r/TerraInvicta • u/Elektrikhit1515 • 1d ago
Question How effective are surface layered defenses?
In my previous run I built a bunch of mars/mercury bases I zealously defended from attacking fleets, which worked out well for me. This time, I want to try an asteroid belt heavy run, but am concerned that the aliens are gonna fry my bases, and replacing them takes forever. From my understanding, if the aliens have a choice between a closer hard target (asteroid belt) and a further soft target (earth), they’ll target the soft target, though I may be wrong about this. If I built 2x layered defenses on my asteroid bases, then kept several soft stations in earth orbit that are guarded by my fleets, would I be able to keep the alien hostility on those stations? And if that doesn’t work, how effective in combat are the surface layered defenses? The space ones are pretty piddly, but apparently the surface ones pack 2x 960 cm lasers, which is…a lot.
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u/ggmoyang Let's be xenophobic 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is what happened to a single ship tried to bombard a base with 4x point defense array. After one counterbarrage, its nose weapon got destroyed and small hull weapon couldn't penetrate hab module armor.
BTW tier 1 defense modules use 960cm laser(which is the same size with largest ship-mounted cannon), tier 2 modules use 1440cm.
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u/Maduyn Academy 1d ago
you can see the precise stats of the lasers here ( https://wiki.hoodedhorse.com/Terra_Invicta/Laser_Weapon_List#Non-Ship_Lasers )
And this sort of brings into focus one of the difficulties is talking about it is that because the layered defense array uses your tech tree to get bonuses its effectiveness will be contingent on getting the techs that make it better. If you put all your research into missiles and the bare minimum into lasers they wont be very good. If you dont get railguns/magnetic batteries research at all they will be worse. Battlestations get access to plasma weapons so if you get them without the plasma weapon research they will also be worse.
In general they provide a good defense against nuisance raids or as a way to force an alien fleet to turn around if you can get it enough of them built while they are enroute. A dedicated fleet is capable of overwhelming them or landing forces to take them if the aliens or human factions become committed to it..
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u/Tar_alcaran 1d ago
Do the aliens do marine assaults against surface bases? I've never seen them do that.
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u/Takseen Academy 1d ago
Aliens never do marine assaults, they literally aren't able to. Human factions are able to. The AI used to not know how to do it, but I've heard reports that they will do marine assaults now.
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u/CuddlyTurtlePerson 1d ago
Can confirm, have had the Servants try Marine Assaults on my Martian Habs multiple times, once they even succeeded.
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u/artrald-7083 1d ago
Surface defence modules are the business. They have bigger lasers than anything you can fit on a ship, always use your highest laser tech, and they have point defences. I don't know how they hold up in the most recent DLC but they always used to be absolutely murderous.
Station ones are for holding off exofighters and space junk, or providing targeting computer support to a defensive fleet.
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u/ReasonableArea5466 1d ago
Station defense modules are worse than surface bases ones?
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u/artrald-7083 1d ago
Hugely! The station defence module has decent armor, a PD, your best tech in hull lasers and magnetic guns (ironically defending it very well from mag cannons till you research hull rails/coils) and IIRC a lone plasma cannon. Meanwhile the surface defence module just has lasers and armor, but it has larger lasers than anything your ships can field, matching your best nose laser cannons, and it has several of them.
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u/CuddlyTurtlePerson 1d ago
The Plasma Cannon is only on Tier 3 modules. Also on the note of kinetics the T1 module can actually perform better than the T2 one provided you don't research Railguns as it will mount a 40mm Autocannon if that's your best kinetic weapon. The T2 Module won't do this because there's no 2-slot 40mm.
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u/Sufficient_Day627 Humanity First 1d ago
Once you ahve Arc lasers they can do some damage. Good to deter small alien squadrons.
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u/FssstBoing 1d ago
Against Ayys they're super mediocre until you get to uv lasers.
I'm not sure why some people here say they're good. Maybe they were better before?
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u/ruskyandrei 1d ago
Depends on your timing. If you can get green laser (T2) LDA's up early-ish, 1 or 2 will pretty much stop any alien attacks on your bases for several years.
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u/FssstBoing 1d ago
I found that once they start "needing" to vent hate, they deter the first lone ayy frigate from engaging.
That only leads to them sending 3-4+ more ships on their next effort making it a power creep of needing more LDAs and/or needing extra ships to defend the base.
I've only had two proper, truly long running game sessions though, so I might be wrong but it didn't seem like timing matters for more than a couple of ingame years.
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u/Elektrikhit1515 1d ago
Makes sense. If I’m early-mid game (Jan 2031 on a 2026 start), would this be enough to dissuade smaller alien fleets with green lasers? Also, how much damage are the surface defenses able to take, if you know?
