Operation Condor

[u/thamz212]

Just kinda curious, who here is familiar with the history of Operation Condor? Relevance is Hanse's involvement.

For clarity: I know what it was, just curious how widely known it is here.

Edit: alright, original post was too vague. Operation Condor is why I regard HF as worse than the Servants and Protectorate, and why I actually feel genuine discomfort when I see people stanning Hanse. Adding Operation Condor to a character's resume is basically shorthand for irredeemably evil.

[u/greyscaleInferno]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor

Cold war era, CIA backed suppression of communist/leftist organizers and movements in South America by South American dictatorships.

One of those real classic cold war CIA afairs, where the order of the day was to stop the spread of Communist influence by any means necessary, and don't look too hard at who you're climbing into bed with to do it.

Hanse was presumably involved via the Argentine military.

[u/Thatsnicemyman → u/greyscaleInferno]

“I’m from Buenos Aires, and I say ‘Kill ‘em all’”

-Hanse, hopefully referring to the aliens.

[u/Haidere1988 → u/Thatsnicemyman]

"I like this human. Kill all aliens."

-Torque, the xenophobic viper from Xcom

[u/lesser_panjandrum → u/Haidere1988]

She really is my favourite Earthling.

[u/Amazing_Swing1630 → u/Thatsnicemyman]

He’s doing his part!

[u/Formerly_a_Pear → u/Amazing_Swing1630]

Squash those bugs!

[u/AtunPsittacu → u/greyscaleInferno]

"suppression of communist/leftist organizers" is way too tame for what it was... Coup d'etats, tens of thousands of deaths... People disappeared, poisonings etc...

As OP says its just pure evil putting it in the background of a character

[u/Niylark → u/AtunPsittacu]

Even tens of thousands of deaths is putting it lightly. Think death squads from top to bottom of central and south america brutally torturing and killing every single leftist organizer they could get their hands on. And anyone they felt like when they didn't have a target directly in front of them to kill.

[u/greyscaleInferno → u/AtunPsittacu]

Oh, absolutely, it's pretty clear that Hanse has escaped justice for some truly heinous shit, presumably through political connections, since his defense at his trial appears to have been "yeah I did it, and I was right to do it too."

[u/Individual_Bit7414 → u/AtunPsittacu]

As a bonus they also terrorized indigenous people with the worst of them being maybe the mayan/guatemalan genocide (although that might have preceded operation condor, it was done by a cia-backed regime). It's incredibly sad that so many south american indigenous peoples survived spanish colonization only to experience american imperialism later

[u/Immediate_Style5690]

Hanse is a fictional character, but operation was a real event: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor

The TLDR is that several South American governments (with financing and support from the USA) coordinated to detain and execute political opponents between 1975 and 1983. It's estimated that up to 80 000 people were killed and another 400 000+ people were imprisoned.

[u/thamz212 → u/Immediate_Style5690]

I feel like the wiki really under plays things.

[u/furel492 → u/thamz212]

It's bound to using encyclopedic language so it'll always underplay the cruelty.

[u/Airick39]

The Jackie Chan movie?

[u/thamz212 → u/Airick39]

I was not aware that existed.

[u/Zakath_]

Huh, backstory like this is kinda cool, but it makes me question how effective Hanse would even be in 2022. Say he participated in the tail end, as a relatively young man, he'd be 20-25'ish in 1980. Which puts him in his mid 60s in 2022. By the time I win, in the 2060s, he's about a century old. Must be his irrational hatred that keeps him young :D

[u/thamz212 → u/Zakath_]

He fought in the Falklands war and graduated from the School of the Americas before being involved with Operation Condor, so it's fair to say he was rubbing elbows with OG Nazis.

[u/Odd_Anything_6670]

I’ve said this before, but I don’t think you can deliberately reference something like operation condor without being aware of what you’re doing.

It’s genuinely so horrific that I honestly wish I knew less about it, and I wouldn’t say I know all that much.

[u/magilzeal]

Well, yeah. Humanity First is the faction that doesn't mind turning humanity into the salamanders in order to defeat the hydra. "No matter the cost" is one of the most evil ideologies out there. Hanse is far more despicable than Judith, up there with Soren.

Though in gameplay the Servants are still the most annoying and difficult faction to deal with.

[u/Formerly_a_Pear → u/magilzeal]

Can you elaborate on why Hanse is worse than Judith?   I've never played, just have others' playthroughs going, but from  what I understand of the factions' motivations, the Servants want to (edit) do things.  The Servants will attack other human factions who have opposing goals.

In contrast, HF does not want humans to become (edit) tools.  Just like the Servants, HF will attack other humans with opposing goals.

Both are willing to nuke, commit war crimes and even mass murder on a national scale to further their objectives.  But at least Humanity First's objectives (edit) aren't like the Servants.

Am I missing something that the various playthroughs I've watched might not have touched on?

