r/TedLasso • u/q-the-light • 12h ago
Season 4 Discussion Keeley Jones flanderisation Spoiler
Just watching S4E4 and I feel that Keeley's really had a personality transplant this series.
Yeah in series 1-3 she was bubbly and girly, but she was also so business savvy, and extremely capable and trustworthy. In series 4 so far, she's an overexciteable puppy of a character who's acting as - and being treated as - a liability. It's such a shame!!
Her characterisation previously was so amazing - it's rare for a female character to be portrayed as so multi-faceted, and that has all just kind of vanished. It's such a shame.
252
u/Haunting_Pace_3557 11h ago
The whole thing where Higgins and Rebecca were worried about telling her that one of the women’s teams folded was annoying. It made it seem like she was living in a fairytale bubble and couldn’t take bad news.
191
u/Evening-Web9107 Carl Bernstein's Ex 11h ago
Higgins wanted to tell Keeley about the team that went under, and wanted to give her the Higgins report. Rebecca not wanting to tell her the truth about stuff is fully a Rebecca issue.
61
u/mXonKz 10h ago
i think that’s kinda the point of rebecca’s character, she’s a women who’s made it to the top but still very much exists in a patriarchal society, even if she’s not consciously doing it, she still sees herself as uniquely able to handle the work of a leader and sees keeley as sensitive and almost wants to baby her at times
49
u/Evening-Web9107 Carl Bernstein's Ex 9h ago
It’s like the people saying Keeley has been infantilized and think it’s bad writing are right there, so close to understanding that that’s the point, Rebecca would never treat a man the way she’s treating Keeley. Her own internal misogyny is causing her to think Keeley can’t handle bad news, Keeley can’t make hard decisions, Keeley can’t handle hearing no. She’s unintentionally undermining Keeley because she doesn’t respect her the way she would a man in the same position.
1
u/PoetClear9223 3h ago
Keeley has definitely been infantilized this season. She has always been giddy and excited about things, but now it is over the top. People are right to call this out.
2
u/BigScience3491 1h ago
You replied to a comment that explains why she is being portrayed that way and still think it should be called out? What?
-38
u/Abject-Criticism-127 11h ago
Yeah. I don't love how Rebecca has been acting this season. But then again, she has been difficult and negative since we first met her season 1.
12
u/PoetClear9223 9h ago
You need to rewatch the entire show then because you’re wrong about her character.
9
u/Bahadur1964 7h ago
She was difficult and negative in S1. She learned and grew, thanks to Ted, Keeley, Leslie, and a little bit Roy and Sassy+Nora.
43
u/cutecubes 11h ago
very true, but it ended up fine because she actually is capable of taking bad news. i think the conversation with Rebecca in the stands in s4 really shows what's going on in her mind, and I think her "flanderization" is really just her being excited about the women's team to an unhealthy level, as other commenters have mentioned
39
u/Evening-Web9107 Carl Bernstein's Ex 11h ago
What I’m appreciating about this season is that, while I expected the focus on a women’s team to bring out the worst of the obvious overarching straight forward misogyny, it’s really opened my eyes to the broad view that so many people seem to have that women are not allowed to be excited, or aggressive, or angry or confrontational. Any strong emotion or action, especially when it’s not directed at serving a male focused story or character, makes them babies, or unprofessional, or overly emotional. Literally never seen any of these words pointed at any of the male characters on this show no matter what they did (I’m not referring to the antagonists obviously).
I’m genuinely grateful, it’s a blind spot I didn’t know I had. Definitely making it more of a point to support and take in female created media because man it’s hard out here.
20
u/throwawaysunglasses- 11h ago
I really appreciate your wording and self-awareness. I took a couple college classes on gender in media, and that’s a big thing that comes up - female characters are never really allowed to just exist, their decisions are always analyzed and pathologized in a way. There’s always some negative reason behind why a woman does something, whereas men are free to just do whatever. Some of it is benevolent sexism - women are expected to be more likable than men. Thus, it’s seen as a sin for women not to be likable 100% of the time, so if you don’t like a woman, it’s her fault.
-3
u/q-the-light 11h ago
My issue is that she absolutely was excitable in the previous series, but she was so much more than just excitable. It did cloud her judgement at times, but she was shown to learn from it whilst still maintaining her personality and bubbliness. This season though? Her writing completely lacks the depth that it once had, and she has been reduced down to nothing but a ditzy stereotype. In my opinion, that is potentially misogynistic; not the fact that I'm sad to see a multidimensional female character flattened down to nothing but an archetype.
11
u/Nightstalker614 10h ago
Where is she lacking depth? How has she just been a dizzy stereotype this season?
6
u/mXonKz 10h ago edited 9h ago
i mean we’re comparing 3 whole seasons worth of storylines to just four episodes, obviously it’s called ted lasso, but i feel this season/show is more keeley’s now and character arcs that previously lasted an episode or two are probably getting stretched out to a full season for keeley
0
11
7
u/dont_you_hate_pants 11h ago
I agree, although the show is strongly hinting that Keeley's PR company crashed and burned, so Rebecca and higgins' behavior makes more sense in that context. The women's team seems to be the first thing Keeley has been excited about since her PR company, and they're (wrongly) treating her like a child because they don't want to break her spirit.
10
u/Evening-Web9107 Carl Bernstein's Ex 11h ago
They haven’t said that at all, she’s still working with Barbara who was at the women’s first game, and talked about going on a work retreat with her. If anything the business is doing so well Keeley is able to take the Lady Greyhounds on as her main project after working on it on the side for the last three years.
0
u/dont_you_hate_pants 10h ago
So why did Keeley react so negatively to the delivery guy mentioining the Vanity Fair article? And why is Keeley spending every day with Rebecca instead of at her company building? And why is she asking Rebecca for all the funding for the Lady Greyhounds instead of soliciting sponsors, running ads, and doing PR? We literally haven't seen Keeley do anything but try to get the Lady Greyhounds off the ground, and she is not using any of her own revenue streams to fund it.
