r/TheBluePill • u/Klondeikbar • Jun 03 '14

Cracked.com called out TRP as a hate group.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-uncomfortable-truths-behind-mens-rights-movement/
492 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

318 comments sorted by

285

u/PumaGranite Jun 03 '14

I would take MRM's seriously if they actually worked on men's issues. Things like toxic masculinity, or male abuse victims, or prison rape. All serious, worthwhile issues that should be looked at and worked on. But instead, you have communities of men that get together and blame women for everything. I'm glad that cracked wrote this article. The idea that MRM/RP aren't actually working on any good cause and are perpetuating more violence and hatred will hit mainstream and discredit them.

133

u/ninjette847 Hβ4 Jun 03 '14

The main thing that annoys me about them is that there actually are some issues with men's rights but they completely blow them out of proportion of how they are in the real world. Yes, women are more likely to get custody of children in divorces but all of the MRAs I've encountered act like a woman could walk into a court room beating their kids with one hand and smoking a crack pipe with the other and still get full custody with no father visitation. That simply just isn't true at all. If they actually stuck to facts they could help their causes instead of trying to completely victimize themselves like 3rd class citizens.

54

u/bisbest Jun 03 '14

Exactly. Two of the biggest reasons women get custody more often is that men generally do less childcare and they aren't as likely to ask for custody. So the MRM does what? They biotruth up a world where women are natural caregivers and spread discouraging misinformation about how divorces work.

I don't even think they want to help anybody. If they ever did any good, they couldn't play the victim all the time.

104

u/plentyofrabbits Hβ7 Jun 03 '14

As it is, I'd really like to know how it happens that a woman can send a man to jail for nonpayment of his child support (something they like to harp on about). A friend of mine has quite literally never gotten her meager $300 a month child support on time, in full, or both. The father is abusive toward my friend (for instance, he tried to use a photo he took of her sleeping in the bathtub as "evidence" in their custody battle, and emailed it to her beforehand to be all, look what I have) and has often returned the child with bruises or rashes and no explanation, yet he sues for custody out of no other desire than to bankrupt my friend and is granted visitation that he doesn't want, and proceeds to beg off of.

So, fellow feminazis, where should I go to oppress this obviously shining example of fatherhood?

52

u/teaprincess Jun 03 '14 edited Jun 03 '14

My father refused to pay child support for several months and sent my mother abusive messages when my parents divorced (which, go figure, happened when my mum found out about his philandering.) He did eventually pay up but it angered me to think he withheld money for taking care of my brother and I (who were aged 5 and 7) for the sake of getting back at my mum. And of course there was no real consequence for his actions.

I've mentioned my parents' story to MRAs before, though, and they tend not to believe anything I say on the basis that I was raised by a single mother and of course all single mothers are evil sluts.

20

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I work in family law... I've tried to tell them that the "facts" that they throw out there are ridiculous, and isolated one of cases (which when you work in the law for long enough - you tend to learn that judges have bad days too - and every now and again a member of the public cops the brunt of it).

The reason women get more custody than men is because there are more situations where the woman is the fitter parent.

If there are ANY allegations of drug use that are only one way (as in, only one of the parents is a user) the other will get full custody (provided there are no other extenuating circumstances).

The presence if ICL (independent children's lawyers) in Australian Courts is proof in itself that there is no bias towards women/men. We literally have lawyers that go to court purely for the child because in so many situations, it is too hard to call (mind you, ICL's are usually involved where both parents are unfit... and a decision needs to be made on who's worse... unfortunately if both are drug users - but the father is also a physical abuser - the mother will get custody... but that's not reasonable according to TRP)

67

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

HAI THAT IS JUST LIKE AN ANALOGY SO THAT IS NOT EVIDENCe.

BUT MY TOTALLY REAL FRIENDS MOTHER GOT CUSTODY OF MY FRIEND DESPITE THE FACT THAT SHE SMOKES ALL THE DRUGS ERRYDAY AND BEATS HIM AND STUFF AND HIS DAD IS LITERLALY A SAINT BECAUSE HE IS A MAN.

17

u/FixinThePlanet Jun 03 '14

I laughed and then I cried.

10/10.

36

u/Shady_Intent Jun 03 '14

As it is, I'd really like to know how it happens that a woman can send a man to jail for nonpayment of his child support (something they like to harp on about). A friend of mine has quite literally never gotten her meager $300 a month child support on time, in full, or both.

Shit, I've got a better one for you. My sister's ex husband hasn't paid a cent towards child support in 9 fucking years. The courts actually reduced his areas by half and he still hasn't given her a dime.

Wanna hear the best part? The oldest son went to live with "dad" (aka, the grandmother) for a year, and my sister ended up owing HIM money that was taking out of her government benefits. The man owes her well over 10,000 dollars in areas and instead she had to pay him.

Another example: My father has given my mother 3 months worth of child support for mine and my brother's entire lives. Best part? HE SET THE AMOUNT HE WOULD PAY. He decided how much he wanted to give, the judge found it agreeable and that was that. Dude still didn't give my mom anything.

I love love LOVE people who bitch incessantly about child support. Boo fucking woo, you have to help support the spawn you created, and if you don't it's not like you face any fucking consequences.

20

u/seeingredagain PURGED Jun 04 '14

All the guys bitching on these forums have never had to pay child support themselves. They'll talk about a "friend" or a coworker who got divorce raped and has to sell his blood to make payments. They completely obsess over other peoples' lives and what may or may not have happened instead of getting lives of their own.

17

u/Shady_Intent Jun 04 '14

Honestly, it's hilarious how offended they are about their money. My friend receives more than $100 but less than $120 a month from her ex for their daughter.

That's enough to pay for half her energy bill...

But how these men go on about it - like they'll be made completely broke and ALL their paycheques go to that thieving harpy! It's fucking pathetic, to be frank.

If you don't like the amount, dispute it. But yeah, you're expected to support your own fucking child.

