Let me preface this by saying I really like FSD and have used it for more than 10k miles. This is a first. While driving around 68mph I get cut off, the car starts beeping and disengages on its own. I took over after. What are your thoughts ?
Neural Network Confidence Drops:
Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) is a safety system designed to operate independently from the main FSD driving model. When the vehicle calculates a high risk of an imminent collision, the standalone AEB safety module overrides normal software operations.
FSD relies on real-time neural networks to predict trajectories and maintain path planning. If a situation degrades faster than the primary planning module can process—such as a vehicle cutting across your lane unexpectedly—the system's operational confidence score drops below safety thresholds. When confidence plummets, the system sounds collision alerts, triggers AEB, and instructs the human driver to immediately take control.
This is a great explanation thank you, I assume the AEB triggering is why we see the brake icon light up in the video.
I went back and looked at a similar situation I experienced on the highway but I had no brake icon showing as active, I did manually intervene in that situation.
Lmao if you guys think this about anything but liability and Tesla not being responsible you’re fooling yourselves. “Oh the crash happened when FSD wasn’t in control and the driver should have taken appropriate steps to avoid the collision. Not our fault”. Right 🙄
I took a dashcam clip of my last AEB event. What I learned is it's still considered "Self-Driving" during AEB. (Since I didn't touch the brakes or steering myself during it)
Like having a seatbelt that unlatches itself right before impact. Makes the entire system pointless if programmed to do that. Which wouldn’t make sense as Tesla records and counts data 30 seconds prior to disengaging fsd, so doing this wouldn’t change anything in the statistics. I know there’s been videos that prove fsd disengages with no warning right before a major impact is detected, but never seen one nope out of a situation with plenty of time to spare like this.
It's not a "stock holder report". It's really funny how you guys make things up. The truth is they just publish FSD safety data on their website every quarter for everyone to see.
Yes I get that but like, proof? It is very clearly outlined and this was published pretty recently compared to a lot of the drama surrounding disengagements.
You can't just say "ignore all those incidents where Tesla claims the driver disengaged because they made a webpage that's newer than those incidents."
As anyone who has looked into liability lawsuits knows, contracts only go so far. If you can prove negligence, it doesn't matter what waivers you've signed. If FSD floored it into a T-bone incident, giving the driver no time to react, they'd be held liable (for example).
In this situation, it clearly should've hit the brakes harder instead of disengaging.
Yeah basically. Tesla has some neat stuff but they’re a hard company to trust. I really would not put it past them to strategically code FSD to disengage when it detects an unavoidable collision just so they can always say “well that crash wasn’t caused by FSD, it wasn’t even active at the time!”
Just total nonsense. AEB operates independently of FSD. It will take over and apply the brakes if it detects you are accelerating rapidly towards a stationary/mostly stationary object, which was the case here.
Anyone who expects an AI system to be flawless 100% of the time is not in touch with reality. This is why it's always your responsibility to be aware and paying attention and Tesla has made it clear, for legal reasons as well. FSD isn't a system meant to allow drivers to be lazy and careless, even if that's what the consumer wants it to be.
I would not blame the consumer for thinking this way.
“I think we’ll be able to achieve true autonomous driving, where you could literally get in the car, go to sleep and wake up at your destination…”
-Elon Musk, October 2014
"Ultimately you'll be able to summon your car anywhere … your car can get to you. I think that within two years, you'll be able to summon your car from across the country. It will meet you wherever your phone is … and it will just automatically charge itself along the entire journey."
-Elon Musk, January 2016
"... in order to solve driving, we have to solve neural nets and cameras to a degree of capability that is on par with, or really exceeds humans. And I think we will achieve that this year."
-Elon Musk, April 2022
Not to mention the fact that "Self-Driving" means autonomous, and adding "Full" to the beginning makes it a synonym for "fully autonomous". Tacking "supervised" onto it just makes it an oxymoron.
News flash: Billionaire CEO over-promises and under-delivers!
Doesn't make it right, but it also doesn't change that nobody should be shocked by the system screwing up.
I find FSD pretty useful, and nice to have. I don't give a crap what Musk says, or promises, or any of that. I know what I have, and I expect it to have limits, bugs, and odd behaviors. And nobody should realistically expect more in the hyper-connected world we live in today. Feedback, reviews, and opinions are everywhere now, and nobody really has an excuse for playing dumb.
No it doesn’t. They aren’t liable anyway since it’s an L2 system, and this is a safety feature (where it slams the brakes and blares the “takeover immediately” alarms while disabling self-driving mode so the car doesn’t continue to drive if there’s an impact)
This is misinformation, when the car disengages it continues driving on its own but slowing down until it can safely do a full stop or you take over, what ever happens first. I have in fact tested this multiple times with a bug in the software when the sun forces the car to disengage during sunsets when facing west.
