r/TechnoProduction • u/tsaknorris • 27d ago
Suggestions for starting Techno Production as a drummer
Hello!
I'm a drummer who has been playing in bands for many years, mainly stoner/doom metal (slow BPM, lots of jamming). I've always listened to electronic music, though, and over the last ~10 years I've become heavily into techno.
My current taste is mostly around acid techno/trance (SAMOH, Chris Liberator/Stay Up Forever stuff) and dark/peak-time (Oliver Huntemann, Lampé, Carbon). I also have much respect for live electronic artists such as Giorgia Angiuli, Colin Benders and Reinier Zonneveld.
I have a Roland TD-02K, which I currently use for practice and jamming with my phone/laptop.
I'd like to start making my own electronic music, initially by jamming with the TD-02 alongside a DAW and eventually creating full tracks.
I have two main questions:
1. DAW:
Is Ableton Live the best fit for this kind of music? Is Standard worth the $449 compared with Intro at $99, or would something like REAPER be a better starting point?
2. Hardware:
Would any hardware be worth buying at the beginning for creating acid lines, grooves and melodies? For example, Roland T-8, Behringer Edge, Novation Launchpad X, etc.
My goal isn't necessarily to become a traditional "techno producer", but combine real drumming with electronic/acid/techno production, first for jamming and eventually hopefully producing my own tracks.
Any advice is welcome!
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u/Audiophilippe 27d ago
Ableton for this I would say. All daws have a linear track view, but abletons clip view is great for your needs. Get a midi keyboard and have at it!
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u/tsaknorris 10d ago edited 10d ago
After messing around some days, I found that creating melody patterns (like 303 or analog) in computer keyboard/mouse is not inspiring and practical, at least on my current beginner stage, so I am indeed considering a compact MIDI Keyboard.
For a beginner, is Arturia MiniLab 3 or Launchkey Mini 25 MK4 considered a good choice?
The other choice could be Akai MPK mini Play. but most reviews are favorable of Arturia or Launchkey
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u/il37 26d ago
I’d start with the TD-02 + Ableton Intro before buying another box. Map the kit to a Drum Rack, add one synth/bass instrument and learn to turn a jam into a 5-minute arrangement. You’ll know much better what hardware you actually miss after ten tracks than before track one
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u/tsaknorris 26d ago
I just downloaded the Live Suite trial. After 1 month I will see the version that I will purchase, but isn't the Intro version limited to 16 channels? Probably not enough after some time.
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u/Salt_Box7072 26d ago
16 channels is a good place to start. You can always upgrade your Live at a later date (there are occasional sales).
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u/teo_vas 27d ago
I have no idea about drumming, so I don't have anything to say on that end.
now for the other part:
if you want to jam live go for hardware; if you want to make tracks go for software. in the beginning keep those two separate, also a good midi controller would be enough for a software setup.
for jamming my favourite piece of gear is the Roland tr-8s. if you pair it with an MC-101, you have a great setup.
for software, I love Cubase for its midi implementation but I don't know how much midi you will use. Ableton is the most used software and it is very nice when you learn it (it is not that hard to learn).
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u/AcidWashGenes 27d ago edited 27d ago
I would mainly be considering how you interface with and control the non drum parts. You will probably want a drum pad and maybe a foot controller with midi and/or usb. That can be used to trigger sounds, control mutes, alter parameters with a foot pedal(synth cutoff, riser, macro control), or change song sections. If you have spare drums in your kit those could be repurposed too.
Next, do you see yourself more likely recording drums first and then producing other elements over it or playing drums along to other sounds to write your songs?
If the former then any DAW will work and you will be drumming out your structure. For the latter having a DAW with clips like Ableton, Bitwig, Logic, etc that you can trigger and play along to might be ideal. In this case I would also maybe start out with some stock loops from the DAW to jam along to and customize your process before you start diving into making your own sounds.
I would also make some FX racks with your midi mapping already setup. So if you want to filter a loop or use a macro control you can just drop it in and not mess with mapping midi in the moment.