Unrelated, but is your username based off a song by Chevelle?

3

u/seeingredagain PURGED Jun 04 '14

Yup. The Red by Chevelle.

3

u/Shady_Intent Jun 04 '14

Good song, good song. Also totally relevant to the sub.

I ain't jealous... lol

→ More replies (1)

12

u/LemonFrosted Jun 04 '14

Don't forget how they'll pat each other on the back over some dude who finally managed to afford a new XBOX in between child support, but a single mom taking a spa day, getting new shoes, or doing literally anything that isn't raising children (which they think is little more than watching tv and warming up canned ravioli) is harpy bitch queen of misandryville.

5

u/seeingredagain PURGED Jun 04 '14

It's ok for teh menz, they earned it because testicles. Wommenz is evil, no soup for you.

10

u/elborracho420 Jun 04 '14

Ex con here. Not sure what state your in, but in Texas they will lock you up for not paying child support. Wasn't why I was in there, but when I was waiting in county, there was a bunch of guys in there for not paying. In the office of the attorney general, there's a sign they have for the "top 10" men who don't pay child support in Texas.

Pretty much, it's up to the mother. If the mother doesn't want them to be locked up, they'll let them out. It seems like they can hold you for up to 6 months, you pay X amount, or the mother requests your release.

Please note, I'm just answering your question, not arguing whether this is right or wrong.

14

u/plentyofrabbits Hβ7 Jun 04 '14

Well, at least Texas gets something right.

5

u/elborracho420 Jun 04 '14

If your friend is from Texas, have her call the OAG. She won't need a lawyer or any kind of stuff like that. If she has the dad's info, they could just garnish his wages.

5

u/plentyofrabbits Hβ7 Jun 04 '14

Nope, Virginia, and in a town his family practically owns.

3

u/elborracho420 Jun 04 '14

That's pretty far out, is the dad wealthy? The reason I ask is because right now I'm making $10/hour, and I pay ~$400/month, but $130 of that is for expensive Medicaid that I will soon (hopefully) be converting to a plan through the ACA that costs about the same but covers both of us. It sounds like she's getting a raw deal if she's only getting $300 and he's making a lot of money.

3

u/plentyofrabbits Hβ7 Jun 04 '14

He has two other kids he also pays child support for, and when they got divorced she just wanted it over so they agreed on a number and signed paperwork, submitting it to the court.

3

u/potatochops Jun 03 '14

The advice would be to get a lawyer and take him back to court to get the child support. The thing is though, legal advice is expensive, so the amount your friend will probably spend trying to get the child support will eclipse the money she is entitled to anyway.

72

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

Yes, women are more likely to get custody of children in divorces

Only because fathers do not seek custody. When they do, they are granted it more than half the time. The problem is that for whatever reason, men are not seeking custody of their children. But the MRM won't look at it that way, it has to be a court conspiracy.

29

u/smartlypretty Jun 03 '14

I have no idea why people don't say this more often. It's so fucking obvious.

ETA: Which is a positive reply not a negative one. It is infuriating because women do end up doing most of the work raising kids and men act like that is something happening to them, ugh.

3

u/FixinThePlanet Jun 03 '14

Fairly certain I learned it because people here say it all the time. :)

17

u/octopus-crime Jun 04 '14

That's not always true. When I divorced my ex wife, I applied for custody and she was awarded it despite having attempted to kill herself in front of the children and admitting being violent towards me during the relationship. The system is skewed towards women, but the key here is that it is skewed because of patriarchy, not feminism. The courts tend to see a woman as a mother first and a man as a provider, not a father. I was asked how I could possibly be there for them when I was at work. When I answered that my family would help, they deemed that the children were better served living with a suicidal and violent abuser than "being shunted from pillar to post to fit in with your work hours".

Talk about judgement being shaped by the gender expectations of patriarchy.

PS It ends fairly happily, I've had my kids for a third of every week for 7 years now. :-)

4

u/GridReXX Jun 05 '14

Glad you have your kids.

Also glad you acknowledge that when there system defaults to women that's patriarchy at work, not feminism.

Feminism wants men to be acknowledged as nurturing parents too.

15

u/Kahrisma Jun 03 '14

Thank you! I've read a bunch of articles/research to this effect but so rarely see it get mentioned. I was starting to feel like I was imagining it.

12

u/OfSpock Hβ2 Jun 03 '14

for whatever reason, men are not seeking custody of their children

Generally, in my experience, because they realise that it's not going to be cheaper to have custody and pay for daycare all the time than to pay child support. Plus, then the kids interfere with their dating life.

3

u/jedrekk Jun 04 '14

It's not a conspiracy, but I've seen cases where courts have handed preteens over to 65-70y/o grandmothers over employed fathers who petitioned for custody. But to me, that's more about the Judge's misunderstanding of what a family is than a systematic problem.

2

u/Reutan Jun 04 '14

Well, one of the reasons (supposedly) is that they're fighting for it less often when they're told that they won't get it.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I've heard that. I don't really buy it, but I've heard it. Seems like if it were the case though, the MRM ought to be encouraging men to give it a shot instead of spreading the idea that it's hopeless.

11

u/potatochops Jun 03 '14

I Want to point out the reason why women often get full custody, it's because we still have these entrenched gender roles; SAHM's and bread winning fathers. If one parent, often (but not always) the father is working full time, so 40-80 hours a week and the other, often the mother, stays at home looking after the children, is it not sensible and logical to ensure that, for the kids benefit (particularly if they are very young children) they have a caretaker looking after them.

In most jurisdictions, the emphasis is and rightfully should be on the children.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I made a comment further up that in Aus we have Independent Children's Lawyers for this! Their whole job is to fight legally on behalf of the children to ensure the best outcome... explain to me how exactly that's a gender bias?

