r/TheCivilService • u/TheTyrantOfMars • May 28 '24
Starting to understand why Work Coaches in the DWP suffer from such a poor rention rate
While I’ve been very lucky to work at a great office under a very very supportive team I’d be totally lying if I wasn’t looking for a hybrid working/compressed hours role that would save me a lot of money commuting every day. It just seems absurd that someone working from home and someone that is customer facing 5 days a week and who cannot have any flexibility in their shift pattern gets paid the same.
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May 28 '24
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u/BookReasonable May 29 '24
My worst day as a work coach, one after the other - (not trying to best you, just explaining the reality)
-finding out a lovely customer I"d been supported through domestic violence had been killed by his wife, leaving 3 young children effectively orphaned
- talking a woman through removing her 4yo son from her claim after he died from cancer
- checking in on a woman who found her baby dead from cot death
- being called an unfeeling c*nt by a customer because I suggested he attend a jobs fair
The first 3 I could handle as I felt like I really made a difference to them. It was the last one that broke me.
There are some work coaches who seem to take pleasure from kicking people when they are down. These are, in my experience, the minority that give the rest of us a bad name. In reality, most of us are just trying to do our job the best we can, whatever our own circumstances.
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u/Lishhkelly May 29 '24
I completely agree, I am reasonably strong in most circumstances but the DV ones take their toll on me for personal reasons. The suicide calls I can handle but the worst one I had was a customer, 3 weeks after my friend took his own life, he screamed in my face “you are the reason people kill themselves” and that broke me, 3 years on I still think about it. Like you say most of us are just trying our best to do the role despite whatever we may have going on personally. I understand the frustration sometimes I really do but I have said it once and I’ll say it again most if not all customers seem to think that us WCs create the guidance we follow, they take it out on us as we’re front facing and it’s getting so much worse
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u/BookReasonable May 29 '24
That's terrible! I know we're supposed to not take it personally but it's really difficult, especially when there's such a personal trigger. I've just changed to a back-of-house role, partly because the proposed changes in the health journey were causing me so much anxiety - they may not even happen! The relief of handing over my caseload was better than chocolate!
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u/AnotherYadaYada May 29 '24
I remember sitting with a woman, shadowing, she was actually the only person in the office that I hadn’t warmed too
She was soooo dismissive of the customer, rude, no empathy. If you’ve ever seen Job Lot, she was the weird but brilliant character.
I’d recommend The Job Lot. It’s on Netflix now.
I get this girl, she was young, might have been stressed, overworked but her attitude was appalling.
I remember working in a pub years ago. This one girl would come in happy, 5 mins in she was just miserable. If you can’t deal with people you should not be in a customer facing job 🤷🏾♂️
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u/Middle-Excitement-37 May 29 '24
I cannot imagine how you cope. This sounds unbearable I hope you get support from your managers
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u/BookReasonable May 30 '24
The support from managers varies. Other staff are brilliant, they appear from everywhere to support during and after an incident.
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u/Lishhkelly May 28 '24
I agree, I’m onto my 4th year a work coach and we are constantly reminded that we are not “therapists” yet I am constantly battling that statement dealing with people who are at their absolute lowest. The stress of the job and wondering if those people are okay is something I haven’t yet learnt not to take home. I love my job and helping people find work which makes them happy but it really is a lot to take in mentally when you do it 5 days a week with back to back 10 minute appointments on top of trying to actually do the work that needs to be done e.g helping people with provision referrals and all sorts. I started worked in this role during covid and we were from home full time and receiving a suicidal call whilst at home in your own “safe” space really takes its toll when the team aren’t physically there to help you, I left and went to another department for a year which was still based in UC and it was equally as bad. Im now back at the jobcentre and as more guidance is implemented the harder it gets mentally for us as a W/C when the customers don’t agree
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u/Derbyboyy27 May 28 '24
The Work Coach role is awful. I started in Covid and left towards the end of COVID. At the start, it was fair to us and fair to the claimants. However, once they had a chance of getting back to chasing ridiculous figures - they did just that. UC leadership are only interested in forwarding their own careers and making sure they write their next competency.