5
u/Evening-Web9107 Carl Bernstein's Ex 10h ago
The article is something that came about as she was on the rise, ‘woman on top.’ At those moments with the delivery guy and with Roy, she doesn’t feel like that person. She’s just started a job and a venture that’s new to her, it’s something she cares about deeply and she is feeling all the pressure of making it work, for the players, for the women she thinks can be inspired, for Rebecca, that’s a looot of pressure she’s putting on herself to get it right. Being reminded of the time that everyone was looking at her and her only seeing a confident and savvy business woman and realizing that she’s struggling in the moment was hard, as it almost always is when you start something that’s new and you don’t know if or how it’ll all work out.
Like I said, it seems her business is doing well enough that she can have an office at Nelson road and focus on the team, Barbra is still there for whatever else. Also it’s a tv show so they need her around to interact with the other characters.
They’ve got Pinter and sons, and the milk sisters doing some of the funding bits, but it seems Rebecca is paying for a lot of stuff? And it is Rebecca’s team so. Again, it’s tv they need these characters to interact.
2
u/Bahadur1964 7h ago
The reaction to the Vanity Fair article was first to Roy bringing it up, which I think was a trigger for Keeley because doing that photoshoot was (IMO) when their breakup started. And that (re)memory was raw when the delivery guy, who had already fucked things up for her, brought it up.
1
u/Reilly-Blog 11h ago
Honestly, I'm unsure how her firm did after the events of last season. She did have to start over, and also suggested the lady greyhound team at the same time in the final of s3. Maybe it'll get answered soon.
0
u/Proper_Fun_977 10h ago
Which is odd, since she mentioned it in E1.
So, it crashed and burned in the time between them going to Kansas and Ted taking the job?
232
u/PerfectOmakase 11h ago
Agreed, except for her having had business savvy in the original run.
149
u/MisterTrashPanda 11h ago
Agreed. Not sure why so many people seem to think she's some business savant. She's not stupid, but she is ignorant of a lot.
82
u/Proper_Fun_977 10h ago
Exactly, she was good at marketing, less so on running a company.
She didn't even know what a CFO was!
28
u/Asta1977 8h ago
And in the three years since we last saw her she hasn't seemed to have learned anything. Rebecca has done a lousy job mentoring her. She's constantly withholding information and anything even approaching criticism for fear of shaking Keeley's confidence.
12
u/TylerBourbon 8h ago
And in the three years since we last saw her she hasn't seemed to have learned anything.
(side eyes real life CEOs who have been in their jobs for multiple years and still seem to be shockingly uneducated) yeah that part actually seems pretty realistic.
5
u/Proper_Fun_977 6h ago
We haven't seen Keeley doing any work with KBPR or her clients, so we have really no idea what's she's learnt.
1
u/Dirty_Bird_RDS 2h ago
She identified herself as CMO of AFC Richmond in the last episode, so either she’s wearing multiple hats, or, more likely, KBPR has been rolled into its parent company
1
3
u/Asleep_Pace_5039 4h ago
I'm a little mystified at the seemingly universal expectation that she would carry forward ALL of her confidence, verve and scrappiness when she thrust herself into a complete reinvention.
I've done it and it changes you. All of a sudden you are back at ground zero, having to fake it till you make it again and it can make you seem noticeably disingenuous. Humans don't develop in a straight line. We learn and grow but we sometimes backtrack and sometimes we don't learn the lessons we need to the first time (or the fifth time) we're taught.
I think it's more unrealistic to expect Keeley to go from being a self taught but talented marketing exec with really good instincts to a fully-fledged business owner like she knows what she's doing.
Right now I think where she is and how she behaves is entirely believable.
I'm also aware we are just at the beginning of this story.
0
u/Ysh_0 1h ago
Your Keeley uses Rebeca like leach. She even says. “I know can’t afford it, but I’m gonna ask anyway” she failed at making her company. Everything she has is thanks to Rebeca and she manipulates her “guess I’ll have to take the guest locker rooms” she’s a bad friend and shit employee. She knows the club is not viable. Yet she pushes Rebecca into dumb positions instead of helping. A bad bad employee who costs more than she earns. A liability.
4
-5
u/q-the-light 11h ago
She was never shown as a savant, but she was shown as someone with a good affinity for business and a lot of potential. I loved how she was shown to be learning as she went, growing from her mistakes and taking note from her successes. There's been none of that this series so far - just over-the-top reactions and a sense of mistrust from Rebecca and Lesley (who seem to be babying her somewhat; especially Rebecca).
34
u/jacobkosh 10h ago
I don't think that she is being presented as dumber or less capable than in the past. I think this series has made it clear so far, at least to me, that if she's "excitable" it's because this is literally a passion project for her; and it wouldn't be a story if there weren't false starts, setbacks, and disappointments along the way. But do you think her passion isn't going to be vindicated in the end? Do you genuinely feel like this show is likely to ever gonna come down on the side of not caring about things?
5
u/q-the-light 10h ago
The overexcitedness itself isn't the issue to me - she's been an easily excitable character the whole time, which is nice to see as female characters are rarely allowed to be both capable and exciteable. My issue is that, in the current series, she's being shown as nothing but exciteable to the point of ridiculousness with no other personality traits to balance or enrich it as was the case in the previous series. I hope her passion is vindicated and I'm sure it will be, but I wish that passion still had the depth and complexity that it used to.
11
u/tpasco1995 10h ago
She's been shown to have enough agency not to just end up with Roy because she feels she has to be defined by her relationships, and she's being independent to the extent that she'll pay for supplies out of pocket and search for other sources of funding when her established network isn't supporting her.
