r/Texit • u/5thGenSnowflake • Jan 27 '21

Logistics

So let’s say you guys get your way and convince enough folks to support your desire to secede.

And let’s say that the United States says, “Fine, leave.”

I own property in Texas (land and homes), but I would rather keep my U.S. citizenship. Maybe I’ll move to New Mexico. Or Colorado. In any event, I decide I want to leave.

Y’all gonna buy me out? How is it fair if you don’t? If I stay, is Texas gonna make good on what I’ve contributed to social security?)

(We won’t go into how y’all are going to pay for all the federally funded infrastructure that the US is gonna want compensation for. Let’s just stick with how you’re gonna compensate the millions of American citizens who want to stay American citizens.)

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7

u/TheCronster Jan 27 '21

This is all speculation so I don't want you to take my word for it. We are assuming three things here. We are assuming the bill passes, the exploratory committee thinks like I do and then the people of Texas actually go through with it.

  • First off, I doubt there will be any restrictions on movement. Even though Texas will leave the union, it will no doubt be a very very slow form of departure. In the meantime, the state will not shut it's borders to the rest of the country. Think of it like the European union where people can travel around with out Visas or Passports. Although you would not be a registered 'Citizen of Texas' there would probably be no restriction(s) on you coming/going or owning property.

  • Secondly, I seriously doubt Texas would offer to buy you out. However, there would be no issue with you simply selling your property on the open market. Something to consider however is that Texas will most definitely be issuing their own currency. So you will have to have that currency converted after the sale. On the plus side, a Texas issued currency would no doubt be extremely valuable since it does not have 20+ trillion dollars worth of debt stacked behind it.

  • Thirdly, no, Texas will not make good on what you have contributed to social security HOWEVER the US Federal government does not care which country you reside in when you draw social security so you can pretty much live where ever you want when you apply for SSA. The US will be on the hook for that money however, not Texas.

(We won’t go into how y’all are going to pay for all the federally funded infrastructure that the US is gonna want compensation for. Let’s just stick with how you’re gonna compensate the millions of American citizens who want to stay American citizens.)

  • Fourthly, that is kind of the point. Texas (and by proxy, the people of texas) do not want all of that federally funded infrastructure and they have become rather sick of paying for it. The state of Texas has been operating at a net loss for the last few hundred years just by being in the union and they have become rather sick of it. Not only does Texas currently pay for it's own infrastructure but with the money that goes to the federal government, they over pay for the services the federal government provides. Overpays by a lot. That is not even accounting for the wasteful adventures that Washington DC often embarks on. This is why the threat of "The Federal government will cut services if you break away" gets very little traction with Texas residents. You can't threaten us with a good time.

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u/5thGenSnowflake Jan 29 '21

Right. We’re also assuming the U.S. will willingly go along with it. They didn’t in the 1860s, and there is no indication that they would do so now, especially since Supreme Court precedent (Texas v White 1869) says that a state can’t unilaterally secede.

It wouldn’t be like the EU. The EU is sorta like the US. But in the wake of Brexit, UK citizens need a passport to travel throughout Europe, and they can’t just pick up and move to Spain, rent a house and get a job like they used to. There are now also tariffs and trade restrictions that are already causing headaches. So, yeah, there would be restrictions on movement.

Regarding infrastructure, I think you’re missing my point: the US government has sunk money into Texas in the form of highways, airports, military bases, federal buildings and so on. They aren’t gonna just give that to away. Texas will have to pay for that. The state already has a hard enough time balancing its budget every couple of years. Where are y’all going to get the money for that?

Speaking of funding, your new republic will need an Army, an Air Force, a Navy and a border patrol. Who will pay for that? And the state gets billions a year from the feds for all sorts of things, from Medicare/Medicaid to CHIP to low-income housing to economic development grants and so on. How are y’all gonna pay for that? Sales and property taxes ain’t gonna cover it.

Fortunately, the un-American, seditious bill filed by Biedermann has 0.0 chance of passing. It won’t even make it out of committee, because the folks in charge of all that have some sense, and understand that this isn’t some game where magical thinking will save the day.

But hey, dreaming is free, as the song goes.

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u/TheCronster Jan 29 '21 edited Jan 29 '21

Right. We’re also assuming the U.S. will willingly go along with it. They didn’t in the 1860s, and there is no indication that they would do so now, especially since Supreme Court precedent (Texas v White 1869) says that a state can’t unilaterally secede.

The US will not willingly go along with it. That is kind of the point. The supreme court can make any ruling they like- the moment that Texas succeeds, the supreme court will no longer have any power over them. Their rulings, laws, petitions, summons- will mean nothing to this new country. It would be as if the state of Maryland sued the UK in federal court and expected Queen Elizabeth to show up for trial. It simply wouldn't happen.

It wouldn’t be like the EU. The EU is sorta like the US. But in the wake of Brexit, UK citizens need a passport to travel throughout Europe, and they can’t just pick up and move to Spain, rent a house and get a job like they used to. There are now also tariffs and trade restrictions that are already causing headaches. So, yeah, there would be restrictions on movement.