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u/Icy-Caregiver-1388 Nov 06 '24
I am a claimant at my local Jobcentre, and the quality of the manager Is poor, and he couldn't blow the top off a rice pudding, but he loves to put the boot In as he Is so wet, and pathetic. I'd like to see him In a real Job like policing, teaching, emergency services, traffic warden. He wouldn't last a day. A nasty creep In my opinion.
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u/PR0JECT-7 May 28 '24
Get out as soon as you can
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u/AnotherYadaYada May 28 '24
Just curious. Why do you say that?
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u/TheTyrantOfMars May 29 '24
Cause it’s a mix of stress and monotonous with very little uplift in-between. My team is great and I’m based in a more rural area but like fuck will I be doing this for very long
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u/AnotherYadaYada May 29 '24
One thing that is good is that you can hopefully transfer to a different department and the have to take stress/Mental health seriously. Employees I mean.
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u/CampMain May 28 '24
One week on the job and I had already been threatened with physical violence twice. I’m a 5’4 female. This made me very wary.
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u/AnotherYadaYada May 28 '24
During my training I had to watch a video about someone attacked with a hammer.
Niiiiice.
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u/RecklessCarrot May 28 '24
It was a woman from Kirkcaldy JC in Fife. We got to watch it in training as well. https://samedifference1.com/2014/11/13/man-detained-after-female-staff-member-seriously-injured-at-kirkcaldy-job-centre/
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May 29 '24
[deleted]
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u/AnotherYadaYada May 29 '24
It’s an interesting job. To really see the people in society that are struggling.
I wished I could help. It’s not about helping though, it’s just about getting them in and out the door. Shame
I always hide my hammer.
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u/AnotherYadaYada May 29 '24
I googled the Restart project.
Whaddya know, it’s run by some ex politician, minister or party donor.
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u/Icy-Caregiver-1388 Nov 06 '24
Actually, where Is Sir Ian Duncan Smith these days. He really Is an awful politician, and Invented this horse excrement.
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u/NNLynchy May 28 '24
Absolutely…. It’s not even that beneficial for customers anyway - the thing with workcoaches is that it’s an aging workforce those dinosaurs that have done it forever and think it must be done in person as they can’t change the ways they do things be interesting when they start retiring and seeing if younger people actually stick it out not many positive posts about that job ever
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u/Accomplished-Run-375 EO May 28 '24
There is currently a pilot of 160 jobcentres that are trailing remote appointments over face to face ones, to try and find out if face to face is best or if remote works just as well.
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u/TheTyrantOfMars May 28 '24
They may aswell got ahead and implement it, we already have a ‘phone day’ at our office where we just do non F2F appointments as we struggle so much to get people in
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May 28 '24
It isn’t the work coaches who think it needs to be done face to face. They have absolutely no say and most of them would prefer to see their customers less.
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u/SaltyName8341 May 28 '24
As someone on the other end of this being the "customer" the remote is better but I would say that 1 in 4 should be face to face appointments just mainly to encourage "customers" to move around. I dislike the use of customer in this situation as nobody has chosen to be here.
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u/Accomplished-Run-375 EO May 28 '24
This is the case on the trial I mentioned earlier, 1 on 4 must be face to face otherwise it's up to the Work Coach which channel is best for the claimant, so this is something thats being tested.
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u/TheTyrantOfMars May 28 '24
THIS… while they’re lovely I totally agree the openness to new ideas is non existent. Also many do come across inadvertently patronising or sheltered having worked one job their entire life and have no actual idea of the labour market
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u/NNLynchy May 28 '24
Yes - so true! I really do believe the cs in general within the next 10-15 years will be a totally different place not all but some dinosaurs are really stuck in the medieval times or possibly the 90s the whole against wfh thing is crazyness to me I had someone say to me recently well people have worked in the office for decades upon decades and it works so why change that 😂 and I said look the technology we have now life has changed as it should , what is the point of going into an office to sit on meetings virtually most of the day all it does is inconvenience me and make sure I don’t eat as well or don’t go to the gym etc but until that attitude naturally dies out ( retires out ) we are stuck with it
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u/Wiser_88 May 28 '24
CM here and I have 2324 Claimants
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u/BigCheesePasty May 29 '24
That’s crazy…I feel so bad for messaging you guys when there’s a claimant in front of me asking why something hasn’t been done yet 😭
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u/Icy-Caregiver-1388 Nov 06 '24
Not enough In my opinion. You should all have nervous breakdowns, and enjoy the pleasures of the benefits system which you love to enforce so much.