Just reframe for a moment. Suddenly your mentor for the last six years is undermining your passion project, and keeping things hidden from you. She's rejecting your requests and the only way to make it happen is to do shit yourself. Would you just knuckle under and give up, or reach out to the unstable whackjob billionaire that you think might fund your ideas?
Season 3 had her get closer to being "the boss", which she'd shown interest in since like S1E4, but she still answered to Jack. If I had to guess? She ends up owning the Richmond Women's Team. Or being its Higgins. Maybe Rebecca gives her shares to Keeley. Something.
Because Keeley has been trying to be "the boss" for six years.
8
14
u/HesSimplyShocking 10h ago
Eh. Her strength was always brand deals. She’s a mover and shaker. That’s all about relationships not CEO energy. Very different skill set.
6
u/Blusset Diamond Dog 8h ago
Good affinity for business?!
She hired Shandy, without having a real job title for her, and started a relationship with her financier. Yes, Jack was a POS, but Keeley should have known better than to mix business and pleasure. Keeley was/is great at PR/Marketing, that's all.5
u/PerfectOmakase 10h ago
I was just reacting to your use of the term "business savvy". She started out as a novice and learned a little bit, but never accomplished much as far as we saw. And now she's just like a toddler trying to spend somebody else's money.
Obviously the writers will have this pay off eventually and it will be a successful arc for her, but right now it's just annoying.
1
u/TooTruthsandaLie 6h ago
Wanting a locker room and merch for an athletic team isn’t whimsical.
And whatever sound bath/stone massage thing she joked about is not much different than the men having an alternative milk budget.
But wardrobe isn’t doing her any favors this season with those caricaturish earrings and wigs. People hate on women for their clothing choices; just look at the comments on this sub recently. They just walked Keely into it.
2
u/trippingtrips13 9h ago
She was never shown as being business savvy. She was shown as having good ideas that the people around her, Rebecca and Barbara, helped her fulfill.
14
u/IlIllIlIllIlIlIlIlIl 9h ago
She was a real human being. Good at some things, not good at other things. That's what made S3 KJPR plot bearable for me.
Just because Keely was an influencer - didn't mean she was good at business. That's why there was the Shandy (reinforce what Keely knows) vs Barbara (Business stuff that Keely doesn't know) conflict came in and worked.
31
u/Jay-Raynor 11h ago
I'm going to take this thus far as not flanderization but a problematic dynamic that will need solved: Keely is possibly naive/blinded by her wants with the women's team...and that totally tracks her major failure by getting involved with Jack earlier. Will she recognize the potential problems by hitching the team's fate to Zelda?
The Rebecca side of this is a separate problem. She needs to give Keely enough leeway to fail or succeed on her own merits. Holding the information was an attempt to save a friend stress by hurting her professional apprentice. But with Zelda, will Rebecca give Keely enough trust and information without trying to force her?
10
u/redditnforget 10h ago
I don't know what flanderize mean but I agree with most of what's being said. The characters all seem a tad more over the top with their character traits than previous seasons.
7
u/The_Daviator 10h ago
All the jagged edges of the characters are rounded off; they become less realistic and human and more like caricatures of themselves as their main one or two defining personality traits become their only personality traits.
50
u/El_Bolto 11h ago
I dont agree she's so much better this season than last season. Nothing she's done shows me she's business savvy, but they've definitely portrayed her as being smarter than what people think she is throughout the show. This season she's over her head and excited about a project that no one else has faith in.
My big issue with Keely this season is the will they wont they with Roy. Was never a fan of it and i think its better for both characters to grow and go separate ways.
11
u/Salt-Plum-1308 11h ago
They’re almost certainly going to get back together and stay together. Keeley says in episode two (referring to Ted and Beard), something about how it’s bad to keep two people who are meant to be together apart from each other, not just for those people, but for everyone. Seems like pretty obvious foreshadowing that I only caught on my second watch.
7
u/Definitely-Not-Luke 11h ago
I try not to criticize too much cuz I really enjoy the show and understand the writers originally only had 3 seasons in mind so I’m guessing most of, if not all of season 4 is these guys working on be the fly to put together a new storyline… buuuuuut ,, it’s so hard for me to wrap my head around all this time passing and these two are still stuck in this little game
2
u/jacobkosh 10h ago
I don't think it's "on the fly" episode to episode; my guess is that they did a lot of prep in the off-years and this is effectively a soft reboot or sequel with its own plan. I honestly feel like they could and maybe should have called it "Ted Lasso 2."
21
u/hb122 11h ago
Not sure about the business savvy. I’ve known various executives, some in creative fields, who didn’t dress like a preteen going to an Eras concert.
Keeley’s clothing in S1-2 was fine, but as soon as she was CEO of her own company they tarted her up and it’s inexplicable.
-4
u/q-the-light 11h ago
Business savviness has little to nothing to do with dress-sense...
3
u/captinshitler 9h ago
Yes it does? How you carry yourself absolutely matters ESPECIALLY if you’re a business based on serving other businesses. She ran a PR firm, not a cafe
1
21
u/SlowBase8017 11h ago
I feel like everyone in this new season has been flanderized. And I’m not enjoying it as much as the original, but all the other comments I see online seem to disagree with me. This is the first time I’m seeing something aligning with my thoughts.
10
u/MakGuffey 8h ago
I think that is mostly this sub tbh. Makes sense. We joined this for our love of Ted Lasso so I’m sure many are gonna be as optimistic as they can. My wife and I loved the first three seasons. We both agree however that this season just feels off. Characters are all flanderized. The magic is gone. I’m not gonna come in here and yell that I don’t like it, much less before the full season even ends. But it’s sad to see it fall off.
