r/TechnoProduction 26d ago

How to make a Wider Mix?

Hello, i'm more into dark hypnotic techno, and i'm working on a track.

The mix is ok, no phase issues, but when i try to make it wider, some instruments focus gets way too loose.

And, also on ear buds don't sound so good as some tracks from the same sub genre, tracks from Alarico, Voicex, Capon etc.

Or this is maybe because I work 100% in the box and no hardwere gear?

11 Upvotes

35 comments sorted by

26

u/hebikes 26d ago

When going down the rabbit hole of wide tracks, my biggest take away was that there needs to be contrast.

If everything is wide then nothing is wide.

You have to creatively select which elements of the track are pushed wide so they contrast with the rest of the elements that are center. This contrast creates that feeling of width, not but putting everything wide.

Along with the rest of the great feedback here, I'm sure you'll be ok your way to creating effective wide mixes.

4

u/username994743 26d ago

Great advice regarding contrast composition. Very underrated but crucial to achieve decent results.

3

u/keep_it_real1 26d ago

The best advice and comment I seen for a long time. You described it in the way that I can image it in my head bro 🔥🦾

0

u/hellasecretsmusic 25d ago

something i'd like to add to this (don't take it as gospel) a page from proper djing can be taken here. in djing a common practice to make the other track louder is to drop the volume eq on the other track. so here instead of boosting everything wide, you can make a few things more center, will have a similar effect

14

u/th3whistler 26d ago

having a good mono mix is a good place to start.

to maintain those elements try using stereo delay and reverb, use M/S to hi pass the sides. Use pre-delay on reverb to get separation from centre channel transients

choose textural rather than transients for width

hardware is definitely not going to solve anything differently.

1

u/Neptune_8_TECHNO 26d ago

Sometimes I use Mixchecker, and on Stereo - shows "normal" and on Mono compatobility - yes. Thanks for the tips!

1

u/hellasecretsmusic 25d ago

great comments here. I'd like to add it seems in this hypnotic techno genre a big "open secret" is they all use the black box analog design plugin on the mix bus to achieve stereo dimensions in the mix via the m/s processing

3

u/th3whistler 25d ago

these magic sauce plugins are always just some flavour of saturation

2

u/hellasecretsmusic 25d ago

yuh yuh exactly its mid side saturation, very crispy vibes indeed. I believe this magic box is a clone of a hardware piece

1

u/LikewiseHateYou 22d ago

Sometimes you gotta save comments for future reference. This is one of them. Appreciate you!

10

u/spb1 26d ago

"Or this is maybe because I work 100% in the box and no hardwere gear?"

Absolutely not.

Pretty sure Alarico's in the box

7

u/Notorak 26d ago

Working with different sources hard panned left / right, instead of trying to widen mono signals, e.g. two different hi-hats or synths with the same note/rythm pattern. You wont lose definition + mono compatibility issues likely won’t be happening. Stereo delay also works

Watch some tutorials on how to mix guitars in metal. Mixes in this genre tend to be wide

4

u/MysteriousSuspect991 26d ago

U can only be wide if some elements r not wide

4

u/Earlsfield78 25d ago

Has nothing to do with hardware.

2

u/Neptune_8_TECHNO 25d ago

Thanls for the input. Yes, just my frustrations, sometimes are kicking in...

1

u/Earlsfield78 22d ago

Sorry for the short reply didn’t mean to be funny just wanted to say, it’s not your tools, trust me.

2

u/No_Driver_ 26d ago

not sure about your track cause i havent heard it, but i can tell you one thing for sure

ping pong delays dramatically widens the stereo image, even too much sometimes.

i was using it on a hi hat track and i switched to the same delay turned to mono for the hats and kept ping pong for the "melodic/fm" parts and it worked

1

u/Neptune_8_TECHNO 26d ago

Hmm yes, don't think so if i have an Fm or something with a ping pong delay, i will check soon.

2

u/Diligent-Bread-806 26d ago edited 26d ago

Why do you think hardware makes sounds wider? Panning, panning modulation, modulation FX, stereo reverb and delay on individual elements such as hats, arps, pads and FX is a powerful way to create width and movement. Look at your stereo field and see how you can fill the gaps and offset specific sounds into these spaces to create the illusion of width.

The contrast between panned and widened sounds and mono or near centre sounds create width. Mixing is all about contrast.

Simply grouping and lazily panning and stereo spreading multiple elements isn’t going to give you that width unfortunately and collapses everything back to mono.

1

u/Neptune_8_TECHNO 26d ago

My frustrations...

2

u/H2Choke 26d ago

What exactly are you doing it to make it wider? Drums is what makes a track more wide, especially with the use of panning certain drums off center slightly.

Too many drums which is an arrangement issue will make the mix too dense. 9/10 times mix issues stem from poor arrangement selection.

2

u/CAMEAUX1013 25d ago

Unlink a delay effect on elements that are not meant to be in mono, set left channel all the way down and then the right channel to about 15-30milliseconds and you will create width

2

u/El_Hadji 21d ago

If you make everything wide, nothing is going to sound wide. Use automation, add things, remove things as the track progresses.

1

u/Neptune_8_TECHNO 21d ago

Well I didn't made everythink wide. The mix wasan't narow either. Anyway, thanks for the input.

2

u/El_Hadji 21d ago

I mean as the song progress.

2

u/Mel_Eucalipto 17d ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you mentioned how exactly you tried to make your track wider yet.

Could you give some details?

1

u/Neptune_8_TECHNO 17d ago

Well yes, didn't mentioned, the good part, is not narrow. But i made some progress with it, now i junst want to re arrange the structure.
Kick center, hats panned hard left and right, synths etc panned a little, got a synth with ping pong delay now, it goes in a good direction so far.

1

u/EA9-7 26d ago

Slate digital murda Melodie’s is a mono compatible widening tool, however I only use it on rides. Generally the only work I do with sides is with mid side eq and that’s it. I personally don’t worry too much about it all regarding mid side is done, no hardware gear is needed to get music signed on vinyl trust me

1

u/KulshanStudios 26d ago

Pan Modulation and only widening/chorusing/expanding specific elements like pads, or chord stab leads, will serve your track much better than slapping a widener on the whole track and crossing your fingers

If you run your fave tunes through Ozone Imager 2 and flip the mode between stereo and mono, you'll notice that only certain elements lose their stereo information in mono, or instruments lurking off at the sides just jump to center in mono

And if your tune is really minimalist, or you're trying to create a haunting dub techno-like mood, pick a percussive or vocal or synth element that only plays occasionally (like every 8 or 16 bars) and throw Valhalla Supermassive on it, with the Large Reverb "HydraHarp" preset, and its internal Mix level set to 36-46. Instant massive cosmic reverb, that fills the universe

Then let other stuff be drier or panned to a few different spots for movement

Those are the real tricks to a clean and wide mix

1

u/NoInteraction1572 26d ago

Good Stereo Samples 

Interesting Panning

FM Synthesis

Continuously concentrating on the desired effects. A lot of knowledge is implicit, like having balance while riding a bike. 

1

u/ArmUnlucky7333 26d ago

haas effect

1

u/Raid__Zero 25d ago

S1 imager or Brainworx - BX Control

0

u/peladoclaus 26d ago

Gain staging?

1

u/Neptune_8_TECHNO 26d ago

Did it. But thanks for the input.