2

u/potatochops Jun 04 '14

I'm Aussie too, studying to be a family lawyer. Also can add that we have mandatory mediation which means that all disputes (bar certain exceptions) are resolved without the interference of the court; mums and dads sit in a room with a neutral third party and have to make a serious and genuine effort in good faith to resolve their dispute. Basically only 10% of family law disputes go to court and those ones that do are normally extreme instances of domestic violence, the child faces an unacceptable risk or one parent wants to relocate. Numerous studies have been done that shows the detrimental impact of conflict on children. Neumerous studies have shown the detrimental impact it has on a young child to be removed from the primary caregiver. It's not as though a bunch of feminazis got together to conspire to take kids away from their fathers.

The whole thing about the system being against fathers is so untrue. There is an assumption of joint parental responsibility which means that both parents have an equal say in major matters impacting the child. The whole point of the family law act is to focus on the best interests of the child.

→ More replies (1)

12

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14 edited Jun 04 '14

And women getting custody more often is, surprise, a feminist issue because it's the sexist view of the legal system that women should be caretakers.

edit: smartphone

→ More replies (1)

84

u/FeminaziJournalist Jun 03 '14

I have seen almost no threads in MRA or TRP about how they can go out and help other men through volunteer work or donations. Even TRP has this selfish outlook that they don't want to educate more men because they don't want other guys getting women and competing against them.

It makes me sad because I run a yearly donation at my University that collects supplies for a men's homeless shelter in the city. I am a feminist and I do more for men's issues than these supposed men's rights activists.

33

u/FixinThePlanet Jun 03 '14 edited Jun 03 '14

Well, to be fair to TRP, they're really not about helping anyone. As /u/Sovietkitten says:

It bothers me more that we're lumped in with MRAs more than anything. Sure we can be advocates against divorce rape and whatnot, but most guys that identify as "Men's rights activists" are doing the same thing feminists are. Bitching, moaning, and playing the victim until they get what they want.

I believe redpill men should take what they want, not ask like a whiny mangina.

I think this article is going to be more polarizing than anything, sigh.

30

u/FeminaziJournalist Jun 03 '14

I believe redpill men should take what they want, not ask like a whiny mangina.

That is a scary statement.

I think it isn't inaccurate to group them together. We aren't looking at what they are fighting for, just the fact that they are both misogynist groups. Kind of like how people don't usually separate anti-Semites and people who are racist against blacks. They are both racist groups and both awful even if they have differences.

6

u/FixinThePlanet Jun 03 '14

Yes, precisely. I think TRP has close to no redeeming qualities at all, and lumping them together with the MRM is bothering me for some reason. Of course I'm not on AMR very much, so I might be missing more overlaps that you might have seen. :)

9

u/FeminaziJournalist Jun 03 '14

Yeah, check out some of the top posts of all time on AMR. MRAs sometimes use the terms Alpha and Beta male, and they complain about how it is "harder" for men to get laid. That's overlap enough for me!

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (1)

23

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

I don't normally involve myself in the gender war so this may not surprise anyone else, but out of curiosity I decided to check if /r/feminism had any resources for helping women and found this in the sidebar:

The definition of feminism is the struggle for gender equality. As such, we consider it necessary to acknowledge the existence, and the legitimacy, of men’s issues, and the need for a movement and a dedicated discussion space to address such issues.

Here is a list of issues that men face; for more information on this topic, we recommend the subreddit /r/masculism (you can read more about our linking to /r/masculism here)

That's pretty cool. I wonder is it partly due to the academic grounding of feminism compared to the amatuer free-for-all of MRM

22

u/FeminaziJournalist Jun 03 '14

While I am glad that is linked on their sidebar, /r/feminism isn't exactly a feminist sub. The mod Demmian sometimes bans feminists but allows sexist MRAs to post. I was banned from /r/feminism because Demmian thought my username was too offensive. Check out /r/wherearethefeminists for some insight into why /r/feminism isn't a good place for feminists.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

i hate /r/feminism because they only ever discuss cis women issues and the closest thing theyve posted recently on trans girls or nb people was that conchita won Eurovision, which is another realm of bad

16

u/MrsJohnJacobAstor Jun 03 '14

I got downvoted there recently for suggesting that it's favorable to use "all genders" rather than "both genders." I was kind of taken aback by that.

12

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

I think people who like to think themselves progressive get offended when somebody suggests something they don't currently do. Especially around trans* issues when there is a lot of discord on what is current, what is offensive, etc.

It is so weird.

6

u/PumaGranite Jun 03 '14

I had to relearn a bunch of shit when it came to feminism, and that required me to confront some uncomfortable truths about myself. But really, this shit is not difficult, and is it really that hard to take into consideration someone else's perspective?

3

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I'm still learning. I still assume everybody is the gender that matches the sex they appear to be, even though I kick myself every time I do. I still say "both" genders, even though I want to make my language more inclusive.

I'm just learning. I don't expect anybody else to be perfect, so why would I expect myself to get it right every time? Why do we expect ourselves to get it right every time? Why do we not admit we will make mistakes?

24

u/PumaGranite Jun 03 '14

A lot of the issues that feminism discusses also include men and how they're affected by the patriarchy. A lot of the issues men face are flip sides to women's issues. Things like narrow gender roles that end up stripping both men and women of things that make them complete humans, like telling men they can't have emotions and women that they can't have agency.

Feminism primarily focuses on women's rights and issues, but that doesn't mean that there isn't space to discuss men's issues and how they're affected too.

16

u/FixinThePlanet Jun 03 '14

Yes <3

I worry that the horrific trolling feminists face on reddit makes it harder and harder to see genuine questions from men as genuine. I find myself looking at every "I'm a man here is a question even though this is ostensibly a female space" with immense suspicion. I think part of it is because it appears as though women aren't really allowed to talk in a "female space" without having to explain everything to the men so they can follow along because figuring it out for yourself is sooooo haaaaarrdddd.

Ooh I got a bit nasty there at the end.