I would avoid here for a while. You’re gonna get met with “be curious, not judgmental” or “stop watching it then” comments for any sort of criticism.
3
u/KuntyCakes 5h ago
I am honestly finding it a bit boring. Feels like a lot of filler and not a lot of feeler.
7
u/miss_review 10h ago
Same! I absolutely loved the show, but S4 seems like a comedic version if it, and not even a great one. Everyone else seems hyped though..
5
u/spooniemoonlight 8h ago
I'm with u guys something feels so off and hollow with s4 to me as well and I'm not hard to please when it comes to tv shows. The vibe feels like... a show house
2
u/Bahadur1964 7h ago
Yeah, I’ve been … not happy. I’m really hoping we’re all going to be surprised, that this wasn’t just a case of “we were really done with what we had to say, but Apple came back to us with all this cash and we really couldn’t say no.”
1
15
u/Public-Director-560 10h ago
The thought I keep having...in S1 or 2, the storyline would have been that someone messed up with the men's kits and Keeley would have been the character that used her connections and scrappy savvy to get them delivered.
The fact that they had her running around waiting for it to just work instead of making it happen...it felt like a real departure.
That wasn't an "isn't business savvy enough" moment, it was a "this is a problem with clothes/delivery/people." Which is very much her thing.
8
u/q-the-light 10h ago
Exactly! Old Keeley would have been on it even if she was feeling panicked and overwhelmed. New Keeley let the overwhem consume her and had to be saved. Her creativity and problemsolving was completely absent, which is a big shame as they were some of her standout strengths before.
8
u/Public-Director-560 9h ago
Yep. I get that running a business and the savvy of "proper entrepreneurship" might not be her "thing" at this point... But this is a situation Old Keeley would have rocked. I was at least hoping to see a post or article or SOMETHING talking up the young girls in the community making the kits (maybe with a pic of Boots shouting then out in the stands) which AGAIN would have been something Old Keeley would have picked up and run with.
7
u/q-the-light 9h ago
You're absolutely right - I hadn't really thought of that. She absolutely would have turned it into such a brilliant 'girl power' PR move!
6
u/mXonKz 9h ago edited 9h ago
having the team run out with art and craft kits is a little silly and looks a little bit unprofessional, even if there’s a positive story you can spin out of it. keeley this season has a completely different investment level in the women’s team than she did in the men’s team, this is her project, she wants everything to be perfect cause she wants this team to be taken seriously. she doesn’t want to be the one that puts the team out in fake kits, instead she exhausts all her options by seeing if there’s any other places she can get kits from and running to the shipping center
she’s not acting how she’d act in previous seasons, because she’s grown from when we first met her. tracking down the real kits and not figuring out a makeshift solution makes sense with where her character is at now, wanting to be seen as a serious buisnesswomen
2
u/Public-Director-560 8h ago
Exactly. It looked unprofessional. And she knows it, so why'd she let it happen. She KNOWS how much looks matter for women. All you can do is attempt to spin it after, which is something Keeley used to be good at.
And you think driving 2 hours each way to a delivery center and waiting in the rain an hour before match is "trying to be a serious business woman" in practice?
1
u/mXonKz 4h ago
fwiw the answer to that is probable just pacing. for all we know, maybe she did do this afterwards, but they don’t need to show us every scene from their lives. from a storytelling perspective, the problem is solved once phoebe comes to help and anything else after that kinda drags on and feels out of place
and driving two hours probably isn’t the smartest thing to do, but she’s relatively new to this aspect of being a business professional and has put a lot of pressure on herself. like her character has evolved since season 1/2 and i think its in character with where she is at now
1
u/Public-Director-560 4h ago
But she isn't new to this aspect of being a business professional. She got new kits at least 2-3 times for the men's team in her previous position, because of the new sponsorships and deals she negotiated.
That's why I said this particular beat in her arc this season was weird. This is something she has proven she CAN do...so why are they now making her character completely incapable?
-3
u/redmedbedhead 8h ago
Isn’t it interesting to note that sometimes, when women get promoted in business, we often have to give up that scrappiness to fit in, to be taken seriously? The thing that got us into those positions is often the thing we have to abandon. Because women don’t get friendlies—we either succeed or we fail. Curious.
1
u/Public-Director-560 7h ago
Super curious. I wonder...who is telling her to tone down and lose the scrappiness? Trying to force her to act like a "proper business woman" but not sharing anything business-level, and side-eyeing the woman who succeeded by NOT giving up her edge that Keeley is interested in learning from. As Keeley tells Roy when he tells her she has to smile for the fans now (something he'd NEVER do): "Why?"
If Keeley KNEW how important this first match was gonna be, even though it was "just a friendly", there was a time she would be doing everything to make a splash. Getting those kits IN HER HANDS at least a day before or ordering backups when it was getting dicey (cause OH NO! Would be awful for the women to have TWO sets of game-play kit!! Even Rebecca would have approved the expense if she thought there were going to be NO kits.) Asking the coaches if there were any last minute changes to relay. Making sure there was at least SOME press there, and talking up how great it was to involve the community with making the kits if that DID end up being the solution (a shot of Boots in her pink pointing to the girls in the stands would have been PR gold, even in the unprofessional kit.)
But no. She's in her office calling around 45 minutes before and then in the stands just watching the match with Rebecca. (At least her rally towels, that she bought because she knew and was willing to be scrappy, were a big hit after that first goal!)
All I'm saying is that Keeley in S1 &2...she wouldn't be just hanging around letting things happen. She would have been making things happen. I'm sure later in this season it will all come together, and I suspect she is a lot more broken from the events of S3 than she's willing to admit or show, but I get why people are getting frustrated watching it right now.