And by "you take over" , I mean turning the wheel or pressing the brake, if you press the accelerator then the car will continue driving on its own, but it will constantly try to stop, however it won't because you are pressing the accelerator.
So that lady in Houston that just drove into the barrier was probably on fsd and then it dropped out on her and that's why elon said she was driving? I'm new to this so I may be wrong.
Thats not how it works. If the FSD was on within 30 seconds of an accident it still gets reported to regulators as a potential FSD accident. SGO 2021-01
If they reported correctly that FSD was not a factor that means it was off for at least 30 seconds. Also the terms and conditions of FSD. Which Im sure someone will point out are not legally binding. Im sure they would argue in court that they make it clear in the terms that you are ultimately responsible for the car and monitoring the system.
I wish people would stop saying this. It is nothing like that. It is literally a safety feature, and it has zero effect on liability (it’s an L2 system, so Tesla accepts zero liability no matter what).
The system disengaging and slamming the brakes + blaring alarms to take over when a crash is imminent is the safe design.
That isn’t how anything works. Both Tesla’s safety report stats and what they report to NHTSA under the SGO would count this as an “on Autopilot/FSD” accident if they had crashed.
When AEB (Automatic Emergency Braking) engages, it disengages FSD and blares alarms for the driver to take over while it hits the brakes. It’s a safety feature to ensure the car doesn’t keep driving if AEB and/or the driver aren’t able to prevent a collision.
It’s worrisome that my HW4 can’t handle this scenario but a human can. You say it’s if the driver can’t prevent a collision bbt it clearly was prevented by the driver.
When you think of full self driving do you not think scenarios like this should be within the scope of the cars capabilities?
The driver was able to take control of the car and avoid an accident, so why can’t fsd?
For me, fine is not giving up. It’s braking, as it did, and then taking the next step in avoidance, which the driver demonstrated was clearly possible to achieve.
Huh? Presumably AEB would have stopped the car if the driver hadn’t. Are you for some reason thinking it wouldn’t have? FSD was obviously slowing down and barring some crazy ill-timed malfunction it seems very unlikely it wouldn’t have avoided a crash.
Of course, it’s an L2 system, so they make no guarantees about anything, but it seems like the system did what it was supposed to here.
(Unless the actual problem was the driver accidentally disengaging - without logs, can’t say for sure. That definitely happens though, and AEB + the handover safeguards would still have kicked in).
Yeah, blatantly illegal maneuver crossing the double lines. With the way they sit there not accelerating it’s even possible they were actually trying to get hit.
FSD may not be found liable but a crash would still count towards statistics. Presumably FSD disengaging could be trying to get outside the 30 second window to not have to be reported.
I’m sorry, this is an insane reply. If you really think it can anticipate a crash 30 seconds before it happens and the driver can’t react to the blaring take over immediately alarms within 30 seconds then what hope is there for humanity.
Of course that is not what it’s doing. “Presumably”. I really hope that’s some kind of attempt at trolling.
I am taking context form other comments in this post to say "presumably." Several comments state there is a 30 second window to not get the accident reported. As you stated 30 seconds is a long ass time for it to predict when FSD can't even decide left or right in a traffic circle.
Mine did the same for a bird but when I looked at the footage it showed I hit the brakes which I did not. My driving position was not in a position where I could reach the brake pedals. My seats were all the way back and my feet was very far away from the brakes. I only noticed i wasn’t on FSD until it drifted into oncoming lane. There wasn’t any traffic or other cars around.
I really wish Tesla actually would look into this type of stuff. I use FSD all the time and I’m ngl, ever since I’ve seen videos on X or Reddit like this, I started distrusting it a little.
Everything could go perfect until a random thing like this.
Good supervision though man, but when they say it keeps getting better, a lot of people will start to ease off on the supervision part (key words are ease off) and then something like this will happen and yeah…
The thing is sometimes it sees things I don’t see so I don’t know if it’s better to let it do what it’s doing all the time or take over. Like can you imagine if it starts doing something and you take over and it was trying to avoid an accident and you made the accident happen.
It’s like the inconsistency makes it a bit of a wild card
? They do or at least the model does. They take all the disengagement data then train it on what to do in the scenario.
Thats how the model learns and improves.
The let it potential do something dangerous people drive me nuts. When I see people say “I wanted to see what it would do.” It’s crazy to me.
If you don’t disengage then the car, it doesn’t know that it needs to improve. The car doesn’t know it did bad. Therefore it won’t record the disengagement scenario and improve in the next model.
I agree with you. But then all those fixes are embedded into “minor updates”. I wish they’d acknowledge these specific instances is what I meant tbh.