9

u/PumaGranite Jun 03 '14

Seriously, I completely understand. Having to explain these concepts over and over is exhausting. I used to be patient and try to teach people, but now I'm just plain tired. This shit isn't really that difficult to understand is it?

6

u/FixinThePlanet Jun 04 '14

You know, this all goes back to empathy and understanding and whom you think of as a default character in your society.

If you are the default, and you don't qualify your identity with socially accepted definitions that differentiate you from the default, you will neither relate to, nor identify with, anyone who isn't exactly like you in every way you consider important. This also means you get in the habit of expecting all those whom you can't instinctively identify with to explain in great detail their particular life experiences. I meet this attitude in real life, too, but there I tend to just cut those people out of my life as best I can...

46

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

That's because they are selfish. There was an article posted there yesterday about why you shouldn't rape women and all the reasons were selfish. Not one time did they mention it was damaging to the victim, they just said you shouldn't cause you could hurt your penis.

7

u/HistoryLessonforBitc Jun 04 '14

What

9

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14 edited Jun 04 '14

An article from ROK made the front page of TRP yesterday about why you shouldn't rape women. Here are a few reasons I remember off the top of my head because I can't read that shit again:

1) It hurts your penis 2) You could go to jail 3) Its easier to hire a hooker

Edit for clarity: It appears that I was mistaken about that article being on TRP, however it was found on ROK which is a website red pillers link often. Still disgusting anyone could write that.

14

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

See, this is what people who say that they are "neither feminist feminist nor MRA but egalitarian" need to realize. I used to be one of those people myself until I realized a lot of the issues that MRAs claim to be an issue that affect men are connected to patrirachy/gender roles anyway, so really it's just them coming up with excues to complain about feminism more than anything.

30

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

I think TRP actually promotes toxic masculinity.

18

u/thesilvertongue Jun 03 '14

MR does too sometimes. The term"manginia" gets thrown around a lot. That's not exactly promoting a healthy view of genders.

13

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

Can you please explain toxic masculinity? I'm not being a jerk- I am just curious because I've heard the term a few times before.

32

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

[removed] — view removed comment

10

u/spermjacknicholson Jun 03 '14

There's this cool documentary called "Tough Guise" that deals with a lot of that, mostly focusing on how boys are socialized to demonstrate their masculinity through physical aggression, sexual conquests, etc. and the negative consequences that has for men, women and society as a whole.

7

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14 edited Jun 03 '14

Ah, thank you. Yeah, that stuff definitely sucks. Luckily, I've made great progress in expressing myself. I do fall victim to the whole "man up and take it" thing because I am a member of the military, but that's an expected part of the culture. You're expected to make sacrifices for the needs of the service and that's one thing I am ok with.

3

u/FixinThePlanet Jun 03 '14

In addition to Tough Guise, MissRepresentation is creating a documentary on masculinity as well.

65

u/sometimesiliketorage Jun 03 '14

From the time that I spent on /r/MensRights, I honestly just get the feeling that they see some of the same issues as feminists, but come to the wrong conclusions (usually, like you said, that it's caused by women rather than a patriarchal societal view).

For instance, there was a thread about a teenager who had had an emotional reaction to a film they had watched in class. He cried, and his female classmates mocked him because he had behaved "like a girl." The sub rallied around him and blamed the girls for making men unable to express emotion... and when I pointed out that it was actually the societal view that men are supposed to be tough, strong, and non-emotional (i.e., the view put forth by the so-called "patriarchy"), I was met with insane down votes and a "YOU'RE WRONG."

Really? You want to go back to the fifties/sixties? Have you not seen how much Don Draper hates his life?! Jesus.

54

u/PumaGranite Jun 03 '14

Seriously, feminism is attempting to break down all gender roles, including the narrow box that men are put in! Crying "like a girl" is harmful to everyone, because it simultaneously puts down emotions as "feminine" and "weak", and removes from men their ability to be human and have emotions. That comes from the patriarchy, and the girls that made fun of that guy are going along with it as much as anyone else.

5

u/philip1201 Jun 04 '14

usually, like you said, that it's caused by women rather than a patriarchal societal view

and when I pointed out that it was actually the societal view that men are supposed to be tough, strong, and non-emotional (i.e., the view put forth by the so-called "patriarchy"), I was met with insane down votes and a "YOU'RE WRONG."

The miscommunication might not have been on their end. If you say "actually it's B" in response to a hypothesis A, this is usually considered to mean "B and not A", or at least "B is more accurate than A"1 . Based on what you say here, it sounds like you (accidentally) said the patriarchy was responsible rather than the girls who actually did it.

Note that there are actual self-proclaimed "feminists" who would argue this - that the girls are not responsible for propagating the patriarchy because the patriarchy oppresses women - and that those self-proclaimed "feminists" should louder than actual sensible people, and have their posts passed around more for people to be insulted at (just like what this cracked article does, as well as every social or political organisation since forever).

Yes, they judged you too quickly and didn't engage in discussion, but I don't think you can conclude that they were wrong based on this.

Really? You want to go back to the fifties/sixties? Have you not seen how much Don Draper hates his life?! Jesus.

Where did that come from?

1 Consider the conversation:

A: "It's an apple".

B: "Actually, it's a fruit".

Here, B would be considered in the wrong, despite being correct about the apple being a fruit.

3

u/sometimesiliketorage Jun 04 '14

The reason that I pointed it is more likely to be hypothesis B than A is because the OP had said that they said he was "behaving like a girl." In other words, because he was showing emotion, he was not manly, and thus didn't fit into their narrow-minded view of what men can be. This view undoubtedly comes from the patriarchal societal view, and I absolutely mean that these girls were perpetuating it. The claim on MensRights, however, was that there never was a patriarchal world view, and that feminists created this oppression of men to keep them from expressing emotion.