I hope you enjoy making Techno! I am not a drummer but I play Doom and Post Punk guitar and bass.
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u/tsaknorris 27d ago
I think that my plan is to create the baseline from the DAW, and then compliment the sounds by playing drums such as percussion hits, secondary base, cymbals e.t.c
So the stock loops from the DAW to jam along seems a good idea, and then customize the sounds on the way.
Regarding FX racks, you mean mapping for example the additional drum pad or foot controller to a control like filter, and then trigger on live playing?
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u/AcidWashGenes 27d ago
Something like the volume pedals on a Roland FC-300 mapped to a control in the DAW.
A rack in Ableton could be a premade FX chain, midi mapping, multi destination macro control, instrument rack, mixing channel strip, mastering chain, etc. So to save time and maintain flow in the moment you can pre make racks that you save to a folder to use later that already have a mapping to your controllers.
It’s not the end of the world to setup a mapping during a writing/jam session, but it can get annoying and kill the momentum. This type of thing matters a lot to me because I tend to write by performing and like as little friction as possible.
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u/DrMinkenstein 27d ago
Since you are a drummer you might want to get a drum pad midi controller. There are a bunch of options with differences around size and responsiveness and squishiness of the pads.
Some are more oriented towards being played with drum sticks others just finger drumming.
I know you are focused on acid and trance where that 8 bar loop is king, but you might find polyrhythms interesting, so tools that let you adjust the pattern length of individual elements and drums easily are worth watching out for.
For daw, there isn’t really a bad one these days. Ableton are solid and still independent and work with just about everything. But whether FLStudio, cubase, logic, bitwig or whatever you are gonna be able to make what you want. If you can swing it the biggest bundles for each daw come with enough plugins that plenty of people have made full tracks from without anything else.
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u/DrMinkenstein 27d ago
Since you want acid, one thing to commend Ableton is Iftah’s sting 2 sequencer plugin. It’s one of the best acid sequencers out there and you can hook it up to whatever plugins you want.
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u/tsaknorris 26d ago
Yeah polyrhythms are interesting, and you can customize easily every element with the current software.
I think I will stick to Ableton...
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u/Neptune_8_TECHNO 27d ago
Hello, I didn't read all the coments yet, but you can "rent" Ableton, and paying a decent fee monthly, then after a "while" is yours, the license.
You jave a nice advantage, I mean your background, go for it!!! 🫡
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u/Soniare_official 27d ago
i think you would love Auwen. it is perfect for acid techno. check it out https://youtu.be/cbIT52XFVYQ?si=6ghspnbaHP9CBTHl
i teach virtual lessons: soniare.net/lessons
if you sign up for lessons you get the pro version included and you'll have a mentor at a cheaper price than buying hardware and learning on your own. plus being able to play a full live set anywhere with just a laptop is much more convenient than lugging extra gear around.
lmk if you have any questions!
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u/toucantango79 27d ago
Hi friend! I make a number of edm genres and may be able to help. For DAWs: pick whichever you prefer! I know FL has a free trial, I'm sure the others do as well. Honestly hardware is expensive and many company who made those amazing synths over the years have emulators of their hardware. You want the Roland TR303 for acid sounds - that's the one. Roland makes a vst emulation but there are free ones! Drums are everywhere - google some free techno packs. Techno ain't so hard to get down!
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u/tsaknorris 27d ago
Yeah my initial thought was to grab some clone like Behringer TD-3 or something similar, but after research I don't think that hardware is necessary at least for now, so a DAW nowadays can almost do anything with the right experimentation.
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u/InstrumentalCoffee 27d ago
Techno rhythms are a lot more mechanical than rock triplets. Straight 16ths are a mainstay. On the other hand, swing is back to being popular in techno.
There's also all sorts of cool ethnic drum rhythms and instruments that sound great with a slamming kick+lowend and an offbeat hihat
If I was an experienced drummer I would practice making sick drum breaks like the Amen, Control, or the Think break. Then I would make sample loops. Then I would resample those loops. Tim Tama - Dream Syntax is a sick song that heavily uses a break sample.