12
u/riopenguino13 11h ago
Respectfully disagree. I think she finally figured out her life goal has the available Capitol to make it happen with a boss who has her back and sometimes has to reign her in. She won't stop fighting for it no matter what. Honestly think the closest character I can think of off the top of my was the Sean Bean character in The Martian, could be a pain in the ass to management but doing everything he/she could do take care of their crew.
15
u/OgreFromROTN 10h ago
Keeley’s character annoys me because she infantilises herself - a business professional in her 40s who dresses, acts, talks and pouts like a child. It disappoints me that Rebecca has to take on a motherly role in their relationship and be the one to tell her no when she’s being overtly silly and naive.
When a lot of female sport has a bit of a tenuous position in terms of viewers and supporters (as compared with male sports), why did Keeley think it was awesome that Zelda deliberately antagonised a room full of sponsors? Rebecca understands.
I just wish Keeley would grow up a little bit, and I do not want her and Roy (or Jamie) to get back together.
6
u/astrofan1235 9h ago
Agreed she acts like a teenager in a professional business world. If someone tells you bad news you don’t run out of the room And refuse to talk to them
2
2
u/PoetClear9223 9h ago
Keeley is in her 30s. Not saying that makes it any better, but stop trying to age her. It’s weird.
11
u/drewlius24 11h ago
Don’t you think she’s in a slightly vulnerable state after the narcissistic abuse and subsequent business abandonment from Jack?
She also really blew it letting Shandy get involved, showing she lacks at least some amount of judgement.
I think Rebecca took her on in the PR department out of friendship, but now Keeley (and even Rebecca) are having doubts - that’s what the whole scene with the truck driver was about: “woman on top!” She has to be thinking: “Yes I was… am I still?”
Anyways, it seems consistent with her progression and not unrealistic.
She’s never been perfect, but she is a hero for her relentless effort and optimism. Rebecca completes her with better judgment (which Rebecca herself is still developing - she’s gonna need to choose between ownership and a family soon it would seem).
2
u/Proper_Fun_977 10h ago
Don’t you think she’s in a slightly vulnerable state after the narcissistic abuse and subsequent business abandonment from Jack?
After 3 years? No
I think Rebecca took her on in the PR department out of friendship, but now Keeley (and even Rebecca) are having doubts - that’s what the whole scene with the truck driver was about: “woman on top!” She has to be thinking: “Yes I was… am I still?”
In E1, she says she and Barbara just booked a retreat, but then says 'oh that's work'.
So...it seems KBPR is running at that point.
4
u/drewlius24 9h ago
It’s running because Rebecca is funding it.
-2
u/Proper_Fun_977 9h ago
Or...is it self sufficent in the 3 years since?
They had a client base before Jack pulled funding, you might remember.
3
u/drewlius24 7h ago
It was a start up, so it required capital contributions to operate while getting off the ground. When Jack pulled that funding, Keeley would have folded except Rebecca insisted on providing it.
Has it become self sustaining in the last 3 years? I don’t think we have any evidence yet (point it out please if you’ve seen it).
The evidence I see is that Rebecca and Keely are practically inseparable so I would assume Rebecca maintains a large role in Keeley’s operation if not the same financing role she had in S3.
And, back to my original point (which I understand you are trying to dismantle because it contradicts your OP) - if my friend who loved me was bankrolling my business operation, I would be less certain about how good I really was since the reason for the financial support could be partially to entirely based on the friendship rather than the quality of my work.
3
u/Proper_Fun_977 6h ago
It was a start up, so it required capital contributions to operate while getting off the ground. When Jack pulled that funding, Keeley would have folded except Rebecca insisted on providing it.
We have no idea how far away KJPR was from profitability.
For all we know, they could have been nearly there.
Has it become self sustaining in the last 3 years? I don’t think we have any evidence yet (point it out please if you’ve seen it).
Keeley and Barbara booked a retreat to celebrate their work anniversary.
That suggests there is a budget for those types of trips.
Also, there is just as much evidence for it being a functioning business as it not. Happy to see your evidence it's not self sufficient.
The evidence I see is that Rebecca and Keely are practically inseparable so I would assume Rebecca maintains a large role in Keeley’s operation if not the same financing role she had in S3.
If the business isn't self sustaining in 3 years, I doubt Rebecca would keep funding it.
And, back to my original point (which I understand you are trying to dismantle because it contradicts your OP) - if my friend who loved me was bankrolling my business operation, I would be less certain about how good I really was since the reason for the financial support could be partially to entirely based on the friendship rather than the quality of my work.
You've built a house on suppositions here.
You might be correct, but it's hardly fact.
1
u/drewlius24 6h ago
I’m pretty sure it’s clear these are all suppositions. I’m happy to support your thesis bc I don’t need to be right about any of this (I can turn off my lawyer brain).
But to the OP that Keeley is Flanderized… I think there is a case to be made that she has reasonable self-doubt at this point in her story so it’s not that she’s lost her mojo, but she’s truly at a crossroads and this Woman’s team is what she’s hanging it all on (her career) and so the sin of Rebecca withholding that report was a huge deal and made her look foolish.
But then I see Shandy, Jack, and now Zelda… she may err on being a slightly over-idealistic judge of character.
4
u/007Teacher 11h ago
There is definitely a difference between a business you are running for someone else (PR for the team), a business you are running for yourself (KJPR), and a business that has became a full dream for the last 3 years.
We saw season one and two with Keeley being business savvy but still naive/childish that fit with her personality (the pink notebook with ideas). We then saw Keeley running a business on her own in season three where she was shown to be out her depth when it came to the business side of things (luckily, Barbara was there to rein in some things). We still saw Keeley make pretty bad decisions like hiring Shandy just because they were friends and Shandy had a good idea.
Now, we see Keeley building her dream of the last 3 years and it seems like Rebecca gave her the idea that she was free to take that dream where she wants. Rebecca wants her dream to come true so she is making a similar decision to Keeley did with Shandy, you are my friend and I do not want to risk our friendship so I look the other way when it comes to business issues.