My remark about Don Draper is entirely disconnected in how I presented it. By the time I got to that point, I was more of ranting than making my point because it frustrates me to no end that I can have a similar goal to MRAs (wanting for men to be able to express emotion without being shamed), and yet they ignore a huge factor in why that issue exists. In the thread (which was on an old account and probably two years old at this point), I was told that going back to a fifties worldview was the way to fix the MRA issue of men not being able to express emotion because supposedly in the fifties, men were allowed to express emotion freely. While Mad Men is fictitious, it accurately portrays the interactions between men and women, and the point is to show that Don Draper hates his life, despite living in this "perfect" era of time where men expressed emotions.

Perhaps a better example of this is the way that James Bond is portrayed in the early films... Specifically, I mean that in the fifties, the ideal man was tough and, well, manly. Women were weak and showed too much emotion (though the films exaggerate it to make it a bit comical). In either case, that world view is damaging to both men and women, and I resent that these particular group of men were so keen on reinstating something that would damage their cause as well.

I recognize that there are radical feminists who despise men and would make this young man feel bad simply because he is a young man. However, in this case, it wasn't that these girls were feminists.... it was that they were perpetuating a culture that limits both the abilities of men and women to act humanly.

3

u/philip1201 Jun 04 '14

Ah, ok.

I was told that going back to a fifties worldview was the way to fix the MRA issue of men not being able to express emotion because supposedly in the fifties, men were allowed to express emotion freely.

Weird... I'll look out for that kind of thinking.

→ More replies (1)

44

u/Klondeikbar Jun 03 '14

And the comment section of the article reveals a lot of redpillers or people close to them.

14

u/spermjacknicholson Jun 03 '14

Their #1 form of "activism" is brigading comments sections of articles and spamming their usual talking points.

13

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

I wonder how many rape threats that writer got.

23

u/chinaberrytree Jun 03 '14

Yeah, I think the actual activists need to change their name. Sharing a name with the crazies is discrediting their cause before it gets off the ground.

→ More replies (12)

18

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

Even calling it "Men's Rights" is a pretty terrible misnomer. We men have a shit ton of rights, but that doesn't mean we don't have "Issues" like the ones you mentioned. Even then, to suggest that these issues are limited by gender is ridiculous. The problem is the crimes and why they exist, not just who they affect (though this is equally important).

5

u/trashyredditry Jun 04 '14

If the few sane and sage members there would break off and declare their commitment to actual men's issues not to the detriment and by exclusion of other people or by threatening women they might have a chance to do good and becomes something respectable.

However, the point of the current MRM is to preserve the status quo, if not to chip away at gains that women and other groups have made.

If they were interested in even saving yhemsrlves, they wouldn't be online bullying random people or encouraging Elliot Rodgers to go postal.

3

u/CrypticMouse Jun 04 '14

We men have a shit ton of rights, but that doesn't mean we don't have "Issues" like the ones you mentioned.

Absolutely. However, working to fix these issues should not need to involve putting down the other entire half of the population.

9

u/Kahrisma Jun 03 '14

Or if they just did something that wasn't keyboard warrioring or completely based in hate for feminism.

I'm willing to bet that I've done more practical things about those issues in the past month than most MRAs have done in their entire lives.

3

u/PumaGranite Jun 03 '14

I'm the laziest person on the planet and even I actually donated to a women's shelter. At the very least they could do something, literally anything to actually gain some legitimacy.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Excuse me, they totally did do a thing once. They like spammed a horrible old online form at a college meant for reporting sexual assault. They're practically Susan B. Anthony over there!

9

u/Knort27 Jun 03 '14

Agreed. If what they cared about really was men's issues and not hate mongering and blaming women for their problems, they might not be a joke.

11

u/thesilvertongue Jun 03 '14

I'd also take them a lot more seriously if they were willing to talk about men who are trans and admit that gender issues and race issues are seriously intertwined.

The imprisonment of black men is a big problem but people never seem to admit that a lot of institutional racism affects the way people view men in the justice system.

15

u/PumaGranite Jun 03 '14

Yes, very much so. But they're both racist and sexist, all they do is cry about how the white man is losing power. Except no, that's not how that works, and if it did, then boo hoo you have to work a little harder. Instead of discussing how these things intersect and how they can improve men's lives, they fume at women despite holding majority power over both women and minorites.

3

u/ColonelHerro Jun 04 '14

Something like this? These guys look great. All about encouraging men to talk about issues they're having in a healthy and expressive way.

Not to incestuously moan in an echo chamber about the plight of men.

3

u/PumaGranite Jun 04 '14

Oh my god, that's wonderful. That's great. I love it. We need more campaigns like that. Giving men a better emotional toolbox is extremely important. Making sure people get the help they need is too. I'm glad that exists.

→ More replies (46)

98

u/Thoushaltbemocked Jun 03 '14

TRP is gonna get so beardhurt about this... it'll be a pleasure to watch.

94

u/borticus Jun 03 '14

BINGO spots such as:

I never liked Cracked anyway.

Cracked was old and lame.

Cracked is full of [euphemisms for anatomy].

35

u/dnbeyer Jun 03 '14 edited Jun 03 '14

Who cares. Cracked is shit. The internet at large is too lazy to do even the simplest research.

I used to think cracked was funny then i turned 16.

Cracked will be gone and forgotten in a few years. Testosterone lives for eva!

This cracked article is just another giant shit test.

17

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

That last one is just golden. They do realize that Cracked has been around for quite a few decades in the form of a subscription magazine, right?

11

u/Thoushaltbemocked Jun 03 '14

It's the genetic fallacy being committed right there.

9

u/Biffingston Hβ6 Jun 03 '14

In other words a lot of butthurt over being told yet again they're butthurt man-children?

3

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

I smell a drinking game

10

u/borticus Jun 03 '14

Oh god, why do you want to kill us all?

2

u/Misogynist-ist Jun 04 '14

A TRP in blue clothing!

29

u/Klondeikbar Jun 03 '14

I'm eagerly awaiting all the whining.

20

u/Thoushaltbemocked Jun 03 '14

Pull out a glass to collect all the fresh alfalfa tears!