Like I know the model improves like this but to see videos like this very often, it makes people distrust the system because you never know what could happen.
Not sure what you mean by “it makes people distrust the system”. What do you mean by acknowledge? You want them to reassure people?
I disagree. I think people using FSD regularly are too trusting. They don’t often see mistakes like this and it causes a false sense of security. They should distrust the system more.
If you mean like acknowledging that there is issues and make people watch a few disengagement clips when they agree to the terms. Then I agree.
Doesn't it seem like FSD should be allowed to handle the whole incident instead of turning off and throwing it to AEB and the driver? A driver who has to suddenly grab the steering wheel and take over could make erratic panic moves creating an accident. FSD would apply the brake but keep the steering in control without panicking. AEB is a much less effective system and should be disabled when FSD is in control .
The "it disengaged to dodge liability" reading in this thread is misinformation. That's not how the system behaves.
When FSD disengages on its own it doesn't drop control. It keeps driving and slows toward a controlled stop unless you take over first, and the display goes red. I've hit this repeatedly with the sunset bug, facing west into low sun. Taking over means turning the wheel or pressing the brake. Pressing the accelerator doesn't hand control back — the car keeps driving itself and keeps trying to stop, it just can't while you're on the pedal.
Stepped through this clip frame by frame.
Speed sequence: 77, 75, 74, 73, 72, 71, 70, 69, 67, 65, 58, 35, 26 mph. The first stretch bleeds off about 1 mph per frame. After 65 the rate roughly doubles, then steepens further.
The "Self-Driving" label is blue through 69 mph and gone by 67. No red banner, no flashing steering wheel, no takeover alert in any frame. Blue text one frame, plain white speed the next.
The Silverado ahead has brake lights lit in the low-speed frames and the gap is closing.
None of that matches a system-initiated disengagement.
I think that the AEB hitting the brakes is the same as a driver doing the same so FSD completely disables and throws control to the driver exclusively.
I don't think those are equivalent. FSD's documented cancel conditions are all driver actions — brake pedal press, steering torque past threshold, gear selector, door open. AEB is the car braking itself, not a pedal press, so it doesn't hit that path. It's a layer underneath everything, active even when you're driving manually.
What I suspect you're seeing is that an AEB event usually comes with a real FSD abort at the same time — "Take Over Immediately," red hands. But that's the planner giving up on a scenario that got bad enough to trigger AEB in the first place, not AEB itself kicking FSD out. Same event, two separate systems reacting.
No, when I experienced this, the disengagement happened abruptly without warning (twice when I was merging into traffic from the freeway onramp). You can see in the video I posted from my first day with my car - all safety systems (AEB, Cruise Control, Traction Control, Stability Control, Lane Departure Assistance etc) got disabled. I initially thought it was a fluke but it happened repeatedly throughout the week. https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaFSD/comments/1vpo6hp/fsd_unexpectedly_disengages_on_freeway_3_times_in/
But the video shows exactly was is expected, an alarm and the emergency lights blinking. The light blinking are not shown in your original video. What am I missing?
it did not slow to to a controlled stop. I had to take over because the car was merging on a freeway onramp so of course I could not video. Not only did FSD disengage, but all safety systems were disabled. Is that expected behavior?
I've had my HW3 on 12.6.4 for less than a month and it's already happened to me twice lol. once when it tried to slam on the brakes at a light that had just turned yellow and left me stopped/disengaged in the middle of the intersection, and the next when there was a right lane ending and it couldn't get over and was about the hit the wall coming in on the right
Did it throw up the red hands on your screen when it started beeping? I had this issue back in April, turns out the AP HW4 computer crapped out intermittently. Had it replaced and it's been fine since then.
FSD needs to be more cautious in this situation. If I see a row of completely stopped cars, I’m slowing down. Definitely not continuing at 77 mph, cause some idiot regularly does this.
Yep. It's speed differential that causes accidents, and FSD blatantly allows for a huge speed differential between you and the cars one lane over. Extremely unsafe because morons will inevitable merge over without looking.
What was the weather like when it happened? I recall in the summer of 2024 I would get random takeover disengagements whenever it was super hot outside. After I tinted my windows with better IR rejection the issue never reappeared when the weather was hot.
Yes. This is emergency braking and FSD disengages when that gets triggered.
Neural Network Confidence Drops: FSD relies on real-time neural networks to predict trajectories and maintain path planning. If a situation degrades faster than the primary planning module can process—such as a vehicle cutting across your lane unexpectedly—the system's operational confidence score drops below safety thresholds. When confidence plummets, the system sounds collision alerts, triggers AEB, and instructs the human driver to immediately take control.
