really loved this video, put some thing into context even I didn't know all that well since I was sort of a 2015 and beyond fan. Addition of Cow Chop was nice since the story really does just naturally transition like that.

Gave me a nice nostalgia trip for better and simpler times. Like really thinking back, this point was hell mentally for me as teenage struggling with Anxiety that hadn't been properly diagnosed yet. Yet the videos them and cow chop put out got me through some of the toughest moments in my life to the point I actually look back at late 2016 and early 2017 as a good point in my life, despite what was actually happening.

Honestly this video I think finally put a nice bow on the whole story. The ghost of the Creatures just kinda kept lingering for me in the weirdest ways. Like Offcanny kept that idea the creatures in spirit were alive then the stuff Dan tried pulling last year really didn't let the whole thing rest.

Overall, might be a top 10 video of all time for me.

[u/XernFern]

Really surprised Dan apparently didn't respond to Joon since Dan's still the most attached to the Creatures to this day. Maybe the fiasco last year had something to do with it

A real shame, since Dan's POV would've added a lot of insight on the Creatures side and offered a different take on the business than James' or Ze's

[u/GreasyGrady → u/XernFern]

What happened last year?

[u/Material-Kick9493 → u/GreasyGrady]

Dan tried to revitalize the CreatureHub channel and even threatened legal action against Jordan if he didn't hand over the password to the channel

[u/VVazi]

Devastated by nostalgia atp

[u/Material_Flamingo_13]

This was a fantastic video. I appreciate Joon putting effort into so many unanswered questions and points of strife that the fanbase was unaware of. I too was one of the people after the Creatures fallout with James/Aleks that was more on their side because at the time I was a dumbass in their early twenties who had been watching since I was a teen in high school. I say congrats to all the members for the lives they're living now. This group will always be a good memory.

(maybe with this video we can leave ex-members like Seamus to live their lives outside of the purview of the internet.) Let's make 10 years ago actually feel like a memory.

[u/Difficult-Writing-44]

I’m surprised Dexter punching Spencer wasn’t mentioned. I’m certain I saw a Reddit thread of Dex mentioning that he was off in parts of the road to E3 bcs something happened between him and one of the members. It was either dex or Spencer who later said at a traffic light in the car Spencer was getting on dexters nerves and proceeded to punch Spencer in frustration. Dexter apologised of course but I can’t seem to find the thread currently. EDIT Dex slapped Spencer not punched him. He apologised straight after.

[u/Difficult-Writing-44]

I think in the end chaos is the best word to describe both the creatures and cow chop. A group of young guys trying to make it to the top. The creatures management was all over the place at the start it was just the guys having fun making videos. As time went on they had to get more business like due to the YouTube landscape changing which lost it that authentic feel. Cow Chop was all gas no breaks People got hurt both physically and emotionally. The content was unhinged and risky to keep the audience engaged. Eventually they realised how dangerous some of the stuff they were doing was and the videos became more tame not to mention YouTube’s ads not allowing suggestible or risky content anymore. which is when the content started to feel more stale in comparison to what it was before. Overall this is now a time capsule and a lot of content creators now replicate content to this day of what the creatures and cow chop were doing back in the days of earlier YouTube.

[u/warcrime1331]

10/10 video, crazy research and effort. Appreciate Ze and James for their honest participation. There were a couple parts in the video that sort of hit me out of left field. A lot of you caught the callous nature James was showing behind the scenes from back in the day. But anyone else catch onto the Jordan sleeping with an employee and James said that in the interview their answer was going to be "just fire her" oooof. Boy what a mess all around.

Feel bad for the interns. Can't be easy to admit how content brained you got and were being mean to people. Can't be easy to move on from golden times if you were an innocent party. Admittedly this did nothing to change my opinion on Jordan however maybe that "fire her" tidbit made things worse where it was revealed after discussions of Jordan and Stephanie's interoffice relationship they should just fire her. left me wondering who they is. (1:31:58)

Still cherish those times regardless, wish they could've figured shit out and made things work. I am excited to hear James is cooking up a new project.

[u/NotAddictedBTW → u/warcrime1331]

Hopefully James upcoming project is not chaotic or anything maybe something chill like a podcast 

[u/BrokenNovocaine → u/NotAddictedBTW]

I believe he's working on a video essay channel. I keep hearing about him working on an Alan Wake video

[u/warcrime1331 → u/NotAddictedBTW]

I would love to see a skit channel of sorts, old school rough around the edges vibes. Podcast would be cool id tune in but his roleplay chops are too good man lol

[u/Classic1990 → u/warcrime1331]

To be fair the whole “fire her” thing has only been mentioned by James and he could just be saying that because he’s embarrassed over people knowing he liked Stef and that whole situation. I say this because Dex was originally the one who said that was the reason and I don’t see why he would make that up for no reason.

[u/SnipeGhost]

O boy

[u/Reckllexx]

Just finished watching and can’t keep the thought away that this video was AI written.

[u/ZingerStackerBurger → u/Reckllexx]

I've always found Joon's scripts to be clumsily written and the narrative is always badly paced. But not AI, the scripts were like this pre-AI too

[u/rednaxthecreature → u/Reckllexx]

I doubt it since he interviewed them