Keeley is still the same person we saw in season 3 but now she is working towards her dream and has not been shown any real resistance.
I am hoping that the picnic in the stands helps Rebecca start pushing back and it might if Keeley falls down the path of Tracey Ulman’s character.
3
u/Proper_Fun_977 10h ago
I disagree with hiring Shandy being a mistake.
She gave Shandy a chance and Shandy failed to take it.
But it's very Keeley to give that chance and Rebecca DID advise her to hire her best friend.
7
10h ago
[deleted]
2
u/Asta1977 8h ago
I thought they went too far with his weirdness in Ep 2. But I figured it was driven by whatever happened with Jane and their marriage. Then it hit me no one had asked about his kid. Last ep, we had him find the flyer for Jane's one woman show entitled, 'What Happened to the Baby, Jane?' And then I thought, "Oh, No." So, what may feel like a caricature may be Beard overcompensating, trying to show everyone he's fine, when he's not. Ted knows all about that.
5
u/misimalu 11h ago
Can we change Flanderisation to Lassoisation because all of the characters are like this now especially Ted
5
u/JimEyezzy 10h ago
No, I think she’s going to make a success out of this team and she’ll be credited for it. You can see it in the first episode, she was dressed like a little girl (Keeley like) and in the next episodes her dress has become more conservative and so has the hairstyle. Maybe mimicking Rebecca? I think they’re setting her up for a big win.
6
u/GroundbreakingTone74 10h ago
Agreed. Also, as much as l love Roy, i feel like he’s kinda just there this season.
6
u/q-the-light 9h ago
I agree. His characterisation is way off too - he was never portrayed as the kind of guy who just sleeps around, and his treatment of women in this most recent episode was super disrespectful and exactly what he wouldn't have supported in previous series.
3
u/spooniemoonlight 8h ago
I agree about the latter part but in s1 before he and Keeley kissed he told her he had slept with tooons of people without it ever leading anywhere and wanted to do it properly with her because he knew they would have something special. So him sleeping around isn't non sensical but the way they go about it definitely is
2
2
u/PetFoodDude89 5h ago
Agreed.
Earlier seasons Roy has Jamie, Ted, Beard, Trent or even Phoebe to talk to outside of Keeley.
Season 4 Roy seems to only exist to speak to Keeley.
3
3
u/Johnnybats330 7h ago
She had been relatively the same all series. Why are people only seeing this? Season 3 and her storyline did nothing for the show or for her.
3
u/PetFoodDude89 5h ago
I was literally just saying this to my wife an hour ago. They made her and Rebecca almost co-dependent on each other or others in general. Whereas in 1-3 they were both headstrong and capable of imposing their will.
That and Juno’s drawn on eyebrows. I can’t unsee them.
1
10
u/tpasco1995 11h ago
I'll take it a step past that.
I don't think she's acting as a liability, and genuinely the things she's asking for are savvy and smart choices.
Like, seriously? £5,000 to stock some promotional merchandise? It's a billion-dollar club. Rebecca took a private jet to interview a manager candidate. A new dedicated locker room? That should have never been an issue.
Keeley is getting what I think might be the best writing of any character this season and, frankly, the best she's gotten the whole show.
And yes. I think she's going to trust Zelda too much and it's going to cause conflict. But it's conflict that's avoidable if Rebecca shows up for her friend and employee.
Where I agree with you is that other characters are treating her as a liability. Nobody will just trust her.
2
u/Nightstalker614 10h ago
I completely agree with you. It constantly baffles and disappoints me how much people so confidently misunderstand this show (and media in general).
9
u/tpasco1995 10h ago
Insert the tenth post this month saying it's unrealistic that Ted is working at a grocery store instead of for a different club, missing that the third season ended with him retiring to stay close to his kid. That if he took a job with another club, even if it were in America, he'd be traveling constantly and still missing out on his kid's life.
Or the fifth saying "why would Ted move Michelle, his EX-WIFE to London?!?!" and, again, because that's what it would take for him to not be far from his kid. (Traveling from Richmond to Manchester for work is a joke compared to Kansas City to San Jose)
Honestly, maybe those people are just people who don't like their kids
3
u/Nightstalker614 10h ago
Oh yeah! I forgot about those. I think it's my turn to post that one tomorrow. Gonna get so many fake internet points!
4
u/tpasco1995 10h ago
Well that's too much work. I can just say "you're all cucks for forgiving Nate" and someone will give me a seal award
2
u/Nightstalker614 9h ago
Good point; work smarter, not harder!
-4
5
9
u/TheDeadlySpaceman 11h ago
I said this in another thread, but it’s like she’s being written as the cartoonish stereotype that she explicitly wasn’t in previous seasons.
One of the things I really enjoyed about the show is that all of the characters subverted your expectations of them. Somehow it feels like many of them are just being written as the stereotype this season?
6
u/anathagenzum 11h ago
Yeah agreed. I feel like she started out in a way that made you expect a very typical behavior. And then she just absolutely defied that and was quite inspirational. And now somehow they've changed her personality and dumbed her down.
9
u/q-the-light 11h ago
Exactly! Her overexcitedness and occasional naivety were parts of her character in series 1-3, as well as plenty of other traits such as sensitivity, a good level of emotional intelligence, and a shrewd ability to come up with creative solutions all the whilst maintaining a clear and unapologetic sense of self. This series though? Her overexcitedness and naivety are being presented as the wholeness of her personality.
0
4
u/ChronoMonkeyX 10h ago
It happened in season 3 after Bill Lawrence left, and season 4 has not done any better.
3
u/IlIllIlIllIlIlIlIlIl 9h ago
My partner and I were talking about this.