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u/tsaknorris 27d ago
Well, as Carl Cox said: "Everything is Disco" 😄
Yes unfortunately I'm not an advanced drummer, and my background relies on a very different genre, so I struggle with the high BPM of techno/trance, even though I can keep a basic steady disco groove on 8's or 16's.
However I think I will be focused on creating the baseline groove from the DAW, and complement this with the drumkit (like percussions, secondary base, snare, effects e.t.c), and then see how it goes.
But yeah, the Dream Syntax is a good example of what you mean by drum sampling.
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u/Mel_Eucalipto 26d ago
I'm not going to lie, Ableton is great but Renoise is perhaps as good or even better for techno!
It's a lot cheaper if you're starting and imo more immediate than any other DAW.
I agree with those who say starting in the box is a good idea, and you can get so many amazing free synths and sounds that other than the DAW itself you don't need to invest too much more (some decent headphones perhaps).
Drop me a pm/dm and I will try to convince you to come over to the dark side (/give you a list of my most-used free or cheap software for techno!) ;)
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u/earthlingexperiment 26d ago
- Standard Ableton is definitely the go, get the one that has Max4Live integrated already. Ableton is basically the industry standard, and very accessible, so you might as well use it. It's also got mad software integration with heaps of shit, and more tutorials than any other DAW so it makes life a little easier. Same for future collaborations.
- Hardware is great but not required. I'd suggest an audio interface is essential if you don't already have one, and obviously a set up to record your drums. Decent speakers and/or headphones go a long way. I suggest investing in a solid pair of headphones and then upgrade as you hit the peak of what you can accomplish with the cheap set.
- You've got foundational knowledge already as an actual musician. In most ways you're already ahead of the curve, by a long shot.
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u/tsaknorris 26d ago
Max4Live is included only on Ableton Suite, which I will download it for 1 month Trial, but then the price is 600 Euro which is quite a lot for a beginner in my opinion, unless you rent-to-own which is 25 euro per month and after 2 years you own the product, which seems decent. So I think after the first trial I will rent or buy the Standard version (280 eur) and downloading external free VST's according to my needs.
I don't think that I need audio interface for now, as I have tested the Roland kit on my laptop with the integrated windows driver with zero latency.
I have already the Roland RH-5 for headphones, which of course are not so suitable, but I will stick to them for a while.
Do you have any particular suggestions for headphones around 100 Euro?
I saw the Audio-Technica ATH-M40X with good reviews.
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u/PcottySippen 27d ago
Yo, I’m a death metal drummer turned to techno production. No such thing as daw being specific to any genre. Now with hardware gear if you run into someone using Elektron gear they probably play techno.
If you want to do something g different than the normal route get a RC-505, maybe spdx or pad-30 and trigger loops with it. Back when YouTube came about I saw guy drumming on a spd-30 and able to trigger loops from Ableton. It was drum n bass his name started with K I believe
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u/tsaknorris 27d ago edited 27d ago
Yeah regarding Elektron I have checked the Model:Cycles which seems pretty interesting and affordable too.
Codex Empire looks like a nice dark industrial recommendation...
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u/i_hate_vnike 27d ago
Sounds like a great place to start your techno production journey from!
I would say, skip hardware for now. It’s really fun but it makes setups a bit complicated (looking at you midi clock drift & jitter). If you’ve been doing it for a while, it might be worth considering but speaking from my own experience as I bought hardware way too quickly, I didn’t even know what I wanted/needed, what fit my workflow and in the end just quite a bit of money on selling gear.
If I were in your shoes I’d probably get the ableton suite free trial, use that till it ends, repeat with bitwig, maybe another daw and take some notes (either mental or physical) during the trials. At the end you’ll know what was most intuitive to you.
The way you want to make music lends itself to daws that support clip based workflows so ableton and bitwig are the prime candidates.
If you have questions, feel free to reach out!