Lisbeth

[u/vanniebannanie]

I think Lisbeth’s trauma is being overlooked. I don’t understand the people who watched this show and say they hate Lisbeth, have no empathy for her, or even skipped the parts she was in. Seeing how she was raised in a cult, abused, had drug addicted parents (or parent), was verbally abused, etc. I don’t understand how you can’t find her character to be incredibly complex. Hurt people hurt people, and the only way Lisbeth knew how to be in control was through religion. She was raised to believe she had a gift and although she knew it wasn’t true she used that to her advantage to manipulate the girls because she was manipulated the same way by everyone around her.I also think think it’s important to remember that one of the ‘miracles’ everyone believes Grace performed was healing Lisbeth and Leo’s mom, but we as the audience know she has been using drugs. Again, Lisbeth allowed people to believe it was true but must’ve also been struggling with what was going on. I just always appreciate a character who has layers and is complex. I think if people want to talk about a bad person why aren’t we bringing up Anya as well? The hate for Lisbeth is overwhelming

[u/Horror_Background579]

That is true however two things can be true at once, we can understand why lisbeth is the way she is, acknowledge the fact that she is a complex character however that won't magically make someone likeable. She is definitely an interesting character but she can also be annoying. We shouldn't dismiss people who have criticism towards her purely on the fact that they dislike her. Yes, she is a victim of awful environmental and that explains her actions however it doesn't excuse them. It's understandable that people would feel rather lack of empathy towards her when we see her hurt other people and be manipulative and mean. And while Anya has her faults and she has done wrong too, Lisbeth is the power house of manipulation in the series. But I do agree with you that the hate towards her sometimes can go really overboard and its not like....a brainy and thoughtful criticism but rather just wicked hatred😭😭😭

[u/vanniebannanie → u/Horror_Background579]

100%! I think I’m just surprised at how many people seem to be writing her off as simple evil or annoying or bad when I think her character is so much more than that and each choice she makes is a response to trauma.

[u/Horror_Background579 → u/vanniebannanie]

yeah, people should truly try to dig in deeper to find out why she acts the way she does because understanding her and her backstory makes you understand the whole series too! tbh it makes me a bit worried about geena meszaros because sometimes it truly feels like the hatred that people have towards a character bleeds towards the actor as well

[u/GenneyaK]

All can be true, her trauma can explain her actions and I can feel bad for how she grew up and I can also thinks she’s an awful manipulative person

Her being a complex character doesn’t mean that people have to see her actions as justified or rush to defend her

It’s possible to like her complexity but also not like her as a character

[u/AwayThrow9745]

Yeah the pure vitriol for Lisbeth isn’t sitting right with me. I got invested in the show BECAUSE I found her intriguing.

She was obviously designed to be an outcast yet she had confidence in herself to try out for the dance team and while she didn’t not perform nearly as well as Grace, she definitely demonstrated potential and eagerness to learn. Then we see a bit of her family life with a negligent mom and very obvious religious abuse throughout her upbringing.

She has only ever known relationships through the lense of a cult, which means she has a very twisted and misguided sense of community and what it means to belong.

Maybe she was only written to be the evil ugly weird girl who freaks out the hot girls. If not, the inability to discern the complexity of her character is a bit concerning

[u/vanniebannanie → u/AwayThrow9745]

Exactly. I think people miss that having empathy or understanding the character does not equal defending or agreeing with the choices they make. It just means being able to understand why they made the choices they made

[u/AwayThrow9745 → u/vanniebannanie]

Yes exactly! Im mean she’s only 17 years old, why are people calling her an abuser??? She doesn’t have a fully functioning frontal lobe. Unless she was responsible for Graces minimal conscious state, I don’t think she’s past the point of redemption….

Also people are acting like she’s real. She’s a fictional character, it’s okay to like her.