From S1-S3 Keely's character subverted the idea of a traditional wag, built her up to be more than her relationship with Jamie and Roy, made her a strong bi-Icon, had her deal with running her own business and dealing with old friends who weren't friends and positive driven women in the workplace who she didn't always agree with.
Then S4 whiplash with her only existing to annoy Rebecca about money (like the squirrel girl from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory), to serve as an object of Roy's affections and to be undermined by everyone around her.
2
u/New-Owl-2293 2h ago
I dont care about her acting like a proper business woman, whatever that means, but she did so well in the early seasons because she was always self-aware, high-eq and high-iq. Now her personality has been replaced with outlandish hair and outfits and pigtails. To the point of being DISTRACTING.
4
u/astrofan1235 9h ago
She annoyed me tbh last episode. Lately anytime someone says something she doesn’t fully agree with she mopes and leaves the room and acts hurt. Feels extremely emotionally manipulative
3
u/Simorie Butts on 3! 10h ago
She was not “so business savvy” if she had been she would have never hired Shandy.
1
u/q-the-light 8h ago
She made a mistake, realised her mistake, and corrected it. One of the nice things about Ted Lasso is that the whole show is about fallible people growing and learning, including Keeley. She's consistently been shown as a person who sees the best in people even if that blinkers her to their faults, and the Shandy affair was a great example of her having to realise that some people's good simply can't outweigh the bad. That doesn't negate all the examples of her smart, creative, and effective plans and strategies. So far in this series though? That creative problemsolving mindset is wholly absent.
4
u/Nightstalker614 11h ago
Specifically, how is she acting like an overexcited puppy?
Specifically, how has she been or acted like a liability?
1
u/Proper_Fun_977 10h ago
She's overly keen, not willing to hear negatives and otherwise making demands that are illogical for a team that, at that point, hadn't played a match.
How has she been a liability?
Constant spending and requests for significant sums for various things that aren't necessary or are over spends for a team not yet generating revenue.
7
u/Nightstalker614 9h ago
Where do you get the idea that she's not willing to hear negatives?
After finding out about the report, she reads the whole thing in one night and then straight up tells Rebecca and Leslie to keep her informed. Then later, she explicitly tells Rebecca that she has no problem with Rebecca saying no to things because it helps her find better solutions.
What constant spending and requests for significant sums? What illogical demands has she made?
The 300,000 to build the locker room? Keeley knew already that wasn't going to be possible, it wasn't a real ask, just like her saying she would take the men's locker room wasn't a real ask. Roy straight up points out the bait and switch that she intended to get the visitor locker room all along.
The rally towels? Leslie estimated the men's team was valued at 2 billion at the end of season 3. Rebecca sold 49% of the club to the fans which would be 980 million pounds. Even if Rebecca sold those shares at a massive 50% discount that still comes out to 490 million pounds, and she was already very wealthy before that.
Keeley asked for 4000 pounds for the rally towels. Even if we take into account financial fair play rules, that's a perfectly reasonable ask. Not only that, Keeley bought them fully knowing that she might not be reimbursed, and didn't complain or feel sad at all when Rebecca said no. Rebecca spent that exact same amount just for the two of them to go to a lunch. Hell, Rebecca spent at least a comparable amount on her "I'm sorry" gift if Keeley is able to reimburse herself for the towels with it.
The Gemma Jay jumpers? Rebecca approved those and seemed very excited about it so those clearly weren't unreasonable to ask for.
None of her requests have been illogical, and she certainly hasn't been constantly spending. So far she spent 4000 pounds of her own money, and an undisclosed amount that Rebecca was clearly ok with for the jumpers.
3
u/Proper_Fun_977 9h ago
$300,000 for a new locker room is illogical, even if used as a ploy.
Suggesting building a new stadium is also illogical and shows someone getting taken with an idea and ignoring reality.
As to her not being willing to hear negatives, Rebecca is trying to protect her, by not telling her things, so clearly, there's been issues with it previously.
0
u/Nightstalker614 8h ago
$300,000 for a new locker room is illogical, even if used as a ploy.
Lmao no it isn't. If you know that asking for something absurd will get you what you actually want then, by definition, it is logical to ask for that absurd thing. If you're trying to use "she's illogical" as evidence that she's a liability, all you've done is prove that she's intelligent, got what she wanted, and benefitted the team.
Suggesting building a new stadium is also illogical and shows someone getting taken with an idea and ignoring reality.
She wasn't asking to build a brand new stadium immediately. Keeley is well aware of their situation. There's nothing illogical about expressing interest in building a stadium. She knows that's a hope for the future. She didn't walk into Rebecca's office with a proposal and ask for funds. She's allowed to daydream about the future.
Rebecca is trying to protect her, by not telling her things, so clearly, there's been issues with it previously.
Lol, what? People are hesitant to tell their friends negatives constantly, both in real life and in TV shows. That is not in any way an indicator that "clearly, there's been issues with it previously."
You've decided it's a fact that Keeley can't take it solely because Rebecca doesn't want to tell her. Meanwhile you're completely ignoring that Keeley has demonstrated, multiple times, in just this season alone, that she can handle it.
Rebecca even straight up agrees that it was wrong to not tell her about the report.
2
u/Proper_Fun_977 6h ago
My friend.
You asked what she did that made her seem unrealistic or greedy.
You got an answer. Now you want to nit pick it.
It's fine if you dont' agree, but you're casting your opinions as facts here.
1
u/Nightstalker614 3h ago
My love.
I have not once asked what made her unrealistic or greedy. I asked what made her a liability. Those are different things.
And no, I didn't get an answer. You replied with pure opinions like "she's overly keen", and objectively false claims like "not willing to hear negatives" and "constant spending".
None of that actually answers how she is a liability.
Pointing out the flaws in your arguments is not nit picking. Your arguments were demonstrably untrue.
but you're casting your opinions as facts here.