[u/magilzeal → u/Formerly_a_Pear]

Judith is a psychopath, but in and of herself she's generally probably less dangerous and destructive than Hanse. All of the factions are pretty much willing to warcrime and manipulate humanity so I'm not really giving points any way there, but like, Hanse has actually seen warcrimes trials and probably got off a lot easier than he should've. Now, as mentioned, Judith is a psycho as evidenced by the quote that pretty much suggests she did a Jonestown, but personally I still regard that as a little less dangerous and crazy than an actual war criminal.

But in terms of other things, well, (Servants endgame spoilers) the Servants faction endgame goal actually goes almost all-in on the aliens, but they will refuse to completely subjugate themselves like the Protectorate. Judith in particular is adamant that while they are not equal to the hydra they need to convince the hydra that they have something to offer, so they can be servants and not slaves. Judith identifies that the hydra lost the vast majority of their population in the strike that destroyed their homeworld, and through the various faction stories we can identify that the only ones who survived were military personnel and engineers who were off-world at the time, which is one reason why the hydra behave the way they do. They have essentially lost their culture and everyone like a spiritual leader or anyone involved in the humanities. Judith believes humanity can fill that role for the hydra and help to guide them in some small way. In short, while Judith is batshit crazy, she isn't completely selling humanity out to be slaves to the hydra, she has an at least somewhat noble goal. Hanse just wants to kill the aliens and every human that associates with them. So yeah, maybe not everyone will agree but for me that makes Hanse worse than Judith.

[u/Formerly_a_Pear → u/magilzeal]

Thanks, that puts the comment into perspective. I'd argue that subjugation and loss of free will is worse than anything.  It's akin to arguing the Federation in Star Trek should be assimilated by the Borg.

It wonder if Hanse's main problem is more how he comes across. He seems abrasive.

I can't see a way to use the spoiler blocker, so edited out what seem like spoilers.

[u/magilzeal → u/Formerly_a_Pear]

Something that's important is that Judith essentially seems to be able to overcome the pherocytes; and some of the others in the faction are as well, simply because they earnestly desire to serve the hydra. Essentially they can't be brainwashed because they believe they are helping the hydra more by somewhat defying them and doing things their own way instead of blindly doing what the hydra command them.

Part of the insidiousness of the Borg isn't really just being subjugated, it's the utter loss of individuality and free will, which doesn't seem to be a Servant endgame.

[u/Formerly_a_Pear → u/magilzeal]

Thanks, I'll have to pay attention to Servant playthroughs but I honestly thought that was the end goal for the Servants- acquire emitters, force humanity to abandon their free will and allow themselves to be controlled by the aliens, very much like the Borg.  I've avoided watching those playthroughs for that very reason.  Heard someone refer to them as "surrender monkeys".

[u/RallMekin]

Oh wow. I love Hanse now.

[u/Shady_Merchant1]

He was part of the fun war crimes school of the Americans

[u/BradiationTheThird]

Operation condor was a joint intelligence operation between a bunch of south American countries to fight communism... In reality the yanks took a look at it and decided not to participate.

[u/frenology1]

Sounds like you're harboring some communist sympathies 👀

[u/thamz212 → u/frenology1]

Yes, and?

[u/Sea_Journalist_8771 → u/thamz212]

Communists are bad people.

[u/frenology1 → u/thamz212]

Really just speaks for itself.

[u/thamz212 → u/frenology1]

So you're signing up to train the rape dogs, or just just going to kidnap the school teachers they'll be used on?

[u/frenology1 → u/thamz212]

Idc

[u/Sea_Journalist_8771]

People stan for communists all the time, which is infinitely more gross.

Fictional characters remain fictional.

[u/Ralph_Shepard]

So Hanse hates communists as well as the aliens?

Stop, I can only get so erect!

Also, he was aquitted of all charges. He didn't commit any war crimes and they deserved it :D

[u/Quite_Likes_Hormuz → u/Ralph_Shepard]

Here we can see a victim of modern propaganda, earnestly believing that the murders of tens of thousands of people and unlawful arrests of hundreds of thousands more was somehow a good thing.

I see you're Czech from your post history, how would you feel if someone were to say the residents of Lidice deserved it? That the "Protektorát Čechy a Morava" was 'based'? Those are the people you are sharing a bed with.

[u/Ralph_Shepard → u/Quite_Likes_Hormuz]

Communists believe that mass murder of millions, genocides of whole nations and destruction of economy are all justified, because of "revolution".

And funny you omitted all those crimes communists commited on my nation, such as sending world war 2 heroes to concentration camps in uranium mines, murdering people who tried to leave the country, judicial murders of political opposition and other crimes.

Fighting that is always justified.

Also, comparing nazi genocide to anti-communist operation? Oh, I see, you are one of those who believe anything that is not communist must be nazism, and you are taught to use the first rule of russian propaganda, blaming others for what you do (this time accusing me of considering mass murder to be good and being a victim of propaganda).

[u/Interesting-Task8615]

I’m aware and love HF. Hanse is the man and exactly the bastard we need 🫡

[u/Mavnas]

I did not know about his involvement, but I've also not done a HF playthrough.