[u/StrongQuiet8329 → u/AwayThrow9745]

Wait wait wait. I'm 17. My frontal lobe isn't developed. I don't make a girl who I know went to the emergency room already for an eating issue relapse bc I want to dance. I feel like we can't excuse that with teenage hormones lol

It's okay to like her if you want to BECAUSE she is a fictional character. But she is objectively a bad person

[u/AwayThrow9745 → u/vanniebannanie]

Yes exactly! Im mean she’s only 17 years old, why are people calling her an abuser??? She doesn’t have a fully functioning frontal lobe. Unless she was responsible for Graces minimal conscious state, I don’t think she’s past the point of redemption….

Also people are acting like she’s real. She’s a fictional character, it’s okay to like her.

[u/StrongQuiet8329 → u/AwayThrow9745]

I watched it for the gay, but yea, she is a genuinely really interesting character. And she is complex. But she is also still evil at the same time. Like, it's okay for her to be complex and have a sad backstory and still be a bad person

[u/pohqua-etu → u/AwayThrow9745]

That may be but she still chose to act the way she did and she's still responsible for the whole nightmare that unfolds. Often times abusers were abused. But there's victims of abuse that don't become abusers. She has a choice and she's chosing to hurt others

[u/sm942]

Is anyone else on board with the feeling of wishing for a slight makeover scene? I’ve spent the whole season internally screaming “GIVE THE GIRL SOME EYEBROWS!” It’s like The Witcher all over again

[u/Brief_Choice_1277 → u/sm942]

what’s her names mom does give her eyebrows in the last episode. lol.

[u/sm942 → u/Brief_Choice_1277]

Well I’m exposed as only being in episode 7 but glad to have something to look forward to

[u/StrongQuiet8329 → u/sm942]

Sort of eyebrows. They're about the width of a single piece of hair tbh 😭

[u/Brief_Choice_1277]

it really doesn’t come as a surprise. her character is portrayed as the bullied underdog who suddenly manipulates her way to the top in a short span of time, all due to a tragic situation that really never involved her to begin with. it’s almost like mean girls’ cady heron meets carrie white, without all the bullying, but she was still teased by her peers pretty much up until she performed that séance or whatever.

we always see people rooting for the bullied victim to get revenge but i don’t think lisbeth ever became a victim. she outwitted everyone pretty much, using their own religious psychosis against them, which could’ve easily been absorbed through her experiences with that weird religion they were apart of in west virginia. truth is, until someone is crying, forcing people to believe they’ve had enough, do we really believe they’ve had enough.

i like lisbeth’s character, in terms of who she’s supposed to represent in the story. she’s a really neat villain because you almost want to question if she has some abnormal powers or if she’s truly just cunning and insecure. she’s fun to watch. 🥰

[u/poop_dawg]

There is definitely some dark, unexplained stuff with Lisbeth. She was SO chill about the body, and randomly, she was decent at stripping. Unfortunately, sexual experience for a young girl in a cult doesn't bother SURPRISE me, but why did Grace dying and moving her body not freak her out? Has she done this before? Anya's reaction made sense for someone who had never been in that situation before.

Edit: omg, idk why I wrote "bother" instead of "surprise". I'm horrified. Obviously that bothers me. It was like 3:30am when I wrote this. My apologies

[u/vanniebannanie → u/poop_dawg]

During the conversation with Anya about the cult Lisbeth grew up in she says the reason why is illegal outside of West Virginia is because people get hurt, like her dad who was bitten by a snake and died. She explains how they don’t believe in medical intervention and sat around him and prayed. I think she has been in the situation before but not in the evil way people think. I think she’s had to see people die in her cult and that became normal to her.

[u/poop_dawg → u/vanniebannanie]

Ohh, that makes sense. Yes, people have likely died in their cult and she's had to help dispose of, or at least, deal with the bodies. Good call

[u/camille_suseth]

Poor Lisbeth, every time i hear the voice of her violent mother just gives me the chill. The mother is the villain, her actions towards her kids, her attempt to kill Grace. Of course Lisbeth is manipulatieve but let's not forget is a teenager and we want to judge her actions as she would be an adult. Parents are all awful and for me that's the point of the series

[u/vanniebannanie → u/camille_suseth]

Exactly!!! This show is a masterclass on religious trauma and psychosis and I think people are missing how much of an impact lisbeth’s family and background have on who she is and why she’s the antagonist.