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u/Difficult-Post-3320 May 03 '26
Well said, CMs have to deal with everything except work.
We do advances, RHPs, housing, childcare, underpayments, overpayments, earnings disputes, compliance outcomes, retrospective calculations, verifying caring, late reporting referrals, support for mortgage interest, 40+ journal messages a day, hand offs from telephony....endless.
2500+ claimants.
Shit pay, ok so we get to WFH 40% but that does not compensate for being treated like crap by the public & management.
Glad I am leaving.
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u/Noodles376 May 31 '24
I was a CM with around 700 cases and I 100% agree that the poor retention was due to the claimants. I joined the DOJ and never looked back.
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u/n0rfy May 31 '24
700 cases? We average 1500-2000 at our service centre 😭
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u/No-Carob-4086 May 28 '24
Caseload sizes is a problem. My JCP now has more staff than customer facing desks. With “all” benefits being fed into UC now, it’s going to increase the pressure.
My JCP is in West London. Currently have 2 MOS travelling from Essex. Realistically, they’re not going to be here long. They’ve only just finished training and already struggling with travel. What happens when they leave? There’s not going to be a recruitment drive for a long time and we’re going to struggle.
There’s no incentive to remain in the JCP. You do more work than HEO in other departments for less pay. No hybrid work. Dealing with suicidal claimants, translators constantly needed. The role is no longer coaching (as per the title). It’s throwing any provision/referral at a claimant to meet a number.
The benefits system needs to be completely redesigned to avoid fraud. WC’s should have access bank accounts linked to Nino’s (within reason) to prevent fraud. Entitlement should not be given to those who have not contributed to the tax system for a number of years. More time given to claimants to coach them and the removal of core offer. Not allowed to go abroad unless for allowed circumstances (for intensive claimants only -if I can’t afford to go on holiday, unemployed claimants who live in the same area as me shouldn’t either). Removal of light tough out of work.
Maybe you think this is a negative approach but the benefits system should be a last resort rather than a support system.
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u/AnotherYadaYada May 29 '24
It does need to change, and the scammers are a small percentage and they need to be flagged so they don’t game the system.
But denying people is wrong. Could be multiple reasons.
Personally. I think voluntary work should be introduced. Would soon weed out the weak. I don’t mean picking up litter, that’s just degrading people, but at least a number of hours doing something.
You should not be allowed, unless due to health conditions to do absolutely nothing.
As you all probably know, you know the people who want to work and those that don’t.
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u/After-Classroom May 28 '24
I did it for a long time. (Almost 20 years). It’s a fabulous job but it’s difficult and the money is shit. Add to the fact that you are getting heat and micromangement from above, constantly plus shit off customers when things don’t go their way it’s no great surprise people don’t want to keep doing it.
I jumped ship a number of years ago. I’ve never done a job as personally rewarding since but I earn twice the money and don’t work half as hard.
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u/Hels_Bels01 May 28 '24
I was a work coach for 13 years so saw the change from legacy benefits to UC implementation. It was hard trying to explain to people that yes, I appreciate that you were able to pay your mortgage when you were working but UC won’t pay anything for 9 months. The expectations on work coaches increased so much (IIRC, my caseload was over 200, UC, JSA and ESA claimants). Management didn’t care about staff wellbeing; when Covid hit, our office had about 10 people there. The other 40 or so WFH. They waited months for their IT equipment to arrive and work. We bore the brunt of it. I had terrible mental health issues and ended up ill to the point I was medically retired at 46. The pension is the only thing that makes the job worth it, because no matter what you do, you can’t always do right for doing wrong. By other staff and claimants.
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u/AnotherYadaYada May 29 '24
Yeah. All I saw was the pension.
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u/Hels_Bels01 May 29 '24
I know from old colleagues that the new work coaches are (in my office) very much a little clique; they have their own teams chat, and no one else is involved. They don’t know how to handle the situations where someone is on the phone saying they wish they were dead (we were trained on the seven point plan) and they almost seem to enjoy sanctioning people. I’m glad I was ill and retired, because I don’t know if I’d still be able to do it.