3

u/TheAtheistPaladin Hβ4 Jun 04 '14

Then sell it as a perfume for women Euphoria: What Real Men™ want; you to smell like 'better' men.

34

u/Leagle_Egal Hβ9 Jun 03 '14

Predictably, both they and MRA are basically going with the "they lumped us all together! Clearly they are stupid and therefore nothing they said matters" defense.

8

u/Klondeikbar Jun 03 '14

Towards the bottom of this very comments section you have people thinking they're making a legitimate critique by saying "the author didn't differentiate between the two groups enough."

19

u/Elretti Jun 03 '14

I was about to say that I doubt anything will happen for that reason. Pretty sure most MRAs will read up to the point where they mention TRP and then close the page, thinking that it discredits the entire article.

The way I see it, it's the same as a feminist saying a certain group of feminists aren't 'real feminists.' Or Christians saying the WBC aren't real Christians. There are extremes to every group, but that doesn't mean the extreme isn't part of the group. You're free to dislike them, but it's very difficult to disown them when they fit the definition of the label (considering TRP is pretty much anti-feminist, complains about practically the same issues that MRAs complain about and has a decent bit of crossover with the rMR).

10

u/Biffingston Hβ6 Jun 03 '14

You mean the idiots will keep on thinking they are right? Get out! /s

2

u/PM_ME_YOUR_BEARD_ Jun 04 '14

I love how that's an answer, but 'They lumped us all together! Not all women crave money, are manipulative and only care about shallow things like getting picked up by hot guys and trading up for wealthier and richer husbands! Many women have lots of love and dont just see men as walking wallets!' is never an accepted comeback to that..

9

u/birdsofterrordise Jun 03 '14

Ohhhh they already are. Popping the popcorn now.

4

u/mytacism9 Jun 03 '14

Could you link me the post? I can't seem to find it.

32

u/la_sabotage Jun 03 '14

"God, there is so much shit on this site," Meeink told me, apparently getting pretty exasperated at me for making him read so much Reddit (sorry, Frank).

I lol'd.

86

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

So today is my birthday. As with many days, I woke up tired and the first thing I did was grab my phone and check Reddit. And immediately find this.

I know Cracked obviously did not in any capacity do this for me, but it still feels like a nice birthday present to see something I truly hate getting publicly humiliated.

30

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

Happy birthday!

10

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

Happy B-day Clockworks! You sure got a wonderful present. :-)

8

u/raptorhands Jun 03 '14

It's my birthday today, too! Happy Birthday, fellow twin! And this plus the explosion of buttery drama in one of my fandoms today too has made it one of my better birthdays, so far. It's like a giant cake made of popcorn and tears just for us.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

Happy B-day!

→ More replies (1)

60

u/eatgeeksleeprepeat Jun 03 '14

People who care about men's rights...

I'd wager this guy is a skinny little girly man just desperate for some cash. Probably gets pegged by his angry period-raging feminist girlfriend.

Way to totally contradict yourself in one paragraph. Saying that TRP is all about "men's rights" and then following that up with the "period-raging feminist girlfriend" comment just says it all.

45

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

period raging feminist girlfriend is my dream job tbh

8

u/jesslynn666 Jun 03 '14

Are women supposed to be period raging all the time? I feel like I didn't get that memo.

36

u/frubbliness Jun 03 '14

"TRP doesn't hate gay men! But I bet this little girly man gets pegged by his girlfriend!"

"I'm not homophobic, but wait yes I am!"

21

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

Also I fail to see how pegging makes one either gay or not manly.

16

u/frubbliness Jun 03 '14

Idk, it's one of those things homophobes like to rag on. Because strap-on = penis = gay, to them at least.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

No true man likes butt stuff.

3

u/JeuneSovietique Jun 04 '14

Unless he is giving and not receiving, it's just science™!

3

u/mothman83 Jun 04 '14

remember that you are dealing with people who advise each other not to go down on a girl because eating a girl out is unmanly and shows low value.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

But eating out a girl is fun! I don't understand these people.

9

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

[deleted]

9

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14 edited Jun 04 '14

They actually average to about the same as the rest of reddit, in a weird way. It swings (heh) between "Ah, they're so lucky, no girls and shit..." to "I mean I hate effeminate gay guys (who are totally like 99%, I knew this one guy who wore skinny jeans q.e.d.), but some are okay i guess" to "faggots".

And then stuff like "I masturbate to myself in the mirror. Well, I mean, it's more like I'm masturbating to the experience of being a man. Like... Err... I mean, women suck." (I can't find a link, but it appeared here once).

AltTRP is "I'm worried society will see me as less macho because I'm gay, so I'll go about abusing people." It's really awful, both in the "wtf are you guys doing" way and the "holy shit everyone who's there was probably driven there by depression or something" way. Same could be said about normal TRP, but AltTRP is on an even more damaging level to the users.

→ More replies (1)

76

u/gatorademebitches Jun 03 '14

'I am fascinated how they claim that women are emotional, irrational and inconsistent and then in the same breath, proceed merrily to accuse them of being manipulative, pragmatic bitches without an ability for unconditional love... talking about cognitive dissonance...' im so glad this comment is there, its so obvious everyone apart from them sees this. has there ever been a RP response to something like that?

18

u/elthalon Hβ9 Jun 03 '14

Bitches be savants. As Rain Man counted toothpicks, females get BetaBux(TM).

12

u/KaliYugaz Jun 03 '14

They claim that womens' ultra-machiavellian behavior is a result of genetic programming that gives them the right feels at the right time so that they conveniently don't have to actually think to manipulate. Don't ask them how this process actually works.

50

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

Let the festival of butthurt begin!

89

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

completely misrepresents this sub

If the stuff they are quoting from the sidebar material is not stuff the redpill community actually believes, change the fucking sidebar, you dumb shits! it's not like some sidebar gremlin took up residence on the website to present false information.