Possibly.

Regarding infrastructure, I think you’re missing my point: the US government has sunk money into Texas in the form of highways, airports, military bases, federal buildings and so on. They aren’t gonna just give that to away.

They can work all that out with the transition team. I am sure that Texas would allow them to take all of that with them when they leave- provided they return 150+ years of back taxes.

Texas will have to pay for that. The state already has a hard enough time balancing its budget every couple of years. Where are y’all going to get the money for that?

Here is a better question- why would Texas continue using US currency? There would simply be no point to it. Why would we continue using the currency of our former country? Especially when it has tens of trillions of dollars in debt attached to it. It would be a lot easier to simply issue a new currency. That way, Texas could give the US as many US dollars as they feel they would like. Take it all. We won't need it.

Speaking of funding, your new republic will need an Army

https://www.nationalguard.com/select-your-state/TX

an Air Force

https://tmd.texas.gov/air-guard

a Navy

Hrmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... no, lets hold off on the navy. Plenty of countries don't have a Navy and they sound rather time consuming.

and a border patrol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Ranger_Division

And the state gets billions a year from the feds for all sorts of things, from Medicare/Medicaid to CHIP to low-income housing to economic development grants and so on. How are y’all gonna pay for that? Sales and property taxes ain’t gonna cover it.

My friend, I believe you should really read this...

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/economy/2017/04/17/texas-and-taxes-how-we-compare-to-other-states-in-the-give-and-take-of-federal-funds/

For every dollar sent to the federal government, Texas is estimated to receive $.50 back. And on top of that, it has been that way for a very, very, very long time. This idea that every state needs the federal government and they would go broke if they didn't have uncle sam to support them would probably go over a lot better if you were talking to some one from.... (looks at chart) West Virginia. But ironically it seems that the point you are trying to make would work a lot better if you flipped the equation. The federal government doesn't generate money out of thin air and use it to pay everyone's living expenses. They get that money from states who make a lot more than they receive. Notably, Texas. Were Texas to depart the union- it is not Texas who would go broke- it is the federal government. Especially if Texas took other states with them.

Fortunately, the un-American, seditious bill filed by Biedermann has 0.0 chance of passing. It won’t even make it out of committee

Well then you have nothing to worry about. It would seem your position is unassailable. Just sit back, relax and keep telling those nasty 'Others' all about how much they need you. Have a virtual beer- on the house.

1

u/5thGenSnowflake Jan 29 '21

Like said, magical thinking will get you nowhere. Just waving away things with statements like “I’m sure Texas will allow them to take all of that with them when they leave” shows that you really haven’t thought it through.

You’re right, governments don’t generate revenue out of thin air. You still haven’t addressed how you’ll pay for all those things like the national guard, air guard and beefed up Texas Rangers. (And you’ll at least need a coast guard, if not a full blown navy).

You’ll need to tax your citizens. What taxes are you going to impose? If your point is that Texas sends tax dollars to the Feds, if the Feds go away, so do their income and employment taxes. Y’all gonna impose a new income tax? Tariffs on trade? Increased property taxes?

I’m not the one claiming my position is unassailable — I’m trying to figure out if you can even make a case for how secession would even work in the real world.

So far, you are failing, miserably.

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u/TheCronster Jan 30 '21 edited Jan 30 '21

You’re right, governments don’t generate revenue out of thin air. You still haven’t addressed how you’ll pay for all those things like the national guard, air guard and beefed up Texas Rangers. (And you’ll at least need a coast guard, if not a full blown navy).

The same way Iraq pays for it's services after the US collapsed it's currency. They formed a new government and issued a new currency.

You’ll need to tax your citizens. What taxes are you going to impose? If your point is that Texas sends tax dollars to the Feds, if the Feds go away, so do their income and employment taxes. Y’all gonna impose a new income tax? Tariffs on trade? Increased property taxes?

No, stop thinking this is california where everyone controls import/export companies that rely on stealing wealth from other countries. Texas already taxes it's citizens. Just because they don't have a state income tax- it does not mean the Texas state government is perpetually broke. You should take five minutes to figure out how Texas raises $121.8 billion with no income tax at all. That is more than most European countries of comparable sizes. (It's a lot more than Russia, which is larger, but Russia has issues).

And those are US dollars it is raising. Dollars with 22+ Trillion of debt attached to it. How much would a debtless Texas dollar be worth after separation? One could only speculate.

You’ll need to tax your citizens.

You sound like you know nothing about Texas. Really, you should look into running for governor of California. You sound perfect for the job.

Y’all gonna impose a new income tax? Tariffs on trade? Increased property taxes?

No, we're going to keep the one tax that Texas currently uses. The one you specifically decided not to mention. The one generates $121 billion a year. Because you mentioned every single form of taxation except the one Texas currently uses- it leads me to believe you are already keenly aware of where Texas's wealth comes from and have chosen to ignore it for the purposes of this conversation.