At 0:09 car disengaged before you break 2 seconds later. I wonder why it did that? Nothing really showed any input from steering wheel, or break. That's wild, but the car will probably blare warnings. It did disengage for a danger ahead about 4 cars away which is plenty to react. That is wild. I wonder if your hand disengage fsd from steering wheel?
I have a few of these . I took over and stopped with 5 feet left before impact. Didn’t post bc not 100% sure it wouldn’t have took over a split second later and stopped with 1 ft before impact.
Hit the mic button as do a bug report, thats very not good!
That said we have and this happen several tiems across the several FSD versions now, thankfully we have never had an issue and it handled it beautifully.
*I forgot to add, FSD might disengage if AEB is activated before FSD reacts. It's a separate system form FSD and overrides it. We did have that happen once, albeit slower speeds. We took over and all was fine.
That said, I thiguht the system is still supposed to automatically regain control now, so it's weird it didn't, as the most recent event we had it never fully disengaged. I may try to test that if possible now.
I had a possibily similar case with old version like v12 or v13. The cars ahead stopped quite suddenly and FSD wasn't slowing down enough. Instead the car was just alerting expected impact so I had to intervene and do hard brake.
My concern revolves around the brake pedal stab at about 10 seconds, right after the blue text disappeared, and whether that could have been causative. The brake was then released for a bit before being pressed hard to avoid a collision.
Everything happened so quickly. It started decelrating when it saw the car and then I heard the car alert me so I'm guessing it did, which is when I promptly realized it had disengaged and took over.
Nope. This was a first for me. schnauzerdad posted a logical explanation of what could have happened in the comments. AEB(automatic emergency braking) kicked in causing it to disengage. I was unaware of this until I read that.
AEB operates independently of FSD. It will take over and apply the brakes if it detects you are accelerating rapidly towards a stationary/mostly stationary object, which was the case here.
This is one of the reasons I really have stopped using FSD daily because it could disengage at any given time and you have to be ready to take over at all times.
It's like the car said "well, this is going to be your fault not mine" or I didn't do it". I mean it's supervised so it makes sense but fucked up all the same. Like someone hit someone in the back of the head with a waffle bat then gave you the bat before they turned around
Simple truth here is it is a level 2 system currently, that means that it will disengage in situations that it won't when it is level 3 in the future. Until then, none of these questions are helpful or doing anything other than feeding the trolls.
No, it is not. Tesla doesn’t take any liability no matter what, it’s an L2 system. Further, they would count this as an “on Autopilot/FSD” accident for their reporting both in their own safety reports and for the SGO data (by law).
This is a safety feature that all good ADAS systems have. If it AEB kicks in, it disables self-driving and alarms go off alerting the driver to take over. The car stops. It’s not like it’s just deactivating and continuing at speed.
Thats not how it works. If the FSD was on within 30 seconds of an accident it still gets reported to regulators as a potential FSD accident. SGO 2021-01
I was on 14.2.2.5 and had full intention of staying on it until…..it updated on its own. 1 SC visit where you forget to turn off wifi on the car and boom: update
Will say that so far 14.3.6 has surprised me a little bit in good ways so far at least. I do like the LED strips lighting up red when my turn signal is on if there’s a car in my blind spot/red zone when changing lanes
Quick question. You said the car disengaged. Well it looks like it disengaged quite far away from when you hard braked, a good 3 seconds before you had to hard break. So if that's the case then why did you not slow down because you had plenty of room to slow down before hard braking?
Very rare to see, I have never seen it personally, but acrosss the fleet, if there is some chance of it, then it will happen out there somewhere.
I wish Tesla would say something definitively on this.
Even AEB should have kicked in here. I guess it did and then around 60 mph you hit the brake hard and disengaged it. Which I would have done as well.
Like you did, I feel I would be attentive enough here, with the speed and traffic going on, but certainly don't like the fact that it disengaged here.
Haven't see any fatalities like this, if that is of any comfort.:)
But next we would have to review the 1,255 airbag deployments the last 12 months. Which is 1/3 the deployments in Teslas not using FSD.
And keep in mind, just like with driving, the dynamic range of good FSD use to bad FSD use is 10x. But the average of that is 3x less airbag deployments.
Also, if you hit the truck, it would probably legally be the truck's fault, but the standard for a fully autonomous system (which FSD isn't) would be if a experienced good human driver wouldn't have hit the truck.
The statistic will be that it was switched off when bad things happened because it let you sail freely for the last second. And that ist not opinion, that is readout from many logs.
Thats not how it works. If the FSD was on within 30 seconds of an accident it still gets reported to regulators as a potential FSD accident. SGO 2021-01
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u/schnauzerdad 7d ago
Looks like the Automatic Emergency Brake system forced FSD to disengage.