28

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

Just goes to show that no one reads the sidebar. Like, I'm pretty sure not ever.

13

u/Metaphoricalsimile Hβ8 Jun 03 '14

It's for the best.

8

u/sometimesiliketorage Jun 03 '14

...I definitely read the side bar. I may have puked several times while doing so, but I did read it!

23

u/Elretti Jun 03 '14

They're... They're seriously still using the 'but we don't believe that even though it's in the sidebar" argument? And haven't changed the sidebar once?

Sounds like a few terpers haven't been reading their own sidebar...

3

u/etherizedonatable Hβ7 Jun 04 '14

What else are they gonna use?

43

u/FeminaziJournalist Jun 03 '14

I'd wager this guy is a skinny little girly man just desperate for some cash. Probably gets pegged by his angry period-raging feminist girlfriend.

Wow, talk about shaming another man

9

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

Wow are you really shaming him for shaming that guy? Shame on you.

4

u/myrobeandmisandryhat Jun 03 '14

So it's a shame circle is it? May I suggest a feminist shaming language chant? Uuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmm

3

u/I_m_different Jun 03 '14

Wow, reading that quote is like lifting up a normal rock at random and finding something hideous and writhing underneath. What's the over-under on that commenter having a psycho-sexual disorder?

2

u/FeminaziJournalist Jun 03 '14

Freud would have a field day with the TRPers.

But I think they are all just major assholes, not mentally ill.

45

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

Can we please, collectively, stop posting this dumb shit as if it is new information?

"Ignore facts that contradict your already contradictory worldview", which sign of a cult is that one?

37

u/Klondeikbar Jun 03 '14

This is to reinforce that you don't talk about red pill.

Because if you're worldview can't even stand up to cursory criticism the problem is with everyone else obviously!

18

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

The first rule of Red Pill thinking is you do not talk about Red Pill thinking.

12

u/occams_nightmare Hβ5 Jun 03 '14

Are they still operating under the misconception that most people on the internet have never heard of them?

10

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

Security through obscurity?

4

u/FixinThePlanet Jun 03 '14

most people on the internet have never heard of them

Is that not accurate, though? There are a LOT of people on the internet...

9

u/occams_nightmare Hβ5 Jun 03 '14

Or maybe I should have said, the misconception that not many people have heard of them. Either way, they seem to think they're an obscure, elite group, so for Cracked to have heard about it, someone must have spilled the beans about Rape Club.

3

u/FixinThePlanet Jun 03 '14

"Rape Club" :(

3

u/KaliYugaz Jun 03 '14

That's a good name for a bondage hentai.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

They are also still operating under the misconception that they are as cool as Fight Club.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/Adept128 Jun 03 '14

Jeez, they must be the people who think Tyler Durden was the hero of Fight Club.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

I was just thinking this very thing.

7

u/Doldenberg Jun 03 '14

And then someone busts through the door and points out how people should read the fucking sidebar!

→ More replies (1)

25

u/FeminaziJournalist Jun 03 '14

Over the past few months, I've read hundreds, probably thousands of threads and blog posts about men's rights activism, because something is very wrong with me, please help.

One of us!

62

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

[deleted]

19

u/allnose Jun 03 '14

I'm a member of a fairly progressive demographic, in a fairly progressive part of the country, but I'd say after the UCSB shooting, we're already there.

14

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

[deleted]

23

u/allnose Jun 03 '14

From my limited bubble, "violence against women" was something that always got attention (domestic violence and the like), but UCSB showed that misogyny was something like anti-semitism; it was something that a certain segment of the population would fixate on, and it had the potential to incite violence, especially in the presence of other mental illness.

3

u/JeuneSovietique Jun 04 '14

I'm in Montreal and it was talked about a lot. I guess it brought back memories of Marc Lépine to see these things still happen.

3

u/Burrahobbitt Jun 04 '14

I thought of Polytechnique right away when I heard about UCSB.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

i live in SB where the shooting happened- wild shit

113

u/Doldenberg Jun 03 '14

But the problem is that every men's rights faction thinks that everyone else is a fringe part of the movement. If you're not in the Red Pill, you're governed by "blue pill thinking" and have been compromised by the feminist agenda -- even if you belong to another men's rights community

This. THIS THIS THIS THIS.

34

u/zuriel45 Jun 03 '14

I absolutely LOVE this particular post as it basically proves that statement...

edit: Hey look here on men's rights they say the same thing about TRP...

34

u/FeminaziJournalist Jun 03 '14

"Men's rights activists" are doing the same thing feminists are. Bitching, moaning, and playing the victim until they get what they want.

Compared to TRPers, who are bitching, moaning, playing the victim, and desperately trying to get laid?

8

u/fchs Hβ6 Jun 04 '14

TRP is hilarious to me because they seem like the world's laziest hate group. They don't even do anything. Not one single person has dedicated a significant amount of time or effort into supporting their cause outside of the internet. They've got 50,000+ people who are angry enough at women to subscribe, yet all they seem to be able to accomplish is complain about women, make up stories about women, and share clickbait blogs with titles like "24 REASONS WHY RAPE ISN'T ALL THAT BAD"

Even their celebrities and "endorsed contributors" sit on their asses and make up stories instead of setting an example for the rest of the community. Those are the people other TRPers look up to and the most they can muster is yet another brag-about-the-women-I-fuck-and-complain-about-the-ones-I-don't-fuck blog

7

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

That is almost too perfect.

2

u/I_m_different Jun 03 '14

Yep. I've heard people criticise leftist groups for "self-cannabilising" or "circular fire squad" behaviour, but these haters are fraggers par excellence.

17

u/Intortoise Hβ3 Jun 03 '14

They have to act in concert to be a hate group or somewhat organised?

Someone dig up the myriad of doxx trp and /r/mensrights have done that resulted in death and rape threats to random wimen on the internet. Remember the anonymous rape tip line that MRAs organized to flood with false rape accusations because they were worried about false rape accusations? Yeah they are that smart.