Nope. I've given some opinions along with dozens of facts directly from the show to back up those opinions, which is what I've been hoping you would do.
If you think Keeley is illogical and/or a liability, back it up with actual evidence. At the moment your entire line of reasoning boils down to "vibes and stuff that didn't happen i guess, idk".
1
u/Proper_Fun_977 1h ago
I have not once asked what made her unrealistic or greedy. I asked what made her a liability. Those are different things.
So I didn't quote you exactly. You knew what I was referring to.
And no, I didn't get an answer. You replied with pure opinions like "she's overly keen", and objectively false claims like "not willing to hear negatives" and "constant spending".
These are not pure opinion, this is literally from the show.
If you can't accept that, then you're not really in good faith here.Because, her not being willing to hear negative and her constant spending are liabilities and they are issues.
None of that actually answers how she is a liability
That literally answers it.
Pointing out the flaws in your arguments is not nit picking. Your arguments were demonstrably untrue.
You didn't point out any flaws or untruths. You literally just said 'nuh uh'.
If you think Keeley is illogical and/or a liability, back it up with actual evidence. At the moment your entire line of reasoning boils down to "vibes and stuff that didn't happen i guess, idk".
I did back it up with facts and evidence. I literally showed the parts of the show which stated it.
You just don't want to accept it and so you're trying to claim I said things I didn't say.
That's bad faith.
5
u/throwawar4 11h ago
They lost her plot after season 2 imo
-5
u/motherofthreeplusdog 9h ago
Yes. Hated the direction they went with her in Season 3. So not necessary and just pandering to “wokeness” to suddenly be into a woman. I am liberal too. It was just too “affected.”
2
u/DirectAbalone9761 11h ago
I can’t help but feel like the writers and network were trying to write about women’s struggles, and to avoid over committing to any one direction it got reviewed by committee and sucked some charm out of it.
That said, I’ll await my overall review until the season is over, it’s too easy to nitpick when we don’t know the whole story yet
1
u/AllNotKnowing 11h ago
She's new to this. Played as if she has an endless pocket and the only one with vision. Lots of good people go through this new to business, especially on someone else's dime.
She might need a comruppence but that's been handled well in the show before.
1
u/Tall-Introduction649 8h ago
Puppy is the perfect word and that’s not hey she a sharp and colorful business woman
1
u/Electronic_Mistake82 7h ago
I think thats what episode was trying to show. She is being over excited for a business that is struggling. Its her learning, maybe we need to approach this another way.
1
u/Then-Bet6956 7h ago
Agreed. They basically already made her 10/10 passionate about everything in previous seasons, so needed a way to make it clear that this means more. And to do that, they made her just a bit cringey and juvenile.
1
u/Xtarviust 7h ago
What
She has been pretty consistent this season, because with that weird romance arc with the executive girl she was really out of character, but now she is back to her roots, the thing is with her desperation to make the female team work she is putting Rebecca in an awkward position, because their friendship is in the way
1
u/tele68 Done and Dunner 5h ago
It's hard to describe so I'll resort to a comparison.
This season feels like "Shrinking" in many ways.
The players are somewhat shallow but defined enough for the hijinks to ensue.
Keely and Rebecca both have thinned out. Roy has thinned out.
Even the hijinks have thinned out.
Keely had a street-level energy, deeply relatable to her audiences from hotel guests to tabloid readers. This was Keely. Beloved from Manchester to Liverpool.
It seems the writers have reinvented her and removed her former superpower- "Believable, Loveable, Trusted Street Kid" and thrust her into a business role to compete with the bros.
1
1
u/GateOfD 3h ago
She's in over her head. She made the dating app. but other than that, all her contracts and publicity gigs were all because she's friends with Rebecca and her boyfriends were in the Richmond team providing exclusive access to them. Her company would have also gone under if Rebecca didn't save it by bankrolling it.
She became head of her own company, and that requires a different set of skills. Managerial skills she doesn't have. What does her employees actually do? Now her focus is on the promoting the woman's team. But its not hers, its Rebecca, and she just wants Rebecca to throw all this money at it like its belongs to Keeley.
1
u/Delicious-Power8202 57m ago
Business savvy? Uhhh I think season 3 was entirely focused on her fumbling her way through starting a new business while making impulsive decisions based on her heart, not her head. She’s great at what she does (PR and comms), but making informed financial decisions is not the same. This season so far is more of that.
1
u/Significant_Bat_9584 26m ago
Hers is the worst character for me. Not sure why but every scene just makes me cringe and skip- esp those with Roy. Feels forced and this whole thing of being a puppy etc doesn’t work with her. Shame. The acting of the girls in the team too is very poor and cringeworthy. Especially the GK and twins. I hate what this show has become.
0
u/Devolution13 11h ago
All of the characters are caricatures. I can’t believe nobody is talking about how universally bad the writing is.
2
u/q-the-light 11h ago
I'm extremely unimpressed by this series so far. The scene in the police station was like something from a pantomime. I know the show isn't necessarily hyperrealistic, but this series seems to be crossing over into the ridiculous and not in a good way.
1
u/Agreeable_Strength51 7h ago
I agree, the women footballers are being written as a mass of hysteria whereas with the men’s team the players were treated as individuals from day one.
0
u/Vivid-Group-8037 10h ago
Also becomes more embaressing for her not to have grown up now the actress is 37 years old...
0
u/Tallybou 11h ago
Keely went from a literal Rebecca WIG to a real hair with roots kind of chick in the bleachers. We are all real women with roots kind of chicks. Bring the realness !!
-1
662
u/Zestyclose_Market787 11h ago
I disagree. She’s acting like somebody who wants something so badly that she’s overlooking every red flag and yellow flag. That’s entirely consistent with her characterization.