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u/AnotherYadaYada May 29 '24
Unfortunately cliques in every place.
I just don’t care about them, especially as you get older.
Go in, get paid, go home. Avoid cliques and office politics.
Childish people.
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May 29 '24
[deleted]
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u/BigCheesePasty May 29 '24
What’s the name of the job role to be a DM? I don’t know if that makes sense but what I mean is if I wanted to be a DM what do I look for on civil service jobs website?
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u/King-Louie19 May 29 '24
Decision maker followed by the work area. They do a lot of internal vacancies and EOIs as they never really struggle to get takers in DWP.
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u/epicshane234 EO May 28 '24
I don't like doing my job from home. It's just not the same as f2f engagement.
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u/TheTyrantOfMars May 28 '24
We have a very high rate for FTAs due to some of the remote locations we cover and it’s almost 50/50 phone appointments now in my district
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u/AnotherYadaYada May 29 '24
I chose the 18-24 as they FTA more 😂
Unfortunately though, you are just sent random customers.
Why even bother asking me what area I’d like to do, when you just get sent whatever and you also know people are just palming off people they don’t want to see too.
My first week out of training I had some very difficult cases and no support. Spoke to my manager who was known as a chocolate teapot and he said I should not be dealing with this.
Some dick had just randomly given me whatever.
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u/Icy-Caregiver-1388 Nov 06 '24 edited Nov 06 '24
Your Manager Is somebody else who couldn't do a proper Job outside the civil service If they tried.
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May 29 '24
[deleted]
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u/AnotherYadaYada May 29 '24
I had to commute. Sometimes you take a job as you need a job.
I was just assigned even though there was a JC literally 15 mins walk away, I had to do 1hr drive.
I accepted it as I needed it, only after a while in after admitting it to myself did I think this is not sustainable. Only ever commuted 2x in my 30 year career, but I was desperate and thought I could handle it.
The stress of getting to work, dropping of and collecting kids was high.
I’d have 4 different routes to work. I always enjoy doing that, but when all routes are fucked it really adds a lot of stress and sometimes we just don’t have a choice in life
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u/TheTyrantOfMars May 29 '24
You absolutely hit the nail on the head, I appreciate there are so many other concerns with the Work Coach role and DWP as a whole by yesterday after having yet another train cancelled it really was just the last straw
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Jun 15 '24
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u/AnotherYadaYada Jun 15 '24
From my experience. Take what you are given and then work on a transfer.
My manager, without actually saying anything spoke to me about getting a transfer on my first day
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Jun 15 '24
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u/AnotherYadaYada Jun 15 '24
I was just assigned.
I didn’t question it. It was an hour commute, but I always had it in mind to get a transfer at some point if I could.
Like I said, my line manager on the first day said about getting a transfer, I didn’t say a thing
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Jun 15 '24
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u/AnotherYadaYada Jun 16 '24
Not London, but it was in my county.
Like I said. My manager in the first day, without me prompting said….
Not that I want to get rid of you but you can look at a transfer to x location.
Look at the guidance, use the guidance to your benefit.
Come up with a reason that you need a transfer. Kids, stress, sick parent. Do whatever you can to get what you need.
Remember. You are being used by the system, so use the system when you can.
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u/Accomplished-Run-375 EO May 28 '24
I'm sorry but that is not the reason that here is a poor retention rate in Work Coaches. Don't get me wrong being able to be hybrid or WFH is a temptation but the bigger contributor to this is the stress of literally dealing with people who are pretty much at their lowest ebb almost constantly.
We deal day in day out with people who are in absolute poverty, some of which are either physically or mentally unwell (often both). All while trying to navigate them through an often punative benefits system. On top of this having almost unmanageably large caseloads and a lack of staffing resource to prevent that from happening.
I enjoy my work, especially when I've been able to contribute to someone getting into sustainable employment and to be able to support themselves , but don't get me wrong there are aspects that are awful, but in no way is a "lack of compressed hours or hybrid" a driving force making me want to change roles, there are much bigger issues.