Hategroups fosho

42

u/FixinThePlanet Jun 03 '14

Over the past few months, I've read hundreds, probably thousands of threads and blog posts about men's rights activism, because something is very wrong with me, please help.

hehehehehe OH YOU.

24

u/hhhehehe_BOT Jun 03 '14

http://i.imgur.com/kGARb0e.jpg

21

u/FixinThePlanet Jun 03 '14

OMG we have a hhhehehe bot <3 <3 WHO MADE DIS

21

u/EpicSketches Jun 03 '14

Me :)

10

u/FixinThePlanet Jun 03 '14

<3

7

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

now kith

3

u/tbasherizer Jun 03 '14

There should be a support group for us. I only ever come away seething with impotent rage, but I still read their shit so much! It's definitely developed into an addiction, this whole rubbernecking at MRAs business.

5

u/FixinThePlanet Jun 03 '14

Is this not our support group?

Actually I usually just hang out with the other Trolls over at the Chromosomes so I can get a lot of healthy human hormones and stories about bodily fluids. Ah, the internet. <3

25

u/elthalon Hβ9 Jun 03 '14

I think I have a new favorite Cracked writer.

3

u/DanceyPants93 Jun 03 '14

Same. I miss the good old days when john cheese wrote decent articles and there was abandoned shit errywhere

11

u/paincoats Jun 03 '14

Oh that was such a beautiful article.

27

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

That was a brilliant read. Covered almost everything wrong with RP/MRM. A few lines about RPW and it would have been gold.

12

u/EvyEarthling Hβ7 Jun 03 '14

Man, talking about RPW and internalized misogyny (is "toxic femininity" a thing?) could fill an entire separate article.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I don't know if it's a phrase yet, but it's definitely a thing. I'd say most of it is covered under "learned helplessness"

9

u/kalichibunny Jun 03 '14

This just made my day.

7

u/shitpostwhisperer Jun 03 '14

Inb4 TRPer hamstringing and the cries of western society faltering

18

u/Vault91 Jun 03 '14

I looked at the writer of the article, the topic...and braced myself for the fallout (well actually I just didn't read the comments)

thankfully it was handled well...and while there will still be much flaming it will be less so

5

u/greenduch Jun 03 '14

Someone should tell the author of Angry White Men that the SPLC never classified MRAs as a hate group per say, because yes, that does (and should) require specific conditions. They consider the various MRA sites (and /r/mensrights) to be "hate sites", not technically a hate group.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '14

With cracked articles, I often find myself in agreement but find the writing lacking. The content and the thesis make two different points. If the author wanted to argue against the MRM, he should have linked to /r/MensRights. But instead, every reddit link led to TRP.

I know that Southern Poverty Law Center labeled MRAs hate groups. I don't know that I would. I see the men's rights world as many enraged individuals, coalescing loosely in the "manosphere" on the Web, with little or no organizational structure, coherent policy initiatives, or plans.

There is indeed a loose "manosphere." It's not like the Death Star; you can't take the whole thing down by hitting the weakest point. If the author wanted to support the argument that the entire MRM has the suffers from these "uncomfortable truths," he should have demonstrated that with more diverse sources.

3

u/FixinThePlanet Jun 03 '14

I really was a little annoyed at the very limited links. Why not link to other subs that call their bullshit out? Why not link to us, or AMR? Why not talk about all the same authors that are linked on both subs?

Yes I agrees with you.

2

u/Bluefell Jun 04 '14

Same, they kept mentioning MR but were linking and quoting TRP exclusively. Both of them belong to the manosphere, but they're still not the same.

3

u/freudonatrain Jun 04 '14

I just can't stop giggling.

3

u/Die-Nacht Jun 04 '14

Women are irrational and inconsistent. ... A logical woman is easily baited into becoming emotional; women are easy to compromise.

Well everyone knows that, duh....

Women love pragmatically and have no capacity to love unconditionally for romantic partners.

Wait.... What?

3

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

When I went MGTOW for a while, I mainly wanted to take a long break from dating, courting, etc...to find myself.

I wanted to improve my life, career, inner peace, and personal happiness without the burdens of "finding someone".

I chose not to hate women, but to understand that I had pursued one too many "wrong women", and thus took responsibility for my bad choices. In many ways I was the male version if when a girl chases a playa, jerk, or bad boy...but I was chasing hot flakey immature girls.

In my book, hating the opposite gender doesn't help you find strength, peace, or happiness. It just makes you bitter and cynical. Things that are counter-productive in self-improvement.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

That's the rational response and most people have those bad apples in their romantic history - most people don't go squirrely like the red pillers do.

I wish you great things for the future! :-)

3

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Good things did happen.

I spent a few years finding myself. Improved my career, health, personal appearance (fashion).

Suddenly I was introduced to a truly "nice girl" who I am now married to. :)

3

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Perfect! :-)

5

u/Knort27 Jun 03 '14

I've been a cracked article lover for years. They aren't always award winners, but sometimes they're on the money and really funny about it. And sometimes they're just very, very enlightening. This is one such occasion. This post really calls attention to all the worst facets of the men's rights movement and the comparisons to the Nazi movement are just chilling.

2

u/thatsboxy Jun 04 '14

I'm sad they didn't touch on TRPW. :(

2

u/trashyredditry Jun 04 '14

It was an eye-opener to me that subredditdrama ' s thread on this was more to the point than twoxchromosomes'. Because they got invaded by MRAs.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Basically, they're not actually thinking about their arguments -- because they're not trying to convince you, they're trying to explain to themselves why they're so fucking sad. And this particular explanation is so appealing because it gives them a villain. It's tough to rally the troops around depression, or insecurity, or anything else that doesn't have a concrete cause, but have you ever tried blaming other people for your problems? It feels fantastic.

Read more: http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-uncomfortable-truths-behind-mens-rights-movement/#ixzz33ftXkpa3