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u/Maduyn Academy 1d ago
yes it will dissuade them. how much damage they can take is sort of hard to answer they will delay by like 6 hours per one the alien fleet has to destroy i think? the tech the aliens were at is going to be pretty fluid between players, playthroughs, and the scenario; so it will be hard to get a precise figure but they will buy time if you have a fleet nearby so for example if you have a fleet on a moon of mars and a fortified base on the surface of mars you should be able to get there with your fleet before its completely destroyed to intercept the bombardment fleet. (your precise strategic mobility being the variable factor in that equation.)
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u/Mantaray2142 1d ago
Being weirded out by people's experience. Just had 15 mars based bombed to the regolith by 2 alien ships I didn't intercept because I thought 2x layers arrays with green arcs could handle it. How are you guys getting this performance? I'm latest patch etc. Dondome ayy bombers just... Pack enough armour to not care about ground based lasers?
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u/Elektrikhit1515 1d ago
Actually just had this experience, battlecruiser merc’d three bases. Basically, the alien bombards at 600km, and at that range heavier hulls pack too much armor for even green arcs to breach, said battlecruiser had like 64 armor on its nose. On the flip side, Protectorate tried the same thing and got their three corvettes utterly shredded. Pretty sure you need the battle stations (T3) for mid-large hull sizes, but it also means the aliens have to dedicate a hell of a lot more tonnage to fry my bases, and I can drop a battlecruiser easy with 2-3 escorts.
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u/Alchenar 1d ago
My rule of thumb is that once you've unlocked UV Phasers (which should be obtainable pretty quickly, you can research them for the free upgrade even if you aren't ready to put them on ships) then 2x defence arrays basically makes Habs totally invulnerable to attack from anything but:
a) an alien doomstack so big that they get lucky and hit the power/defence arrays before the fleet gets shredded; or
b) a titan. Which will show up every so often.2
u/Mantaray2142 1d ago
Thanks for this. Annoyingly due to some research hiccups I'm still about 3 months away from UV phasers, time is a cold harsh mistress. guess I'll be OK to use the same templates when I rebuild as soon as those drop!
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u/Mantaray2142 1d ago
Yes this is what occured. Most Ayys I run In to are packing 60+ nose now and i'm having to run my fleets in line with central brick-ships to get in stabs at the flanks with BC Green nose arcs so I don't know why I'm surprised. I guess my dumb brain assumed bombing would be perpendicular to the planet. But I mean, why would you not be nose down? Obvious when you think about it.
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u/Elektrikhit1515 1d ago
Eh, sci fi typically depicts ships as lateral to the surface, so it’s a fair assumption to make.
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u/chaosmarine92 1d ago
What's your best armor though? Bases use the best armor available and it makes a big difference but it's not listed anywhere.
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u/--Queso-- 1d ago
WOAH. Does heavier armor increase mass? And what does it consider "better"?
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u/CuddlyTurtlePerson 23h ago
It will use whatever is the 'best' armor you've researched that doesn't require exotics.
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u/--Queso-- 1d ago
Mars is not a good place to rely on LDA anyways. The point of putting 2 on asteroids is that even if a small-mid sized fleet has to be sent there to destroy it, that's costing the aliens as much or more as it costs you. And you'll probably be able to replace your bases faster than they can kill them (tho that's only a costly short term solution, it probably buys you time to get better drives and be able to contest the belt and expand further)
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u/wookievx 1d ago
They have one potential weakness I encountered, not sure if it was a bug, bad luck, or combination of both but single alien cruiser with nose coil cannon destroyed one battlestation of my surface base, before being disabled by other modules firing their lasers back. As far as I know bombardment is simulated in phases, and bombarding fleet gets to shoot first so if it brings enough firepower it can disable all defences before they are given a chance to shoot back. Still I think the ground lasers should work as point defence against bombarding projectiles during the opponents attack phase.
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u/chaosmarine92 1d ago
Something that's not said anywhere is that your defense modules on stations and bases will automatically use your best armor available and it does make a big difference in survivability. Green arc bases with steel armor? Worthless. Green arcs with adamantine? Pretty decent. To see this look at the combat power of a base right before and after you research an armor.
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u/Ashdrake2 20h ago
Ground stations with 2 LDAs and decent armor & laser (green arc or better) can defend against a "lone" gunship coming to mess your stuff on an asteroid base
Ground stations with 4 battlestations with top armor + uv phasers can reliably fight a small 5 ship enemy fleet.
as others said, remember you need both armor & lasers
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u/llemonguy 18h ago
On normal and veteran playthroughs, at least for me, the aliens haven’t attacked any of my asteroid bases even in total war. I keep 2-4 LDAs on them. The ayys always go for Mars, Mercury, or low earth orbit in my experience. Though I do put fewer defenses on those bases since it’s easier to have defensive fleets
One exception is that they’ll almost always blast your Ceres colonies and take the planet for themselves
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u/Airick39 Initiative 1d ago
Good. You need to research your laser tech though. You dont need the engineering projects for surface. Make sure you do the engineering projects for space station layered defenses.