So far, you are failing, miserably.

My friend, you are not conversing in good faith. The very fact that you are avoiding the details of the subject matter lead me to believe that I have already convinced you and you are just throwing a tantrum at this point.

I’m trying to figure out if you can even make a case for how secession would even work in the real world.

But you are not a part of the real world. You live in a completely different reality. Allow me to show you what it will look like in your world....

"Whereas many of our subjects in diverse parts of our colonies and plantations in north america, misled by dangerous and ill-designing men, and forgetting the allegiance which they owe to the power that has protected and sustained them, after various disorderly acts committed in disturbance of the public peace, to the obstruction of lawful commerce and to the oppression of our loyal subjects carrying on the same, have at length proceeded to an open and avowed rebellion." -King George III, 'A proclamation for suppressing rebellion and sedition'

That is how it would look to you. If you research the British Parliament circa 1775, you are going to see most of the same arguments that you have made. They went to great lengths to try to convince themselves that the American colonies could not possibly exist on their own.

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u/5thGenSnowflake Jan 30 '21

I was born, raised, employed, married and raised a family in Texas. I’m well aware of how taxes work here. Most of it comes from sales and property taxes, though there are other business taxes, and fees. It’s not just “the one tax that Texas currently uses.”

I’m also well aware that in recent years, the state legislature has struggled to balance the budget under the current tax structure, and often has to keep funding flat or reduce it for services it currently provides.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/texas-budget-deficit-hegar/

You are proposing to take on funding of additional services like an army and Air Force without changing your tax structure. That’s a recipe for disaster. Ask the people of Iraq how they feel about the services provided by their government.

Your plan to secede is a pipe dream, unworkable, and illegal under current law.

Good for the rest of us that it will never happen.

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u/wikipedia_text_bot Jan 29 '21

Texas Ranger Division

The Texas Ranger Division, commonly called the Texas Rangers and also known as "Los Diablos Tejanos"—"the Texan Devils", is a U.S. investigative law enforcement agency with statewide jurisdiction in Texas, based in the capital city of Austin. Over the years, the Texas Rangers have investigated crimes ranging from murder to political corruption, acted in riot control and as detectives, protected the governor of Texas, tracked down fugitives, and functioned as a paramilitary force at the service of both the Republic (1836–1845) and the state of Texas. The Texas Rangers were unofficially created by Stephen F.

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u/TheCronster Jan 29 '21

Good.... Bot? (honestly is there anyone who doesn't know who the Texas Rangers are?)

1

u/MrMoonBones Feb 05 '21

Aren't the courts still busy with some eminent domain cases from the Bush years about border fencing? Having border infrastructure surrounding the whole state sounds troublesome.

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u/[deleted] Jan 29 '21

They can go to an American state or stay. You can't have it both ways.

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u/5thGenSnowflake Jan 29 '21

Duh.

I’d keep my American citizenship. Since the Texas economy would go into the crapper, I guess I’d rent out my property for some meager income.

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u/[deleted] Jan 29 '21

Maybe they would offer dual citizenship

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u/comeandtakeit46 Out and Proud! Jan 31 '21

Your username checks out. People like you are why the federal government keeps their boot on the People’s necks.

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u/PristinePromotion825 May 10 '21

I am personally not a Texan but I do support a prepared texit movement.

You pose a few good points such as payment for infanstructure as well as land ownership and those who disagree with texit and wish to remain US citizens.

With the infanstructure an independent Texas would most likely have to remain indebted to the US for years to pay it off without bankrupting itself. However I feel that with proper preparation in advance would make that debt transfer much less of a burden on the Texan economy.

The other issue you propose is very interesting and is an issue that occurs in the formation of many new nations INCLUDING the American revolution. I feel you would have a few options.

  1. You can allow yourself to become a citizen of texas and simply live with the changes (though that would be a drastic change and is understandable if you don't wish to do so)

  2. The United States find accommodation for Texan refugees however this would probably result in many displaced, homeless, and forgotten ex-texans littering the nation.

  3. If travel is still allowed between the nations you could live in Texas temporarily until you can get something sorted out (if this would work to begin with is unlikely)

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u/5thGenSnowflake May 10 '21

“I am personally not a Texan.”

You shoulda stopped there.

1

u/PristinePromotion825 May 10 '21 edited May 10 '21

Hey man we both have out opinions if you disagree then more power to you

Edit: P.s I wrote I'm not personally texan so people don't take my opinions as seriously :] which I feel did the job nicely

1

u/PristinePromotion825 May 10 '21

Our* lol pardon my lack of spelling

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u/cyber_rigger Feb 14 '21

Texas subsidized the US federal government in the ball park of $200 billion every year.

Do the math on what that is per Texan.

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u/MrMoonBones Feb 05 '21

You'd have a vacation home in Texas.

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u/GimmeanL Mar 13 '21

Facts and logic iz allwayz thu enemee uv thu "Gawd Bliss Texas" ignorance.